Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

[Sin é]

First topic message reminder :

What it says in the title - a place to put all bits of news not worth starting a thread for the Four Proud Provinces of Ireland such as new signings, interviews that maybe of interest to others etc.

I've just added on 17 as its not a huge thread.

[Sin é]

I remember a time when Marcus Horan used to get a slagging from non-Munster fans for scoring tries while out on the wing (2 v Schmdt coached Clermont for example).

''A prop had no right to be out there'' some said. ha! How times have changed.

[Sin é]

I think that Notch may be right when he say's that there would be all sorts of banter like that within the Irish squad.

I am a Munster fan and would have a dig at Leinster fans if they were in the same position so can easily accept it from Leinster fans and at the end of the day, BOD may have been Ireland captain but is also a Leinster fan.

The Munster players need to hear stuff like this to help get the passion back into the team. It really does pain me to see Munster play like this as I would have grown up watching and supporting them in Europe when they used to give everything for the jersey.

Look, Munster might be better off in the Challenge Cup for a season to build up their confidence again and regroup. Getting beaten up by the likes of Saracens, Leicester etc. etc. is not going to be good for them.

I'd be more worried about the impact it will have on attendances. It will be a huge financial hit to Munster and the IRFU.

Yeah, if more than some munster fans show themselves to be fickle, attendances could plummet. On the munsterfan boards there is talk of all out mutiny from some people.

The biggest moaners are all renewing their season tickets! While no one is happy about where Munster are, what is causing most angst is the moving to one training centre in Limerick. They are not happy about that in Cork.

[Marshes]

On the plus side to all this doom and gloom around Munster, was impressed with Holland at 10 in his last two games. Nailed a really tough kick after the second try, which could be the end for Keatley. Would be a miracle to come back from where he is now..

[marty2086]

On the plus side to all this doom and gloom around Munster, was impressed with Holland at 10 in his last two games. Nailed a really tough kick after the second try, which could be the end for Keatley. Would be a miracle to come back from where he is now..

The faith shown in Holland is a bit strange compared to the lack of faith shown in Hanrahan when Keatley wasn't setting the world alight last season, especially given the contrast in experience between the two

[rodders]

Give Hanaran has only managed 7 starts at Saints I'd say he's not setting the world alight either.

[marty2086]

Give Hanaran has only managed 7 starts at Saints I'd say he's not setting the world alight either.

I doubt Munster used their crystal ball when they decided to let him go, he was in better form than Keatley last season

[Sin é]

Give Hanaran has only managed 7 starts at Saints I'd say he's not setting the world alight either.

I doubt Munster used their crystal ball when they decided to let him go, he was in better form than Keatley last season

He wasn't better than Keatley. He was injured for the start of the season, started playing in Sept., Munster had a few injuries so he was playing at 12, Keatley was playing well - good enough to start v. Italy in 6Ns.

Hanrahan decided to go to Northampton around Christmas and despite Northampton not going too well, he isn't getting the starts at 10 there either. He is being well paid though for sitting on the bench.

[eirebilly]

Agree with Sin é that JJ was not in better form than Keatley last season but he certainly had far more potential than Keatley in the broader sense, still not happy about him leaving though.

Keatley is a confidence player and I am sure that after certain disgusting sections of the Munster crowd jeered him and subsequently cheered the decision to replace him affected him badly and I am not sure if he will regain his starting position at Munster.

Its early days for Holland but he is showing that he has the potential to be a very good 10 for Munster. I hope he is given an extended run to bed in.

[rodders]

I think personally that fly half is a position that requires experience and mental strength which is built over time - there is definitely and element of both bigging guys up too soon and also scapegoating them in Ireland - ROG, Sexton and Humph all reached their peak late 20's or later.

Madigan and JJ have been built up as the second coming from an early stage and now are being found out as having a long way to go, whereas the like of Keatley and Jackson have been always been under scrutiny - all these guys have potential but need to go through the ups and down to reach the top.

Jackson has been far better treated by Ulster, if not by Ireland, and now this is bearing fruition as he as a wealth of experience beyond the other guys.

[eirebilly]

Jackson, in my opinion, is madly under-rated. He has come on immensely whilst playing in tandem with Ruan. In the beginning it was clear that Ruan was calling the shots but in the last season and a half, is the man directing the game for Ulster.

He more than earned the right to represent Ireland as Sexton's second and for the life of me, I have no idea why he is not being given the chance ahead of Madigan as he is clearly the better 10.

I understand this whole idea of selecting players for their ability to play in several positions which is why Madigan is selected ahead of Jackson, I just feel that there are enough players in the squad to play several positions to allow Jackson to play ahead of Madigan. I truly hope he gets his chance against SA.

[Don Alfonso]

100% agree.

Jackson has just been out there playing, playing, playing. Improving his kicking, improving his game management. Quietly going about his business. Munster fans hyped Hanrahan to the moon, Foley let him go and he's currently underwhelming at the Saints. The hype around Madigan was ludicrous, MOC preferred Gopperth, Leo brought Sexton back and now Madigan is just stinking the place up with his performances before he goes to France.

Joe has ignored Jacko (although he warranted at least one start in the 6N in my opinion), and the Ginger Prince will take that in his stride and continue to improve until Joe has no choice.

[eirebilly]

I will admit to being one Munster fan who hyped up JJ. At the time when he was on form, he looked like being something truly special. I still believe he has the time to live up to expectations as he is a quality player.

[marty2086]

Jackson, in my opinion, is madly under-rated. He has come on immensely whilst playing in tandem with Ruan. In the beginning it was clear that Ruan was calling the shots but in the last season and a half, is the man directing the game for Ulster.

He more than earned the right to represent Ireland as Sexton's second and for the life of me, I have no idea why he is not being given the chance ahead of Madigan as he is clearly the better 10.

I understand this whole idea of selecting players for their ability to play in several positions which is why Madigan is selected ahead of Jackson, I just feel that there are enough players in the squad to play several positions to allow Jackson to play ahead of Madigan. I truly hope he gets his chance against SA.

billy you say its clear that Ruan was calling the shots? Funny if you ask anyone in the Ulster setup, Jackson has been calling the attacks for Ulster for years

[eirebilly]

Just one more thing on JJ. I was not happy to see him go to Saint's, I would much more preferred that he went to Connacht to try and form a partnership with Marmion. Lam would be a great coach for him as he encourages open and attacking play.

[eirebilly]

Jackson, in my opinion, is madly under-rated. He has come on immensely whilst playing in tandem with Ruan. In the beginning it was clear that Ruan was calling the shots but in the last season and a half, is the man directing the game for Ulster.

He more than earned the right to represent Ireland as Sexton's second and for the life of me, I have no idea why he is not being given the chance ahead of Madigan as he is clearly the better 10.

I understand this whole idea of selecting players for their ability to play in several positions which is why Madigan is selected ahead of Jackson, I just feel that there are enough players in the squad to play several positions to allow Jackson to play ahead of Madigan. I truly hope he gets his chance against SA.

billy you say its clear that Ruan was calling the shots? Funny if you ask anyone in the Ulster setup, Jackson has been calling the attacks for Ulster for years

I should have worded that better Marty, it was clear to me. I may be wrong but that's the way I saw it

[Sin é]

100% agree.

Jackson has just been out there playing, playing, playing. Improving his kicking, improving his game management. Quietly going about his business. Munster fans hyped Hanrahan to the moon, Foley let him go and he's currently underwhelming at the Saints. The hype around Madigan was ludicrous, MOC preferred Gopperth, Leo brought Sexton back and now Madigan is just stinking the place up with his performances before he goes to France.

Joe has ignored Jacko (although he warranted at least one start in the 6N in my opinion), and the Ginger Prince will take that in his stride and continue to improve until Joe has no choice.

Not just Munster fans, Hanrahan got a nomination for World Young Player of the Year, hardly surprising that people would hype him a bit. And that was in the U20s team that had Henderson.

edit: Just on Jackson - I suspect the reason Madigan is ahead of him is because of playing with Reddan at club level. That should change now as Marmion progresses.

[Don Alfonso]

Yeah, I maybe sounded more critical than I meant with that - it wasn't a dig. He's certainly not currently performing to the level he can. I'd be delighted to have him at Ulster. Although not for the money he's on at Northampton...

[eirebilly]

Yeah, I maybe sounded more critical than I meant with that - it wasn't a dig. He's certainly not currently performing to the level he can. I'd be delighted to have him at Ulster. Although not for the money he's on at Northampton...

He would be clearly behind Jackson at 10 and since Jackson wont get selected for Ireland duty, going to Ulster would stunt his development

[Sin é]

Yeah, I maybe sounded more critical than I meant with that - it wasn't a dig. He's certainly not currently performing to the level he can. I'd be delighted to have him at Ulster. Although not for the money he's on at Northampton...

I think JJ followed the money. He is just not Northampton's kind of outhalf. He should have known because Shane Geraghty or Ryan Lamb didn't work out there either.

[Golden]

Heenan and Ronaldson extend their contracts with Connacht.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/0419/782829-heenen-and-ronaldson-extend-connacht-contracts/

Great to hear as there was rumours of them letting Heenan go because of his injuries. Hopefully he gets some luck as he is a cracking player.

[Marshes]

Heenan and Ronaldson extend their contracts with Connacht.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/0419/782829-heenen-and-ronaldson-extend-connacht-contracts/

Great to hear as there was rumours of them letting Heenan go because of his injuries. Hopefully he gets some luck as he is a cracking player.

Talk of him going to Munster as well which would have been very disappointing, Connacht have stood by him while he has been injured for lengthy periods. When he does play though he is almost always a standout, fantastic player. Connacht have an embarrasment of riches in the backrow now with Heenan, Fox-Matamua, Muldoon, Masterson, McKeon, Connolly and SOB 2, if everyone were fit it would be a really class player missing out. Honestly one of them may have to move to get gametime (Naopu is already likely leaving) to continue their development.

Ronaldson also has come on leaps and bounds, and for most of the year formed a great partnership with Aki. If he improved his kicking from the tee I would love to have him as a real option at 10.

I think that is all the key contracts sorted now, although Aki next year will be a massive test, he is eligible for Ireland in 2017, but will have plenty of offers I'm sure.

[Marshes]

Here is a question for ye, what players at the provinces do you think may be in line for moves if Mr. Nucifora spots a gap for them elsewhere around the country? Connacht squad for next season:

LH: Buckley, Loughney, JP Cooney
HK: McCartney, Heffernan, Delahunt
TH: Bealham, White, Carey
LK: Dillane, Roux, Marshall, Browne, Qualter
BR: Muldoon, Heenan, Fox, Masterson, McKeon, SOB, Connolly
SH: Marmion, Cooney, Blade.
FH: Boshoff, Carty, O Leary
WG: Healy, Niyi, Poolman, Parata
C: Aki, Ronaldson, Griffin, Robb
FB: TOH, Leader

Not a lot available to throw at other provinces there, although if this player transfer system is going to work I'd say one of the backrow would be a very welcome addition at Ulster. I don't see where else quality would be gained elsewhere.

In terms of what is needed, definitely someone to compete at LH (Dooley from Leinster given the competition he has at LH) and someone for the wing/FB (Rory Scholes would have been great, but maybe Adam Bryne or Niall Morris)

[thebandwagonsociety]

Personally I think a couple of heads from the front row, back row and back 3 of Leinster would be well worth moving.

With the exception of Rory Best, the Irish setup can easily end up being an all Leinster starting front row with an all Leinster front row sitting on the bench (mcgrath-strauss-ross and healy-cronin-furlong). Ross is ancient (even for a prop), hookers are mature but looseheads aren't even in their prime years yet. And the academy is producing talent behind them in Dooley, Treacy, byrnes, etc. With green tinted glasses on an entire starting trio from the first batch should be moved to get top end game time and have the bench for what the bench should be youth and experience, not prime players.

Felix Jones and Andrew Conway both probably stayed at leinster a season or two too long under Rob. Kelleher is going to find himself in a similar position. He'd be a star if given game time.

Back row -- too expensive to hold on to Heaslip, SOB, Ruddock, Ryan, Jordi, Conan, Van der Flier, Leavy and also no opportunity to utilise academy coming through.

[Don Alfonso]

As far as I can work out, the entire "talented back-up player going to another province for game time" quota next season comesto the grand ttotal of Sam Arnold gong to Munster. Who am I missing?

[SecretFly]

His Mother.... who is being transferred to Connacht to make the tea...

[Engine#4]

Not backups per se but from Leinsters point of view they could badly do with some pace out wide (Healy) and I will be interested to see if they sign another outhalf to replace Madigan.  After Sexton there is only Marsh and Byrne.  Keatley could fill a gap there.  Scrum half is also an area of concern.

[Marshes]

As far as I can work out, the entire "talented back-up player going to another province for game time" quota next season comesto the grand ttotal of Sam Arnold gong to Munster.  Who am I missing?

Ah You to Ulster I would say as well..

[Guest]

[Don Alfonso]

As far as I can work out, the entire "talented back-up player going to another province for game time" quota next season comesto the grand ttotal of Sam Arnold gong to Munster.  Who am I missing?

Ah You to Ulster I would say as well..

I wouldn't quite call those the same thing. At all. To be honest, that one kind of stumps me. The press releases were unequivocal - "we don't want to lose Sam, he wants to play here, but the reality is he's just going to stagnate behind all the other guys".

Ah You - no harm to him, but it's baffling.

[geoff999rugby]

Arnold decided to leave Ulster didn't want him to go - he decided 6th choice centre at Ulster was not an attractive place to b.
Nucifora had nothing to do with it.

As to Ah You it is an Ulster punt as they have decided Bronson Ross isn't good enough.
Unless he gets fit, which he isn't at the moment, he will be 4th choice behind Herbst, Lutton and Warwick

[Don Alfonso]

Well, fair play to Sammy Arnold. Bit of drive and ambition.

[JmD]

As far as I can work out, the entire "talented back-up player going to another province for game time" quota next season comesto the grand ttotal of Sam Arnold gong to Munster.  Who am I missing?

IMO Nucifora is a pretender. Talks a big game but doesn't back it up.

[Golden]

Personally I think a couple of heads from the front row, back row and back 3 of Leinster would be well worth moving.

With the exception of Rory Best, the Irish setup can easily end up being an all Leinster starting front row with an all Leinster front row sitting on the bench (mcgrath-strauss-ross and healy-cronin-furlong). Ross is ancient (even for a prop), hookers are mature but looseheads aren't even in their prime years yet. And the academy is producing talent behind them in Dooley, Treacy, byrnes, etc.  With green tinted glasses on an entire starting trio from the first batch should be moved to get top end game time and have the bench for what the bench should be youth and experience, not prime players.

Felix Jones and Andrew Conway both probably stayed at leinster a season or two too long under Rob.  Kelleher is going to find himself in a similar position.  He'd be a star if given game time.

Back row -- too expensive to hold on to Heaslip, SOB, Ruddock, Ryan, Jordi, Conan, Van der Flier, Leavy and also no opportunity to utilise academy coming through.

I would really not like to lose any of those back 3 players. Its been a real weak point for us this year. The two Kearneys haven't exactly been lighting the league up when they have played, McFadden seems to have lost the plot, a bit like Healy (only contribution seems to be on our disciplinary record*) and Kirchener while marginally improved this season has been very unspectacular. Nacewa is the only player that has had a good season in that back 3 and even he has fallen away in the latter part of the season.  

Now granted the likes of Kelleher and Byrne haven't been used that often but I wouldn't like to see any of those younger players been moved unless someone else was coming in.

* Just got another 3 week holiday for his tackle against Edinburgh.

[Rory_Gallagher]

The Leinster back three looks immediately more dangerous when Fitzgerald is fully fit, which isn't very often. I would quite like to see Cian Kelleher get his chance soon, he certainly looks talented and seems to be highly thought of.

Is he more of a winger or a fullback?

[Golden]

The Leinster back three looks immediately more dangerous when Fitzgerald is fully fit, which isn't very often. I would quite like to see Cian Kelleher get his chance soon, he certainly looks talented and seems to be highly thought of.

Is he more of a winger or a fullback?

Absolutely. He completely slipped my mind.


Kelleher is a full back. More opportunities on the wing though

[Marshes]

Adam Bryne also seems to be very taleneted, would Dardis maybe be coming through as well?

[Don Alfonso]

Ringrose up for young player of the year. Dillane not.

HHHMMMMMMMM.......

[marty2086]

Ringrose up for young player of the year.  Dillane not.

HHHMMMMMMMM.......

Not quite sure what he's done to earn that, maybe his fellow pros jumping on the hype train

[geoff999rugby]

Ringrose up for young player of the year.  Dillane not.

HHHMMMMMMMM.......

Not quite sure what he's done to earn that, maybe his fellow pros jumping on the hype train

No he just plays for Leinster rather than Connacht - that's what really counts

[profitius]

2015/16 season breakthrough players (about 5 appearances or more) to the best of my knowledge.


Connacht
Sean O'Brien
James Connolly
Ultan Dillane
Shane O'Leary
Peter Robb
Shane Delahunt
Caolan Blade
Rory Parata


Munster
Rory Scannell
Niall Scannell
Darren Sweetnam
Johnny Holland*
David Johnston


Leinster
Dan Leavy
Cathal Marsh
Josh Van Der Flier
Jams Tracy
Garry Ringrose
Ross Molony
Peter Dooley


Ulster
Kyle McCall
Jacob Stockdale
Sean Reidy
John Andrew



*Johnny Holland does not have 5 appearances this season but he was injured and is first choice now for Munster.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Pretty short and uninspiring list for Ulster, unfortunately. I can't see it changing an awful lot anytime soon either.

[marty2086]

2015/16 season breakthrough players (about 5 appearances or more) to the best of my knowledge.

Ulster
Kyle McCall
Jacob Stockdale
Sean Reidy
John Andrew

You left out Sam Arnold, though hes off to Munster now and Rory Scholes

[profitius]

2015/16 season breakthrough players (about 5 appearances or more) to the best of my knowledge.

Ulster
Kyle McCall
Jacob Stockdale
Sean Reidy
John Andrew

You left out Sam Arnold, though hes off to Munster now and Rory Scholes

Ah yes indeed. Cheers.

[profitius]

Pretty short and uninspiring list for Ulster, unfortunately. I can't see it changing an awful lot anytime soon either.

Plenty of backs rolling off the Ulster production line but few forwards. Theres obviously a flaw in the system somewhere because I don't believe there should be that lack of forwards in Ulster.


A bit like a few years back when Ireland had 2 decent props in the country, the problem has to be identified and corrected. It sounds like a job for Nucifora. That reminds me, he is making changes to underage rugby so maybe that will have a positive effect for Ulster.

[Guest]

Should O'Connor not be on our list? Has had a little game time, before this season, but really only came through once Kiss took over.

[geoff999rugby]

If the criteria is playing 5 or more games both O'Connor and Scholes were last year

[marty2086]

If the criteria is playing 5 or more games both O'Connor and Scholes were last year

You're right Scholes clocked up 5 appearances a few seasons ago, didn't think he'd got that many back then

[geoff999rugby]

Also you can add Nelson to that list this year was his first year starting more than 5 games and before the injury was playing very well.

Streets ahead of Stockdale who was listed.

[profitius]

Rassie Erasmus to Munster it seems. He comes with a top notch CV and it also looks like he has been given the freedom to bring in his own coaches.

[thebandwagonsociety]

Ringrose up for young player of the year.  Dillane not.

HHHMMMMMMMM.......

Not quite sure what he's done to earn that, maybe his fellow pros jumping on the hype train

No he just plays for Leinster rather than Connacht - that's what really counts

Why is it put down as either/or? Both should be on the shortlist (and Dillane should be picking up the award). Hype train is a bit dismissive as well. He has had a strong underage performances being nominated for player of the tournament at the jrwc which isn't a common occurance for Irish youth players. He has also established himself as first choice centre after one season in the senior squad and has picked up MOTM awards for his pro12 displays along the way. Let's give him time to mature and develop. Himself, Molony and Tracy have all had very strong seasons in the league to put Leinster in position '1' as we enter the final rounds.

I'm sure the Ulster centres will put him back in his box when the sides meet.

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