Ulster 2015/2016

First topic message reminder :

Thought i would give ol' GC a helping hand and try and get Ulster types looking inward at what has been a tricky season and looking forward to next season and how we should improve. Dont have time to put down all my own theories but will do so later. This thread is a matawalu free zone btw!

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Another Try for Embra. This is woeful from Ulster. defence a shambles.

Ulster put up that they scored a try through Trimble, not Edinburgh, 17-10 according to their twitter?

Yes, Ulster scored after that.

But it was 17-5 at half-time...

I know, Notch. I was late in making my comment, although it was before Trimbles Try.

So 23 - 10 to Embra.

What's with the Embra fan singing 'Nacho man'?

Hahaha I didn't hear that.

I wanna be... a Nacho man! So you guys saw the game; what were the positives and the negatives?

Start ye off

Positives; Trimble and Bowe both scored
Negatives; at least one, maybe both, won't be around until after the RWC

BelfastDickVet wrote:Hahaha I didn't hear that.

He was close to whoever was providing the feed. I was just wondering if it was in reference to an Embra player, or a cheeky swipe at an Ulster player

Is that the first time Embra have played there, BDV? Good idea to get these games out into the communities when possible.

I think they play some preseason friendlies there every year as the crowd will be fairly small, and 200 people would just be ridiculous in murryfield. I believe they were in talks about playing some matches at Ibrox possibly, or one of the football stadiums, but they are still fairly big stadiums.

Notch wrote:I wanna be... a Nacho man! So you guys saw the game; what were the positives and the negatives?

Start ye off

Positives; Trimble and Bowe both scored
Negatives; at least one, maybe both, won't be around until after the RWC

The feed was very blurry, Notch. I really couldn't make out much of what was happening. The only clear bits were those close to the camera. Still interesting though to get my first experience of Periscope. Snuggled in as it was amongst the Embra fans.

Also this stadium is a pain in the arse to get to, at least murryfield is accessible and has decent parking. The fiends didn't even put on student discounts, usually it's £10 for a pro12 ticket, a burger and a pint, I had to pay £15 for tonight's entertainment alone, and no pints because I had to drive.

BelfastDickVet wrote:I think they play some preseason friendlies there every year as the crowd will be fairly small, and 200 people would just be ridiculous in murryfield. I believe they were in talks about playing some matches at Ibrox possibly, or one of the football stadiums, but they are still fairly big stadiums.

Thanks, BDV. Yes, Ibrox wouldn't be a good idea, but getting the games out to those who wouldn't usually watch the game is a good idea, I think. The atmosphere seemed lively enough anyway.

BelfastDickVet wrote:Also this stadium is a pain in the arse to get to, at least murryfield is accessible and has decent parking. The fiends didn't even put on student discounts, usually it's £10 for a pro12 ticket, a burger and a pint, I had to pay £15 for tonight's entertainment alone, and no pints because I had to drive.

Is the stadium at the edge of an estate?

BelfastDickVet wrote:I think they play some preseason friendlies there every year as the crowd will be fairly small, and 200 people would just be ridiculous in murryfield. I believe they were in talks about playing some matches at Ibrox possibly, or one of the football stadiums, but they are still fairly big stadiums.

They are looking in to play a few games at Easter Road, Hibs home ground, with a view to it becoming a regular thing if it works out

Munchkin wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:Also this stadium is a pain in the arse to get to, at least murryfield is accessible and has decent parking. The fiends didn't even put on student discounts, usually it's £10 for a pro12 ticket, a burger and a pint, I had to pay £15 for tonight's entertainment alone, and no pints because I had to drive.

Is the stadium at the edge of an estate?

No it's over in the old town, in Herriot's RFC, very posh by all accounts. It was a decent set up, would put you in mind of a lot of GAA county club facilities, decent single stand and terrace. I reckon it would probably fit the usual Edinburgh crowd. The pitch looked in really good nick actually.

marty2086 wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:I think they play some preseason friendlies there every year as the crowd will be fairly small, and 200 people would just be ridiculous in murryfield. I believe they were in talks about playing some matches at Ibrox possibly, or one of the football stadiums, but they are still fairly big stadiums.

They are looking in to play a few games at Easter Road, Hibs home ground, with a view to it becoming a regular thing if it works out

That was it! If I am honest I like heading to murryfield for the Edinburgh games, they set it up so you can stand pitch side or sit if you want.

Who got injured to push paul Marshall to 10? Windsor?

So who played well and who didn't? From the sounds of things, it was another example of the forwards getting bested and our backs doing what they can. What is the point in having a talented back-line with absolutely no quality ball to work with?

I hope this isn't the story of the season.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So who played well and who didn't? From the sounds of things, it was another example of the forwards getting bested and our backs doing what they can. What is the point in having a talented back-line with absolutely no quality ball to work with?

I hope this isn't the story of the season.

Don't worry, the powers that be have taken a good hard look at the weaknesses in our squad and decided to spunk a huge chunk of next seasons wage budget on a marquee fullback!

BelfastDickVet wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:Also this stadium is a pain in the arse to get to, at least murryfield is accessible and has decent parking. The fiends didn't even put on student discounts, usually it's £10 for a pro12 ticket, a burger and a pint, I had to pay £15 for tonight's entertainment alone, and no pints because I had to drive.

Is the stadium at the edge of an estate?

No it's over in the old town, in Herriot's RFC, very posh by all accounts. It was a decent set up, would put you in mind of a lot of GAA county club facilities, decent single stand and terrace. I reckon it would probably fit the usual Edinburgh crowd. The pitch looked in really good nick actually.

Very nice. I noticed a few buildings on the outside, but with the blurry feed I couldn't really tell what they were. Sounds like a lovely place to go for a game. Pity about the awkwardness of getting there though.

Notch wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So who played well and who didn't? From the sounds of things, it was another example of the forwards getting bested and our backs doing what they can. What is the point in having a talented back-line with absolutely no quality ball to work with?

I hope this isn't the story of the season.

Don't worry, the powers that be have taken a good hard look at the weaknesses in our squad and decided to spunk a huge chunk of next seasons wage budget on a marquee fullback!

Don't even joke about that, Notch

I was thinking while watching the Periscope feed that it might be a great idea for the club, or anyone, to set something like that up for games that aren't televised. The Periscope feed made for poor viewing, but I'm sure it wouldn't take much to improve on it. It isn't as though there isn't the interest there.

clivemcl wrote:Who got injured to push paul Marshall to 10? Windsor?

Apparently iHumph did his hamstring in the warm-up, so Windsor started.

I've got a bad feeling about this season.

Well it isn't starting well with the injuries already mounting up. What on earth are they doing with the players just before games? Ludik and Wilson both pulled out last week, an hour before the game. Haven't heard anything since, so hoping it's nothing too serious, and they will be playing v Ospreys.

If we could just get Wilson back, a back-row of him, Diack and Faloon is fine. Or Browne at six, maybe?

We're in danger of becoming pre-Cheika Leinster.

Is Johann nor bored on his farm yet? Throw a bucket-load of cash at him, get him back to replace Clarke.

Don Alfonso wrote:If we could just get Wilson back, a back-row of him, Diack and Faloon is fine. Or Browne at six, maybe?

We're in danger of becoming pre-Cheika Leinster.

If the friendlies are a real measure of where we are in defence, we will really need Wilson back. A back row of Ross, Reidy and Diack is something we don't want. I didn't notice Browne playing last night, if he came on. Players were just a blur for the most part. Has Browne played at 6 before? I know he's a Lock who can play at 8. Other than that I don't know anything about him. If we can get Wilson back, we might have a fairly decent team v Ospreys.

I now know Ludik got some game time off the bench, but I didn't notice him either He really is a great player for us.

Don Alfonso wrote:Is Johann nor bored on his farm yet? Throw a bucket-load of cash at him, get him back to replace Clarke.

If only! What a boost to Ulster if Muller returned as a coach. I can but dream

Piatau left out of NZ world cup squad - interesting.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piatau left out of NZ world cup squad - interesting.

I honestly believe that there is something to the conspiracy theory that if it's a 50:50 (ish) between 2 players, the player who has elected to stay in the country will be preferred. Am hearing some quite strong chat that this is why Horwill was left out of the Wallabies squad.

Maybe the IRFU will allow us to play him this season? I don't think they will, but it would be a huge bonus.

George Carlin wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piatau left out of NZ world cup squad - interesting.

I honestly believe that there is something to the conspiracy theory that if it's a 50:50 (ish) between 2 players, the player who has elected to stay in the country will be preferred. Am hearing some quite strong chat that this is why Horwill was left out of the Wallabies squad.

If that was true then surely Slade wouldn't be going and Sopoaga would be?

Looks like Ulster will have the likes of Ludik, Gilroy, Trimble, Luke Marshall, McCloskey, Olding to choose from during the world cup.

That certainly trumps any other pro12 backline (even with ian humphries added).

All will be wasted though if our backrow cannot perform.

P.S. Massive congrats to our Darren! Have to say Schmidt has made the wrong call on Trimble though.

Not sure when Olding is due back Clive..?
I haven't seen any of the pre-season. I thought he isn't due back for another few months - hope you're right though....
Is it possible we see Luke covering (playing) 10 at some stage over the next few weeks?

He was doing this 2 weeks ago, so I'm hopeful he will be back before world cup ends. Although... I'm no physio.

https://instagram.com/p/6Va2I0SQzE/

clivemcl wrote:Looks like Ulster will have the likes of Ludik, Gilroy, Trimble, Luke Marshall, McCloskey, Olding to choose from during the world cup.

That certainly trumps any other pro12 backline (even with ian humphries added).

All will be wasted though if our backrow cannot perform.

P.S. Massive congrats to our Darren! Have to say Schmidt has made the wrong call on Trimble though.

It seems Trimbles tow injury flared up after the Edinburgh game so probably left out due to that. I can't think of any other reason Schmidt wouldn't have had him on the squad.

I have to say, the attitude of Trimble in this interview has really perked me up as an Ulster supporter. And I'm sure his the squad is going to really benefit from him being around the club rather than at the WC. Not just because of his performances, but because of his attitude and passion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5YHu2xiMLU

I'm now feeling oddly confident that with a backrow of Wilson, Diack and (a driven, level headed) Williams, added to the rest of our very good remaining squad - we should probably be looking to win every game during the World Cup. And a few more bonus points to boot!

SUFTUM!

clivemcl wrote:
I'm now feeling oddly confident that with a backrow of Wilson, Diack and (a driven, level headed) Williams, added to the rest of our very good remaining squad - we should probably be looking to win every game during the World Cup. And a few more bonus points to boot!

I'd hardly say that clive he lost his head a few times against the Ospreys

I wasn't saying he IS, more hoping what might be possible if he COULD BE 'level headed'.

clivemcl wrote:I wasn't saying he IS, more hoping what might be possible if he COULD BE 'level headed'.

With his ban and getting married in the summer we can hope he's learned a few lessons

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34207113

Piutau off to Wasps for 6 months before joining you guys

I'm not sure it should.... but this sickens me a little.

BamBam wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34207113

Piutau off to Wasps for 6 months before joining you guys

That is absolute madness. Was there really no way that you could have left a faaaarigner* spot open until you knew he had been selected?

*

George Carlin wrote:

BamBam wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34207113

Piutau off to Wasps for 6 months before joining you guys

That is absolute madness. Was there really no way that you could have left a faaaarigner* spot open until you knew he had been selected?

*

We didn't sign any foreigners this summer George. All the foreign spots are existing contracts.

Surely it wasn't in the IRFUs best interests to stick to the rules on this? Just who exactly would be held back in their irish international aspirations if we were allowed Piatau this year?

Also, maddeningly - Ludik is only taking up an NIQ contract, but technically he is a project. ALl the IRFU would have had to do was say "You know what, we will allow you to have two projects for one year"

Would that be so bad for Irish rugby's future??

George Carlin wrote:

BamBam wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34207113

Piutau off to Wasps for 6 months before joining you guys

That is absolute madness. Was there really no way that you could have left a faaaarigner* spot open until you knew he had been selected?

*

He has/had a contract until next summer so there was no need to leave one open, the only reason hes going to Wasps is because the NZRU have hung him out to dry to use his as a lesson to anyone else thinking of going abroad

They don't want him taking up someone elses place who can work their way into the ABs, a contrast to allowing Carter et al to do the same

The rules could easily have been flexed a little on this, it seems to work OK for them for injury covers etc so why not this one unique case. What happens if he falls in love with life at Wasps and has a get out clause etc etc. Damn it IRFU we could have had Charlie boy in an Ulster top sooner rather than later

Did Nelson do well enough on Friday night for the Ulster coaches to sit up and think?

He's young still, Humph could be on his last season, and Windsor may not be fantastic. Is there any likelihood of Nelson switching to 10?

Nelson at least deserves a run at 10 to see how he goes and lay down a challenge to Humph and Windsor to earn the spot

George Carlin wrote:

BamBam wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34207113

Piutau off to Wasps for 6 months before joining you guys

That is absolute madness. Was there really no way that you could have left a faaaarigner* spot open until you knew he had been selected?

*

In a word, no. Not unless we paid someone out of their contract. And it would have been the wrong decision. Tbh he's not needed this season. The money spent getting him here early would be better spent elsewhere... however I am in the camp that thinks the money spent on him in general could be better used elsewhere.

If we we're allowed to move Payne back to 15 for the big names I reckon we could get by without any NIQ backs this season and next, and we could invest the money in big names for our pack. You've got Payne who can move back to 15, we saw the extended skill set Peter Nelson has when he came in at 10, Olding and Gilroy can play 15 too, Bowe and Trimble still have a bit left in the tank although not overly long, there are classy centres coming out of our ears. And we pay top dollar to strengthen our back line while talking about Clive Ross and Sean Reidy as potential cover for our back row in the Heineken Cup. We've been turning away talented players like Tommy Seymour and Chris Farrell because we have no room for them in the backs and scouring Australian and NZ regional-level competitions for flankers with Irish grannies and this is where we choose our marquee signing?

Thats absolute madness, Jeff.

I disagree that it's absolute madness, Jeff!

Ulster have one decent standard full back for one position. Piutau is better than Ludik so the team is improved.

Ulster have four decent standard backrows plus Williams who can be good but is NIQ. They also brought back Faloon who arguably is as good a backrow as whoever Ludik's understudy is. Until Williams contract is up there won't be any more NIQ backrows. While I would like to see far better quality there, there is actually more quality cover for the backrow than at fullback.

Thats a pretty disingenuous statement. Here's a list of the players we have in the squad besides Ludik who can/have played fullback; Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy, Peter Nelson. Thats some quality cover in my opinion. If Ludik left tomorrow I think we could cover that position until the end of the season, no worries.

I would argue that Jared Payne is better than Ludik, Peter Nelson, Craig Gilroy and Stuart Olding are most certainly better fullbacks than Reidy, Ross, Taggart etc. are back rows and probably better than Faloon is as a back row, if not at least as good. I think there's more mileage in Trimble and Bowes respective tanks than there is in Roger Wilsons.

Where the IRFU demands we play Henderson and Payne is crucial. For Ireland, they are considered as being a lock and a centre respectively. We have great depth in both positions with Peter Browne looking decent early on and Alan O'Connor coming through behind Franco and Tuohy, centre depth is well documented. Our need is greatest in the back row and at fullback. If we are not allowed to move Payne back thats one thing, but after the RWC guys like Marhsall, Olding and McCloskey will be pushing Henshaw out to 13 lessening the need for him to play there all the time whereas Henderson will remain essential to replacing O'Connell. I still anticipate Ireland will need Payne as a centre for a while longer, but surely the IRFU could have been persuaded to give us a little leeway there and save 350k a year.

We can probably put out a team without an NIQ lock in the near future with O'Connor coming through plus Tuohy, Browne and Stevenson (and Henderson now looking like O'Connells partner for the RWC). We all anticipate that that is where the cut will come.

My issue is getting a marquee back row to replace Williams and retaining Ludik, who is a very good player surrounded by other very good players in a back line with great strength in depth, would be a much better use of resources than cutting Ludik, bringing in a very expensive fullback and then trying to find a decent replacement for Williams on a Ludik-sized salary.

It's been so long since I thought about this - so I may be wrong...

We are still though only assuming that we will have only one marquee signing?

Don't forget about the reduction of NIQ spots. We have one less NIQ contract to renew - and that money is free to be added on to wherever we like.

It is feasible that next summer Ulster will:

a) swap Ludik for Piatau
b) also swap VDM AND Williams for a marquee number 8.

Is it not?

Why are we so quick to assume that Ulster rugby who are in the business of running a sports club are unable to see what we see as painful obvious.

Maybe they are well aware. Maybe they have a plan.

Don't forget - we weren't supposed to know about Piatau. There could be somebody else that the media haven't managed to uncover yet.

Maybe, but two signings on that kind of money PLUS Ruan Pienaar- the impression I get is that we are doing very nicely as a business and are well in the black but we're not Toulon. Someone, somewhere, is definitely leaving to free up the budget. Or maybe some of our bright young things are getting upgraded to central contracts. Or Rory McIlroy has heard the urban legend that he's paying for these boys and thought it sounds like a jolly good idea.

I would be stunned if we could afford three marquee NIQ players at that level.