Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

[Sin é]

First topic message reminder :

What it says in the title - a place to put all bits of news not worth starting a thread for the Four Proud Provinces of Ireland such as new signings, interviews that maybe of interest to others etc.

I've just added on 17 as its not a huge thread.

[eirebilly]

Even though Leinster lost to Ulster yesterday, I feel Cullen is getting them back to what we expect from them. That said, Cullen like Foley, may be in the big seat a little too early. I think both would make excellent assistants and in time, excellent head coaches.

[profitius]

Cian Kelleher Leinster > Connacht.

Leinster not happy about it. Nucifora was behind it apparently. Could be a great signing for Connacht because if nothing else, Kelleher is lightening fast

[Golden]

Is that confirmed Prof?  Disappointing from a Leinster POV if true. We must have one of the slowest back 3 in the league.

Hopefully it works out for Kelleher though

[profitius]

As good as confirmed. He could be a massive loss to Leinster. Much better player than Adam Byrne IMO.

[SecretFly]

Kelleher, if he keeps his enthusiasm and works hard, should keep developing nicely.  Going to a good teacher too.  

Cullen?  Even though I hate the idea of 'Directors' - well, Leinster need as fresh a pair of eyes as Munster does.  This thing of anointing Irish coaches with little proven track-record isn't really working.  Great players don't often make great anything after their playing careers...just look at BOD's tweets  They need to prove worth before being dropped into major roles.

I think I know why it all happened though, and it's a balancing the books kinda deal over the last number of seasons - bargain prices in some areas to sustain top price for other areas.  But Leinster now needs to get as serious about their coaching jobs as Munster hopefully now are.

[Sin é]

Interview with David Nucifora in yesterday's Sunday Times.

Couple of things from it.

Nucifora got the job ahead of Eddie Jones!

Some of his comments:
-Any club in Europe would kill for Leinster's playing roster
-IRFU has agreed to inject about 2.5m into Munster (projected loss for this season) but only on the proviso that they work to a Connacht template*, with clear, measurable plans for how academy products will see PRO12 gametime.
-Says players will only move if they want to - can't be forced.

I wonder does that mean Munster can bring in who they like as long as they give academy players gametime?

I think Nucifora is a spoofer (from some of the stuff he said about his time with the ARU (which it is not - none of their players have the same sort of loyalty to their provinces are our lads do), but he is running rugby in Ireland at the moment so we may as well learn to deal with him.

[Sin é]

Kelleher, if he keeps his enthusiasm and works hard, should keep developing nicely.  Going to a good teacher too.  

Cullen?  Even though I hate the idea of 'Directors' - well, Leinster need as fresh a pair of eyes as Munster does.  This thing of anointing Irish coaches with little proven track-record isn't really working.  Great players don't often make great anything after their playing careers...just look at BOD's tweets  They need to prove worth before being dropped into major roles.

I think I know why it all happened though, and it's a balancing the books kinda deal over the last number of seasons - bargain prices in some areas to sustain top price for other areas.  But Leinster now needs to get as serious about their coaching jobs as Munster hopefully now are.

Problem with Irish Provincial coaches that are local - they take too much Poopie from IRFU. Everything Foley tried to do to get leadership and players to cover injuries was foiled by Lucifora to the extent it was crazy that Munster had players they were not allowed play even though one of them was Ireland qualified. Munster nearly lost Keith Earls to Saracens because of IRFU ineptitude.

As far as I can see, dealing with the IRFU is going to be Rassie's biggest challenge when he comes to Munster.

Fly, an Irishman Abroad has done a very extensive interview with ROG. Well worth a listen. I mention it because contrary to the general opinion from hearing what ROG had to say, I would think the best coaches will now come from elite players from key positions (like lock, No. 8 and SH, OH). How can an ex-schoolteacher who hasn't played at an elite level really understand the whole psychology of it. One of the best sports psychologists at the moment is Enda McNulty and what makes him so good is his experience of building something from nothing and being successful. Technical skills are one thing, but the whole sports psychology is just as important.

ROG's podcast episode 137.
https://soundcloud.com/an-irishman-abroad

Very entertainining and informative - talks about The Queen, how the only person in Leinster he trusted was BOD

[SecretFly]

Isn't the Connacht template more their style?  Incisive, attack orientated, high tempo, risk taking rugby?

I think Munster are being told the 'traditions' of solid slow play based mainly on forward bull are over.  Penney went off to yonder fields because it was intimated to him that Munster weren't happy with the ideas and wanted traditional methods more.

I guess IRFU and Nucifora are finally saying Resistance is futile

[SecretFly]

Sin, if an Irish coach proves good enough...even an ex-player...then so be it, he's good enough and I'd be 100% behind him.  The problem is that Cullen has walked into what was one of the top European sides without really any degree of long term experience.  He was a big 'club' name of influence getting a job that you should have more experience for (having served quite a few more years as assistant.)  
Same with Foley.  It's not about them being Irish - it's about them getting jobs too soon Because they are Irish and ex-Provincial stars.  Wrong reasons to get top jobs.  O'Gara is doing it the right way.

Playing is patently quite different to coaching...or else no ex-teachers would ever succeed - and they have, quite a number of them.

[SecretFly]

Very entertainining and informative - talks about The Queen, how the only person in Leinster he trusted was BOD

How many people in Munster does/did he trust?? I'd say O'Gara doesn't trust all that many people regardless of whether they come form Leinster, France, England or Munster. He's his own man.

[Sin é]

Isn't the Connacht template more their style?  Incisive, attack orientated, high tempo, risk taking rugby?

I think Munster are being told the 'traditions' of solid slow play based mainly on forward bull are over.  Penney went off to yonder fields because it was intimated to him that Munster weren't happy with the ideas and wanted traditional methods more.

I guess IRFU and Nucifora are finally saying Resistance is futile

Connacht dont go from side-to-side going nowhere which is what Munster did with Penney. I'd also imagine that bringing in a Saffer would not be the best idea to implement a kiwi style of play in an Irish Province.

I think Nucifora is referring to how, despite having a low of non-local players, Connacht still managed to develop loads of young players. Its not as if Munster don't already have a very young team. Donnacha Ryan will be the only one over 30 next season, the rest average about 26.

[Sin é]

Very entertainining and informative - talks about The Queen, how the only person in Leinster he trusted was BOD

How many people in Munster does/did he trust??  I'd say O'Gara doesn't trust all that many people regardless of whether they come form Leinster, France, England or Munster.  He's his own man.

Listen to the podcast - he talks about how he is perceived and what kind of relationship he had with his team mates. One thing I've noted about ROG - he seems to be very well liked by everyone he has ever played with or against. He is the definition of a team player.

[Sin é]

Sin, if an Irish coach proves good enough...even an ex-player...then so be it, he's good enough and I'd be 100% behind him.  The problem is that Cullen has walked into what was one of the top European sides without really any degree of long term experience.  He was a big 'club' name of influence getting a job that you should have more experience for (having served quite a few more years as assistant.)  
Same with Foley.  It's not about them being Irish - it's about them getting jobs too soon Because they are Irish and ex-Provincial stars.  Wrong reasons to get top jobs.  O'Gara is doing it the right way.

Playing is patently quite different to coaching...or else no ex-teachers would ever succeed - and they have, quite a number of them.

Foley was street ahead of Leo in terms of experience. Interesting that Rassie is just a year older than Foley and look at all he has done

[Sin é]

Playing is patently quite different to coaching...or else no ex-teachers would ever succeed - and they have, quite a number of them.

Most those teacher coaches came through in a different time when there was not half the pressure on them as there is no. Think Gatland is a teacher, but he did have elite experience. Same with Graham Henry for example.

[SecretFly]

Connacht had a good year... maybe induced a little by sides such as Munster and Leinster and a few of the Welsh Regions not having vintage years.

But I'll agree, if the IRFU think its only about 'playing' more young local lads, then they too have it all wrong.  

It's about what you teach them when they Do come in.  It IS about the style of play.  It's about survival and the game has changed.  More sides, even in Europe, are now better adapted to a SH style game of constant tempo, constantly threatening over 80 minutes. More genuine attack, less volume on defending.  

It's simply survival now more than anyone wanting to hark back to old traditions or yearning for SH brand rugby.  In order to survive into the next number of years - Irish rugby has to become more stamina orientated at high tempo - through 80 minutes, and through every game.  It's just no longer an option.

[SecretFly]

Very entertainining and informative - talks about The Queen, how the only person in Leinster he trusted was BOD

How many people in Munster does/did he trust??  I'd say O'Gara doesn't trust all that many people regardless of whether they come form Leinster, France, England or Munster.  He's his own man.

Listen to the podcast - he talks about how he is perceived and what kind of relationship he had with his team mates. One thing I've noted about ROG - he seems to be very well liked by everyone he has ever played with or against. He is the definition of a team player.

You're preaching to the converted Sin

[Sin é]

Connacht had a good year... maybe induced a little by sides such as Munster and Leinster and a few of the Welsh Regions not having vintage years.

But I'll agree, if the IRFU think its only about 'playing' more young local lads, then they too have it all wrong.  

It's about what you teach them when they Do come in.  It IS about the style of play.  It's about survival and the game has changed.  More sides, even in Europe, are now better adapted to a SH style game of constant tempo, constantly threatening over 80 minutes.  More genuine attack, less volume on defending.  

It's simply survival now more than anyone wanting to hark back to old traditions or yearning for SH brand rugby.  In order to survive into the next number of years - Irish rugby has to become more stamina orientated at high tempo - through 80 minutes, and through every game.  It's just no longer an option.

What NH teams are playing an attacking style of rugby that is successful in European Rugby? French have monster packs that strangle everyone. Racing the meanest defence in Chumps Cup. Connacht no doubt are enjoying their rugby, but they are throwing some games away.

[SecretFly]

There you go.... "French have monster packs".... a grand excuse for keeping it with fattish big fellas that either can't or have no inclination to join moves more suited to a backline.
And yet...and yet.... we don't even have bulk enough to copy the 'French' (or South African) blueprint anyway.

So, it's still an argument that insists this is the way rugby wins in Europe - big, slogging fellas thumbling around in the centre of the field with their short-step phase play of ball-out-ball-back in-again.

Resistance continues... despite the futility

[profitius]

Interview with David Nucifora in yesterday's Sunday Times.

Couple of things from it.

Nucifora got the job ahead of Eddie Jones!

Some of his comments:
-Any club in Europe would kill for Leinster's playing roster  
-IRFU has agreed to inject about 2.5m into Munster (projected loss for this season) but only on the proviso that they work to a Connacht template*, with clear, measurable plans for how academy products will see PRO12 gametime.
-Says players will only move if they want to - can't be forced.

I wonder does that mean Munster can bring in who they like as long as they give academy players gametime?

I think Nucifora is a spoofer (from some of the stuff he said about his time with the ARU (which it is not - none of their players have the same sort of loyalty to their provinces are our lads do), but he is running rugby in Ireland at the moment so we may as well learn to deal with him.

He is doing alright. He was brought in to shake things up because for Irish rugby to get to the next level, things needed shaking up.


He is really getting under some people's skin which is good. It means he is doing his job and not being a politician.

[profitius]

Connacht had a good year... maybe induced a little by sides such as Munster and Leinster and a few of the Welsh Regions not having vintage years.

But I'll agree, if the IRFU think its only about 'playing' more young local lads, then they too have it all wrong.  

It's about what you teach them when they Do come in.  It IS about the style of play.  It's about survival and the game has changed.  More sides, even in Europe, are now better adapted to a SH style game of constant tempo, constantly threatening over 80 minutes.  More genuine attack, less volume on defending.  

It's simply survival now more than anyone wanting to hark back to old traditions or yearning for SH brand rugby.  In order to survive into the next number of years - Irish rugby has to become more stamina orientated at high tempo - through 80 minutes, and through every game.  It's just no longer an option.

What NH teams are playing an attacking style of rugby that is successful in European Rugby? French have monster packs that strangle everyone. Racing the meanest defence in Chumps Cup. Connacht no doubt are enjoying their rugby, but they are throwing some games away.

There are few teams playing attacking southern hemisphere style rugby in Europe. All the more reason to adopt it and be ahead of the curve. That's the way the game is going and that's how pro 12 teams can be successful again.


Connacht and Glasgow are leading the way in the pro 12. Munster were headed in that direction but Axel Foley knew better.

[Sin é]

Interview with David Nucifora in yesterday's Sunday Times.

Couple of things from it.

Nucifora got the job ahead of Eddie Jones!

Some of his comments:
-Any club in Europe would kill for Leinster's playing roster  
-IRFU has agreed to inject about 2.5m into Munster (projected loss for this season) but only on the proviso that they work to a Connacht template*, with clear, measurable plans for how academy products will see PRO12 gametime.
-Says players will only move if they want to - can't be forced.

I wonder does that mean Munster can bring in who they like as long as they give academy players gametime?

I think Nucifora is a spoofer (from some of the stuff he said about his time with the ARU (which it is not - none of their players have the same sort of loyalty to their provinces are our lads do), but he is running rugby in Ireland at the moment so we may as well learn to deal with him.

He is doing alright. He was brought in to shake things up because for Irish rugby to get to the next level, things needed shaking up.


He is really getting under some people's skin which is good. It means he is doing his job and not being a politician.

I think he may have had some impact on 7s, but other than that I haven't seen anything yet to say he is doing a good job. With him heading off to Australia on his holidays during the busiest time of the year for contracts which resulted in Munster nearly losing Earls isn't shaking anything up other than he needs to get the finger out.

Just point out 3 good things he has done for 15s in Ireland in the last 2 years?

[SecretFly]

It's hard to fully work out what a guy in his role [Nucifora's] has done in all of two years, Sin.  

Firstly, you'd have to ignore or put to one side the responsibility of others.  

National coaches (I know only too well you blame nothing on Headmaster Joe )?

Provincial coaching? ... Foley and his band of novice coaches?  Cullen and his bunch of merry and not so merry men?  The fuss up in Ulster where they are still trying to settle down under a familiar coach for a few years?

The new European regime, designed to assist AP and Top14, designed to frustrate Pro12?

The increases - major increases! - in competitiveness and a downright athletic explosion of ability through the AP in the last few years?  

The continuing blank chequebook policy in France?

Who is to know what Nucifora has been doing in detail, as I'd assume it'll take a few more years yet to become evident.  Maybe Erasmus coming into Munster is another slice of the beginning?

[Sin é]

This is how Nucifora left Australia:


High performance manager David Nucifora leaves his role at the Australian Rugby Union

Dec 2012.

The Australian Rugby Union has denied there is discontent in the ranks after a second high-profile resignation in 10 weeks, with high performance manager David Nucifora departing his role on Thursday.

Nucifora was a close ally of John O'Neill, who stood down as the managing director and chief executive of the organisation in October.

ARU acting chief executive Matt Carroll said change was a natural part of any organisation.

"I don't think people are unhappy, change occurs all the time in business and sport," Carroll said.

"David has put in place a lot of programs that have taken us forward in 15s and Sevens rugby. The initiatives he has put in place are going to take us a long way into the future.

"He felt it was time to move on, he had done a lot since 2008."

Nevertheless, his departure represents a fresh change and under new ARU chairman Michael Hawker, many see positive improvements being made to the running of the game.

When O'Neill returned to the chief role in 2007 he appointed Nucifora to the high performance job, to oversee plans for the improvement of skills and quality at the top level, alignment between national and state programs and the development of young talent.

Super Rugby franchises had privately expressed frustration with Nucifora's youth academy system, who trained separately and could rarely be used amid injury crises.

Nucifora also caused a stir by campaigning for the ARU to select the head coaches of the franchises like the NZRU does, after frustrations from national and state organisations over the amount of injuries to top players last season.

Nucifora did not return calls.

Carroll said the high performance manager role would remain the same and a new appointee would be made by the end of January.

Meanwhile, the ARU's search for a new chief executive will carry into the new year. Hawker had planned to make an announcement before Christmas but it's understood the board wants more time to consider the candidates.

Carroll is understood to be in the running alongside local figures Jim Carmichael of Queensland and Andrew Fagan of ACT, as well as international names.

[Sin é]

Edit - Nucifora was sacked by the Brumbies after winning a Super Rugby title. Robbie Deans said he was empire building in Australia when he was there.

By the way - he may have it in for Munster - he was the Captain & Hooker of Australia that lost to a Garret Fitz coached Munster side that had Ger Earls in the backrow. Bob Dwyer (coach) said the Claw was 'a disgrace'.

This highlights features Nucifora mistrowing a lineout which Munster took a drop goal from which won them the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pde98-wg2Lg

[SecretFly]

This is how Nucifora left Australia:


High performance manager David Nucifora leaves his role at the Australian Rugby Union

Dec 2012.

The Australian Rugby Union has denied there is discontent in the ranks after a second high-profile resignation in 10 weeks, with high performance manager David Nucifora departing his role on Thursday.

Nucifora was a close ally of John O'Neill, who stood down as the managing director and chief executive of the organisation in October.

ARU acting chief executive Matt Carroll said change was a natural part of any organisation.

"I don't think people are unhappy, change occurs all the time in business and sport," Carroll said.

"David has put in place a lot of programs that have taken us forward in 15s and Sevens rugby. The initiatives he has put in place are going to take us a long way into the future.

"He felt it was time to move on, he had done a lot since 2008."

Nevertheless, his departure represents a fresh change and under new ARU chairman Michael Hawker, many see positive improvements being made to the running of the game.

When O'Neill returned to the chief role in 2007 he appointed Nucifora to the high performance job, to oversee plans for the improvement of skills and quality at the top level, alignment between national and state programs and the development of young talent.

Super Rugby franchises had privately expressed frustration with Nucifora's youth academy system, who trained separately and could rarely be used amid injury crises.

Nucifora also caused a stir by campaigning for the ARU to select the head coaches of the franchises like the NZRU does, after frustrations from national and state organisations over the amount of injuries to top players last season.

Nucifora did not return calls.

Carroll said the high performance manager role would remain the same and a new appointee would be made by the end of January.

Meanwhile, the ARU's search for a new chief executive will carry into the new year. Hawker had planned to make an announcement before Christmas but it's understood the board wants more time to consider the candidates.

Carroll is understood to be in the running alongside local figures Jim Carmichael of Queensland and Andrew Fagan of ACT, as well as international names.

I guess it's a matter of emphasis. On the frustrations of the Super Rugby Franchises concerning the academy system? Isn't that all turned on its head considering what IRFU are now 'demanding' from Munster...I'm sure with Nucifora's blessing? Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't?

[Sin é]

How many of Connacht's academy graduates actually come from Connacht? For instance, Marmion is from Exiles, Dillane was recruited from Munster with a full academy contract and some sort of a sports scholarship to UCG for himself and his brother. Then most of the Connacht squad is made up of SH players who are brought to Ireland hoping they might get an international cap here.

Is that the template they want Munster to follow?

[Notch]

By the way - he may have it in for Munster - he was the Captain & Hooker of Australia that lost to a Garret Fitz coached Munster side that had Ger Earls in the backrow. Bob Dwyer (coach) said the Claw was 'a disgrace'.    

And now he completes the last stage in his heinous revenge!

Priceless...

[profitius]

This is how Nucifora left Australia:


High performance manager David Nucifora leaves his role at the Australian Rugby Union

Dec 2012.

The Australian Rugby Union has denied there is discontent in the ranks after a second high-profile resignation in 10 weeks, with high performance manager David Nucifora departing his role on Thursday.

Nucifora was a close ally of John O'Neill, who stood down as the managing director and chief executive of the organisation in October.

ARU acting chief executive Matt Carroll said change was a natural part of any organisation.

"I don't think people are unhappy, change occurs all the time in business and sport," Carroll said.

"David has put in place a lot of programs that have taken us forward in 15s and Sevens rugby. The initiatives he has put in place are going to take us a long way into the future.

"He felt it was time to move on, he had done a lot since 2008."

Nevertheless, his departure represents a fresh change and under new ARU chairman Michael Hawker, many see positive improvements being made to the running of the game.

When O'Neill returned to the chief role in 2007 he appointed Nucifora to the high performance job, to oversee plans for the improvement of skills and quality at the top level, alignment between national and state programs and the development of young talent.

Super Rugby franchises had privately expressed frustration with Nucifora's youth academy system, who trained separately and could rarely be used amid injury crises.

Nucifora also caused a stir by campaigning for the ARU to select the head coaches of the franchises like the NZRU does, after frustrations from national and state organisations over the amount of injuries to top players last season.

Nucifora did not return calls.

Carroll said the high performance manager role would remain the same and a new appointee would be made by the end of January.

Meanwhile, the ARU's search for a new chief executive will carry into the new year. Hawker had planned to make an announcement before Christmas but it's understood the board wants more time to consider the candidates.

Carroll is understood to be in the running alongside local figures Jim Carmichael of Queensland and Andrew Fagan of ACT, as well as international names.

Australia didn't do too badly in the last world cup despite having severe financial difficulties and competing with other sports for players.

[Sin é]

Nucifora resigned from ARU in 2012. Cheika was the one who sorted the Wallabies by sorting discipline and bringing back in guys like Matt Giteau. It seems Cheika isn't a fan of Nucifora either.

Nucifora coached the Australia U20s at one stage for them to finished 8th at the World Cup - their worst finish ever.

[LeinsterFan4life]

The IRFU announce the they are giving each province an extra 1 million euro over the next two years to compete with the super clubs...What's the point if we aren't allowed sign players? Leinster have already been blocked from signing a scrumhalf.

[Guest]

Coaching upgrades?

[Sin é]

The IRFU announce the they are giving each province an extra 1 million euro over the next two years to compete with the super clubs...What's the point if we aren't allowed sign players? Leinster have already been blocked from signing a scrumhalf.

Its a bit of a joke alright. Munster need a top class tighthead and we get John Andress

[LeinsterFan4life]

The IRFU announce the they are giving each province an extra 1 million euro over the next two years to compete with the super clubs...What's the point if we aren't allowed sign players? Leinster have already been blocked from signing a scrumhalf.

Its a bit of a joke alright. Munster need a top class tighthead and we get John Andress

Another year of the provinces being humiliated in Europe should finally wake the IRFU up. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[Sin é]

The IRFU announce the they are giving each province an extra 1 million euro over the next two years to compete with the super clubs...What's the point if we aren't allowed sign players? Leinster have already been blocked from signing a scrumhalf.

Its a bit of a joke alright. Munster need a top class tighthead and we get John Andress

Another year of the provinces being humiliated in Europe should finally wake the IRFU up. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Its hard to figure out what they are up to. I just don't get how Nucifora got the job in the first place because he has left a trail of destruction behind him elsewhere.

Interesting comment about the Blues 2006 (coached by Nucifora & Joe Schmidt)

The Blues have been criticised for not employing the game-breaking skills of wingers Joe Rokocoko and Doug Howlett, a point Fisher was keen to push.

"They probably haven't been as adventurous out wide and on counter attack," he said.

"Maybe that's because they haven't got Mils Muliaina (who joined the Chiefs). They really haven't used Rokocoko and Howlett and the pace they've got on the edges.

[profitius]

Nucifora resigned from ARU in 2012. Cheika was the one who sorted the Wallabies by sorting discipline and bringing back in guys like Matt Giteau. It seems Cheika isn't a fan of Nucifora either.

Nucifora coached the Australia U20s at one stage for them to finished 8th at the World Cup - their worst finish ever.

He's not coaching though.


I can see why you don't like him. Fans want more of everything and want it now. Nuciforas job is to force the provinces to be self sufficient. Munster have to sign Andreas because for years they neglected tighthead development pathways.

[profitius]

Coaching upgrades?

Could be. I think Munster, Ulster and Leinster need some upgrading. No point signing players if there's nobody to get the best out of them. I'd say Connachts success has opened a few eyes.

[Guest]

I would like to think so, prof.

Agree that we all need upgrading. Ulster could do with a forwards coach, and Cullen probably needs someone else to come in and coach the backs. Hopefully Munster will be sorted before the next season starts, by adding to the recent excellent signing of DoR.

[marty2086]

Nucifora resigned from ARU in 2012. Cheika was the one who sorted the Wallabies by sorting discipline and bringing back in guys like Matt Giteau. It seems Cheika isn't a fan of Nucifora either.

Nucifora coached the Australia U20s at one stage for them to finished 8th at the World Cup - their worst finish ever.

He's not coaching though.


I can see why you don't like him. Fans want more of everything and want it now. Nuciforas job is to force the provinces to be self sufficient. Munster have to sign Andreas because for years they neglected tighthead development pathways.

Self sufficiency relies on success though, it draws in the sponsors and income from attendances just look at Toulon. According to Mourad they are self sufficient and have built the structures for the club to sustain and grow without the need for him to inject cash into it. This is in a town of around 160k though Im sure the tv revenue helps there

[Sin é]

Nucifora resigned from ARU in 2012. Cheika was the one who sorted the Wallabies by sorting discipline and bringing back in guys like Matt Giteau. It seems Cheika isn't a fan of Nucifora either.

Nucifora coached the Australia U20s at one stage for them to finished 8th at the World Cup - their worst finish ever.

He's not coaching though.


I can see why you don't like him. Fans want more of everything and want it now. Nuciforas job is to force the provinces to be self sufficient. Munster have to sign Andreas because for years they neglected tighthead development pathways.

I'm only asking for a decent tighthead because the ones we have are fairly injury prone (Archer) and or inexperienced (Ryan) and it is a key position. I'd be happy enough with Archer but would worry about his injury.

Munster's situation was critical at TH last year with both Archer & BJ injured which left John Ryan who as our main TH who was developing as a loosehead.

While our props may not be world class, we have developed Kilcoyne, Archer, Cronin & now Ryan as fairly decent options. No matter how hard Erasmus or Munster try, none of them are going to turn into a world class option and that is what we need.

Just for the record, last weekend & v. Leinster, I think Munster's match day squad had one NIQ starting (Saili). The 2 Scannels, Jack O'Donoghue, Sweetnam have all stood up to the plate in the last season which isn't bad going. Conway has really developed well and is playing great stuff at the moment, so I'd say Munster are as self-sufficient as any of the Provinces - at least we seem to be producing players in all positions, not just front rows or centres/backs as with Leinster & Ulster.

[marty2086]

Just for the record, last weekend & v. Leinster, I think Munster's match day squad had one NIQ starting (Saili). The 2 Scannels, Jack O'Donoghue, Sweetnam have all stood up to the plate in the last season which isn't bad going. Conway has really developed well and is playing great stuff at the moment, so I'd say Munster are as self-sufficient as any of the Provinces - at least we seem to be producing players in all positions, not just front rows or centres/backs as with Leinster & Ulster.

Really? What would you consider producing? Leinster seem to have a conveyor belt of back rows, they have a few young locks coming through as well. Ulster have Alan O'Connor at lock and Henderson who can cover back row and lock so who isn't producing?

[Sin é]

Leinster's locks have yet to come through. They have produced one lock (Toner) in the last 10 years. Who knows how their young locks will work out. They have brought Ian Nagle (ex-Munster academy in also to supplement their lock supply). As for their backrows - there is a bit of hype over them just yet. Jordi Murphy was highly rated in Leinster - he is now on his way to Nothingham. JdeF, Ruddock are good players, but no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while (such as POM, TOD, JOD, CJ, Butler, DOC).

As for Ulster - Henderson is great, but he is only one top class forward that Ulster have produced since Ferris.

[marty2086]

Leinster's locks have yet to come through. They have produced one lock (Toner) in the last 10 years. Who knows how their young locks will work out. They have brought Ian Nagle (ex-Munster academy in also to supplement their lock supply).  As for their backrows - there is a bit of hype over them just yet. Jordi Murphy was highly rated in Leinster - he is now on his way to Nothingham. JdeF, Ruddock are good players, but no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while (such as POM, TOD, JOD, CJ, Butler, DOC).

As for Ulster - Henderson is great, but he is only one top class forward that Ulster have produced since Ferris.

Most of the Munster names have done well for a short period but have not advanced beyond the level of those you are talking down so it seems you are applying different standards

Where did you hear Murphys off to Nottingham?

[Sin é]

Leinster's locks have yet to come through. They have produced one lock (Toner) in the last 10 years. Who knows how their young locks will work out. They have brought Ian Nagle (ex-Munster academy in also to supplement their lock supply).  As for their backrows - there is a bit of hype over them just yet. Jordi Murphy was highly rated in Leinster - he is now on his way to Nothingham. JdeF, Ruddock are good players, but no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while (such as POM, TOD, JOD, CJ, Butler, DOC).

As for Ulster - Henderson is great, but he is only one top class forward that Ulster have produced since Ferris.

Most of the Munster names have done well for a short period but have not advanced beyond the level of those you are talking down so it seems you are applying different standards

Where did you hear Murphys off to Nottingham?

I said that they were no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while though POM and CJ are ahead of Ruddock, JdeF & Henderson in the backrow.

Sorry, made a mistake - meant to say Jordan Coughlan is on his way to Nottingham (not Jordi Murphy, who has had very poor form and has been way over hyped).

Coughlan was sent to Munster to cover TOD at 7 when Butler & Dougall went to Pau - he isn't a 7.

By the way, Butler is doing great with Pau. Made Top 14 team of the week there recently. I'd expect him back the season after next.

[SecretFly]

That one big mistake there sin.... Jordi Murphy and Jordan Coughlan. Easy does it...Leinster fans are feeling a tad vulnerable right now
BTW..I hear Keith has actually decided to move to France after all...........................


Keith Chegwin, that is............... well, he's looking at house prices anyway. Will keep you all informed on progress.

[Golden]

Leinster's locks have yet to come through. They have produced one lock (Toner) in the last 10 years. Who knows how their young locks will work out. They have brought Ian Nagle (ex-Munster academy in also to supplement their lock supply).  As for their backrows - there is a bit of hype over them just yet. Jordi Murphy was highly rated in Leinster - he is now on his way to Nothingham. JdeF, Ruddock are good players, but no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while (such as POM, TOD, JOD, CJ, Butler, DOC).

As for Ulster - Henderson is great, but he is only one top class forward that Ulster have produced since Ferris.

Most of the Munster names have done well for a short period but have not advanced beyond the level of those you are talking down so it seems you are applying different standards

Where did you hear Murphys off to Nottingham?

I said that they were no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while though POM and CJ are ahead of Ruddock, JdeF & Henderson in the backrow.

Sorry, made a mistake - meant to say Jordan Coughlan is on his way to Nottingham (not Jordi Murphy, who has had very poor form and has been way over hyped).

Coughlan was sent to Munster to cover TOD at 7 when Butler & Dougall went to Pau - he isn't a 7.

By the way, Butler is doing great with Pau. Made Top 14 team of the week there recently. I'd expect him back the season after next.

Ah come on Sin, your not saying Munster developed CJ?  

Thought Coughlan went to Munster during his stint as a centre. Could be wrong on that though.  Was getting worried when you said Jordi to Nottingham. Whatever about his current form hes well above that level.

Anyone know if Connacht are going to have to fall in line with the NIQ quotas now that they are successful?

[marty2086]

Anyone know if Connacht are going to have to fall in line with the NIQ quotas now that they are successful?

Been wondering the same myself about Connacht, they have a number of NIQ players becoming IQ over the next 18 months.

Im sure when it happens it will be phased in, maybe allowing them a few extra NIQ coming down over a number of years plus increased funding.

Hopefully their attendances can keep growing and that will be a big help for them but it will probably be contingent on them meeting criteria over a period of time rather than a season.

[Sin é]

Leinster's locks have yet to come through. They have produced one lock (Toner) in the last 10 years. Who knows how their young locks will work out. They have brought Ian Nagle (ex-Munster academy in also to supplement their lock supply).  As for their backrows - there is a bit of hype over them just yet. Jordi Murphy was highly rated in Leinster - he is now on his way to Nothingham. JdeF, Ruddock are good players, but no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while (such as POM, TOD, JOD, CJ, Butler, DOC).

As for Ulster - Henderson is great, but he is only one top class forward that Ulster have produced since Ferris.

Most of the Munster names have done well for a short period but have not advanced beyond the level of those you are talking down so it seems you are applying different standards

Where did you hear Murphys off to Nottingham?

I said that they were no better than anything Munster have produced in the last while though POM and CJ are ahead of Ruddock, JdeF & Henderson in the backrow.

Sorry, made a mistake - meant to say Jordan Coughlan is on his way to Nottingham (not Jordi Murphy, who has had very poor form and has been way over hyped).

Coughlan was sent to Munster to cover TOD at 7 when Butler & Dougall went to Pau - he isn't a 7.

By the way, Butler is doing great with Pau. Made Top 14 team of the week there recently. I'd expect him back the season after next.

Ah come on Sin, your not saying Munster developed CJ?  

Thought Coughlan went to Munster during his stint as a centre. Could be wrong on that though.  Was getting worried when you said Jordi to Nottingham. Whatever about his current form hes well above that level.

Anyone know if Connacht are going to have to fall in line with the NIQ quotas now that they are successful?

Yes. He arrived as a 21 year old and didn't start regularly for Munster until the end of his 2nd season. Coughlan came as cover for TOD (who is still or only 7). Dougall & Paddy Butler went to Pau.

I

[Golden]

He arrived in Munster having played 36 times for the Blue Bulls in the Currie Cup, 16 times for the Bulls in the Super XV, captained the under 20s and had trained with the senior SA squad so I really don't think you can say Munster produced him.

My mistake regarding Coughlan.

[Sin é]

He arrived in Munster having played 36 times for the Blue Bulls in the Currie Cup, 16 times for the Bulls in the Super XV, captained the under 20s and had trained with the senior SA squad so I really don't think you can say Munster produced him.

My mistake regarding Coughlan.

He was told by SA that he should become a hooker - thats how well developed they thought he was.

[SecretFly]

There are operations to remove excess baggage from the chest area...even for men, I hear.

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