Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

by Don Alfonso Mon 01 Jun 2015, 5:12 pm

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?

The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:

Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST

Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September

31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

by The Great Aukster Mon 01 Jun 2015, 8:28 pm

It surely has to be an 18/13 split as I can't see any less that 9 front-rows going. Loosehead and Tighthead are just as specialised positions now as Hooker and with the rules requiring specialised cover on the bench, there has to be three for each position in the squad.
Secondly the pack need to be rotated more than the backs. Set piece play can be drilled and minimising the risk of having to bring in a substitute at short notice is probably less disruptive to the team.

by **Notch** Mon 01 Jun 2015, 8:46 pm

Right, here goes nothin'

Loosehead Props
Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne
Tighthead Props
Mike Ross, Martin Moore, Tadhg Furlong
Hookers
Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss
Locks
Paul O'Connell (capt), Devin Toner, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson
Backrow
Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Chris Henry, Jamie Heaslip, Jordi Murphy
Scrum-half
Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan, Isaac Boss
Outhalf
Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson
Centre
Robbie Henshaw, Stuart McCloskey, Jared Payne
Back three
Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Tommy Bowe, Simon Zebo, Rob Kearney

I question whether we have room for 3 out halves. And the answer I think we have to gamble in one position or the other- taking either just five props or just two 10s. I pretty much agree with Aukster that the front row needs priority.

I expect Madigan to start an entire game at 12 in the warm-up matches. But I don't see him being suitable to play 12 in a major test match in the game plan Ireland have used so far under Schmidt. I believe if Henshaw goes down we need a really strong runner at 12. Madigan, Luke Marshall and Gordon D'Arcy don't do it for me. Even if Olding was fit I still think McCloskey is the most like for like replacement for Henshaw.

If Madigan was picked as a third choice 10, leaving just 7 outside back slots, we have options. Earls can cover the centre positions and Payne can cover fullback. But we'd be one injury away from no outside backs cover. I'm not convinced either Jackson or Madigan is good enough outside to justify that. Oh what I would give to have a 9 like Pienaar who can provide emergency 10 cover or a reserve 10 like Cipriani who is comfortable at fullback.

Looking at that squad, I'm terrified of seeing Conor Murray not recover from his injury or picking up a new one. And also slightly worried at the depth at tight head- Furlong or Archer, close call, but neither fill me with that much confidence. I have been impressed with the Munster scrum and will be good to see Kilcoyne back in green. I want to see Zebo cover fullback instead of Felix Jones but that's my own hobby horse.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 01 Jun 2015, 8:56 pm

Notch,

If you took just Sexton and Jackson who do you have as a possible utility type player to cover if need. I think we (Wales) will only take two 10s but then have Hook (hopefully) or Anscombe Sad

in the squad as cover/utility.

by **Notch** Mon 01 Jun 2015, 9:03 pm

Well thats the huge problem we face. The answer is Madigan or Keatley, but to be honest I don't rate them as outside backs at international level. Madigan can play 12, but I don't think he's great there either. Hopefully his performances in the warm-ups show that he's been playing with a bad case of the Matt O'Connors for Leinster and in a competently coached back line he can play much better than he has done. And I think that is very possible.

But right now, based on his Leinster form, I simply don't think Ireland have access to any utility players who can play 10 and another back line position to international standard.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 01 Jun 2015, 9:17 pm

That could be big worry then. I am not a fan of Hook starting at 10 but his versatility can be invaluable given he can and has played test level at 10,12,13 and 15.

by **profitius** Mon 01 Jun 2015, 10:19 pm

I think Jackson has to go. If Sexton gets injured we cannot trust Madigan to start. I like Madigan and he is a good bench option but his game management isn't up to standard to start games.

Trying to get inside Schmidts head:
Backrow: I'd say Henry, SOB, POM, Heaslip and probably Murphy.
I think Donnacha Ryan will be the fourth lock.
Boss the third scrum half.
Henshaw, Payne and someone else for center.
Back 3 of Trimble, Rob Kearney, Bowe, Zebo and Fitz
Props Healy, McGrath, Ross, Moore and James Cronin.
Hooker Best, Cronin, Strauss
Center: Henshaw, Payne and ?????

I think Earls, TOD, D'Arcy, Marmion, Cave, Tuohy, Gilroy, Kilcoyne and most of the Connacht lads etc will all miss out.

McCloskey or Reid could be bolters.

As usual some of the guaranteed to go players are going to pick up injuries and miss the WC.

by Don Alfonso Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:06 am

Okay. So. My thoughts on the fringe players.

Front rows - maybe take Bent instead of Furlong for his flexibility. Maybe. Is Furlong really the third best IQ TH in Ireland? I do wonder how much of the criticism of Archer's scrummaging is still valid, and how much is based on the pastings he got when he first came on the scene.

I hope Herring avoids any concussion issues or long protocols. He's been the third best hooker in Ireland this season, and Strauss isn't a shadow of the player he was three seasons ago. If Rob has a game or two in the warm-up games, hopefully he can prove it.

No idea who the fourth second row should be. Earlier in the season I'd have said Tuohy, who was in great form. He's wound down quite a bit. But I've seen nothing from Ryan to suggest he should go. I'd give it to Tuohy, given his good form was only a few months ago - Ryan's was a year ago. To be honest, neither makes me punch the air for joy.

Back-row - I think Henry will go, would like to see Ruddock but does he have enough time to convince? Shame for him if not.

Scrum-half is what it is.

Sexton and Jackson.

I'm, not sure I'd bring Madigan at all. I don;t want to see him play at 10, 12 or 15 at international level. My heart would sink.

Would love to see McCloskey go as a bolter, but I think given the relative inexperience of our first-choice centres at international level, I'd be too nervous to pick him. Maybe Cave? Him at 12 and Henshaw at 13 might work. Depends on the back three. Or maybe we rely on Earls/Fitz at 13.

I don't think Trimble has time to get back in the reckoning - he's been out for quite a while. Zebo's form has fallen off a cliff. That seems to be due to injury, but until I know for sure, he's off the plane. On form, it's Bowe, Gilroy, and Earls. I do like Fitz generally, but he's off having more surgery... even if he's back in time, it doesn't inspire confidence as to his longevity. Gilroy's much-maligned defence is actually good - he's improved massively. Poor boot on him, though. I love the idea of him counter-attacking from 15, I'm not so keen on the idea of him kicking back down the line. And Bowe hasn't been pulling up trees. Still, it's the least worrisome position.

Kearney, I wish we had a replacement for. If we had one more, good, internationally experienced centre, I'd put Payne in there like a shot. Kearney is not the same player as he was on the 2009 Lions tour.

by Don Alfonso Tue 02 Jun 2015, 10:18 am

Oh yeah - and no Darcy. No.

by gleesonisgod Tue 02 Jun 2015, 1:42 pm

Most of the squad picks itself, not gonna waste time and name them.

Loosehead: If Buckley can reproduce this season's form at international level then he should go, especially for his scrummaging.

Tighthead: Was hoping Furlong would put the argument to bed against the BaaBaa's, still a shoot out between himself and White it seems. Ah You and Archer with slim chance.

Lock: One huge performance in the warm ups could seal it for one of Tuohy, Ryan or McCarthy. Tuohy in pole atm but a fit and firing Ryan is the best out of the 3.

Backrow: Murphy or Ruddock? Both very good but Ruddock in the AI's was better than anything Murphy has done, so if back Ruddock should be ahead. But does Schmidt see Murphy as Heaslip's back up?

Scrum half: Amazing that Boss could well be 2nd choice. Hopefully Schmidt gets Reddser going again.
Possible scenario; McGrath plays out of his skin in Tblisi, gets a shot in the warm ups and goes to the WC?
Not sure what the story with Marmion is tbh so can't comment.

Outhalf: I wouldn't take Maddog tbh, I think we can manage with 2 outhalves and there are better options at 12, also he can be drafted in if there are injuries.
Can JJ do the same as I said for L McGrath, surely not.

Center: I think it's gonna be between McCloskey, Marshall, and Cave. Marshall I thought showed glimmers against the BaaBaa's and has always been v good at international level especially going forward. So Payne, Henshaw plus one of those guys with Earls and Fitz both capable of doing a job.

Wings: Bowe is really the only definite, and showed some good stuff vs Munster, after a relatively quiet 6N.
If Fitz is back he's got to go, been immense this season and our most complete winger after Tommy.
If Trimble is back for the warm ups and is back to form (a big if) I have no doubt that he'll go.
Earls also in great form and can cover loads of positions. I'd personally have him starting at 15 atm.
Gilroy in great form and great player could well force his way in.
Zebo in form still isn't as good as the others and I'm a fan.
McFadden and Lil'Kearney a step below.

Fullback: I wouldn't bring him but I think Jones will go leaving space for only 3 wings. Earls, Fitz, Payne, even Maddog can do a job at 15.

So my squad:

Healy,McGrath, Buckley
Best,Cronin, Strauss,
Ross, Moore, Furlong
POC, Hendo, Toner, Ryan
POM, Ruddock
SOB, Henry
Heaslip
Murray, Reddan, Boss
Sexton, Jackson
Henshaw, Payne, McCloskey
Bowe, Trimble, Fitz, Earls
Kearney.

by **rodders** Tue 02 Jun 2015, 1:49 pm

Loosehead Props
Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne
Tighthead Props
Mike Ross, Martin Moore, Tadhg Furlong
Hookers
Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss
Locks
Paul O'Connell (capt), Devin Toner, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson
Backrow
Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Chris Henry, Jamie Heaslip, Jordi Murphy
Scrum-half
Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan, Isaac Boss
Outhalf
Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson
Centre
Robbie Henshaw, Ian Madigan, Jared Payne
Back three
Luke Fitzgerald, Tommy Bowe, Dave Kearney, Felix Jones, Rob Kearney

Forwards

I think the forwards almost picks itself.

Touhy or McCarthy has to go as neither Hendo, Toner or Ryan can bind on the TH side.

If Donnacha Ryan goes does Schmidt leave out Murphy - as Henderson and Ryan cover 6 and Henry and SOB cover 7. Presumably Murphy will cover Heaslip, so think Ryan misses out.

Backs

Does Schmidt take Jackson and Madigan or just go with Madigan as back up 10?

Centers - I think Madigan will cover center and be the bench option. Fitzgerald/Bowe can cover.

Back 3. I think Schmidt will pick 2 left side options and 2 right plus want 2 specialist full backs - therefore I believe Schmidt will take Jones.

I think either Bowe or Trimble and either of Fitzgerald/Zebo. Fitzgerald I think will get the nod as can cover center. Earls and K2 can play either side but think Kearney gets the nod.

by SecretFly Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:10 pm

The problem or question mark players for me are Reddan - just seems his time is now gone at the highest International level. We need a new zippier alternative in there now to compliment Murray's more physical presence. Ironically though, having said that about 'new', I'd take Stringer in a flash - sharper and fitter than any of the alternatives. Silly and political that he gets overlooked.

Kearney - either he's keeping rigidly to a specific plan to keep it simple and 'boring' or he's just lost anything special he once had.
Though, I've never been fully convinced by him at 15 - one off special performances aside -, even when he was jumping high and catching sweetly. Now, when we could actually make a big impact running onto his heroic midfield catches, now is the time he chooses to be so ordinary, even in those moments - Biggar and Halfpenny outshone everyone there during the 6N.

It's hard to judge him accurately, as it's hard enough to judge a handful of players - particularly maddening trying to judge any of the Leinster players right now! You really don't know what's real and what's a long term feint. You'd expect Joe Schmidt should know it's not good enough from Kearney and yet he still chooses him. So there is always questions questions about many Irish performers. Kearney for now though looks the most off-his-best-form of the Leinster mainstay bunch and is giving us scant all in creativity from the back.

Bowe - he has his fans who say he still has it and still does it. Again, I have to be honest and say, for me, I don't think he does. He's not terrible but there is no way he's motoring at his best.
Shouldn't be expected, one might retort. - Perhaps.
But I just see a lot of uneasy handling/flailing knock backs from him that could absolutely kill us off in Hot Hot games at the WC. He doesn't seem to have the confidence he once had and, again, only Joe and rest of the team know if he has it all under wraps for more expression at the WC itself.

Zebo. I've joked about him many times but I always felt he was 'one' of the guys that might give us the IT factor in time. The IT factor has to come from the player's own sense of ability not out of a gameplan he's being loyal to or obedient to.
I don't think any of the players can dish out the excuse that their creativity is being dampened by the defensive duties under Schmidt.
Schmidt and players have said the licence is there to turn it on if you're in a position to. Most backs though seem to be having the rough time themselves, trying to keep their minds on two masters - defence and attack.
And that's the frustrating thing that grows and grows. We're back almost to where we were in Kidney's darkest days. We're expending so much energy to defend - and the gains are so slim, and the risks so great, as wave upon wave of attack hits us, that I'm not so sure at all we'll hold out through a WC if we bring nothing extra to the tactics.
For now, Zebo has joined the pack of also-ran tried outs. I'm waiting for Earls now too to see if he quickly joins the 'normal' list under Schmidt. We need a player that has the courage to be a star - a genuine star - not a regular on-day and off-day player, not someone fearfully chained to defensive duties, not someone that Might be great in a few years. We need a player to step up now and claim O'Driscoll's crown.

by wolfball Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:20 pm

We are in a bit of trouble in the backs I would argue. All sensible posts above, and agree with the bulk, and the pack is pretty sorted, and strong - but in the backline, i have no idea which way Joe will go, and further, which way I think he should go.

He gave Madigan every possible chance, and he's failed them all. Hence, Jackson HAS to go.

Marmion has failed to step up, which as a Connacht fan is pretty upsetting. I hope he will some day, but with injuries etc, he wont go to the worldcup. Boss can be a handy flacktrack bully player for some of the minnows, but after that Murray is arguably our most indespensible player. i would protect him and not play him in any of the warm ups, with maybe a bench in the england game.

McCloskey - would love to see him as a bolter. I think he can do it, there are 7 games to step up.

Back 3 is a mess. Zebo/Bowe/Kearney, ie our recent first choice back three are all not looking great, niggly injuries. Earls and Gilroy are electric right now, but haven't been seen much at international recently. And seemingly, Felix is penned in for a spot regardless of anything else.

My preferred Backs:

Scrumhalf - Murray, Reddan, Boss
Outhalf - Sexton, Jackson
Centres- Henshaw, Paine, McCloskey
Back 3- Earls, Gilroy, Kearney, Zebo, Bowe

What Joe will do:
Scrumhalf - Murray, Reddan, Boss
Outhalf - Sexton, Jackson
Centres- Henshaw, Paine, Madigan
Back 3- Jones, Gilroy, Kearney, Zebo, Bowe

by **rodders** Wed 03 Jun 2015, 9:24 am

wolfball wrote:We are in a bit of trouble in the backs I would argue.

Yes I wouldn't go that far but there isn't a great deal of cutting edge there and none of the provinces are creating much against the better teams. Traditionally Leinster provided the attacking flair and they've looked the worst side with ball in hand.

I think there are a number of issues -

Ball carrying is an issue - SOB, Healy and Heaslip aren't having the success of previous years and Ferris is missed. Iain Henderson and CJ Stander have probably been the standout carriers in the pack and only one of those is IQ.

In the backs McCloskey has shown glimpses of a cutting edge and power,Matt Healy and Gilroy have looked exciting in space, and Jackson has been very creative but other than that its been fairly pedestrian except against weak opposition. Too much is expected of Henshaw who's looked tired in recent weeks.

At 9 Reddan really has dropped off badly so Murray is essential to launch attacks. Sexton was immense against France in the 6N but hasn't been consistent at metro.

Kearney and Madigan have had poor seasons and Bowe and Zebo have only hit form sporadically. McFadden is a forgotten man and Trimble is missed for is running lines through the middle. Fitzgerald can't stay injury free as per usual and personally not convinced Earls can step up - he's looked sharp but been outmuscled a few times by better sides - wouldn't be in my top 5 wings to be honest.

Joe will have to do what he does best and that's get the most out of what we have - which isn't a lot at the minute in the backs.

by Don Alfonso Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:53 pm

Just as an adjunct:
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-exiles-irish-abroad-team-of-the-season-2140363-Jun2015/

10 Ulstermen. Would like to get Farrell and Annett back at some stage. Possibly Carey, if he keeps developing. Delighted for the rest, particularly Court, Whitten and Birch. Even those chancers Best and Andress.

by **Notch** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 12:12 am

No offence to Peter Lydon, but I don't think that he's the best Irish 10 playing abroad this season. He may have been up and down for Racing, but surely Sexton would be making most lists of our talented expats? Smile

I understand that the article is highlighting the players who aren't recognised on the home front and everyone and his dog knows about Sexton, but even so...

by Don Alfonso Thu 04 Jun 2015, 12:22 am

You're being too much of a stickler, Notch.

Don't be the pedantic Wayne Barnes of article readers - be the Nigel Owens.

by SecretFly Thu 04 Jun 2015, 11:11 am

It's perhaps edifying to see that we begin once again to look beyond our own borders to see where Irish players are playing and performing.

It's subtle for now but with POC almost certainly off now too to Europe's most potent side, the inevitable slippage that the new European way predicted looks to be ever so coyly kicking in.

Far away skies are always now bluer (Blue boy BOD himself actively encouraging POC to do something he himself never felt to need to act upon).
Far away wage packets are of course getting ever more tastier.
Far away teams now seem naturally 'Better' once more.

So a projected future if the trend strengthens? - Provincial rugby fans begin to keep a more dedicated eye on those faraway sides that have Irish players in them. Loyalties become watered down when those faraway side meets a fellow Pro12, or even a fellow Provincial side in battle. Perhaps even the emergence of Toulon/Saracens/Harlequins shirts on Irish fans' backs in such encounters. Calls begin to come from media and Irish rugby fans alike that more of the exiles should be considered for inclusion in the National team because, after all, they play in better sides, better leagues, with better team mates - that are more successful than Provincial ones........

.... the steady-as-she-goes slippage of faith in the home product eats at the home structures and we're potentially back to the good old days when English and French rugby dominated and giggled down on their cannon-fodder opponents from the 'lesser' nations.

Nope, we're not close to being there yet - and I'm not being a pessimist (really, I'm not Wink

) - but the IRFU must keep a long-view handle (crystal ball) on projected futures because the drip feed of interest from Provinces to 'Big' heavily marketed English and/or French sides could easily become a flood if they don't preempt a worst case scenario and therefore be in a mode that's ready to face such challenges.

by **rodders** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 11:15 am

As baba O'Riley himself once said - "the exodus is here".

by Don Alfonso Thu 04 Jun 2015, 11:39 am

SecretFly wrote:It's perhaps edifying to see that we begin once again to look beyond our own borders to see where Irish players are playing and performing.

It's subtle for now but with POC almost certainly off now too to Europe's most potent side, the inevitable slippage that the new European way predicted looks to be ever so coyly kicking in.

Far away skies are always now bluer (Blue boy BOD himself actively encouraging POC to do something he himself never felt to need to act upon).
Far away wage packets are of course getting ever more tastier.
Far away teams now seem naturally 'Better' once more.

So a projected future if the trend strengthens? - Provincial rugby fans begin to keep a more dedicated eye on those faraway sides that have Irish players in them. Loyalties become watered down when those faraway side meets a fellow Pro12, or even a fellow Provincial side in battle. Perhaps even the emergence of Toulon/Saracens/Harlequins shirts on Irish fans' backs in such encounters. Calls begin to come from media and Irish rugby fans alike that more of the exiles should be considered for inclusion in the National team because, after all, they play in better sides, better leagues, with better team mates - that are more successful than Provincial ones........

.... the steady-as-she-goes slippage of faith in the home product eats at the home structures and we're potentially back to the good old days when English and French rugby dominated and giggled down on their cannon-fodder opponents from the 'lesser' nations.

Nope, we're not close to being there yet - and I'm not being a pessimist (really, I'm not ) - but the IRFU must keep a long-view handle (crystal ball) on projected futures because the drip feed of interest from Provinces to 'Big' heavily marketed English and/or French sides could easily become a flood if they don't preempt a worst case scenario and therefore be in a mode that's ready to face such challenges.

Don' necessarily agree. although I recognise the attitude you're talking about. There are four professional top-flight rugby teams in Ireland. There are twelve in England, apparently soon to be fourteen, and already fourteen in France. if good, promising players don't go abroad, there's a bottleneck.

Unless - could we find someone and task them with facilitating talented players moving amongst provinces...? Why has no-one thought of that?

Having said that, Farrell, who would otherwise have been behind Olding, McCluskey, Marshall, and Cave (assuming he'd be ahead of Arnold) was quite open about the fact that he didn't wnat to play for another province - he wanted to leave completely.

by **profitius** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 2:18 pm

Having a look at rugby transfers its seems more Irish are going abroad. Ever league seems to have signed more Irish than Irish leaving. The bottleneck means fewer players are willing to wait around much longer.

by wolfball Thu 04 Jun 2015, 2:41 pm

profitius wrote:Having a look at rugby transfers its seems more Irish are going abroad. Ever league seems to have signed more Irish than Irish leaving. The bottleneck means fewer players are willing to wait around much longer.

if we can get the "funnel" right, it could be great for us, ie:

% of academy/bench players go abroad who cant get gametime at the provinces

of that abroad group, a % excel, and catch the eye of provinces again

bring the best of the best back to the provinces

Issues, as ever, are how much these players might be getting in the likes of France, and whether the excellent/late bloomer players we let go, want to return...

by Marshes Fri 05 Jun 2015, 2:09 am

I think if we are going to look at a tiered system of development, then the IRFU should be prioritising bringing Connacht to the fore, before the exile pathway. The iron will never be hotter to strike. A record points haul in the pro 12, a strong display away in Europe against Gloucester and some of the form players in the country (Henshaw i standout every week, Healy, Buckley, Masterson). Beyond that should be the export, but Connacht are only a few player short of being real playoff contenders for the pro12, and this should be nurtured. With the depth of talent we have coming through there is no reason they should play second fiddle anymore.

by Don Alfonso Fri 05 Jun 2015, 10:41 am

A poster on another forum attended "An Evening with Joe Schmidt" at NUIM Barnhall RFC last night. Alan Quinlan was master of ceremonies. Said Schmidt seemed pretty honest in his opinions.

Apparently he rates Tadhg Furlong, as does Mike Ross, in whose judgement Joe puts a fair bit of faith. Toner trains really hard, knocking other players about. McCloskey is a player they have their eyes on - very impressed by him. It's also a shame Olding is injured - he is "special". Jack O'Donoghue is best young uncapped forward in Ireland.

I am just regurgitating the post by the guy in attendance. But maybe McCloskey is more likely than I had previously thought.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Jun 2015, 11:24 am

Don Alfonso wrote:Apparently he rates Tadhg Furlong, as does Mike Ross, in whose judgement Joe puts a fair bit of faith. Toner trains really hard, knocking other players about. McCloskey is a player they have their eyes on - very impressed by him. It's also a shame Olding is injured - he is "special". Jack O'Donoghue is best young uncapped forward in Ireland.

I am just regurgitating the post by the guy in attendance. But maybe McCloskey is more likely than I had previously thought.

Well if you look at the center combination Joe has gone with there is obviously an emphasis on physicality and the ability to take straight lines up the middle. Behind Henshaw, who is there that fits the same template? I'm not surprised McCloskey is well on the radar - I'd imagine Noel Reid is someone they are watching closely too but not sure they will make the cut for the RWC.

by The Great Aukster Fri 05 Jun 2015, 9:14 pm

Could Furlong make the RWC? It would be fairly unique if three Tightheads from the same province were picked!

by Don Alfonso Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:05 pm

So - what team do folk want for the game this weekend against Emerging Italy?

by Don Alfonso Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:09 pm

Ireland squad for Tbilisi Cup which kicks off on 13 June:
Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Finlay Bealham (Corinthians/Connacht)
Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht)
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster)
John Cooney (Terenure/Connacht)
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Eoin Griffin (London Irish)
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Matt Healy (Lansdowne/Connacht)
Dave Heffernan (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Cian Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)
Ben Marshall (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Eoghan Masterson (Corinthians/Connacht)
Stuart McCloskey (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin McKeon (Corinthians/Connacht)
Peter Nelson (Malone/Ulster)
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Noel Reid (Clontarf/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster)
Lewis Stevenson (Malone/Ulster)
Frank Taggart (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Andy Warwick (Ballymena/Ulster)

by Don Alfonso Tue 09 Jun 2015, 7:26 pm

For me, priority is giving Ruddock game time, and affording a chance to potential bolsters for the RWC - McCloskey, Herring... Cronin maybe? Or Buckley.

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:07 pm

There will be no bolters off the back of this tournament due to the standard of teams in it. I really don't understand why this tournament exists.

by **rodders** Wed 10 Jun 2015, 9:11 am

Is this televised?

Would like to see a backline of:-

9 McGrath
10 Hanaran
11 O'Halloran
12 McCloskey
13 Reid
14 Healy
15 Olding

by Sin é Wed 10 Jun 2015, 9:15 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:There will be no bolters off the back of this tournament due to the standard of teams in it. I really don't understand why this tournament exists.

Its to help the developing countries and I'd imagine Ireland are looking to making friends for world cup votes from the smaller nations!

by Don Alfonso Wed 10 Jun 2015, 1:13 pm

rodders wrote:Is this televised?

Would like to see a backline of:-

9 McGrath
10 Hanaran
11 O'Halloran
12 McCloskey
13 Reid
14 Healy
15 Olding

Olding out injured, Rodders.

The reaosn I think there could be bolters is the order of games in the pool. Canada - Romania -Italy - France. An upward curve of difficulty, pretty much, that a player could manage if they had a stand-out Tiblisi cup.

by Don Alfonso Wed 10 Jun 2015, 1:15 pm

To say nothing of the official warm-up games that will be full caps.

by **rodders** Wed 10 Jun 2015, 1:20 pm

When is the extended squad named?

I think Schmidt will be looking at Ruddock, reid, McCloskey, Archer and Buckley for sure. Centre and front row aren't that well covered.

A couple of injuries and a few of these guys could be called upon.

by **Notch** Wed 10 Jun 2015, 2:16 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:There will be no bolters off the back of this tournament due to the standard of teams in it. I really don't understand why this tournament exists.

Not off the back of this tournament but there are players who are already in the frame to be bolters in this squad.

by **rodders** Wed 10 Jun 2015, 2:59 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:

Olding out injured, Rodders.

by **profitius** Wed 10 Jun 2015, 3:04 pm

McCloskey could be a bolter. I think if you were picking the world cup squad on form, Healy and Buckley would be in it. Both had great seasons for Connacht.

by Standulstermen Thu 11 Jun 2015, 9:09 am

Healy still has too many issues on the defensive side of the ball. Buckley is very impressive though

by The Great Aukster Thu 11 Jun 2015, 9:14 am

Why is the team known as Emerging Ireland rather than the Wolfhounds?

Will there be streaming of these games?

SU - I agree regarding Healy's defence. He is a lot like Johnny May great going forward in space, but you wouldn't back him as your last defender.

by SecretFly Thu 11 Jun 2015, 9:45 am

The Wolfhounds are generally a bunch of fringe players (that have hopes of pushing themselves into contention for senior squad) + a few senior players that are perhaps on their way back from injury or there simply as a little security ballast.
Emerging Ireland is supposedly the title Ireland choose when playing these mini-series against lower-tier Nations. It would generally be more a third-removed side from the seniors but perhaps this year it'll have more serious meaning for serious try-outs for perhaps a few serious WC contenders.

by The Great Aukster Thu 11 Jun 2015, 10:10 am

Ireland go to the trouble (and expense) of branding the A team as the 'Wolfhounds' and then don't use it?

It seems to me far more likely that World Rugby have had a heavy hand in what name they would allow. Very few outside of Ireland would know that the Wolfhounds were actually an Ireland team, and even the longer 'Irish Wolfhounds' may not have been pc enough for them. Emerging Italy on the tin conveys exactly what the team are - next generation Test players.

I suspect the marketing genius who came up with the Wolfhounds brand is now forced to go to the one fixture they have every year and spend 80 minutes small-talking to his Saxons counterpart.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 11 Jun 2015, 10:24 am

I'd say it has more to do with the level of fixture these games are.A Wolfhounds game binds a player who represents the team to Ireland,it is our official 2nd team and these games are not of a high enough level to justify sending a Wolfhounds team out.Dan Leavy ,Finlay Beaham and Frank Taggart (just picking these 3 as an example) wouldn't make the Wolfhounds right now even if some of the guys in this squad would.

by The Great Aukster Thu 11 Jun 2015, 10:51 am

Given that the Wolfhounds aren't playing anywhere, what difference would it make if the team was called the Wolfhounds irrespective of any perceived difference in class?

I don't agree with tying a young player into one nation for life with only one cap, but for the majority that do is this not the perfect opportunity?

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 11 Jun 2015, 11:14 am

I'd say it's just red tape,probably some agreement stating that we are sending our 3rd team.Just a guess but I doubt a lot of thought was put into it.

by **rodders** Thu 11 Jun 2015, 11:16 am

Probably a way of keeping guys on a lower salary Smile

by The Great Aukster Thu 11 Jun 2015, 12:31 pm

rodders wrote:Probably a way of keeping guys on a lower salary

You jest rodders, but isn't there some recognition for capped players from the IRFU? All the provinces have agreed targets and incentives to achieve them.

by TJ Thu 11 Jun 2015, 12:45 pm

So Mr "you are wrong on several counts" A couple of questions?

Have you renewed Mr O'Connels stealth shield that stops him being penalised?

Is Mr Sexton ( what an apt name) still as petulent as ever

Have you remembered to pay the refs properly? - obviously the bill was outstanding during the pro 12 finals.

Sorry - can't think of anything funnier to post in the spirit of the OP Wink

by **rodders** Thu 11 Jun 2015, 1:17 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
rodders wrote:Probably a way of keeping guys on a lower salary

You jest rodders, but isn't there some recognition for capped players from the IRFU? All the provinces have agreed targets and incentives to achieve them.

It was a half joke aukster ... not that I'm cynical of course but rarely are there no reasons behind these things - the IRFU didn't come up with the term and marketing for "emerging Ireland" for nothing one would presume....

by The Great Aukster Thu 11 Jun 2015, 1:19 pm

TJ wrote:Have you renewed Mr O'Connels stealth shield that stops him being penalised?

Is this the mighty Paul O'Connell that thou speaketh of? No truer, purer heart ever graced the field of battle, and nothing underhand would ever come from such a noble knight.
I am unfamiliar with this O'Connel character - perchance noted for duping a Scottish prop? If he dons said shield to stop sanction he is certainly no knight but still one L off a player.

TJ wrote:Is Mr Sexton ( what an apt name) still as petulent as ever

Surely aptness would apply to that muppet Henson - being a church warden and all? As to whether he has a penchant for lending his dog to all and sundry... well it takes all sorts.

TJ wrote:Have you remembered to pay the refs properly? - obviously the bill was outstanding during the pro 12 finals.

Obviously not! You don't seriously think Glasgow would have won the Pro12 had the officials not been 'properly paid'? There is a long game running here that requires an occasional 'upset' in a minor competition to placate rotund tractor boys and the Lord of the Black Stream. When it really matters the green party will be in full swing.

Apology accepted - these are matters of serious import.

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