Aviva Semi 1: Northampton Saints v Saracens, 23 May

                    
Northampton Saints v Saracens
Saturday 23 May 2015
KO: 14:00
Franklin's Gardens

Live on BT Sport

Referee: Greg Garner (82nd Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce and Matthew Carley.
TMO: Sean Davey.

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

46 Played 46
20 Wins 26
26 Losses 20
0 Draws 0
106 Tries 91
75 Conversions 62
115 Penalties 141
8 Drop Goals 15
1,049 Points 1,038
25 Avg. Age 28

B. Head to Head - This Season

Sun 23rd Nov 14 - Saracens 24 - 31 Northampton Saints

Sat 25th Apr 15 - Northampton Saints 25 - 20 Saracens

C. Run-In

Northampton Saints

16/05/15 Tigers 22 - 14 Saints

09/05/15 Saints 46 - 0 L Welsh

25/04/15 Saints 25 - 20 Saracens

Saracens

16/05/15 L Welsh 17 - 68 Saracens

10/05/15 Saracens 20 - 24 Chiefs

25/04/15 Saints 25 - 20

D. Teams

Northampton Saints

15 Ahsee TUALA
14 Ken PISI
13 George PISI
12 Luther BURRELL
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Stephen MYLER
09 Lee DICKSON

01 Alex CORBISIERO
02 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
03 Salesi MA’AFU
04 Courtney LAWES
05 Christian DAY
06 Tom WOOD
07 Calum CLARK
08 Samu MANOA

16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Gareth DENMAN
19 Sam DICKINSON
20 Jon FISHER
21 Kahn FOTUALI’I
22 Tom STEPHENSON
23 James WILSON

Saracens

15 Alex Goode
14 Chris Wyles
13 Duncan Taylor
12 Brad Barritt
11 David Strettle
10 Owen Farrell
09 Richard Wigglesworth

01 Mako Vunipola
02 Jamie George
03 Petrus Du Plessis
04 George Kruis
05 Alistair Hargreaves (capt)
06 Maro Itoje
07 Jacques Burger
08 Billy Vunipola

16 Schalk Brits
17 Richard Barrington
18 Juan Figallo
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Jackson Wray
21 Neil de Kock
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 Chris Ashton

I was actually really hoping that Saints and Sarries fans on these boards could give me some insight in terms of how well their respective teams are playing at present.

I haven't been following the Jeff as much this season and would appreciate the update.

I can give you thoughts on both teams if you'd like.

Saints

Started the season really well - racing out of the blocks. Most notable early win was vs Tigers when Saints were down to 14 men for most of the match. At this time their strength in depth looked great.

Mid season - bit rocky - getting thumped by Racing Metro at FG, then a bit of patchy form during the 6 nations but the results still seemed to go the way of Saints, got thumped by an imperious Clermont performance but since then have been comfortable enough at the top.

Their breathing space at the top allowed Saints to rest players vs Leicester.

They beat Saracens at MK in their recent encounter - Saints looked fresher and piled on the pressure in the 2nd half which led them to the win.

Saints have been comfortably at the top of the AP but did not fare well when they faced two of the big spenders of France.

In comparison Saracens just squeaked into the playoffs. The way to describe the recent games of Saracens has been a slog - Racing Metro,Leicester,Clermont,Saints and Exeter - all in consecutive games is going to have an effect on your fitness and squad.

The last 3 of those have been losses albeit close ones which all could have been wins if player X had done something. E.g. Jacques Burger had an opportunity but knocked on vs Clermont, Billy had an opportunity vs Saints in the first half but dropped the ball on the line, Ashton vs Exeter etc.

Saracens haven't hit top gear too much this season but when they have they've been strong. Notable wins vs Munster and Clermont at Allianz Park.

Saracens in contrast to Saints - fronted up well vs the big French sides - beating Racing Metro in Paris and running Clermont close at St Etienne.

In terms of head to head of these two sides - Saints had certainly had the upperhand in the last two seasons or so. Saints did the double over Saracens this season and won the AP final last season.

Saints will be the favourites and rightly so but Saracens are a dangerous side.

To quite a large extent Saracens have relied too heavily on Billy Vunipola who had a excellent 6 nations. His injury vs Saints and absence vs Exeter did seem quite decisive IMO.

With a fully fit Billy, Saracens have a fighting chance.

Brilliant, Beshocked.

I suspect this one will be close, and we could quite easily look at the losing team and find things they faile dto do that would have won them the game.

Referee will be hugely important in this game.

Thank you George Carlin.


Londontiger As long as the ref is not JP Doyle I'll be happy.

Hopefully it's Wayne Barnes.


Also I hope Brad Barritt is back - his defensive organisation will be important.

Strangely, I think Saints will feel more comfortable facing Saracens than they would if Tigers had finished 4th. Mallinder put out a weakened side v Tigers at the weekend, stating that he had one eye on a home semi - I believe him, a cynic could easily accuse him of chucking the match in order to definitely avoid a confrontation with Tigers. I'll leave it to the conspiracy theorists to decide that one.

I think Saints will win, but Saracens' clinical edge could tell. Thingis, they haven't been so clinical of late, which is why I think they'll lose by 3 - 5 points.

Jimpy I don't think Saints are scared of Tigers. Saints just did the sensible thing - rest players before the playoffs.

Disagree - Saracens have more firepower in their backline than Tigers. IMO Tigers have a competitive pack but not much behind it as shown when Saracens beat Tigers.

Still Tigers will be dangerous because of their pack. It's what has dragged Tigers into the playoffs and sheer bloody mindedness.

I agree with your last sentence though about Saracens not being clinical and of course Saints are favourites.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy  I don't think Saints are scared of Tigers. Saints just did the sensible thing - rest players before the playoffs.

Disagree - Saracens have more firepower in their backline than Tigers. IMO Tigers have a competitive pack but not much behind it as shown when Saracens beat Tigers.

Still Tigers will be dangerous because of their pack. It's what has dragged Tigers into the playoffs and sheer bloody mindedness.

I agree with your last sentence though about Saracens not being clinical and of course Saints are favourites.

Its not that Tigers are so much better than Saints because they aren't - but if you look at the head to head between the two sides, Tigers have the measure of Saints, even at FG.

Sarries are a better team than Leicester, as are Northampton.

Personally I think Northampton are a better team than Sarries, but I woudl rather face the Saints. This is because whenever we meet it is more than just a game, it is a long rivalry where for the large part Northampton have been the junior cousins. Even when we are not playing well, matches with Northampton end up far closer than they should be.

so for all this I have to agree and suggest that Saints will be more comfortable playing Sarries. They know they are an outstanding side, but equally they know that there will be no other subtext other than a desire to make the AP final.

LondonTiger wrote:Sarries are a better team than Leicester, as are Northampton.

Personally I think Northampton are a better team than Sarries, but I woudl rather face the Saints. This is because whenever we meet it is more than just a game, it is a long rivalry where for the large part Northampton have been the junior cousins. Even when we are not playing well, matches with Northampton end up far closer than they should be.

so for all this I have to agree and suggest that Saints will be more comfortable playing Sarries. They know they are an outstanding side, but equally they know that there will be no other subtext other than a desire to make the AP final.

Well that's not according to the league table - although having watched Tigers mess about all season, it baffles me how Tigers, Saracens and Exeter all finished up on the same points. I mean, Tigers were simply awful for most of the year.

The rest of it is spot on. Saints are (on paper) a better team than Tigers - but I'd absolutely guarantee anybody, Mallinder would rather face off against Sarries than Tigers.

Jimpy wrote:Strangely, I think Saints will feel more comfortable facing Saracens than they would if Tigers had finished 4th. Mallinder put out a weakened side v Tigers at the weekend, stating that he had one eye on a home semi - I believe him, a cynic could easily accuse him of chucking the match in order to definitely avoid a confrontation with Tigers. I'll leave it to the conspiracy theorists to decide that one.

I think Saints will win, but Saracens' clinical edge could tell. Thingis, they haven't been so clinical of late, which is why I think they'll lose by 3 - 5 points.

Right now, I don't think Saints care whom they play. It's the playoffs and they have been aware that to win the Premiership title that they will have to play any two of Bath, Leicester, and Saracens (or maybe Exeter). I don't think they care who they play. As I don't think Bath, Leicester, or Saracens care either, This is pro sport - they are in the playoffs and have to beat the best to win.

Any side in Saints position would have rested players for the playoffs. To me, the notion of chucking the match to avoid Leicester simply does not add up. Besides we all know they need the rest. Probably the best thing for the team.

Jimpy well actually Exeter,Saracens and Leicester are all on equal points so technically all are equal.

The difference is that Saracens made the ERCC semi finals.

you had no ERCC matches to focus on because you went out so early- allowed you to focus more effort on the AP. As I have said before - it doesn't help when you have 5 tough consecutive games in a row - no rest periods.

It's why it's tough to fight on 3 fronts as both Saints and Saracens have found to their cost.

Doctor grey surely Saints have had plenty of rest periods in recent weeks?


Saracens performed much better against both Racing Metro and Clermont than Saints did this season.

Won't have any bearing on this match but it showed that against the same opposition one team fronted up whilst the other was dismantled.

If Saracens can front up against those two tough French sides then surely they should be able to front up vs Saints. The recent head to head has not been good but eventually the pendulum will swing back in Saracens favour. I am sure of it.

Saracens have been written off. I am pleased.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy well actually Exeter,Saracens and Leicester are all on equal points so technically all are equal.

The difference is that Saracens made the ERCC semi finals.

you had no ERCC matches to focus on because you went out so early- allowed you to focus more effort on the AP. As I have said before - it doesn't help when you have 5 tough consecutive games in a row - no rest periods.

It's why it's tough to fight on 3 fronts as both Saints and Saracens have found to their cost.

Doctor grey surely Saints have had plenty of rest periods in recent weeks?


Saracens performed much better against both Racing Metro and Clermont than Saints did this season.

Won't have any bearing on this match but it showed that against the same opposition one team fronted up whilst the other was dismantled.

If Saracens can front up against those two tough French sides then surely they should be able to front up vs Saints. The recent head to head has not been good but eventually the pendulum will swing back in Saracens favour. I am sure of it.

Saracens have been written off. I am pleased.

But some are more equal than others.... hence the league positions....

Most Leicester fans are mystified at 3rd place. In fact, if you consider that Tigers were only beating Glaws away and LI at home from topping the table - all I can say is the quality of the League must be going downhill fast.....

Lies, damned lies and stats eh? If the league was based on points difference rather than wins initially, different again. it isn't and everyone knew at the start of the season etc etc but worth bearing in mind those teams are close.

beshocked wrote:Saracens have been written off. I am pleased.

Yawn. Making things up, again.

Jimpy 3rd or 4th - they are the same when it comes to the playoffs - an away semi. Saints or Bath away - doesn't matter.

As I said it helps when you've got no European knock out stage to worry about!

You've fallen far when you're boasting about coming 3rd.

You were fortunate that Saints basically threw away the game against you too.

If you beat Bath away then you can start puffing out your chest.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy 3rd or 4th - they are the same when it comes to the playoffs - an away semi. Saints or Bath away - doesn't matter.

As I said it helps when you've got no European knock out  stage to worry about!

You've fallen far when you're boasting about coming 3rd.

You were fortunate that Saints basically threw away the game against you too.

If you beat Bath away then you can start puffing out your chest.

It does, because Tigers would probably beat Saints, but they will probably lose to Bath.

Was I boasting?

"although having watched Tigers mess about all season, it baffles me how Tigers, Saracens and Exeter all finished up on the same points. I mean, Tigers were simply awful for most of the year"

"Most Leicester fans are mystified at 3rd place."

No I most certainly was not. What I actually said was that I and most Tigers supporters are genuinely amazed that given how the team has played, they've managed to achieve a 3rd place finish. Losing to Bath in a semi-final would not be the end of the world either (I said that too).

You could argue that by their own high standards, they have fallen. Not long a go, a home semi-final was almost a given. But to have 'fallen' so far and still to have finished 3rd? Like I said, most of us would take that - over shall we say.....4th....

beshocked wrote:Jimpy well actually Exeter,Saracens and Leicester are all on equal points so technically all are equal.

The difference is that Saracens made the ERCC semi finals.

you had no ERCC matches to focus on because you went out so early- allowed you to focus more effort on the AP. As I have said before - it doesn't help when you have 5 tough consecutive games in a row - no rest periods.

It's why it's tough to fight on 3 fronts as both Saints and Saracens have found to their cost.

Doctor grey surely Saints have had plenty of rest periods in recent weeks?


Saracens performed much better against both Racing Metro and Clermont than Saints did this season.

Won't have any bearing on this match but it showed that against the same opposition one team fronted up whilst the other was dismantled.

If Saracens can front up against those two tough French sides then surely they should be able to front up vs Saints. The recent head to head has not been good but eventually the pendulum will swing back in Saracens favour. I am sure of it.

Saracens have been written off. I am pleased.

Mate, no one has written off any team in the playoffs. We each simply have our best guesses who might have an edge. Both matches will be tough affairs.

Do I think Saints had enough rest before this past weekend? Absolutely not. This was a team which appeared in a serious downward spiral starting in December. There is almost never enough rest at the back end of the season, considering how beat up all Rugby players are by now (the off season is too short for true recovery). And Saints were in trouble by mid-season and hanging on for quite a while. And they now have two of their most dynamic attacking players out.

The other point about resting players is that it would have been grossly irresponsible to risk injury in a game which had no meaning to Saints. Especially considering the context of a team which appeared to be in trouble. They won the league by week 21. They earned the right to rest players in week 22.

Sarries indeed did go through a brutal stretch of games. If they go ahead and win the league, it would a hack of a triumph. It would also show how difficult it is to win the league.

Doctor grey I don't disagree. Saracens did the same thing vs Tigers last season - rested their first team.

As for the edge - home team have got it, more than that it's hard to say.

Jimpy probably beat Saints? Disagree. Based on what exactly? Labouring to a win at home vs a weakened Saints who were focussed on this playoff game?

4th or 1st, 2nd or 3rd - it doesn't matter where you finish in the playoffs as long as you win the playoffs.

The only difference is if you are home or away. Personally I don't care who Saracens face. It's not as if any of these sides are unbeatable.

The losses to Exeter and Saints will be insignificant if Saracens triumph over Saints this time round.

Big ask of course but have to have the belief.

beshocked wrote:Doctor grey I don't disagree. Saracens did the same thing vs Tigers last season - rested their first team.

As for the edge - home team have got it, more than that it's hard to say.

Jimpy probably beat Saints? Disagree. Based on what exactly? Labouring to a win at home vs a weakened Saints who were focussed on this playoff game?

4th or 1st, 2nd or 3rd - it doesn't matter where you finish in the playoffs as long as you win the playoffs.

The only difference is if you are home or away. Personally I don't care who Saracens face. It's not as if any of these sides are unbeatable.

The losses to Exeter and Saints will be insignificant if Saracens triumph over Saints this time round.

Big ask of course but have to have the belief.

No, based on the recent head to heads, although Tigers haven't had it all their own way, a trip to FG holds no fear for them. You could also argue that if Tigers struggled on Saturday, they've also somehow managed to finish 3rd. Remarkable really - and as we all know, anything can happen in the play-offs. I would be much more confident of a Tigers win at FG than the Rec, that's for sure.

FWIT, I think it will be a Saints v Bath final. And given the final league standings, that's only fair really.

Current odds on winning the whole thing:

Saints 13/8
Bath 9/4
Saracens 19/5
Leicester 8/1


Bath meanwhile are favourites to make the final. Personally I believe the winner of the first semi will win the final. I do not believe that Bath have the mental fortitude atm to win two big matches, so if they beat tigers (and they should) I reckon they would lose at Twickenham to either of Saints or Sarries.

LondonTiger wrote:Current odds on winning the whole thing:

Saints 13/8
Bath 9/4
Saracens 19/5
Leicester 8/1


Bath meanwhile are favourites to make the final. Personally I believe the winner of the first semi will win the final. I do not believe that Bath have the mental fortitude atm to win two big matches, so if they beat tigers (and they should) I reckon they would lose at Twickenham to either of Saints or Sarries.

Well this is one time I hope the oddsmakers get it right. Slim pickings between the top three teams. And anyone would be foolish to write off Leicester.

TBH I am prepared to be that fool that writes Leicester off.

I'm going for a SarriesvTigers final.

I think both teams have the mental edge on their opponents, both are peaking at the right times and both have the right physicality and no nonsense styles for knock out rugby.

Obviously neither are better then Quins though, who only missed out through bad luck...

LondonTiger wrote:TBH I am prepared to be that fool that writes Leicester off.

You are prepared to be a fool? I pity you.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJnKm6ftPu0

Sorry mate, but you had to know this was coming.

yappysnap wrote:I'm going for a SarriesvTigers final.

I think both teams have the mental edge on their opponents, both are peaking at the right times and both have the right physicality and no nonsense styles for knock out rugby.

Obviously neither are better then Quins though, who only missed out through bad luck...

Interested to understand why you think Saracens have a mental edge on Saints yappy. In recent years Saints beat Saracens in the AP semi becoming one of the first teams to win at Allianz Park, beat them again in the AP final last year (just) and have done the double over them this regular season. Unfortunately (and I really hope I'm wrong) I have a bad feeling Saracens will progress this time but more due to them being in better form, Saints issues at tight-head and predictability in the backs without Foden and to a lesser extent North (although I wouldn't be surprised to see him involved in the 23 from some of the interviews given recently).

Really hoping I'm wrong as usual of course....

B91212 Saracens were in better form till the 3 losses in a row.

I agree with you. Don't know why yappysnap thinks Saracens have the mental edge. I also agree that Saracens could well progress simply because they are due a win vs Saints.

Too many close losses - I expect the pendulum to swing at some point.

Saints are the favourites but I expect this match to be a slog - what Saracens need to do well is be clinical and keep the penalty count down.

Too much inaccuracy in the 3 losses.

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS TEAM TO PLAY SARACENS


15 Ahsee TUALA
14 Ken PISI
13 George PISI
12 Luther BURRELL
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Alex CORBISIERO
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Salesi MA’AFU
4 Courtney LAWES
5 Christian DAY
6 Tom WOOD
7 Calum CLARK
8 Samu MANOA

16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Gareth DENMAN
19 Sam DICKINSON
20 Jon FISHER
21 Kahn FOTUALI’I
22 Tom STEPHENSON
23 James WILSON

Saracens team to face Northampton Saints
15 Alex Goode
14 Chris Wyles
13 Duncan Taylor
12 Brad Barritt
11 David Strettle
10 Owen Farrell
9 Richard Wigglesworth
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Petrus Du Plessis
4 George Kruis
5 Alistair Hargreaves ©
6 Maro Itoje
7 Jacques Burger
8 Billy Vunipola
16 Schalk Brits
17 Richard Barrington
18 Juan Figallo
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Jackson Wray
21 Neil de Kock
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 Chris Ashton

Barritt returns for Saints with Ashton dropping to the bench.

http://www.saracens.com/saracens-name-team-for-premiership-semi-final/

Saracens team to face Northampton Saints

15 Alex Goode
14 Chris Wyles
13 Duncan Taylor
12 Brad Barritt
11 David Strettle
10 Owen Farrell
9 Richard Wigglesworth
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Petrus Du Plessis
4 George Kruis
5 Alistair Hargreaves ©
6 Maro Itoje
7 Jacques Burger
8 Billy Vunipola

16 Schalk Brits
17 Richard Barrington
18 Juan Figallo
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Jackson Wray
21 Neil de Kock
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 Chris Ashton


Quite an odd team.

Taylor hasn't started a game for Saracens in months. Barritt is just coming back from injury. Farrell has been in poor form for the last year or so but I guess he is there to shore up the defence.

Relieved that no Gill on the bench, at last Barrington has been given the nod. Don't know why it's taken so long.

Referee: Greg Garner (82nd Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce and Matthew Carley. TMO: Sean Davey.

LondonTiger wrote:Referee: Greg Garner (82nd Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce and Matthew Carley. TMO: Sean Davey.

I think Mr Shocked would have preferred Wayne Barnes - as would I. Instead Bath v Tigers is being reffed by J P Doyle.

Not sure how Garner officiates, will he suit one team or t'other?

Jimpy totally agree. Wayne Barnes would have been the preferable option. Obviously he's given the final.

Well Garner was ref when Saints beat Saracens last time they played in MK. Personally I think he suits Saints.


NORTHAMPTON SAINTS TEAM TO PLAY SARACENS
Aviva Premiership Semi-Final
Franklin’s Gardens
Saturday, May 23rd, 2015
Kick off 2:00pm

15 Ahsee TUALA
14 Ken PISI
13 George PISI
12 Luther BURRELL
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Alex CORBISIERO
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Salesi MA’AFU
4 Courtney LAWES
5 Christian DAY
6 Tom WOOD
7 Calum CLARK
8 Samu MANOA

16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Gareth DENMAN
19 Sam DICKINSON
20 Jon FISHER
21 Kahn FOTUALI’I
22 Tom STEPHENSON
23 James WILSON

Strong Saints team.

Though saying that I am hoping Saracens scrum can put pressure on Corbisiero who I think has struggled in recent weeks.

Corbisiero vs Du Plessis

Manoa vs Billy

Wood vs Itoje

Myler vs Farrell

Burrell vs Barritt

The key battles IMO.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy totally agree. Wayne Barnes would have been the preferable option. Obviously he's given the final.

Well Garner was ref when Saints beat Saracens last time they played in MK. Personally I think he suits Saints.


NORTHAMPTON SAINTS TEAM TO PLAY SARACENS
Aviva Premiership Semi-Final
Franklin’s Gardens
Saturday, May 23rd, 2015
Kick off 2:00pm

15 Ahsee TUALA
14 Ken PISI
13 George PISI
12 Luther BURRELL
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Alex CORBISIERO
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Salesi MA’AFU
4 Courtney LAWES
5 Christian DAY
6 Tom WOOD
7 Calum CLARK
8 Samu MANOA

16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Gareth DENMAN
19 Sam DICKINSON
20 Jon FISHER
21 Kahn FOTUALI’I
22 Tom STEPHENSON
23 James WILSON

Strong Saints team.

Though saying that I am hoping Saracens scrum can put pressure on Corbisiero who I think has struggled in recent weeks.

Corbisiero vs Du Plessis

Manoa vs Billy

Wood vs Itoje

Myler vs Farrell

Burrell vs Barritt

The key battles IMO.

Corbs looked strong against Cole at the weekend, with a 4st weight disadvantage behind him. If he was not fully firing Waller would be starting.


Manoa vs Billy - Interesting one, Potentially Manoa's last game for Saints if they don't win. Both immense carriers, Manoa edges it purely due to his broken play.

Wood vs Itoje - Wood should edge this, youth and enthusiasm vs Skill, knowhow and engine. -- Wood by a mile but the distance is getting smaller. Time for Itoje to show SL he is up to international standard.

Myler vs Farrell - Two Mr. dependables, except that Farrell has not looked himself since he came back from injury. Better kicker than Myler but cannot get a backline moving as well. Too close to call.

Burrell vs Barritt - If he had been playing for the last month I would say Barritt, but he hasn't and is likely to be a bit off the pace, especially with an inexperienced 13 outside him. The Pisi's and Elliot will look to exploit any rustiness. Burrell will charge up like he usually does and Barritt will halt the charge, can he stop the offload though.

Personally on current form I would have played Haywood over Hartley, he is the nearest thing we have to an English Schalk Brits, pace, step, acceleration, great ball handling skills. Just wish he could put on another 10kg. Oh and I forgot ( I bet Salvi hasn't) a tackling machine second only to Courtney Lawes in effect.

Well past it

Different opinions on Corbisiero - I saw him get stuffed by Francis and struggle vs Du Plessis. The Tigers fans seem to think Corbisiero struggled too. Doesn't mean he will struggle tomorrow but personally I don't think he's in top form. Du Plessis in comparison has been quietly doing his job well at TH.


Manoa edges it? Disagree. Billy is one of the most in form no 8s in the NH let alone the AP. Billy wins because of his workrate which is immense. Saints were fortunate that Manoa managed to injure Billy. Only way he could win the h2h. It was a clear shoulder charge but no YC was shown.

Billy and Wray being injured in quick suggestion was the turning point.

Wood vs Itoje - I agree with you to some extent. Wood certainly has the experience and know how. He also is a good lineout operator. On the other hand I think you are downplaying Itoje - it's quite clearly a very skilled player and throws him into situations where he can force turnovers. His discipline needs work though.

Myler vs Farrell - if Farrell was in form he would win this H2H but he's not. Myler gets Saints ticking along. Though an injury to Myler would leave Saints in a difficult situation because he's barely missed a game in the last 2-3 years. If Farrell is struggling or injured, Charlie can come on.

Burrell vs Barritt - I agree. Rustiness in the centres is an area I would exploit if I was Saints. Test Barritt and Taylor.

Although I think Corbisiero was better than he had been against Tigers he is still, along with Ma'afu, a cause for concern for me. I'm glad Sarcens are not generally destructive scummages but I will still be pretty nervous come scrum time. Ma'afu seems to gone backwards since Christmas. He was always pretty anonymous in the loose (save for a few tackles or fisticuffs) but just about solid enough in the set piece before. Unfortunately Saints have no real alternative, Denman is a decent enough squad player only and Mercey has all but disappeared from view.

Not much to chose between Manoa or Billy Vunipola although I would maybe have BV slightly ahead due to current form. Both players ultra-critical to their teams style of play.

I was hoping Itoje would be in the second row or on the bench as that Saracens backrow looks impressive. Surprised that Brown isn't on the bench (is he injured?), I expected Burger to go full pelt for 50 destructive minutes and and then have Brown replace him but with Wray on the bench if Burger does go off Saracens could look a little unbalanced unless they plan to use Brits there if needed. Expected to see Wyles/ Bosch at 13 with Ashton at 14 in the backs so Taylor at 13 is a strange call for me, George Pisi can shoot out of the line when defending leaving gaps for the speedier guys to exploit.

Hope I'm wrong but I still have a bad feeling about this. I hope home advantage is enough.....

Corbisiero was solid against us at WR. He tired quickly and with Ma'afu falling apart at tight head he didn't really suffer much of an examination. He was active in the loose but I'd imagine Waller will make an appearance shortly after half time.

From a purely one-eyed Scotland perspective I am delighted to see Taylor get a start and I don't think that he'll let anyone down. Assuming Kelly Brown is still broken - can Sarries fans confirm?

If Brown was fit I'd imagine he'd be playing. As talented as young Itoje is in big games you want your big players.

B91212 wrote:Hope I'm wrong but I still have a bad feeling about this. I hope home advantage is enough.....

15 Ahsee TUALA
Yes, I have a bad feeling about this, too.  

Also Ken Pisi couldn't catch a high kick even if he was given a shark net to use.  
And what do Saracens do all game long?
kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick
kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick

All whilst Nigel Wray sits in the stands and stares.............

Anyone got a link to watch this match?

see your PMs

wild. great great kick chase try from strettle.

0-7 3mins gone

Brilliant chase & offload from Duncan Taylor, never had him down as a speedy guy.

Saints look a bit tired

Edit: maybe I'm wrong, this could be a great game

Anyone got a good link to this, mine keeps breaking.

Check your pms