Ulster 2015/2016

by Standulstermen Sun 24 May 2015, 2:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

Thought i would give ol' GC a helping hand and try and get Ulster types looking inward at what has been a tricky season and looking forward to next season and how we should improve. Dont have time to put down all my own theories but will do so later. This thread is a matawalu free zone btw!

by Monkeyan Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:28 am

rodders wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Ulster have been monitoring about 250 school kids across the nine counties for several years and have them on individual improvement programmes rather than just a couple of dozen in the academy - if the talent was out there they'd know about it. McLaughlin was in charge of unearthing the wealth of talent you say is out there but presumably was not doing so and has had to go.

I have trouble believing that. I accept we, in theory, monitor players across 9 counties but in practise we are asked to believe that after such monitoring all our best players in the aged teams can be found from current or ex pupils from 5/6 schools.
Sorry but that is totally unbelievable.
In practise it is so much window dressing for the public - all the old bias and 'masonic' handshake mentalities remain.

You don't have to take my word for it just ask anyone at Ulster Rugby, or indeed any of the kids or parents who are involved in the programmes.

Yup Aukster is spot on.

The reason all the players come from 5/6 schools is because the gap is so big in coaching from the traditional rugby schools and non traditional which is what the above is trying to address but that will take years to bear fruition.

Also, a lot of boys at less rugby-focused schools move to/are poached by the bigger schools after 5th form, hence the concentration of talent within a relatively small group of schools.

We have a small number of schools for whom rugby is the main winter sport and which have invested heavily in facilities and coaching resources. That these schools produce a greater number of talented players (i.e., those who secure contracts within the UR academy) than those for whom rugby is not the main sport, is hardly surprising. Suggesting that is must be part of some old school tie conspiracy smacks of a chip on shoulder mentality.

by **rodders** Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:32 am

Monkeyan wrote: Suggesting that is must be part of some old school tie conspiracy smacks of a chip on shoulder mentality.

Well that said there has been cases where the academy have given places because the parents know the coaches ... but you'd expect this not to be widespread....or hope not....

by Monkeyan Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:39 am

rodders wrote:
Monkeyan wrote: Suggesting that is must be part of some old school tie conspiracy smacks of a chip on shoulder mentality.

Well that said there has been cases where the academy have given places because the parents know the coaches ... but you'd expect this not to be widespread....or hope not....

If that's true, it's unacceptable. However, are we really going to form a measured view of the academy set-up based on anecdotal suggestions of nepotism?

by **rodders** Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:45 am

Monkeyan wrote:
rodders wrote:
Monkeyan wrote: Suggesting that is must be part of some old school tie conspiracy smacks of a chip on shoulder mentality.

Well that said there has been cases where the academy have given places because the parents know the coaches ... but you'd expect this not to be widespread....or hope not....

If that's true, it's unacceptable. However, are we really going to form a measured view of the academy set-up based on anecdotal suggestions of nepotism?

Well it came directly from the coach so I believe it to be true. Would I judge the whole academy based on it - no but I think it is naive to think it doesn't happen.

by Monkeyan Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:54 am

rodders wrote:
Monkeyan wrote:
rodders wrote:
Monkeyan wrote: Suggesting that is must be part of some old school tie conspiracy smacks of a chip on shoulder mentality.

Well that said there has been cases where the academy have given places because the parents know the coaches ... but you'd expect this not to be widespread....or hope not....

If that's true, it's unacceptable. However, are we really going to form a measured view of the academy set-up based on anecdotal suggestions of nepotism?

Well it came directly from the coach so I believe it to be true. Would I judge the whole academy based on it - no but I think it is naive to think it doesn't happen.

I don't disagree, but surely the same issue must also present itself at Leinster, where Terenure alumnus Girvan Dempsey is in charge of the academy set-up?

The key question I guess we're all trying to answer is why Leinster and to an extent Munster are making better use of their resources than we are.

by **rodders** Mon 26 Oct 2015, 12:32 pm

Do they though, or do they just have more resources to choose from?

by clivemcl Mon 26 Oct 2015, 12:37 pm

Up north rugby doesn't have a many sports competing with it as the south though does it? We should have the advantage in that respect.

How much of a problem is it in the north that rugby is still seen as a protestant sport. Or should I say... catholics are more intent on sticking to the sports that reflect their 'identity' and 'culture'.

by **rodders** Mon 26 Oct 2015, 12:44 pm

clivemcl wrote:Up north rugby doesn't have a many sports competing with it as the south though does it? We should have the advantage in that respect.

How much of a problem is it in the north that rugby is still seen as a protestant sport. Or should I say... catholics are more intent on sticking to the sports that reflect their 'identity' and 'culture'.

Why what sports do they play in the south that aren't in the north?

Not sure that the second paragraph is true at all.

by clivemcl Mon 26 Oct 2015, 12:51 pm

I just assumed in the south that rugby was just one of many options, but that in the north it was an option that 'said something' for some people.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong!

by marty2086 Mon 26 Oct 2015, 1:46 pm

I think clive you do have a point in some respects. I grew up in West Belfast and while some do loosely follow the Ireland team there is more of a disconnect when it comes to Ulster.

Not only is it seen as a Protestant sport but also a middle class one

There are some schools who have only allowed football in the last decade because it was/is viewed as a foreign sport. It'll take a long time to catch up with rugby as you don't have the parents who go to games or follow it so it's not passed on.

At the same time how many rugby clubs are there in places like West Belfast? Whereas you have football clubs on every corner

by Monkeyan Mon 26 Oct 2015, 2:05 pm

clivemcl wrote:Up north rugby doesn't have a many sports competing with it as the south though does it? We should have the advantage in that respect.

How much of a problem is it in the north that rugby is still seen as a protestant sport. Or should I say... catholics are more intent on sticking to the sports that reflect their 'identity' and 'culture'.

As far as I'm aware the big rugby schools in Leinster (Blackrock, Terenure, etc.) also have GAA teams, whereas the big rugby schools up here don't, so in that regard we probably should have an advantage.

I don't agree with the notion that rugby is perceived as a protestant sport; I know plenty of guys who play for both their local rugby and GAA clubs.

by Guest Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:23 pm

Strong rumours that Ulster have completed two big signings, both forwards. As Piutau is also arriving, this will mean losing three of our NIQs. Ludik, Van der Merwe and Williams?

Hope it's true. Not just that it will go some way to adding real strength to the team, but also for the comedy value in seeing the reaction of LD, Chunky and Phil.

by marty2086 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:11 am

Williams interview on Friday night sounded like a man who didn't expect to be playing much longer

by clivemcl Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:28 am

marty2086 wrote:Williams interview on Friday night sounded like a man who didn't expect to be playing much longer

But also that it may be a motivating factor for him? I wouldn't object if he ends with a good swansong. He's been one of the better forwards so far. But still could be much better.

by Guest Tue 27 Oct 2015, 10:46 am

True, Williams probably wants to send the right message out to any prospective clubs. I would rather see Wilson go, than Williams, although he might not last beyond this season anyway. When is his contract up?

by marty2086 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 10:51 am

Wilsons signed until 2017 Doh

by Guest Tue 27 Oct 2015, 11:17 am

He could be sent packing if there's any more nonsense from him, but we seem stuck for a replacement, unless we find an IQ from somewhere.
If the rumour is true that would mean we get to keep to the present NIQ.

So, I think Kiss is at Ulster now. Probably too soon for him to make much of a difference v Munster, but hopefully he can turn our away form around for the three away games following that, although we could really do with beating Munster.

by Pete330v2 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 11:17 am

marty2086 wrote:Wilsons signed until 2017

I'm more than a little shocked.

by marty2086 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 11:24 am

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Wilsons signed until 2017

I'm more than a little shocked.

Seem to remember it was one of the first things Bryn Cunningham did when he came in

by clivemcl Tue 27 Oct 2015, 11:39 am

I have a hunch about our number 8 signing. Complete guesswork.

Steven Luatua.

He was a client of Big Red which has now merged with Esportif, and went through the sytem with Piatau. Good friends I believe and both find themselves in similar positions - perhaps hoping to make money for 3 years until they may be able to break into the international side.

Complete guess of course.

Well that was a complete waste of 10 minutes research... sorry folks...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/67644648/Steven-Luatua-re-signs-with-Blues-New-Zealand-Rugby

by **George Carlin** Tue 27 Oct 2015, 11:42 am

clivemcl wrote:I have a hunch about our number 8 signing. Complete guesswork.

Steven Luatua.

He was a client of Big Red which has now merged with Esportif, and went through the sytem with Piatau. Good friends I believe and both find themselves in similar positions - perhaps hoping to make money for 3 years until they may be able to break into the international side.

Complete guess of course.

Well that was a complete waste of 10 minutes research... sorry folks...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/67644648/Steven-Luatua-re-signs-with-Blues-New-Zealand-Rugby

by marty2086 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 11:49 am

clivemcl wrote:I have a hunch about our number 8 signing. Complete guesswork.

Steven Luatua.

He was a client of Big Red which has now merged with Esportif, and went through the sytem with Piatau. Good friends I believe and both find themselves in similar positions - perhaps hoping to make money for 3 years until they may be able to break into the international side.

Complete guess of course.

Well that was a complete waste of 10 minutes research... sorry folks...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/67644648/Steven-Luatua-re-signs-with-Blues-New-Zealand-Rugby

clive maybe this is a hint of whats to come, seems to be a decent backrower

https://instagram.com/p/9BqljYRkw7/?taken-by=ruaidhrimurphy

Fingers Crossed

by Guest Tue 27 Oct 2015, 12:28 pm

Pocock? Not sure he would be good enough. Anyway, he has discipline issue's....

....might be a great fit for Ulster then Erm

by BamBam Tue 27 Oct 2015, 12:30 pm

Jheez if you guys signed someone of the ilk of Pocock

Ulster 2015/2016 - Page 10 1347041234

by Guest Tue 27 Oct 2015, 12:33 pm

He will only be considered good enough if the Aussie's win the world cup. Decent back up though.

by marty2086 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 12:44 pm

And hes only signed with the Brumbies through to the end of the next season and should hit the 60 cap mark next year making eligible to play for the Wallabies still

Which means he won't even be considered

by Guest Tue 27 Oct 2015, 12:56 pm

It's nice to dream though. Best thing for us is that we get someone recently retired from internationals. Right time to do it.

by Pete330v2 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:01 pm

It's usually t'other forum that gets in there first with alleged signings so this is a refreshing change Smile

by Guest Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:06 pm

Well, to be honest, I did pick up the rumours from the other forum Erm

by clivemcl Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:08 pm

The other forum being surprsingly tight lipped - from what I gather - the two signings is a solid rumour, but the names those posters have heard are more guess work.

Surely though if this is recent, it wouldn't involve anyone who is still in action at the World Cup. I don't imagine anything get's signed while you as a player are involved with a world cup.

Either they are not (current) internationals. or they are internationals with sides that are already back home and back to porridge.

by Pete330v2 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 2:45 pm

Perhaps a couple of Argentinians ???? Smile

by Guest Tue 27 Oct 2015, 3:26 pm

Bowe out for at least 6 months. Henderson out for 6 weeks and it isn't yet known how long Payne will be out for.

by **George Carlin** Tue 27 Oct 2015, 4:06 pm

Still think you should have tried for Hardie when he was still a free agent. What a chance to sign a test quality openside with no linked fees or other buy-out expenses.

by marty2086 Tue 27 Oct 2015, 4:19 pm

GC, Ulster have no NIQ spots left so unless Hardie was willing to go somewhere else for a year then it was a no go

This is why Piutau is going to Wasps for a year

by **George Carlin** Tue 27 Oct 2015, 4:58 pm

marty2086 wrote:GC, Ulster have no NIQ spots left so unless Hardie was willing to go somewhere else for a year then it was a no go

This is why Piutau is going to Wasps for a year

I see. Shame - he would really have suited the club culture.

by toml Wed 28 Oct 2015, 7:20 am

George Carlin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:GC, Ulster have no NIQ spots left so unless Hardie was willing to go somewhere else for a year then it was a no go

This is why Piutau is going to Wasps for a year
I see. Shame - he would really have suited the club culture.

Does he like Bible club?

by Pete330v2 Wed 28 Oct 2015, 9:10 am

toml wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:GC, Ulster have no NIQ spots left so unless Hardie was willing to go somewhere else for a year then it was a no go

This is why Piutau is going to Wasps for a year
I see. Shame - he would really have suited the club culture.

Does he like Bible club?

And tamborines ?

by marty2086 Wed 28 Oct 2015, 10:02 am

George Carlin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:GC, Ulster have no NIQ spots left so unless Hardie was willing to go somewhere else for a year then it was a no go

This is why Piutau is going to Wasps for a year
I see. Shame - he would really have suited the club culture.

Its also why Ulster scour the globe looking for anyone who's ever kissed the Blarney Stone, drank a Guinness or watched the Quiet Man Erm

by **George Carlin** Wed 28 Oct 2015, 11:05 am

Apparently Hardie has a green jumper and once ate a potato. Missed opportunity?

by marty2086 Wed 28 Oct 2015, 1:32 pm

His granny once ate haggis so that won out

by clivemcl Fri 30 Oct 2015, 11:31 am

So the chat has been from others and our very own Geoff of at least one and maybe 2 NIQs in the summer. One at least is said to be world class.
Problem is - I've been looking and seriously struggling to find any world class backrower who does not already have their contract tied up into 2017...

I'm preparing to be underwhelmed. No. Underwhelmed is the wrong word. Anyone who is even second choice for any of the top tier nations would probably be a good asset for us. But I'm just not sure it will be one of the 'stars of world rugby'.

Can anyone think of a standout performer in the backrow who doesn't have their contract already sorted?

by marty2086 Fri 30 Oct 2015, 11:56 am

clivemcl wrote:So the chat has been from others and our very own Geoff of at least one and maybe 2 NIQs in the summer. One at least is said to be world class.
Problem is - I've been looking and seriously struggling to find any world class backrower who does not already have their contract tied up into 2017...

I'm preparing to be underwhelmed. No. Underwhelmed is the wrong word. Anyone who is even second choice for any of the top tier nations would probably be a good asset for us. But I'm just not sure it will be one of the 'stars of world rugby'.

Can anyone think of a standout performer in the backrow who doesn't have their contract already sorted?

McCaw

by clivemcl Fri 30 Oct 2015, 11:59 am

marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:So the chat has been from others and our very own Geoff of at least one and maybe 2 NIQs in the summer. One at least is said to be world class.
Problem is - I've been looking and seriously struggling to find any world class backrower who does not already have their contract tied up into 2017...

I'm preparing to be underwhelmed. No. Underwhelmed is the wrong word. Anyone who is even second choice for any of the top tier nations would probably be a good asset for us. But I'm just not sure it will be one of the 'stars of world rugby'.

Can anyone think of a standout performer in the backrow who doesn't have their contract already sorted?

McCaw

by marty2086 Fri 30 Oct 2015, 12:07 pm

Parisse, Pocock, Armitage and Faletau are all out of contract next year

by clivemcl Fri 30 Oct 2015, 12:08 pm

Sounds good! - I'll take them!

I seen Pocock has a one year contract with Brumbies. Does that end with the S15 (or whatever number it is now) season?

by marty2086 Fri 30 Oct 2015, 12:25 pm

'Former captain Pocock has been retained until the end of 2016 and will continue to play for the ACT Brumbies'

Im not sure how it would work in Pococks case but come next season he'll be free from the Brumbies and should be eligible to play abroad and for the Wallabies

We can but dream of a potential back row of Henderson Henry and Pocock

by marty2086 Fri 30 Oct 2015, 3:24 pm

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/14196.php#.VjOLs2dOeM_

Just seen this, Ulster are doing a talent search for front row players from ages 14-17

by Guest Fri 30 Oct 2015, 3:29 pm

Bit harsh on Herbst Shocked

by marty2086 Fri 30 Oct 2015, 3:49 pm

Hopefully they turn up one or two with potential

by geoff999rugby Fri 30 Oct 2015, 5:23 pm

Monkeyan wrote:
rodders wrote:
Monkeyan wrote: Suggesting that is must be part of some old school tie conspiracy smacks of a chip on shoulder mentality.

Well that said there has been cases where the academy have given places because the parents know the coaches ... but you'd expect this not to be widespread....or hope not....

If that's true, it's unacceptable. However, are we really going to form a measured view of the academy set-up based on anecdotal suggestions of nepotism?

Its not anecdotal its fact.

Hopefully it will change - knowing some of the people involved I have my doubts

by Sponsored content