Aviva Semi 1: Northampton Saints v Saracens, 23 May

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Northampton Saints v Saracens
Saturday 23 May 2015
KO: 14:00
Franklin's Gardens

Live on BT Sport

Referee: Greg Garner (82nd Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce and Matthew Carley.
TMO: Sean Davey.

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

46 Played 46
20 Wins 26
26 Losses 20
0 Draws 0
106 Tries 91
75 Conversions 62
115 Penalties 141
8 Drop Goals 15
1,049 Points 1,038
25 Avg. Age 28

B. Head to Head - This Season

Sun 23rd Nov 14 - Saracens 24 - 31 Northampton Saints

Sat 25th Apr 15 - Northampton Saints 25 - 20 Saracens

C. Run-In

Northampton Saints

16/05/15 Tigers 22 - 14 Saints

09/05/15 Saints 46 - 0 L Welsh

25/04/15 Saints 25 - 20 Saracens

Saracens

16/05/15 L Welsh 17 - 68 Saracens

10/05/15 Saracens 20 - 24 Chiefs

25/04/15 Saints 25 - 20

D. Teams

Northampton Saints

15 Ahsee TUALA
14 Ken PISI
13 George PISI
12 Luther BURRELL
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Stephen MYLER
09 Lee DICKSON

01 Alex CORBISIERO
02 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
03 Salesi MA’AFU
04 Courtney LAWES
05 Christian DAY
06 Tom WOOD
07 Calum CLARK
08 Samu MANOA

16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Gareth DENMAN
19 Sam DICKINSON
20 Jon FISHER
21 Kahn FOTUALI’I
22 Tom STEPHENSON
23 James WILSON

Saracens

15 Alex Goode
14 Chris Wyles
13 Duncan Taylor
12 Brad Barritt
11 David Strettle
10 Owen Farrell
09 Richard Wigglesworth

01 Mako Vunipola
02 Jamie George
03 Petrus Du Plessis
04 George Kruis
05 Alistair Hargreaves (capt)
06 Maro Itoje
07 Jacques Burger
08 Billy Vunipola

16 Schalk Brits
17 Richard Barrington
18 Juan Figallo
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Jackson Wray
21 Neil de Kock
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 Chris Ashton

Pen against saints, they are definitely losing this stage of the game

16-23 to sarries

Ken Pisi really can't catch. Couldn't catch syphilis in a Blackpool bordello.

Try saints! Blimey this game is going to have a nervy ending

try saints. rolling maul

Fantastic - typical Saints try.

Wray is probably sacrificing a few chickens right now to help get the Saracens back on track. If not, a few young children.

Tmo on Dylan again. Is it his head or shoulder that he leads with.


Ref says play on, right decision for me but Dylan needs to calm down a bit

doctor_grey wrote:Fantastic - typical Saints try.  

Wray is probably sacrificing a few chickens right now to help get the Saracens back on track.  If not, a few young children.

You see??? Wray is responsible for that kick going wide. We cannot miss any points like that.

Lol, burger is like a cannonball

Lovely kick

Saints really no clinical enough. Really need to amp it up now.

doctor_grey wrote:Saints really no clinical enough.  Really need to amp it up now.

They seem a bit flat at the moment

21-29, could that be it

Have to admit, this has been a brilliant game

Lovely kick by myler to rush that

thrilling stuff!

That really was a great game.

great game. really intense. sarries seemed a bit sharper and more up for it in contact and chase and i think that was the marginal difference.

Congratualations sarries, hard luck saints. also congratulations saints for finishing top

I still think Saints need a freshening up of the coaching set up

Hood83 wrote:I still think Saints need a freshening up of the coaching set up

I think they need a bigger squad so they can rotate more, the amount of times in games towards the end of the season they look knackered.

They may have to buy cheaper players and have more of them

I have no favourites in today's games but it just occurred to me that Bath vs Saracens result would throw up some interesting England head-to-heads.

Mind you, Leicester vs Saracens would be a tasty match too.

Warren Gatland will be a happy man now that North is out of club competition.

Felt a little bit dirty cheering for Saracens but they definitely deserved it. Will echo the previous comments about the match, fantastic semi for the neutrals to watch. Although I'd love for you all to be bored to tears by the next one with a 0-3 win for Leicester after 80 minutes of scrums.

Depression

doctor_grey wrote:Depression

Don't worry mate, I'm sure I'll be joining you there in a couple of hours

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Depression

Don't worry mate, I'm sure I'll be joining you there in a couple of hours

Yep. At least we can lie to ourselves over the summer and say Saracens and Bath only won because they ignored the cap. No worries fellas the moral victory shall be ours.

And Grey, Saints will be home semi finalists again next year and will be able to bottle today's disappointment just like Saracens were able to this time. The dip won't last long

Congrats Sarries.

Going into my hole to sulk until next year.

Only one complaint, HOW DID BURGER REMAIN ON THE PITCH?

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Depression

Don't worry mate, I'm sure I'll be joining you there in a couple of hours

Yep. At least we can lie to ourselves over the summer and say Saracens and Bath only won because they ignored the cap. No worries fellas the moral victory shall be ours.

And Grey, Saints will be home semi finalists again next year and will be able to bottle today's disappointment just like Saracens were able to this time. The dip won't last long

I agree with you, the noble and honest clubs could both possibly lose. Leaving those who have sacrificed themselves to dark side of the force!

Next year will be interesting for Saints.
Hopefully Foden will have recovered from his ACL and is close to his best. His prognosis is good. The difference in Saints play with him and without him is huge. He is such a a key player and gives the team a different look and attacking dimension. Plus he catches kicks under pressure without sweating it.

North will be back, and the front row should be better. Manoa will be a huge loss.

The backs will have an interesting look with JJ Hanrahan taking some time at both 10 and 12. Assuming he can be developed, he gives a better rotation between Myler (10), Burrell (12 or 13), Stephenson (12), and George Pisi (13). Having a few younger wings available will enable Ken Pisi to play less and therefore drop fewer balls.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Congrats Sarries.

Going into my hole to sulk until next year.

Only one complaint, HOW DID BURGER REMAIN ON THE PITCH?

No need to sulk. Saints had a decent season. Not sure how we replace Manoa, but otherwise, I think we should be in good shape. Possibly 3 England props next season!

Commiserations Doc.

Not sure what is worse to lose when you should have won, or to be thrashed as we were.

LondonTiger wrote:Commiserations Doc.

Not sure what is worse to lose when you should have won, or to be thrashed as we were.

Not sure mate.  Losing stinks.  I guess losing is kind of like getting blind stupid drunk, taking a girl back home, and waking up the next morning to find she was not so pretty.  Whether you lose at the death or get hammered is like waking up and finding out the unlovely lass is actually the girl's mum or finding out she is not a she.  
Either way, you lose.........

Well the game kind of went how I expected even to the points difference although I thought it would be lower scoring than it was. Felt overall Saracens were good for their win although a maybe a little lucky not to go down to 14 again in the second half due to repeated infringements. Still the better team won on the day and I wish them well in the final.

What is it with how injuries always seem to hit one position more than others? Saints finished the game with their 4th choice full back (Foden, Tuala, Wilson and finally Ken Pisi) and it showed. In fact Ken Pisi is probably 5th choice FB as Collins is probably before him but wasn't in the 23. Shame for Corbs and hopefully it wasn't too bad but he had treatment early on before lasting about another 25 mins before it forced him off. First time he has looked something like his old self since returning this time.

Looking forward to the final as neutral, two contrasting styles. Hope the weather plays it's part and it stays dry and still.

Thought Saints looked tired and their big names just didn't do enough, guys like Manoa, Maafu, Clark and the half backs just couldn't compete with their opposite numbers.

Sarries instead looked well up for it, played their A game of kick and defend and were very rarely troubled.

It does make a strong case for the end of the play-offs. When a team who barely scraped into 4th position can beat the team that finished top (by a country mile at some points in the season), it makes you wonder if the teams wont start to question the system.

B91212 not going to deny just like the MK game, injuries did have an impact - this time on Saints.

As for Corbisiero he looked good against a 7 man Saracens scrum..... unfortunately not for the first time he got injured.

Yappysnap how could Saints be tired when they've been resting their players a few times in the last few weeks? They have had 3 rest periods - ERCC semi finals, ERCC final and vs Leicester. Saracens had 1 week off - the ERCC final.

Jimpy disagree. Home team should win.

I said before the game - doesn't matter where you end up in the playoffs as long as you win that game. Saracens managed that. The system is as it is - you've just got to play the game.

Saracens' intensity in my opinion from the starting minute was where it needed to be when facing a side like Saints. This Sarries vs Saints rivalry needed a Sarries win simply because it was becoming way too one sided.

Burger was a menace with his huge hits. Itoje introduced himself to Lawes. Farrell - played to his strengths of being a physical 10 and using his goal kicking to great effect. The Vunipola bros of course have power which is tough to contain.

Wigglesworth showed what he can do - he's got one of the best box kicks in England.

Saints quite clearly missed additional firepower in the backs like Foden and North which they needed to break down the Saracens defence bar the lineout drive.

Though saying that I think that Wood did his efforts to be England's starting 6 again no harm whatsoever. I thought he was the best Saints player but needed the likes of Manoa and Lawes to show the same effort he did.

beshocked wrote:B91212 not going to deny just like the MK game, injuries did have an impact - this time on Saints.

As for Corbisiero he looked good against a 7 man Saracens scrum..... unfortunately not for the first time he got injured.

Yappysnap how could Saints be tired when they've been resting their players a few times in the last few weeks? They have had 3 rest periods  - ERCC semi finals, ERCC final and vs Leicester. Saracens had 1 week off - the ERCC final.

Jimpy disagree. Home team should win.

I said before the game - doesn't matter where you end up in the playoffs as long as you win that game. Saracens managed that. The system is as it is - you've just got to play the game.

Saracens' intensity in my opinion from the starting minute was where it needed to be when facing a side like Saints. This Sarries vs Saints rivalry needed a Sarries win simply because it was becoming way too one sided.

Burger was a menace with his huge hits. Itoje introduced himself to Lawes. Farrell - played to his strengths of being a physical 10 and using his goal kicking to great effect. The Vunipola bros of course have power which is tough to contain.

Wigglesworth showed what he can do - he's got one of the best box kicks in England.

Saints quite clearly missed additional firepower in the backs like Foden and North which they needed to break down the Saracens defence bar the lineout drive.

Though saying that I think that Wood did his efforts to be England's starting 6 again no harm whatsoever. I thought he was the best Saints player but needed the likes of Manoa and Lawes to show the same effort he did.

That isn't what I said. Should have won and didn't. What I'm saying is that a system that allows a team finishing 4th (only just) to even compete with the team coming 1st for a title is a lifeline to some teams, but is morally objectionable to others. Especially when its strongly believed that the two teams now competing for the title have been ignoring the salary cap rules.

Ignoring any salary cap issues which arent proven the playoffs for the Premin rugby are the only ones that dont feel like a con to the teams involved. With club games running through internations you do end up seeing teams losing players through no fault of their own and affecting resulsts.

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:B91212 not going to deny just like the MK game, injuries did have an impact - this time on Saints.

As for Corbisiero he looked good against a 7 man Saracens scrum..... unfortunately not for the first time he got injured.

Yappysnap how could Saints be tired when they've been resting their players a few times in the last few weeks? They have had 3 rest periods  - ERCC semi finals, ERCC final and vs Leicester. Saracens had 1 week off - the ERCC final.

Jimpy disagree. Home team should win.

I said before the game - doesn't matter where you end up in the playoffs as long as you win that game. Saracens managed that. The system is as it is - you've just got to play the game.

Saracens' intensity in my opinion from the starting minute was where it needed to be when facing a side like Saints. This Sarries vs Saints rivalry needed a Sarries win simply because it was becoming way too one sided.

Burger was a menace with his huge hits. Itoje introduced himself to Lawes. Farrell - played to his strengths of being a physical 10 and using his goal kicking to great effect. The Vunipola bros of course have power which is tough to contain.

Wigglesworth showed what he can do - he's got one of the best box kicks in England.

Saints quite clearly missed additional firepower in the backs like Foden and North which they needed to break down the Saracens defence bar the lineout drive.

Though saying that I think that Wood did his efforts to be England's starting 6 again no harm whatsoever. I thought he was the best Saints player but needed the likes of Manoa and Lawes to show the same effort he did.

That isn't what I said. Should have won and didn't. What I'm saying is that a system that allows a team finishing 4th (only just) to even compete with the team coming 1st for a title is a lifeline to some teams, but is morally objectionable to others. Especially when its strongly believed that the two teams now competing for the title have been ignoring the salary cap rules.

I doubt you would be saying that if it was Tigers beating Saints at FG and getting to the final. Only just finished 4th agreed - 3rd and 5th were all on the same points yet 4th showed it's quite a bit stronger than the team that came 3rd.

You can shout from the rooftops that you came 3rd on points difference but it doesn't change what happened in the playoffs. Perhaps Exeter would have put up more of a fight. I also I should add that if Saints didn't throw away the game vs Leicester then Exeter would have qualified instead of Leicester.

Don't hear you complaining about Saints throwing in the towel. Of course not - it benefitted Leicester.

You say it's a lifeline - if you play at home you should win. Home advantage is important. Everyone knows the playoff rules at the beginning of the season - Saracens have been on the wrong end too having finished 1st twice in a row in the previous seasons - losing to Saints twice. Same playoff rules for everyone.

Have you ever preached that it was unfair that some teams get more rest periods than others? No of course you haven't. Have you ever complained that the teams having got further in the top tier European competition are hampered?

beshocked wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:B91212 not going to deny just like the MK game, injuries did have an impact - this time on Saints.

As for Corbisiero he looked good against a 7 man Saracens scrum..... unfortunately not for the first time he got injured.

Yappysnap how could Saints be tired when they've been resting their players a few times in the last few weeks? They have had 3 rest periods  - ERCC semi finals, ERCC final and vs Leicester. Saracens had 1 week off - the ERCC final.

Jimpy disagree. Home team should win.

I said before the game - doesn't matter where you end up in the playoffs as long as you win that game. Saracens managed that. The system is as it is - you've just got to play the game.

Saracens' intensity in my opinion from the starting minute was where it needed to be when facing a side like Saints. This Sarries vs Saints rivalry needed a Sarries win simply because it was becoming way too one sided.

Burger was a menace with his huge hits. Itoje introduced himself to Lawes. Farrell - played to his strengths of being a physical 10 and using his goal kicking to great effect. The Vunipola bros of course have power which is tough to contain.

Wigglesworth showed what he can do - he's got one of the best box kicks in England.

Saints quite clearly missed additional firepower in the backs like Foden and North which they needed to break down the Saracens defence bar the lineout drive.

Though saying that I think that Wood did his efforts to be England's starting 6 again no harm whatsoever. I thought he was the best Saints player but needed the likes of Manoa and Lawes to show the same effort he did.

That isn't what I said. Should have won and didn't. What I'm saying is that a system that allows a team finishing 4th (only just) to even compete with the team coming 1st for a title is a lifeline to some teams, but is morally objectionable to others. Especially when its strongly believed that the two teams now competing for the title have been ignoring the salary cap rules.

I doubt you would be saying that if it was Tigers beating Saints at FG and getting to the final. Only just finished 4th agreed - 3rd and 5th were all on the same points yet 4th showed it's quite a bit stronger than the team that came 3rd.

You can shout from the rooftops that you came 3rd on points difference but it doesn't change what happened in the playoffs. Perhaps Exeter would have put up more of a fight. I also I should add that if Saints didn't throw away the game vs Leicester then Exeter would have qualified instead of Leicester.

Don't hear you complaining about Saints throwing in the towel. Of course not - it benefitted Leicester.

You say it's a lifeline - if you play at home you should win. Home advantage is important. Everyone knows the  playoff rules at the beginning of the season - Saracens have been on the wrong end too having finished 1st twice in a row in the previous seasons - losing to Saints twice. Same playoff rules for everyone.

Have you ever preached that it was unfair that some teams get more rest periods than others? No of course you haven't. Have you ever complained that the teams having got further in the top tier European competition are hampered?

Yet again, you've almost entirely (and no doubt wilfully) missed the point I was making. Have you tried Specsavers....?

I wasn't debating the results, I was simply suggesting that the system can be unfair to who were demonstrably the best team over 18 league games. Its a system we have, and that's that. I just don't like it, particularly under the cloud of alleged salary cap breaches (which, by the way, will be investigated next month).

I would be pleased if Leicester had won through to the final. However, they were simply not good enough this year (however, the final league standings for the end of the regular season will show that they were better than the team in 4th, not the other way round - would Saracens have beaten Bath? Saracens had London Welsh in Round 18, Tigers had Saints - I know who I'd rather have faced). Leicester wouldn't have deserved to win a final anyway in my opinion. They struggled all season with coherence, but it would have been typical for them to turn a generally poor season into two good knock-out games and have won the title. Some would say they would have deserved it. Not me. In fact, I can't remember, but have Leicester ever won the overall title when they didn't actually finish top of the league during a regular season? They may have done it against Glaws in the early days of the AP.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ignoring any salary cap issues which arent proven the playoffs for the Premin rugby are the only ones that dont feel like a con to the teams involved. With club games running through internations you do end up seeing teams losing players through no fault of their own and affecting resulsts.

Is the playoff structure not meant to be in place in order to take account of games during internationals and also top end players getting pulled for Test matches? The premise being that it might not necessarily be true that the team that finishes top at the end regular season was the best team as they may have benefitted (supposedly) or capitalised on other teams during AIs and 6Ns periods.

Saracens got a great win on the road, never an easy task. Bath made the Tigers look like an embarrasment. I wonder will Bath look back on this season and rue not capitalising on meeting a poor Leinster team in the QFs of Europe (and probably paying them too much respect in the match)?

It will be an interesting final. Hopefully a open affair with plenty of tries (with the players deciding the result instead of the ref's whistle).

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ignoring any salary cap issues which arent proven the playoffs for the Premin rugby are the only ones that dont feel like a con to the teams involved. With club games running through internations you do end up seeing teams losing players through no fault of their own and affecting resulsts.

Is the playoff structure not meant to be in place in order to take account of games during internationals and also top end players getting pulled for Test matches? The premise being that it might not necessarily be true that the team that finishes top at the end regular season was the best team as they may have benefitted (supposedly) or capitalised on other teams during AIs and 6Ns periods.

Saracens got a great win on the road, never an easy task.  Bath made the Tigers look like an embarrasment.  I wonder will Bath look back on this season and rue not capitalising on meeting a poor Leinster team in the QFs of Europe (and probably paying them too much respect in the match)?

It will be an interesting final. Hopefully a open affair with plenty of tries (with the players deciding the result instead of the ref's whistle).

Whilst I could be accused of bias, as well as being almost pigeon English, that statement is pure fabrication. Both DoR were quoted as saying that the final score flattered Bath - yes Mike ford said it too. Cockerill did make some odd comments, but do try to look at the match stats. Leicester were hardly under the cosh. Finishing was their problem (and it has been all season). Bath were lucky not to have a penalty try against them when they had two yellow cards in quick succession under their own posts. However, they didn't, Bath got away and built an unassailable lead. Well played, they were better on the day.

Jimpy Leicester were on 68 points just like Saracens and Exeter. You can shout from the rooftops about 3rd but in this playoff system it does not matter.

Also as I said Leicester came 3rd because Saints rested basically their entire first team. If I was an Exeter fan I would be annoyed by that. I can understand why Saints did it but still didn't help Exeter and quite clearly helped Tigers.

You should be thanking Saints for making sure you made the playoffs.

You say the system is unfair - the system is in place for a couple of reasons - more games = more money, second reason it gives teams who are fighting on more than one front an opportunity to be in the top 4.

You talk about fairness. Some teams lose none/ or a small amount of players to international squads - they have an advantage over those that do lose players during the IW.

Some teams are not involved in European rugby quarter finals and beyond - this gives them more rest periods = advantage.

You talk about deserving to win the title. If Tigers had beaten Bath away then either Saints or Sarries in the final it would have been an impressive feat.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy Leicester were on 68 points just like Saracens and Exeter. You can shout from the rooftops about 3rd but in this playoff system it does not matter.

Also as I said Leicester came 3rd because Saints rested basically their entire first team. If I was an Exeter fan I would be annoyed by that. I can understand why Saints did it but still didn't help Exeter and quite clearly helped Tigers.

You should be thanking Saints for making sure you made the playoffs.

You say the system is unfair - the system is in place for a couple of reasons - more games = more money, second reason it gives teams who are fighting on more than one front an opportunity to be in the top 4.

You talk about fairness. Some teams lose none/ or a small amount of players to international squads - they have an advantage over those that do lose players during the IW.

Some teams are not involved in European rugby quarter finals and beyond - this gives them more rest periods = advantage.

You talk about deserving to win the title. If Tigers had beaten Bath away then either Saints or Sarries in the final it would have been an impressive feat.

And Saracens came 4th because they had London Welsh.... what's the difference? Exeter are probably just as annoyed about that? You should be thanking LW for allowing you to reach the play-offs....

See what I did there?

And, just how many different teams have contested the play-offs? I'd be more interested in a system that introduced a modicum of 'fairness' because the salary cap was enforced... for example....

It would have, but there was no way they were going to do that this year. I'd have been amazed. There are advocates for the play-off system and detractors from it. I happen to be in the latter. For every plus point, there is a minus - but as I've said, its the system we have and that's that.

Everyone played London Welsh. Not everyone played Saints a week before the playoff game when they had already secured 1st place.

Jimpy Saracens had to play London Welsh at some point. They had 5 tough games in a row before that.

London Welsh are just a poor team - they didn't deliberately play a weakened side.

Saints are a good side who deliberately fielded a weak team to rest their players for the playoffs. I can understand why Saints did it but it still isn't what you would call fair on Exeter.

Surely the salary cap being enforced is a different thing entirely.

I am sure you would be advocator of the playoffs if Leicester benefitted more from them!

As for the playoffs I don't mind either way though have always said there should be a shield like in the super league for the league leaders.

IIRC Exeter played Saints during the Internationals so played a weakened Saints side

beshocked wrote:

Yappysnap how could Saints be tired when they've been resting their players a few times in the last few weeks? They have had 3 rest periods  - ERCC semi finals, ERCC final and vs Leicester. Saracens had 1 week off - the ERCC final.

I don't kniw, that's for their coaches to work out. But for the last few seasons Saints have gone into the playoffs looking off the pace, last season they just managed to sneak it. This season Sarries were far better then them, not just tactically (where you looked a massive cut above) but man for man you looked sharper, quicker and every player made far more involvements on the game. Saints seemed to be walking through treacle.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy Leicester were on 68 points just like Saracens and Exeter. You can shout from the rooftops about 3rd but in this playoff system it does not matter.

Also as I said Leicester came 3rd because Saints rested basically their entire first team. If I was an Exeter fan I would be annoyed by that. I can understand why Saints did it but still didn't help Exeter and quite clearly helped Tigers.

You should be thanking Saints for making sure you made the playoffs.

You say the system is unfair - the system is in place for a couple of reasons - more games = more money, second reason it gives teams who are fighting on more than one front an opportunity to be in the top 4.

You talk about fairness. Some teams lose none/ or a small amount of players to international squads - they have an advantage over those that do lose players during the IW.

Some teams are not involved in European rugby quarter finals and beyond - this gives them more rest periods = advantage.

You talk about deserving to win the title. If Tigers had beaten Bath away then either Saints or Sarries in the final it would have been an impressive feat.

That's pure speculation to say that tigers wouldn't of beaten saints if they had a stronger team out, so saying we should thank them is a bit daft.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy Saracens had to play London Welsh at some point. They had 5 tough games in a row before that.

London Welsh are just a poor team - they didn't deliberately play a weakened side.

Saints are a good side who deliberately fielded a weak team to rest their players for the playoffs. I can understand why Saints did it but it still isn't what you would call fair on Exeter.

Surely the salary cap being enforced is a different thing entirely.

I am sure you would be advocator of the playoffs if Leicester benefitted more from them!

As for the playoffs I don't mind either way though have always said there should be a shield like in the super league for the league leaders.

They generally don't have to rely on them to win finals.... as I've said before, I'm sure its happened but I can't remember a year where Tigers won the title and didn't finish top of the league after the regular season......

I hate the play-offs. Its a money generator.