Ulster 2015/2016

First topic message reminder :

Thought i would give ol' GC a helping hand and try and get Ulster types looking inward at what has been a tricky season and looking forward to next season and how we should improve. Dont have time to put down all my own theories but will do so later. This thread is a matawalu free zone btw!

I wonder would Isaac Boss come back?

rodders wrote:I wonder would Isaac Boss come back?

What would be the point signing a 35 year when we have a 31 year and a 30 year both committed to play for the province until they retire
The 31 year old is so superior he is out of sight and the 30 year is a very different player but as good imo

Anyone else just hear a loud whooshing sound? Sounded like a joke flying over someones head

Notch wrote:Anyone else just hear a loud whooshing sound? Sounded like a joke flying over someones head

Warwick is fit to play again:

Ulster A team and replacements to face Bedford Blues, British & Irish Cup, Goldington Road, Saturday 21st November, 2.30pm:
(15-9): J McPhillips; R Scholes, S Arnold, L Marshall, R Lyttle; S Windsor, D Shanahan;
(1-8): A Warwick, J Andrew, J Simpson, L Stevenson, P Browne, C Ross, W Faloon (capt), S Reidy;
Replacements (16-22): J Murphy, R Murphy, B Ross, A O'Connor, S Mulholland, P Rowley, C Patterson.

That's a fairly strong team for the A's. interesting that Simpson starts, and O'Connor is on the bench, as is Mulholland.

No simely attached means it doesn't qualify as a joke

That A team is pretty good - delighted Simpson given another chance, Warwick back, Marshall and Arnold in the centre and Shanahan preferred to Rowley - all good news

geoff999rugby wrote:No simely attached means it doesn't qualify as a joke

Sorry Geoff, it's a friday .

After the poor performances v the Provinces, I have real hopes that the A's can kick on and give a good account of themselves now. The better they perform, the better it is for the senior side.
Apparently Simpson played well last week, and I'm hoping he is a genuine prospect. O'Connor looked a real prospect last season, but seems to have fallen off a bit. Lack of game time for the senior side? Hopefully he can push through. A bit of dog about him.

I think he will get game time now Kiss is here.

Both the first XV and the A selection have the look of Kiss being involved.
As he has said I am going to be hands on big time.
Codling is good news as well

I believe Henderson would be in the 2nd row and Wilson would be playing 6 if Doak/Clarke had picked the team.
Doak/Clarke would never have given Herbst and Black the kick up the arse they got last week by being dropped
I also believe Ross would be TH not Simpson for the 'A' team if they were making the call.

It seems to me that to Kiss reputations mean very little and that form counts - both are a change from the Doak/Clarke set up

But weird O'Connor is on the bench behind Stevenson and Browne... I mean, we're not talking Matfield and Botha he has to displace here. I thought he would be kicking on- especially after I heard he played well last week.

Pienaar


"If Ulster thought I was still good enough and wanted to extend my contract I would consider it," said Pienaar.


"I would need to feel I was still playing well and adding value."

Pienaar said he had enjoyed his five years in Belfast and that he and his family were happy in Northern Ireland.

"I do not regret turning down Toulon. Staying with Ulster was a decision I made with my heart," he added.

"I didn't want to break something that was special to me.

"It might have been nice playing with some of the world's best players at Toulon but Ulster was somewhere I felt I really needed to be at this stage of my career."

Ruan we want to extend your contract, your good enough and yo uadd value.
Great he is talking now.
I can see another year being added on, before the end of the season, which would take him to 2018.

Geoff, hes better than the alternatives but his form has dropped well below his usual standard and looks like he could do with a holiday.

Is there any word on his SA future?

He is not as good but still a country mile better than anyone else in Ireland other than Murray

I would be very surprised if his SA days are not over.
Playing in the NH I don't believe he will play next years Rugby Championship which makes him even more attractive as he will get summer rests and be available in November.

SA, like a lot of teams, will be looking to replace the old with the new next summer

International retirement would do him the world of good! But surely he would have made that call himself by now if it were how he felt.

He obviously still wants to be throwing his hat in the ring.

I do feel that Ulster would be served a lot better if Pienaar had no international duty.

Here... Piutau looks so good! Can somebody reassure me that he has no way out of his contract with us??? Please??

He hasn't been the same since his knee injury a few years ago and after seeing Marmion sign a new deal yesterday Im surprised that Ulsters name wasn't mentioned in connection with him beside Cardiff and Leinster

clivemcl wrote:International retirement would do him the world of good! But surely he would have made that call himself by now if it were how he felt.

He obviously still wants to be throwing his hat in the ring.

I do feel that Ulster would be served a lot better if Pienaar had no international duty.

Here... Piutau looks so good! Can somebody reassure me that he has no way out of his contract with us??? Please??

You are echoing my very thoughts Clive on both players.

I would dearly love to see Ruan pen another deal, a farewell to rugby deal, the man is pure class both on and off the pitch. His decision to stay with Ulster instead of chasing the big bucks in France show just how classy.

I'd be gutted if Piutau didn't appear at Ravers. He fits so very well into the Wasps squad and their style of game that it's worrying indeed. I would like to see him honour what he's signed to but couldn't exactly blame him if he decided to stay with a side playing the kind of rugby that Wasps are currently.

P.S. Is Ulster not getting involved in the superhero weekend?

Clive he may well want to keep his hat in the ring I just think the decision will be made for him and he will not be selected for the Rugby Championship

Piatau has signed a deal simple as - it would cost someone a lot of money to buy him out of it

geoff999rugby wrote:

"It might have been nice playing with some of the world's best players at Toulon but Ulster was somewhere I felt I really needed to be at this stage of my career."

Wow talk about a backhanded compliment... If I was iHumph I'd be pulling him up on that one!

rodders wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

"It might have been nice playing with some of the world's best players at Toulon  but Ulster was somewhere I felt I really needed to be at this stage of my career."

Wow talk about a backhanded compliment... If I was iHumph I'd be pulling him up on that one!

Especially given now he's learned to turn the ball over, you wouldn't get Quade Cooper doing that

rodders wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

"It might have been nice playing with some of the world's best players at Toulon  but Ulster was somewhere I felt I really needed to be at this stage of my career."

Wow talk about a backhanded compliment... If I was iHumph I'd be pulling him up on that one!

If I was Pienaer and iHumph pulled me on that I'd tell iHumph to go and do one

geoff999rugby wrote:

rodders wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

"It might have been nice playing with some of the world's best players at Toulon  but Ulster was somewhere I felt I really needed to be at this stage of my career."

Wow talk about a backhanded compliment... If I was iHumph I'd be pulling him up on that one!

If I was Pienaer and iHumph pulled me on that I'd tell iHumph to go and do one  

I'd just tell him to F@$k Orf squirt

As I would I but Ruan is a true gent

(15-9): Peter Nelson, Andrew Trimble, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey, Craig Gilroy, Paddy Jackson, Ruan Pienaar; (1-8): Kyle McCall, Rory Best (captain), Wiehahn Herbst, Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Robbie Diack, Sean Reidy, Nick Williams;
Replacements (16-23): Rob Herring, Andrew Warwick, Ricky Lutton, Roger Wilson, Chris Henry, Paul Marshall, Ian Humphreys, Louis Ludik.

Is Ludik fit? If so surprised Nelson is getting the nod to start.

Looking a bit light on the second row cover there.

Luidik has been very ordinary recently.

Nelson has a better boot - he can hit it further.

In fact Ludik's kicking has been appalling - although he is hardly alone in that regard.

Diack is covering 2nd row if required - guessing de Merwe if injured/rested.

Best has signed on for another two years

So taking the discussion away from the match thread... I have a question. Our obvious lack of creativity and threat. .. is it players underperforming, or nor good enough players on field, or is it the game plan they are being asked to play?

There was a bit more variety in Ulsters play tonight than than has been but Pienaar cost us a few times when he was slow getting to the ruck, Leinster were able to slow us and kick the ball out. We looked more dangerous when when we had quick ball, when it slows down we just seem to go through the phases and not having a plan when we're doing it.

Our scrum has barely taken a step forward all season, especially when Herbst is on. Thats not a great platform to build from.

Pienaar had one of those games when he is slow to react. He was at fault for us being turned over, but not alone. We were slow to the ruck a few times, and one of those times we were pressing to get over their line. The forwards are at fault for that, and that's criminal.

The forwards that stood out today were Best, Tuohy, Williams and McCall. Lutton wasn't bad when he came on either. The rest were 'meh'.

Can't really blame the Backs, considering the service they were getting. The pack rarely gave them the platform to attack.

Marshall did inject a bit of pace when running at a tired defence. Too little, too late, and if we had have crossed the line it would have been a steal.

Munchkin wrote:Pienaar had one of those games when he is slow to react. He was at fault for us being turned over, but not alone. We were slow to the ruck a few times, and one of those times we were pressing to get over their line. The forwards are at fault for that, and that's criminal.

The forwards that stood out today were Best, Tuohy, Williams and McCall. Lutton wasn't bad when he came on either. The rest were 'meh'.

Can't really blame the Backs, considering the service they were getting. The pack rarely gave them the platform to attack.

Marshall did inject a bit of pace when running at a tired defence. Too little, too late, and if we had have crossed the line it would have been a steal.

I thought Tuohy was very definitely in the meh camp. Agree on Best, McCall and Williams has been Ulster's best player so far this season.

Pienaar has been playing solid rugby without break since the start of 2010 (apart from injury), and it's taking its toll. Paul Marshall has been playing better than him this season so far, and has probably earned the start.

Darren Cave continues to be underwhelming, but with Payne, Marshall and Olding out the options are limited. I'd be tempted to give Ludik another go there.

Ulster are in desparate need of some ballast in the pack. Our props are journeymen, Tuohy, Wilson and Williams are all on the decline, Van Der Merwe is a good lineout technician but he offers nothing around the park. Diack and co are honest players but they will never be world beaters. The Ulster pack is crying out for a big name signing.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Pienaar had one of those games when he is slow to react. He was at fault for us being turned over, but not alone. We were slow to the ruck a few times, and one of those times we were pressing to get over their line. The forwards are at fault for that, and that's criminal.

The forwards that stood out today were Best, Tuohy, Williams and McCall. Lutton wasn't bad when he came on either. The rest were 'meh'.

Can't really blame the Backs, considering the service they were getting. The pack rarely gave them the platform to attack.

Marshall did inject a bit of pace when running at a tired defence. Too little, too late, and if we had have crossed the line it would have been a steal.

I thought Tuohy was very definitely in the meh camp. Agree on Best, McCall and Williams has been Ulster's best player so far this season.

Pienaar has been playing solid rugby without break since the start of 2010 (apart from injury), and it's taking its toll. Paul Marshall has been playing better than him this season so far, and has probably earned the start.

Darren Cave continues to be underwhelming, but with Payne, Marshall and Olding out the options are limited. I'd be tempted to give Ludik another go there.

Tuohy wasn't at his best, but I don't think he was 'meh'. The reason I think he stood out was because he showed signs of returning to some form last night. He was definitely much more aggressive than he has been, and looking like he was interested.
Agree on Marshall. Give him the start, and if Pienaar is fatigued it will allow him some needed rest.
Nelson is the better 15 now. He offers more than Ludik. Ludik isn't ahead of Cave at centre, but maybe worth giving him another run there.

That is one thing that needs to be mentioned - Peter Nelson is really starting to look very composed at fullback. He seems to be gaining a lot of confidence, and I think with time he will start to show his attacking instincts more. I also think he would link up with the likes of Payne, Olding and Jackson extremely well.

At the end of the day though our backline has never been the issue. I still maintain that we have one of the best backlines in Europe. The problem is that without a pack, they will never threaten the opposition line as much as they should and will always be on the back foot. I seriously question our foreign signing policy where we seem obsessed with signing quality backs at the cost of a below average pack. If anything, we have more talented youngsters coming through the ranks in the backs, and very few in the forwards.

At what point do we address this? It is clear that with a below average pack, we are never going to challenge in Europe again. Teams can win games with a very dominant pack and an average backline, but rarely does it happen the other way around.

I think it's three or four signings up front we need in truth. At the moment I'd say we need a really good tight head, a lock, a flanker and a number 8 to start with. I think only Best, Henderson and Henry are really good enough- and two of those are off form right now.

We'll get one, maybe two signings at most. As long as our Academy fails to deliver I really don't see how we're going to become competitive at the top level again. We've a chance each year if we can make the playoffs but forget about Europe.

I think we should be looking at replacing Herbst. He's a project player though, so I don't know how possible that is? I noted on the other forum that someone said he just needs to be coached to bring his feet forward a bit, in the scrum. If that was true it would have been sorted by now, I believe.
At lock we have Henderson and Tuohy. Tuohy has fallen off form, but in that game he showed signs of improvement. If he can continue to improve I think we will be ok there. We know he is more than capable when on top form. O'Connor needs to be given game time now also.

The backrow is our biggest concern, and I think our best player there this season, Williams, will be moving on. I think it's the right call as long as we have a proven test class player taking his place. Neither Diack or Wilson are good enough, and if I had a choice of replacing either a lock or another backrow, I would opt for another backrow, even if that has to mean letting Piutau go....

It isn't all doom and gloom. McCall is showing promise. We still have O'Connor to bring in from the cold. Simpson is also showing promise, although he is yet to play for the senior side. We have Olding and Payne to return from injury. There are strong rumours that we have signed two very good forwards.
It will take time for Kiss to get to grips with this side, and he needs to be given as long as it takes. Personally, I think it will be a couple of seasons before we can challenge in Europe, at least, although we should be aiming to get out of the groups. Hopefully Kiss will bring in a couple of coaches at the end of this season.

Notch wrote:I think it's three or four signings up front we need in truth. At the moment I'd say we need a really good tight head, a lock, a flanker and a number 8 to start with. I think only Best, Henderson and Henry are really good enough- and two of those are off form right now.

We'll get one, maybe two signings at most. As long as our Academy fails to deliver I really don't see how we're going to become competitive at the top level again. We've a chance each year if we can make the playoffs but forget about Europe.

Pretty much sums it up.

Watching Connacht tonight basically showed everything we are missing. Hunger, intensity, cohesiveness... It was Interesting listening to Pat Lam talking about building a new culture in Connacht rugby.
Our culture seems to be predictability, not picking on form and lack of intensity and aggression
We have been on a downward trajectory since the McLaughlin sacking, which is incidentally when Lam was appointed at Connacht.

Hopefully Kiss is the answer, but I think he needs new help to provide intensity in the forwards and inventiveness in the backs. Time for Clarke and Doak to go.
I don't think our player resources are as bad as they seem, rather underperforming players continue to get picked and underperform. They need a kick up the arse and better coaching

We badly miss the influence of Johann Muller

My Letter to Santa
Please replace Clarke with Muller
Please replace Doak with anyone
A second row talisman
An aggressive and abrasive back row

https://www.606v2.com/t61435-ulster-rugby-v-edinburgh-rugby-4-december 

toml wrote:Watching Connacht tonight basically showed everything we are missing. Hunger, intensity, cohesiveness...

Add ball skills - the contrast between Connacht and the other provinces, especially us, was remarkable.

We should be tracking Ultan Dillane from Connacht. He's a young lock I rate highly. And Ultan means 'Ulsterman'. Its fate!

Notch wrote:We should be tracking Ultan Dillane from Connacht. He's a young lock I rate highly. And Ultan means 'Ulsterman'. Its fate!

Is Ultach not Ulsterman?

Also yes, but the name Ultan is derived from the same root. Means 'a man from Ulster'.

Is Ultach not Scots Gaelic?

Whats Bundiaki in Scots Gaelic? he looks like an Ulsterman too.

Pretty sure it means 'Made in Belfast'. We'll take him

That's my something new learned for today

Maybe you're right about it being fate

On future signings, Piutau last night on Rugby Tonight seemed genuinely content with his decision to come to Ulster, Wasps are sniffing around Halfpenny so maybe know that he won't be sticking around Coventry

Damn was out so I missed it, how'd he get on at the old smashometer?

rodders wrote:Damn was out so I missed it, how'd he get on at the old smashometer?

107 I think, beat Francois Louw who got 87