Ulster 2015/2016

First topic message reminder :

Thought i would give ol' GC a helping hand and try and get Ulster types looking inward at what has been a tricky season and looking forward to next season and how we should improve. Dont have time to put down all my own theories but will do so later. This thread is a matawalu free zone btw!

As mentioned we will sign a top backrower for next season.
Don't have a name but I am certain it is a SH players and it wont be someone who can only play 7.
Could be a player who doesn't become available till after the Super 15 and Championship

Talk of the reduction to 3+1 being droped because Leinster and Munster not happy about giving Ulster special treatment because top players wont move north; so it could be as you were

geoff999rugby wrote:

rodders wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:  
Ulster have been monitoring about 250 school kids across the nine counties for several years and have them on individual improvement programmes rather than just a couple of dozen in the academy - if the talent was out there they'd know about it. McLaughlin was in charge of unearthing the wealth of talent you say is out there but presumably was not doing so and has had to go.

I have trouble believing that. I accept we, in theory, monitor players across 9 counties but in practise we are asked to believe that after such monitoring all our best players in the aged teams can be found from current or ex pupils from 5/6 schools.
Sorry but that is totally unbelievable.
In practise it is so much window dressing for the public - all the old bias and 'masonic' handshake mentalities remain.

You don't have to take my word for it just ask anyone at Ulster Rugby, or indeed any of the kids or parents who are involved in the programmes.

Yup Aukster is spot on.

The reason all the players come from 5/6 schools is because the gap is so big in coaching from the traditional rugby schools and non traditional which is what the above is trying to address but that will take years to bear fruition.  

Never said we weren't looking at players from a wider spectrum.

Obviously it will take time but do you believe the bias towards those 5/6 schools will not continue because I don't
The quality of the coaching does as much harm as good.
They have a hold on the game in NI which is crippling us and too many vested interest are happy to see it continue both inside and outside the club.

Look at many of our star players in recent year - Best and Ferris - they did not come from the inner circle of schools but kind of prove the point you have to be exceptional to break through the cosy cabal.
Even more recently fair to point out BRA, who are not one of the leading lights, have given us Henderson and Olding. Again you have to be exceptional

Where are the top players, 1 to 9, that Methody, Campbell and RBAI have produced in the last decade

As to the latest 'A' lose that makes W1 L12 I believe, below the 1st XV.

I honestly believe we are heading for a crises.
Just look at the age profile of the forwards we will fall off a cliff in a couple of years.

As an aside Olding, Bowe, Payne and Marshall will play no part in the first 4 European matches.
Actually a slight chance Marshall could but doubtful

Geoff - sorry for the delay in getting back, but here's my take on the school production line. It's not fair to exclude the positions 10 to 15 but here goes.

Consider the last 10 years of the Ulster Schools Cup (USC)
Positions 1  to 9 professional players:
Methody (6 wins, 0 Runners Up) - Annett, Macklin, Leckey, PMarshall, Heaney, McIlroy
Inst (2W, 3 RU) - Caldwell, Wilson
CCB (1W, 1RU) - Andress, McComb, McComish
Ballymena (1W) - Young, McCullough, Warwick
Wallace HS (2RU) - Henry, McCall
BRA (1RU) - McMillan, Henderson
Ballyclare (1RU) - Stevenson, Lutton
Regent House (1RU) - 0
Sullivan Upper (1RU) - 0
CAI - 0
RS Armagh - Faloon, Birch, Sandford
RS Dungannon - Pollock
Portadown College - Simon Best, Rory Best
Friends - Stephen Ferris
Wellington College - Neil Best
Ballynahinch HS - James Simpson*
Foyle College - John Burns*
* given up pro rugby

I'm not seeing a cosy cabal or favouritism for 5/6 schools just a list of mostly mediocre forwards. Ulster have spread the net wide over the provincial pond but the fish are small fry. The rules in school's rugby intentionally de-power the set piece and the referees are encouraged to blow up quickly - in short it's a different game and therefore requires different players. The USC is also given too much importance in that it is seen as the pinnacle of many players careers and once they're knocked out that's it with rugby forever.

The solution is to open up the competition to clubs' age grade teams and encourage small schools to work in collaboration with their local club to provide teams. The club connection will allow exposure for the best kids to play for other club teams against men and move the emphasis back to a game closer to real rugby. It's happening in the rest of Ireland so why not Ulster?

Monkeyan wrote:"ROI schools don't have the playing restrictions that the Ulster ones do. It is possible to play for both school and club which means the players get exposed to the man's game and associated rules. The schoolboys who are being missed in Ulster aren't even playing rugby because the game is a glorified League code where continuity and pace is rewarded at the expense of power and size. It is no wonder that Ulster aren't producing forwards."

No disrespect intended Aukster, but this typifies the muddled thinking that is undermining Ulster/Irish rugby. Only last week, everyone was lamenting the lower skills of the NH when compared to the SH, yet when schools try to encourage an expansive game, they are criticised for doing so.  

The schools system is producing forwards with much greater basic skill levels than ever before, but at senior level we still favour the old-fashioned 20 stone hulk who's great at the set piece but can't throw a pass off his left hand. To me the problem is that disconnect between what the schools are producing and what Ulster or Ireland seem to want. I thought that making that link was part of McLaughlin's old remit, but may have misunderstood what his role was about.

None taken Monkeyan.

Who is criticising Schools for playing an expansive game? The term expansive implies that a tight game can be played based on the set piece, but in schools rugby that doesn't really exist as the emphasis is to get the game restarted at any opportunity. Referees are encouraged to avoid potential dangers in scrum collapse or mauls moving too fast to limit the chance of accident. Far more infringing is allowed and consequently props and locks (as normally defined) are rendered impotent because physical dominance isn't allowed. If there is no tight game, neither is there an expansive game because they are symbiotic, and with 15 players strung across the pitch in increasingly organised defensive mode there are few opportunities for the creativity that would lead to anything resembling an expansive game. In fact all that happens is an increasing predilection to 'give it to the big lawd' who might barge his way through a tackle. You may have escaped the excitement associated with an especially large Australian now boarding at Campbell and already earmarked for big things?

I would contest that "the schools system is producing forwards with much greater basic skill levels than ever before, but at senior level we still favour the old-fashioned 20 stone hulk who's great at the set piece but can't throw a pass off his left hand", because these are the players that go on to play at senior level. What happens in your hulk scenario - do they forget how to use their skills once they leave school? I agree that they have generally better skills but I disagree that they are then lost once a player turns 19. Aside from tighthead prop who is required to hold the scrum up and anything else is a bonus, I'd say most of the pro players have better skills than ever before because they can practise them more often. Compared to the SH though they are miles behind and that is down to a multitude of reasons - mainly numbers involved in the game. A good big-un will always beat a good wee-un - that's why NZ schools match players by size rather than age. I wouldn't dare suggest that though as it might be construed as muddled thinking.

Kiss is here. Not a second too soon for me I must admit!

The Great Aukster wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

rodders wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:  
Ulster have been monitoring about 250 school kids across the nine counties for several years and have them on individual improvement programmes rather than just a couple of dozen in the academy - if the talent was out there they'd know about it. McLaughlin was in charge of unearthing the wealth of talent you say is out there but presumably was not doing so and has had to go.

I have trouble believing that. I accept we, in theory, monitor players across 9 counties but in practise we are asked to believe that after such monitoring all our best players in the aged teams can be found from current or ex pupils from 5/6 schools.
Sorry but that is totally unbelievable.
In practise it is so much window dressing for the public - all the old bias and 'masonic' handshake mentalities remain.

You don't have to take my word for it just ask anyone at Ulster Rugby, or indeed any of the kids or parents who are involved in the programmes.

Yup Aukster is spot on.

The reason all the players come from 5/6 schools is because the gap is so big in coaching from the traditional rugby schools and non traditional which is what the above is trying to address but that will take years to bear fruition.  

Never said we weren't looking at players from a wider spectrum.

Obviously it will take time but do you believe the bias towards those 5/6 schools will not continue because I don't
The quality of the coaching does as much harm as good.
They have a hold on the game in NI which is crippling us and too many vested interest are happy to see it continue both inside and outside the club.

Look at many of our star players in recent year - Best and Ferris - they did not come from the inner circle of schools but kind of prove the point you have to be exceptional to break through the cosy cabal.
Even more recently fair to point out BRA, who are not one of the leading lights, have given us Henderson and Olding. Again you have to be exceptional

Where are the top players, 1 to 9, that Methody, Campbell and RBAI have produced in the last decade

As to the latest 'A' lose that makes W1 L12 I believe, below the 1st XV.

I honestly believe we are heading for a crises.
Just look at the age profile of the forwards we will fall off a cliff in a couple of years.

As an aside Olding, Bowe, Payne and Marshall will play no part in the first 4 European matches.
Actually a slight chance Marshall could but doubtful

Geoff - sorry for the delay in getting back, but here's my take on the school production line. It's not fair to exclude the positions 10 to 15 but here goes.

Consider the last 10 years of the Ulster Schools Cup (USC)
Positions 1  to 9 professional players:
Methody (6 wins, 0 Runners Up) - Annett, Macklin, Leckey, PMarshall, Heaney, McIlroy
Inst (2W, 3 RU) - Caldwell, Wilson
CCB (1W, 1RU) - Andress, McComb, McComish
Ballymena (1W) - Young, McCullough, Warwick
Wallace HS (2RU) - Henry, McCall
BRA (1RU) - McMillan, Henderson
Ballyclare (1RU) - Stevenson, Lutton
Regent House (1RU) - 0
Sullivan Upper (1RU) - 0
CAI - 0
RS Armagh - Faloon, Birch, Sandford
RS Dungannon - Pollock
Portadown College - Simon Best, Rory Best
Friends - Stephen Ferris
Wellington College - Neil Best
Ballynahinch HS - James Simpson*
Foyle College - John Burns*
* given up pro rugby

I'm not seeing a cosy cabal or favouritism for 5/6 schools just a list of mostly mediocre forwards. Ulster have spread the net wide over the provincial pond but the fish are small fry. The rules in school's rugby intentionally de-power the set piece and the referees are encouraged to blow up quickly - in short it's a different game and therefore requires different players. The USC is also given too much importance in that it is seen as the pinnacle of many players careers and once they're knocked out that's it with rugby forever.

The solution is to open up the competition to clubs' age grade teams and encourage small schools to work in collaboration with their local club to provide teams. The club connection will allow exposure for the best kids to play for other club teams against men and move the emphasis back to a game closer to real rugby. It's happening in the rest of Ireland so why not Ulster?

Reliant on a handful of elite grammars for the whole academy. Simply not good enough, we must get rugby into the secondary schools.

"Reliant on a handful of elite grammars for the whole academy. Simply not good enough, we must get rugby into the secondary schools."

This is something that should have been addressed a generation ago. I'm sure there are countless young athletes with bags of potential that have slipped through the net. I know that when I was at the Armagh Royal there were a lot of friends of mine that would have been beasts on the rugby pitch, big hefty farmers the lot of them.
Get Rugby Union into all levels of all schools I say. If we don't find any gems of players at least there'll be more kids exposed to the best sporting culture on the planet.

Is it nor true that a great player needs to play along with other good players to improve his own game? If you managed to get a random non grammar to string together 15 boys who are useless but one who has potential. I just can't see that one lad progressing while getting beat 50-0 all season long.

How does it compare in new zealand? Does every single school play rugby. And there's no correlation as to where the top names studied?

Clive - that's why clubs need to be involved. They should be able to provide better coaching to an age group that draws from several different schools. Schools with little rugby interest don't need to suffer the expense of rugby coaching/pitches in-house but use local club facilities and by drawing on a number of schools get half-decent teams.
The very best players will no doubt get opportunities in the higher club teams and therefore always be stretched in their development.

I have to say that if the Armagh rugby club youth set up is anything to go by then the pool of players should be deeper in a number of years. There are kids playing there representing all the local schools whether the schools have embraced the sport or not. If even a handful of these kids carry on through to senior level then happy days.

Les has a steely glint in his eyes. He's going to turn it around. I fully expect to see a watertight defence, a monstrous scrum, unblemished discipline, Alan O'Connor and Willie Faloon this weekend.

Everything's coming up Ulster.

I tried watching the video interview with Kiss on the ulster rugby website. Totally zoned out, it was so boring. I hope he doesn't talk like that in the dressing room....

He sidles up to players in the dressing-room and uses the aul' Les Kiss mind trick on them. Quiet words they are powerless to disobey.

"You will give away no more silly penalties at rucks."
"I... will give away no more silly penalties... at rucks..."

Pete - By all accounts Armagh u16 youth team is very successful, but the standard in that club league isn't great. Club teams like this should be allowed to compete in the Medallion Shield, and that would provide a higher level of competition for them (and potentially their opponents). The Medallion Shield is basically a toss up between Methody and Inst with MCB 35 and RBAI 34 outright titles with CAI lying a remote third with... wait for it 8. How can such a duopoly be good for schools rugby?
At that age it is simply a numbers game with the schools with the most pupils being the most likely to have enough big lads to run through all comers. Yet that age is an important stepping stone from mini rugby to the more grown up game.

Maybe kids at say Markethill HS would rather play rugby in the High School League but if there was a route for them to play in the MS for Armagh u15s I suspect they would get better coaching and competition. Similarly St Patrick's Grammar could easily ferry players to Armagh where they would increase the playing pool and so get more competition. Thrown in City of Armagh HS and maybe a few from elsewhere and suddenly the team may start to be a bit competitive. In this way far more kids get the benefit of good coaches/facilities and establish lifelong attachments to clubs post school.

Spot on Aukster, I can't argue with that despite my optimism

I think it's also worth mentioning that there could be too many good players at some of the big rugby schools.

I wonder how many potential stars lost interest in rugby because they just missed out out A teams at Medallion level and then went down another sport route.

Some kids are late bloomers. Every school has stories of some guy who picked up rugby at 17 and ended up playing for their 1st.  There could have beeen 16 year olds on the fringes at Methody who could have become something if only they had been a main team player at a lesser school.

I remember being surprised when I left CAI how few of the rugby 'stars' kept it on. At our local club I was the only guy that year who went on to play at Coleraine (not at a high standard admittedly). Two went to Ballymena I think. A few to Queens. And the rest - no more rugby. That's out of 3 school teams. 45 kids. And I'm pretty sure less than 10 went on to play club.

The Great Aukster wrote:  Geoff - sorry for the delay in getting back, but here's my take on the school production line. It's not fair to exclude the positions 10 to 15 but here goes.

Consider the last 10 years of the Ulster Schools Cup (USC)
Positions 1  to 9 professional players:
Methody (6 wins, 0 Runners Up) - Annett, Macklin, Heaney
Ballymena (1W) - Warwick
Wallace HS (2RU) - McCall
BRA (1RU) - Henderson
Ballyclare (1RU) - Lutton
RS Armagh - Faloon, Birch


I'm not seeing a cosy cabal or favouritism for 5/6 schools just a list of mostly mediocre forwards. Ulster have spread the net wide over the provincial pond but the fish are small fry. The rules in school's rugby intentionally de-power the set piece and the referees are encouraged to blow up quickly - in short it's a different game and therefore requires different players. The USC is also given too much importance in that it is seen as the pinnacle of many players careers and once they're knocked out that's it with rugby forever.

The solution is to open up the competition to clubs' age grade teams and encourage small schools to work in collaboration with their local club to provide teams. The club connection will allow exposure for the best kids to play for other club teams against men and move the emphasis back to a game closer to real rugby. It's happening in the rest of Ireland so why not Ulster?

Firstly thanks for your reply and I agree with your comments at the bottom.
However your list of players makes for really depressing reading.
If you take out the ones 29 or over and thus more than 10 years ago and also take out the ones who never played for the 1st - see what you are left with above

That is beyond pathetic. 1 top player - Henderson and a couple of decent prospects Annett and Warwick.
The rest aren't good enough.

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:  Geoff - sorry for the delay in getting back, but here's my take on the school production line. It's not fair to exclude the positions 10 to 15 but here goes.

Consider the last 10 years of the Ulster Schools Cup (USC)
Positions 1  to 9 professional players:
Methody (6 wins, 0 Runners Up) - Annett, Macklin, Heaney
Ballymena (1W) - Warwick
Wallace HS (2RU) - McCall
BRA (1RU) - Henderson
Ballyclare (1RU) - Lutton
RS Armagh - Faloon, Birch


I'm not seeing a cosy cabal or favouritism for 5/6 schools just a list of mostly mediocre forwards. Ulster have spread the net wide over the provincial pond but the fish are small fry. The rules in school's rugby intentionally de-power the set piece and the referees are encouraged to blow up quickly - in short it's a different game and therefore requires different players. The USC is also given too much importance in that it is seen as the pinnacle of many players careers and once they're knocked out that's it with rugby forever.

The solution is to open up the competition to clubs' age grade teams and encourage small schools to work in collaboration with their local club to provide teams. The club connection will allow exposure for the best kids to play for other club teams against men and move the emphasis back to a game closer to real rugby. It's happening in the rest of Ireland so why not Ulster?

Firstly thanks for your reply and I agree with your comments at the bottom.
However your list of players makes for really depressing reading.
If you take out the ones 29 or over and thus more than 10 years ago and also take out the ones who never played for the 1st - see what you are left with above

That is beyond pathetic. 1 top player - Henderson and a couple of decent prospects Annett and Warwick.
The rest aren't good enough.

Yes - depressing isn't it! I included the older ones who are still playing because it isn't just in the last 10 years that the quality hasn't been coming through. Rory Best and Ferris were exceptions and at his peak (and when he was still on the rails) Neil Best was as well.

My point though is that I don't see the inexorable piece by piece reduction of the NIQ numbers (whenever it actually happens) as being any sort of driver to change the production line. Reducing it gradually hasn't generated the revolutionary change that is needed, and will simply prolong the inevitable decline over a longer period. Perhaps the province has to go through another 'Williams sisters' period of the late 00s where they bounce along the bottom of the Pro12 before the Ulster Branch think that something else needs to be tried?

I suppose my point is the problems we have are self inflicted within the province and why should IRFU change their policy because we cant get our act together.

Anyway it now looks the 3+1 idea is being kicked into the long grass for the reasons I gave early and it will remain 4+1 next year.
Hearing Munster and Leinster are not impressed with Nucifora and that he has been told to keep his nose out.
Sounding like he is a busted flush and players moving between provinces is dead in the water - at least in terms of the 3 senior provinces.

Interesting that Province power has resisted this reduction, player movement and the idea of only 1 NIQ player per position.

For Ulster this means de Merwe, Ludik and Williams are on their way out

We will be signing 3 new NIQ next year - Piatau, Backrower and another forward.

Any strong hints as to who the backrower might be, geoff? I'm not expecting you to tell me, just that if the rumours are true, will the signing be world class, good test class, none of the above?

Munchkin wrote:Any strong hints as to who the backrower might be, geoff? I'm not expecting you to tell me, just that if the rumours are true, will the signing be world class, good test class, none of the above?

I also want an answer to this!

It its my understanding the backrower will be an establish international (double digit caps) for a Rugby Championship Nation.
Hearing names but nothing definite at this stage - but he will not be an out and out 7.

As to the other forward we are weighing up options - which matters more a Prop, a Lock or a 2nd backrower?

geoff999rugby wrote:It its my understanding the backrower will be an establish international (double digit caps) for a Rugby Championship Nation.
Hearing names but nothing definite at this stage - but he will not be an out and out 7.

As to the other forward we are weighing up options - which matters more a Prop, a Lock or a 2nd backrower?

Does Pocock count as an out and out 7 these days?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-04/pocock-undecided-about-future-on-return-from-world-cup-defeat/6911164

There are plenty of double digit southern hemisphere players who are no longer the flavour of the month.

Geoff, do you get the impression we are talking about a current starter at one of these international sides?

I would not consider Pocock an out and out 7.

As to standard I think we are talking someone near the top of his game

Good stuff! Can we expect an announcement soon do you know?


On another note, going back to the IRFU and NIQs etc...

I found an interesting article discussing world cup squads and the amount of non-native players in each.

We (Ireland) come joint 10th with five non-native players.
Richardt Strauss
Nathan White
Jamie Heaslip
Jordi Murphy
Jared Payne

We came joint with Canada and..... wait for it... New Zealand.

Of course, the article only separates those born in the country to those not - and doesn't care whose 'system' they are a product of. But I don't think we are in the dire straits the IRFU make it seem like we are.

The only country to have a squad made up entirely of native born players was Argentina.

And only six countries did not have residency qualified players - Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Georgia, Uraguay and Argentina.

geoff999rugby wrote:It its my understanding the backrower will be an establish international (double digit caps) for a Rugby Championship Nation.
Hearing names but nothing definite at this stage - but he will not be an out and out 7.

As to the other forward we are weighing up options - which matters more a Prop, a Lock or a 2nd backrower?

Thanks, geoff, that's encouraging.

I don't think a prop is an immediate concern. I do think Lutton has been treated rather badly, and with all the promise that Warwick was showing, he seems to be going backwards as well. Not forgetting about another promising player at lock, in O'Connor.
We have Henderson, Tuohy, Stevenson and O'Connor in the second row. Stevenson has shown an improvement in form, and O'Connor has yet to be given a real chance to show his potential. Or perhaps it's better to say that he has shown his potential but hasn't been given the chance to develop.
It's between prop and backrower for me, and backrow stands out as area most in need. Williams will be gone. Wilson will be close to the door, and even if he's not, he's not playing well enough to justify selection (but for the want of better options). Henry is a rock, but he isn't getting any younger, and he can't be expected to do it all alone. The other guys we have in there, Reidy and Ross, are ok, but just ok. I would be delighted with a great ball carrying breakdown specialist.

2016 before any announcement - I think !

I'd like to see those figures to also exclude anyone with 2 National parents who were also brought up in the country.
Heaslip and Murphy are full Irishmen by any rational measure.

So we may have only 3 now but there are a number in the pipeline and that bothers me.

Where the hell is Alan O'Connor now that I've seen him mentioned by Munchkin?
He showed bags of potential so has he fallen off the superstar wagon or has Clarke taken the huff with him the same way he'd done to Lutton?

There are a lot of people at the club asking that question - especially with Tuohy not being up to the mark at the moment.

Hopefully Kiss will resolve

Dont think anyone has posted this - European squad


Prop
Callum Black
Wiehahn Herbst
Ricky Lutton
Kyle McCall
Ruaidhri Murphy
Bronson Ross
Andy Warwick

Hooker
John Andrew
Rory Best
Rob Herring

Second row
Peter Browne
Iain Henderson
Alan O'Connor
Lewis Stevenson
Dan Tuohy
Franco van der Merwe

Back row
Robbie Diack
Willie Faloon
Chris Henry
Sean Reidy
Clive Ross
Nick Williams
Roger Wilson

Scrum half
Paul Marshall
Ruan Pienaar
Paul Rowley
David Shanahan

Fly half
Ian Humphreys
Paddy Jackson
Sam Windsor

Centre
Sam Arnold
Darren Cave
Luke Marshall
Stuart McCloskey

Back three
Craig Gilroy
Louis Ludik
Rob Lyttle
Peter Nelson
Rory Scholes
Jacob Stockdale
Andrew Trimble

Few points:
Bowe and Payne out
Marshall and Henderson in
Ludik is iffy for the 1st match
No young player in the back row - sadly an accurate reflection of their ability
Lyttle is keeping a slot warm for Payne for the later matches

geoff999rugby wrote:
Few points:
Bowe and Payne out
Marshall and Henderson in
Ludik is iffy for the 1st match
No young player in the back row - sadly an accurate reflection of their ability
Lyttle is keeping a slot warm for Payne for the later matches

No sign of Olding either so can we take that as a sign not expect him back in the next few months?

Olding I expect back just after New Year - gentle introduction
We could replace Stockdale with him if he recovers faster than expected

Interesting team for Dragons

15-9): Peter Nelson, Rory Scholes, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey, Sammy Arnold, Paddy Jackson, Paul Marshall; (1-8) Kyle McCall, Rob Herring (captain), Wiehahn Herbst, Dan Tuohy, Franco van der Merwe, Robbie Diack, Chris Henry, Stephen Mulholland.

Replacements (16-23): Rory Best, Ricky Lutton, Bronson Ross, Lewis Stevenson, Sean Reidy, Ruan Pienaar, Ian Humphreys, Craig Gilroy.

Wilson and Williams out, Mulholland at 8, Gilroy on the bench with Arnold and Scholes on the wings and McCall in for Warwick

I know we play Oyonnax with a 6 day turnaround, but McCall and Mulholland? Still, a very strong bench.

My take on that team

Trimble may be injured and Arnold/Scholes are fighting for a wing slot the following week
MCall playing suggests to me either Black or Warwick are a doubt and the LH cover place is up for grabs
Tuohy giving a chance to kick start his season
Diack given a chance to be fit
Mulholland is bizarre - cant make the European squad but start here - why not start with Ross?
Wilson dropped to given him a kick up the arse ?

May be able to find some answers tonight - meeting up with someone who could know

Just been told Trimble is injured so Arnold/Scholes in a possible head to head.

Kiss is obviously taking a look at some players. Hopefully doesn't backfire on us but we needed to shake things up! I think this selection will have that affect. New Director of Rugby comes in and suddenly everyone is playing for their place, some players who have been nowhere near the team are suddenly involved- players will be incredibly keen to impress under the circumstances.

Mulholland may not be good, who knows, but Wilson needed to be dropped.

Wilson I agree with, but what about Williams? Strange, unless he's also injured.

Kiss out!!

Williams played 80mins a lot recently, maybe giving him a break to come back refreshed for next week

True, Marty. He does need a break. Just that this is a game we will really want to win, and dropping both Wilson and Williams seems a bit careless.

Maybe just a case of bad timing, Wilson needed to go and we need a good start to the ERCC campaign and Oyannax offer an opportunity for that

Maybe Mulholland will surprise us. Certainly makes the game a bit more interesting

Munchkin wrote:Maybe Mulholland will surprise us. Certainly makes the game a bit more interesting

Well we have to give the Dragons a chance since we're making them play at home on a Sunday

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Maybe Mulholland will surprise us. Certainly makes the game a bit more interesting

Well we have to give the Dragons a chance since we're making them play at home on a Sunday

Yes, it's all our fault

Aha! You've finally admitted it!

Is Mulholland a youth player or another journey man you've signed up?

Club player from Ballymena. He may well turn out to be a journeyman but he'll be our journeyman.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Aha! You've finally admitted it!

Sure we couldn't hide the truth forever. We control everything, and there's nothing anyone can do about it

Munchkin wrote:Maybe Mulholland will surprise us. Certainly makes the game a bit more interesting

He might not be great, but Wilson hasn't looked at all motivated and even if he makes a few mistakes or gives away a silly pen or two he'll struggle to be worse. Plus he's still learning whereas Wilson will be retiring soon.