Englands' 50 man Training Squad for RWC

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England Rugby World Cup training squad (50)
Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

beshocked wrote:B91212 actually now you mention it Waller is unfortunate not to be ahead of Corbisiero.

Personally I think Corbisiero has struggled for Saints in recent weeks. I guess Corbisiero is 3rd LH because he's got international experience though form wise I wouldn't have him in.

Seems a bit ironic not to pick Wade when Ashton has such a poor reputation when it comes to defence!

Though saying that I think Ashton deserves his spot, it's Strettle that I think should have been replaced by Wade.

I like Strettle but he is on the wrong side of 30 and I wouldn't say he adds more than Wade.

Corbs looked very comfortable against Dan Cole on Saturday, Cole struggled even with a stringer back 5 behind him, a good sign for both Corbs and England. Waller is a different sort of player, not destructive as a scrummager, but like another 7 at the breakdown and like most Saints academy products a superb ball handler, he also has the same sort of pace as Tom Youngs.

Not a great sign. I'd argue with Marler's form over the last year that a fully firing Cole is more important.

Have to say I disagree re the Corbs v Cole battle at the weekend. Tigers had clear ascendency at scrum time until Cole and Youngs went off, and Corbs was replaced by Waller.

If Wade is selected against the Barbarians, it will be the first time he wears an England shirt in a game in England. His only cap to date came on the tour to Argentina in 2013. He also represented the British Lions two years ago, but still hasn't set foot on Twickenham turf for England. That's probably a record of some sort.

I don't know whether to be upset about it or not. The problem with England wingers is that they all offer potentially great threats but often don't. Sometimes that's down to the player, sometimes the game plan, often a bit of both.

I'd happily have the Jonny May who burned NZ, the Marland Yarde of 2013, the early England or current Saracens form of Ashton etc etc but we don't seem to get it consistently.

Perhaps we expect too much. Visser flattered to deceive; George North and Alex Cuthbert have bad matches, and Zebo's early magic disappeared for a spell. Not everyone can be like Julian Savea, or Bryan Habana, seemingly supplying match highlights at will.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ultimately though...we probably will all agree the actual world cup final squad will have no surprises.

Not a bad thing...though I just have that nagging feeling that ultimately it doesn't have quite enough to go the whole way and win it.

Post World Cup ill be looking for a slight change in set up and a few players who can hopefully come in and offer a little bit more than some of the current players (maybe back row for example) ...whilst some of the new lads (Ford, Watson, Nowell etc) can really progress.  

To win a World Cup I genuinely believe you need several world class players and I just don't think at the moment we have many. Though some coming through could become that good...

Just my opinon of course

Honestly, Geordie. Regardless of who would be picked are we good enough to win the World Cup? (Without someone else doing us a favour). I don't see it myself. Semi would be good, final excellent.

Rugby Fan wrote:If Wade is selected against the Barbarians, it will be the first time he wears an England shirt in a game in England. His only cap to date came on the tour to Argentina in 2013. He also represented the British Lions two years ago, but still hasn't set foot on Twickenham turf for England. That's probably a record of some sort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5MuhMdxSOw thats a video of Wade scoring at Twickers for England. Lancaster and his team are never going to trust Wade on the wing for England! If May's defence is considered suspect then Wade has a absolute mountain to climb! which is a shame because he's the most exciting wing of his generation! Perhaps he should have stuck to sevens where he would have been a absolute international star.

That's what I mean Hammer...at the moment I just think whilst we're an honest, hardworking side , we're short of the real quality (and in some cases power) to win it. I hope i'm proven wrong don't I don't think I will be. Now don't take that as defeatist...its being a realist.  

What I reffered to post WC is that we have some kids who have gone to the next level winning consecutive JWC's - and these are lads that have already built up some considerable prem league experience already with the top sides. Hopefully some of those coming through can progress and take the England to the next level.

LondonTiger wrote:Have to say I disagree re the Corbs v Cole battle at the weekend. Tigers had clear ascendency at scrum time until Cole and Youngs went off, and Corbs was replaced by Waller.

It was the same when Saints faced Saracens at MK stadium. Corbisiero was struggling IMO. Waller and the Saints replacements improved their scrum significantly.

Also there was the Exeter-Saints game when Francis handled both Corbisiero and Waller well.


I suppose it's the dilemma - do you go for in form players or pick someone who has played international rugby before?

Im afraid I wouldn't have Corbs in the squad. He's been that injury prone its a concern would he last through the intense few weeks of a world cup.

When is the last time he played for England?

Im afraid id give the spot to a youngster for experience as they have with Itoje etc...and focus on:

Marler, Mako, Matt Mullan (whos had an excellent season)

I was thinking the same thing about Corbs GF. He also didn't fair too well last weekend. 

I think too much is being made of May's defence. His missed tackle against Wales is the only example I can think of, but Haskell's pee poor attempt is often forgotten! May's kick chase is also the best of any England winger.  

His main down-side is that he blows occasional overlaps. He seems to have put aside his crabbing, but he offers a genuine threat all over the field. He's had an outstanding season and fully deserves his place in my eyes.

Tiger/Chief wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:If Wade is selected against the Barbarians, it will be the first time he wears an England shirt in a game in England. His only cap to date came on the tour to Argentina in 2013. He also represented the British Lions two years ago, but still hasn't set foot on Twickenham turf for England. That's probably a record of some sort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5MuhMdxSOw thats a video of Wade scoring at Twickers for England.

Damn. I'll have to rework this spurious piece of trivia into something about playing for the Lions but never being capped at home.

bluestonevedder May also showed an inability to stop an Italian scoring in the corner though you are right - Watson's defensive frailties have been ignored.

Personally I think the best kick chaser is Ashton actually.


6 tries in 16 AP games is not that impressive. Wouldn't call it outstanding. 1 vs LW.

Yarde scored 8 tries in 19 games - the Quins fans have hardly been raving over his performances. Though in the latter part of the season he has been improved. Though 3 of them vs LW.

13 tries for Ashton in 20 AP appearances - albeit 5 vs LW.

May has the same try scoring record as Nowell but Nowell have been shifted round the backline.

Nowell and Watson are the current choices and should stay that way for now.

Doubts over Brown though may mean Watson at full back and an open spot on the right wing again. Brown is supposed to be back but it must be being considered.

Or alternatively Nowell at full back I guess.

Well if it's May vs Yarde vs Ashton vs Strettle I would pick in this order - Ashton > Yarde > May >Strettle.

beshocked wrote:bluestonevedder May also showed an inability to stop an Italian scoring in the corner though you are right - Watson's defensive frailties have been ignored.

Personally I think the best kick chaser is Ashton actually.


6 tries in 16 AP games is not that impressive. Wouldn't call it outstanding. 1 vs LW.

Yarde scored 8 tries in 19 games - the Quins fans have hardly been raving over his performances. Though in the latter part of the season he has been improved. Though 3 of them vs LW.

13 tries for Ashton in 20 AP appearances - albeit 5 vs LW.

May has the same try scoring record as Nowell but Nowell have been shifted round the backline.

Nowell and Watson are the current choices and should stay that way for now.

Strettle has only scored 7 though and weren't 3 of those against a Wasps in the 1st week and 1 against Welsh.

Like wise 5 of Ashtons were against.....Welsh

The other serious alternative at full back would be Goode, just think Watson now more clearly suits the game plan. Not so sure of Nowell at full back any more just looks a better winger and Watson is more the future there. You'd guess May would be brought back in first though Ashton could make it. He's impressed again for his club with his support play but must surely be on his final chance for England.

If Mathew Tait is staying is no longer heading to France, and is still available for England, then I'd have him as a back-up full back. Abendanon has done well in France but Tait would probably have looked just as good in that Clermont side. Looks like he hasn't forgotten how to play centre either.

Pretty much discounting anyone not in this squad. If there were another it would be Pennell?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

beshocked wrote:bluestonevedder May also showed an inability to stop an Italian scoring in the corner though you are right - Watson's defensive frailties have been ignored.

Personally I think the best kick chaser is Ashton actually.


6 tries in 16 AP games is not that impressive. Wouldn't call it outstanding. 1 vs LW.

Yarde scored 8 tries in 19 games - the Quins fans have hardly been raving over his performances. Though in the latter part of the season he has been improved. Though 3 of them vs LW.

13 tries for Ashton in 20 AP appearances - albeit 5 vs LW.

May has the same try scoring record as Nowell but Nowell have been shifted round the backline.

Nowell and Watson are the current choices and should stay that way for now.

Strettle has only scored 7 though and weren't 3 of those against a Wasps in the 1st week and 1 against Welsh.

Like wise 5 of Ashtons were against.....Welsh

I know Geordiefalcon doesn't seem like you read all my post. I already said Ashton scored 5 vs LW.

Still a better strike rate even if you take out the 5 tries.

7 tries yes but that's still more than May.

no 7 & 1/2 the problem is that Watson's tackling isn't impressive either.

Props
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), David Wilson (Bath Rugby)

Hookers
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Locks
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)

Back row
Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby), Calum Clark (Northampton Saints), Nick Easter (Harlequins), James Haskell (Wasps), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Scrum half
Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Fly half
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)

Centres Brad Barritt (Saracens), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)

Back three
Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), David Strettle (Saracens), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins)

Just to make it easier to read by position, although some like Slade, Itoje and Burgess are ambiguous

But he looks to be a long term full back rather than winger unless you were meaning May rather than Watson?

Thing is with comparing players strike rate isnt everything, otherwise Tom Waldrom would be the first name on the team sheet. 

What Ashton is very good at is being in the right place at the right time to score tries. It is a really important skill, but then May can score tries from anywhere, and he can also make them for others, like Cipriani's try vs Italy. He is quick enough to worry any team and that in itself makes the opposition have to think about how to counter him, and making the opposition have to think is always a good thing.

beshocked wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

beshocked wrote:bluestonevedder May also showed an inability to stop an Italian scoring in the corner though you are right - Watson's defensive frailties have been ignored.

Personally I think the best kick chaser is Ashton actually.


6 tries in 16 AP games is not that impressive. Wouldn't call it outstanding. 1 vs LW.

Yarde scored 8 tries in 19 games - the Quins fans have hardly been raving over his performances. Though in the latter part of the season he has been improved. Though 3 of them vs LW.

13 tries for Ashton in 20 AP appearances - albeit 5 vs LW.

May has the same try scoring record as Nowell but Nowell have been shifted round the backline.

Nowell and Watson are the current choices and should stay that way for now.

Strettle has only scored 7 though and weren't 3 of those against a Wasps in the 1st week and 1 against Welsh.

Like wise 5 of Ashtons were against.....Welsh

I know Geordiefalcon doesn't seem like you read all my post. I already said Ashton scored 5 vs LW.

Still a better strike rate even if you take out the 5 tries.

7 tries yes but that's still more than May.

no 7 & 1/2 the problem is that Watson's tackling isn't impressive either.

So we have :
May  - 6 from 16 (1 v Welsh)
Ashton - 13 Tries from 20 (5 v Welsh)
Strettle - 7 from 19 games (1 v Welsh)

Is Mays record really that bad??? Comparing also the teams they play for...Ashton and Strettle would expect more chances being a stronger team.

And you pick on May missing one tackle.
What about Haskell missing his tackle...what about Ashtons appalling defence....I can continue.

I really don't think May justifies your criticism.

So ignoring LW May and Strettle have identical strike rates (1/3) and Ashton does better, but in a winning team that is going to create a lot more chances.

Lostinwales Waldrom on the wing? Really?

No 8 is a different position - scoring tries is good but not the main role of a no 8.

Being a finisher and scoring tries is important to wingers IMO. Not the only thing of course but it's important.

May can supposedly score for anywhere but doesn't on a regular basis.

He is supposedly a deadly try scoring machine but his strike rate is poor.

You say he keeps the opponent guessing - really? I don't think opposition have had issue stopping him when he's crabbed across the pitch.

He's very fast but at times he doesn't utilise it properly. He also butchered a try vs Italy.

Bear in mind that Ashton has not had the fortune to play with the likes of Ford and Joseph. He's played with a 10 that is frequently derided for his lack of attacking play and played with a 13 (Tuilagi) who didn't generally pass the ball to the wings.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

beshocked wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

beshocked wrote:bluestonevedder May also showed an inability to stop an Italian scoring in the corner though you are right - Watson's defensive frailties have been ignored.

Personally I think the best kick chaser is Ashton actually.


6 tries in 16 AP games is not that impressive. Wouldn't call it outstanding. 1 vs LW.

Yarde scored 8 tries in 19 games - the Quins fans have hardly been raving over his performances. Though in the latter part of the season he has been improved. Though 3 of them vs LW.

13 tries for Ashton in 20 AP appearances - albeit 5 vs LW.

May has the same try scoring record as Nowell but Nowell have been shifted round the backline.

Nowell and Watson are the current choices and should stay that way for now.

Strettle has only scored 7 though and weren't 3 of those against a Wasps in the 1st week and 1 against Welsh.

Like wise 5 of Ashtons were against.....Welsh

I know Geordiefalcon doesn't seem like you read all my post. I already said Ashton scored 5 vs LW.

Still a better strike rate even if you take out the 5 tries.

7 tries yes but that's still more than May.

no 7 & 1/2 the problem is that Watson's tackling isn't impressive either.

So we have :
May  - 6 from 16 (1 v Welsh)
Ashton - 13 Tries from 20 (5 v Welsh)
Strettle - 7 from 19 games (1 v Welsh)

Is Mays record really that bad??? Comparing also the teams they play for...Ashton and Strettle would expect more chances being a stronger team.

And you pick on May missing one tackle.
What about Haskell missing his tackle...what about Ashtons appalling defence....I can continue.

I really don't think May justifies your criticism.

It's not an outstanding strike rate is it? Ashton's defence is no worse than the likes of Yarde,May and Watson. Only Nowell has a better defence than the rest who are all equally poor.

Well actually I haven't seen a good argument for picking May on the wing.

What is an outstanding strike rate? How does that strike rate translate from club level to international level? What extra wow factors does the player have and are they useful at international level?

And May's defense is better than Ashton's.

Both are relatively experienced internationals. Wing can be a funny position, Unless you are a Nowell who is always looking to be involved it can often be feast or famine depending on what is happening with the rest of the team. Ashton had a stellar start to his international career but looked very ho hum (for whatever reason) in all of his most recent games. May has been up and down but nowhere as bad as is sometimes made out, and his kick chase was badly missed when we played Ireland.

Funnily enough I didn't at any time suggest we played Waldrom on the wing...

Ashton is the worst defensively out of the options but for a long time for England the rest of his game wasnt at the standard he started out with or that he showed for Sarries. If he shows that again questions on his defence die down.

Chris Ashton is playing well enough for Sarries to deserve the call up. It is unlikely he will make the final squad though unless we have injuries - and this is down to how he has performed for England under Lancaster.

Some people like to talk about strike rates - well in 21 tests for England under Lancaster Ashton has managed 4 tries. He has been dropped by Lancaster twice so far, each time after a series of poor games defensively. He has gone away this time and worked on the things he was asked to (taking high balls, kicking and kick chase). However the evidence of the last four years is he will be unable to turn good club form into even passable international form, but deserves his place in the extended squad

England defend quite narrowly looking to flood the first 10m next to the ruck with defenders to stop forward carriers building any momentum or ball speed, then rush up when the ball goes wide to try to trap it in the centres. Hence if the opposition do get the momentum and ball speed needed to get the ball out wide and in space there's a fair argument that the system has already failed. Is there not a chance that this is why our wingers are often criticised for poor defensive play when in fact by the time the ball reaches them they have often already been hung out to dry?

Nowell is the best defender by a distance but all the others have different faults.

Ashton and Wade are probably the poorest overall with their tackling and positioning often suspect - although Ashton has improved in both.

May is a stronger tackler than Ashton or Wade IMO but again his positioning can be poor at times. The same could be said of Yarde. Rokoduguni also is a very strong man and makes some big hits but can get caught out of place.

Watson's positioning tends to be stronger than the above but I question whether his tackling is actually much better than the so often criticised Ashton or Wade.

Strettle is one of the more solid in both regards. He isn't a big tackler and wont put destructive hits like Nowell or Roko can. However his positioning is usually spot on and his reading of the game excellent. Perhaps experience playing a significant role here.

Watson's tackling is really poor. He is bigger than Wade which helps at times and braver than Ashton, but certainly no better than either. Long term he will be full back for us, and in recent times FBs tend to have far fewer tackles to make.

Every winger will have their downfall, whether it is rubbish defence, poor strike rate, crabbing across the pitch, or blowing the occasional overlap. I really don't think there's anything like the complete modern-day winger. If there was, the closet payer to it is Savea. It's what else they bring to the table that counts for them. 

Of course this entire conversation is entirely subjective since we all have our preferences, but I just feel May adds something that others don't. His strike rate doesn't necessarily grab your attention, but he's created a number of tries, and really is a dangerous runner from anywhere on the pitch. Personally, I would have loved to see what he could have done against France in the Six nations. That open game plan was designed for a player like him. I reckon May on the bench would be a lethal weapon. 

Absolutely no disrespect to Ashton, who I reckon has improved immeasurably this season. Yes, his kick chasing is very good beshocked, but May's chase against Wales was spot on, and it was so noticeable in the successive games when he was dropped.

Ashton's kick chase may mean he is there to make a tackle on the player who has just caught the ball, but May has proven that he can win the high ball off the attacking kick too, that's something I rarely see from Ashton

bluestonevedder wrote:Every winger will have their downfall, whether it is rubbish defence, poor strike rate, crabbing across the pitch, or blowing the occasional overlap. I really don't think there's anything like the complete modern-day winger. If there was, the closet payer to it is Savea. It's what else they bring to the table that counts for them. 

Of course this entire conversation is entirely subjective since we all have our preferences, but I just feel May adds something that others don't. His strike rate doesn't necessarily grab your attention, but he's created a number of tries, and really is a dangerous runner from anywhere on the pitch. Personally, I would have loved to see what he could have done against France in the Six nations. That open game plan was designed for a player like him. I reckon May on the bench would be a lethal weapon. 

Absolutely no disrespect to Ashton, who I reckon has improved immeasurably this season. Yes, his kick chasing is very good beshocked, but May's chase against Wales was spot on, and it was so noticeable in the successive games when he was dropped.

In my opinion spot on. I will make reference to the try he made for Cipriani vs Italy. And yes he needed to do something to make up for missing an open goal earlier  

But what he did was make something out of nothing by putting on the afterburners, pulling all of the local Italians in his wake. He was tackled but crucially he got the ball out to the supporting Cipriani who only had a walk in. It is something that I doubt that any of the alternatives could have done.

More recently there was the break he made in the challenge cup final vs Edinburgh. It was a fantastic tap tackle that stopped him score, but from a standing start with little space he had run around everyone.

And setting up the try for 36 in that final

Why 50 players? I get casting the net wide but this indicates a consistent lack of an idea who the RWC squad will be at such a late stage and a complete lack of an idea on a starting 23; more than half the players in this initial squad will not be anywhere near the starting bench.

I would guess that the 50 players is to

A) provide backup for injuries
B) keep some of the established names honest in competing for their place. There isn't normally a 3 month period during which players already know they've been selected.
C) give experience of a national environment to some of those players who are prospects for the future. Itoje, Burgess, LCD etc.

I'd hazard a guess and say that Lancaster probably already knows 90% of his squad if fit, and only has a few players realistically in mind competing for the last spots.

Gwlad wrote:Why 50 players? I get casting the net wide but this indicates a consistent lack of an idea who the RWC squad will be at such a late stage and a complete lack of an idea on a starting 23; more than half the players in this initial squad will not be anywhere near the starting bench.

I'd do that maths again. If more than half of the 50 players won't be anywhere near the starting bench, then that actually means they have a very clear idea of what the starting 23 is indeed.

thomh wrote:I would guess that the 50 players is to

A) provide backup for injuries
B) keep some of the established names honest in competing for their place. There isn't normally a 3 month period during which players already know they've been selected.
C) give experience of a national environment to some of those players who are prospects for the future. Itoje, Burgess, LCD etc.

I'd hazard a guess and say that Lancaster probably already knows 90% of his squad if fit, and only has a few players realistically in mind competing for the last spots.

First reason for 50 is that supposedly IRBRW have asked for 50 man provisional squads - maybe for marketing purposes, maybe OOC drug testing?

And in addition to your excellent points:

Then for such a long period of training you would quite like to have two full match day squads.

Finally if you have an injury to one of the main squad, this way the replacement will not be coming in fresh. They will be up to speed with all the drills etc.

Gwlads becoming as obsessed with England as Grey Ghost. Wondewhen he ll start supporting NZ?

thomh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Why 50 players? I get casting the net wide but this indicates a consistent lack of an idea who the RWC squad will be at such a late stage and a complete lack of an idea on a starting 23; more than half the players in this initial squad will not be anywhere near the starting bench.

I'd do that maths again. If more than half of the 50 players won't be anywhere near the starting bench, then that actually means they have a very clear idea of what the starting 23 is indeed.

Really. They have drafted 50. More than half, that is 25, won't be anywhere near the starting bench of 23 yet you think that means that they have a very clear idea of what the starting 23 is now?

Gatland is supposed to be naming a 45 man squad so not great deal of difference there.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Gatland is supposed to be naming a 45 man squad so not great deal of difference there.

It wasn't actually a comparison i was making but since you have, it's clearly entirely different as less than half of the training squad will be nowhere near the starting bench.

You should change your name to Switzerlandwelsh methinks.

Gwlad wrote:

thomh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Why 50 players? I get casting the net wide but this indicates a consistent lack of an idea who the RWC squad will be at such a late stage and a complete lack of an idea on a starting 23; more than half the players in this initial squad will not be anywhere near the starting bench.

I'd do that maths again. If more than half of the 50 players won't be anywhere near the starting bench, then that actually means they have a very clear idea of what the starting 23 is indeed.

Really. They have drafted 50. More than half, that is 25, won't be anywhere near the starting bench of 23 yet you think that means that they have a very clear idea of what the starting 23 is now?

If exactly half (25) won't be ANYWHERE NEAR the 23 then that only leaves 25 players realistically competing for 23 spots. As it is you said more than half, so it's even more clear. Seems quite settled to me.


If those 25 players were VERY NEAR the 23 then I'd agree it made selection less clear.

thomh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

thomh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Why 50 players? I get casting the net wide but this indicates a consistent lack of an idea who the RWC squad will be at such a late stage and a complete lack of an idea on a starting 23; more than half the players in this initial squad will not be anywhere near the starting bench.

I'd do that maths again. If more than half of the 50 players won't be anywhere near the starting bench, then that actually means they have a very clear idea of what the starting 23 is indeed.

Really. They have drafted 50. More than half, that is 25, won't be anywhere near the starting bench of 23 yet you think that means that they have a very clear idea of what the starting 23 is now?

If exactly half (25) won't be ANYWHERE NEAR the 23 then that only leaves 25 players realistically competing for 23 spots. As it is you said more than half, so it's even more clear. Seems quite settled to me.


If those 25 players were VERY NEAR the 23 then I'd agree it made selection less clear.

It would only make it clear IF YOU KNEW WHO THOSE 27 WERE (50-23=27)

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Gatland is supposed to be naming a 45 man squad so not great deal of difference there.

It wasn't actually a comparison i was making but since you have, it's clearly entirely different as less than half of the training squad will be nowhere near the starting bench.  

You should change your name to Switzerlandwelsh methinks.  

Just can't see point in bating, goading Wumming, by anyone. We can all be awkward for sake of it but much more fun doing it to a real face rather than a faceless user on the web.

I think nearly all Gatlands squad is already picked so why a 45 man squad as there will be less than half a dozen places up for grabs I reckon.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Gatland is supposed to be naming a 45 man squad so not great deal of difference there.

It wasn't actually a comparison i was making but since you have, it's clearly entirely different as less than half of the training squad will be nowhere near the starting bench.  

You should change your name to Switzerlandwelsh methinks.  

Just can't see point in bating, goading Wumming, by anyone.  We can all be awkward for sake of it but much more fun doing it to a real face rather than a faceless user on the web.

I think nearly all Gatlands squad is already picked so why a 45 man squad as there will be less than half a dozen places up for grabs I reckon.

Baiting? Goading? Hardly, ffs people have such thin skin these days.

How about just criticizing or questioning decisions instead of being constantly Swiss about everything. Of course if you question ANYTHING about English management and performance you get the WUM tag whereas the truth is that Stewie, with the worlds greatest rugby resources, has been treading water for what, 4 years now and has not taken England anywhere despite the opportunity to win silverware every season. Additionally he has not sorted out the mess at centre, has tried far too many players and then tried some more when his quick fixes haven't worked. Burgess next right?

Seems to me that as a critical observer some posters on here almost think they need to give their permission or blessing to anyone posting anything that is not positive about England. People need to grow a pair.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Gwlads becoming as obsessed with England as Grey Ghost. Wondewhen he ll start supporting NZ?

And like GG decides to ignore any post that tries to explain and just goes on the offensive, getting more and more aggressive. Assuming he can read, he now knows the answers to his baitingquestions

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Gwlads becoming as obsessed with England as Grey Ghost. Wondewhen he ll start supporting NZ?

And like GG decides to ignore any post that tries to explain and just goes on the offensive, getting more and more aggressive. Assuming he can read, he now knows the answers to his baitingquestions

Unbelievable. I rest my case.

And your retort about 'assuming he can read'…that of course is acceptable.

No Francis? Reports are stating that he is to be named in the Wales squad (again). I hope he cap him this time, behind Lee he will be our only decent option at TH.