France v Scotland, 5 September

by **George Carlin** Sun 30 Aug 2015, 8:25 am

First topic message reminder :

France v Scotland, 5 September - Page 3 France11

France v Scotland, 5 September - Page 3 Scot_f10

FRANCE v SCOTLAND
5 September 2015
21:00 CEST (UTC+02)
Stade de France, Saint-Denis

Live on BT Sport 1

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Touch judges: JP Doyle (England) Luke Pearce (England)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

88 Played 88
51 Won 34
3 Drawn 3
34 Lost 51
1,243 Points 1,057

B. Recent Form

7 February 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
15 – 8 France

8 March 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 19 France

16 March 2013
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
23 – 16 France

26 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 23 France

5 February 2011
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
34 – 21 France

7 February 2010
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 18 France

14 February 2009
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
22 – 13 France

3 February 2008
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 27 France

17 March 2007
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
46 – 19 France

5 February 2006
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
20 – 16 Scotland

C. Teams

FRANCE
France v Scotland, 5 September - Page 3 Evagre10

France v Scotland, 5 September - Page 3 Evagre10

15 Scott Spedding
14 Yoann Huget
13 Fat Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Noa Nakaitaci
10 Freddie Michalak
09 Sebastien Tillous Borde

08 Louis Picamoles
07 Damien Chouly
06 Thierry Dusautoir (C)
05 Alexando Flanquart
04 Pascal Pape
03 Rabeh Slimani
02 Guilhem Guirado
01 Eddy Ben Arous

16 D. Dzarzewski
17 V Debaty
18 N Mas
19 B Le Roux
20 Y Nyanga
21 M Parra
22 R Tales
23 A Damoulin

SCOTLAND
France v Scotland, 5 September - Page 3 Sharle10

France v Scotland, 5 September - Page 3 Sharle10

15 Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 28 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 20 caps; 9 tries, 45 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps; 1 try, 2 cons, 9 points
09 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 40 caps; 3 tries, 43 cons, 85 pens, 356 points

01 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 46 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 88 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
03 Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
04 Richie Gray (Castres) – 45 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps; 1 try, 5 points
06 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
07 John Hardie (unattached) – 1 cap
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 27 caps

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
18 Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 6 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
20 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 45 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 7 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps, 1 try, 6 cons, 9 pens, 1 drop, 47 points
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 96 caps, 14 tries, 70 points

by whocares Tue 01 Sep 2015, 9:32 am

wow thought he would have recovered after 6 month, good luck to him.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 9:33 am

whocares wrote:wow thought he would have recovered after 6 month, good luck to him.

He ruptured his cruciate ligament - 6 months would be a quick recovery!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Sep 2015, 10:31 am

It would really tell us something about Cotter if both Barclay and Cowan were to miss out for Blake and Ashe. It would tell us that he trusts his instincts about players more than actual performance on the rugby field, and that these warm-ups were not for selection purposes but in order to condition the squad.

If Strokosch makes the squad I will seriously question my decision to buy a ticket!

by tigertattie Tue 01 Sep 2015, 10:43 am

If Barclay misses out to either Strokosch or Blake then I'd seriously question Cotter as a selector and wodner if the strings are being pulled bu someone else in the SRU!

This is all hearsay though! We need to see what the squad is before we start nit picking!

by Weegie Wizard Tue 01 Sep 2015, 11:11 am

I think Hardie will make it as it would be very strange indeed to move him over from NZ a couple of weeks before the squad is announced, give him a game in which he played well then leave him out.

I think we will get

Dickinson, Nel, Welsh, Reid, Grant
Ford, McInally, Brown
Gray, Gray, GIlchrist, Harley
Strauss, Denton, Barclay, Hardie, Cowan

Sam H-C, Laidlaw, Pyrgos
Russell, Jackson
Bennett, Horne, Scott, Vernon
Maitland, Visser, Seymour, Hogg, Lamont

If Dunbar is fit then Vernon will make room for him. The only other change I would like would be Wilson in for Cowan.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Sep 2015, 11:25 am

Weegie Wizard wrote:I think Hardie will make it as it would be very strange indeed to move him over from NZ a couple of weeks before the squad is announced, give him a game in which he played well then leave him out.

The strange part is moving him to Scotland in the middle of the training camp to play for a country he's never been to with a group of players he's never met. Leaving him out of the squad would be the first sign of sanity in the whole ridiculous affair!!

Still, you're probably right. Cotter strikes me as a coach who knows his own mind and the type of player he wants. I hope he's right!

by R!skysports Tue 01 Sep 2015, 11:30 am

tigertattie wrote:If Barclay misses out to either Strokosch or Blake then I'd seriously question Cotter as a selector and wodner if the strings are being pulled bu someone else in the SRU!

This is all hearsay though! We need to see what the squad is before we start nit picking!

Where is the fun in that ?

by madmaccas Tue 01 Sep 2015, 11:59 am

Here's the full article.

If Wrighty is commenting on it then I'd be inclined to believe it.

Some howlers there.

Daily Mail wrote:Vern Cotter has controversially axed both Blair Cowan and John Barclay from his Scotland squad for the World Cup.

Sportsmail understands the national side’s head coach has once again displayed his ruthless streak by discarding the two No 7s and opting for New Zealand-born openside John Hardie, who only came into the Scotland reckoning in July.

Cotter will announce his final 31-man squad for the showpiece occasion this afternoon but the Kiwi has made other contentious decisions that are sure to shock supporters.

PROBABLE SCOTLAND SQUAD

FORWARDS: Dickinson, Grant, Nel, Reid, Welsh, F Brown, Ford, McInally, J Gray, r Gray, Gilchrist, Swinson, Denton, Strauss, Wilson, Hardie, Strokosch.

BACKS: Laidlaw, Pyrgos, Hidalgo-Clyne, Russell, Weir, Bennett, Scott, Horne, Vernon, Hogg, Lamont, Maitland, Seymour, Visser.

Second row Rob Harley is also axed, with his place being taken by his Glasgow Warriors team-mate Tim Swinson, who missed all three World Cup warm-up matches through injury. Ruaridh Jackson, Adam Ashe, Greig Tonks, Jim Hamilton and Hugh Blake also all miss out.

However, it is the decision to include Hardie at the expense of Barclay and Cowan, who had been Cotter’s first-choice openside since he took over last summer, that will cause most controversy.

Hardie, who qualifies to play for Scotland through his grandparents, made no secret of his desire to pull on an All Black jersey. But, when it became apparent that was not going to happen, he finally switched allegiance to Scotland in time for World Cup selection after repeated approaches by the SRU.

The 27-year-old has played just 57 minutes in what was his debut over Italy in Turin two weeks ago before he had to go off injured.

Cotter’s decision to overlook Barclay in particular has angered former Scotland and British & Irish Lion prop Peter Wright who insists his non-selection makes a mockery of claiming that World Cup warm-up games counted towards selection.

‘Barclay played superbly against Italy at the weekend and scored a great try,’ said Wright. ‘He was among the best players on the park yet, a few days later, he is told he is surplus to requirements.

‘That is an absolute disgrace and he doesn’t deserve that treatment.

‘What is the point of saying warm-up games are a way for the players to put their hands up for World Cup selection when that hasn’t happened in Barclay’s case?

‘I would have taken him to the World Cup, no question, as he is a top player who could make an impact.

‘But here we have him not selected, yet a man (Hardie) who was parachuted into the squad from New Zealand a month ago and hasn’t finished a game for Scotland, gets into the squad.

‘That sends out the wrong message to young Scottish players coming through and I don’t think it will sit well with the fans.’

by madmaccas Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:00 pm

If he really does take Swinson, Wilson and Stroker then I'll be seriously peed off.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:02 pm

Swinson??

Surely this isn't a credible article...

by madmaccas Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:03 pm

I'm further inclined to believe this as Jim Hamilton's Instagram shots were of him and Blair Cowan drinking in London. Sh1t the bed steam

by **George Carlin** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:09 pm

Madder than a box of sausages.

Strokosch instead of Barclay is bewildering.

The interview with Wright makes it sound as though the pro community already knows about this. He and the paper are going to look spectacularly stupid if they're wrong about this...

by jimbopip Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:15 pm

madmaccas wrote:I'm further inclined to believe this as Jim Hamilton's Instagram shots were of him and Blair Cowan drinking in London. Sh1t the bed

I was getting myself seriously worked up until the comment above. If Cowan was drowning his sorrows with Hagrid on Sunday night then it would have been commented on, surely. I know that Big Jim, allegedly, posted pix of himself in high dudgeon and then removed them from his account. I just cannot believe that no-one noticed the kiwi bloke with the big hair and the long face in the frame.

And we're meant to believe that Cotter drops Hagrid, Harley and whichever Luvvie second row was holding the tackle bags to bring in Swinson. picard

Keeping Strokes and letting Harley go.

It's all a wind up.

by R!skysports Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:17 pm

StroTosh is very likely to go, as he seems to be a favourite of Vern

Picking Hardie is going to cause rumblings, as it will highlight the entire farce that is international rugby now. We may as well turn it into club rugby and just buy in players

If this is the team and Swinson, StroTosh and Hardie go, then we had better get out of the group - otherwise - it is time to really consider change teams to support

by cakeordeath Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:31 pm

I am calling bullsh1t on the DailyFail story. What has Swinson done to deserve his place ahead of Harley or Toolis

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:32 pm

I was cynical because it was the Daily Mail, who aren't the greatest purveyors of factual news. It's when there was a quote from Peter Wright in there... that's what worried me...

It is an utter farce and disgrace if Baldy McUseless is picked over Barclay. The Swinson bit is baffling, I think that might be Mail false information... at least I hope it is...

I thought the Cotter era would bring an end to irrational favouritism but it seems he's either determined to coach a NZ B side or just really hates the fact John Barclay has hair so has picked a baldy brother.

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:39 pm

Any ideas what I can write on a protest banner at Kingsholm?

by IanBru Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:39 pm

It has to be said, Peter Wright is very much on the outside of the SRU tent - similarly to Craig Chalmers, he can't quite seem to keep his maw closed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that the Fail went to him for comments on their 'story' (and that's all it is at the moment) as he made his feelings well known when Hardie was first added to the squad.

I don't necessarily think that a quote from Peter Wright makes it any more credible.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:39 pm

To be honest, the Swinson and Strokosh inclusion would annoy me more than Hardie over Barclay - I could at least see that coming!

by Weegie Wizard Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:40 pm

This would even make me feel sorry for Hugh Blake

by R!skysports Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:43 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Any ideas what I can write on a protest banner at Kingsholm?

Cotters sleeps with Otters

Scotland is a Northern Hemisphere country

He came, he saw, he changed his allegiance

Being Scottish is an honour - playing for Scotland is a lottery

by EWT Spoons Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:46 pm

Weegie Wizard wrote:This would even make me feel sorry for Hugh Blake

I wouldn't go that far.

I'm of a similar mindset to RDW, in that I could at least see Hardie getting picked ahead of Barclay, but Swinson and Stokosh would just be very random.

No idea how he could justify that decision.

Do you all remember the heydays, when we thought Cotter would pick sensible players for his teams, this 'potential' WC announcement seems to go against that.

by cakeordeath Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:47 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:To be honest, the Swinson and Strokosh inclusion would annoy me more than Hardie over Barclay - I could at least see that coming!

^This.

I think it is harsh on Barclay, but I believe Hardie is a better player. Not that is matters, given Hardie loves to get injured Barclay will be in the squad in no time.

by tigertattie Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:47 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Any ideas what I can write on a protest banner at Kingsholm?

"If Barclay and Brown learn to say 'feesh and cheeps' instead of 'fish n chips' - will they get to play next time?"

by cakeordeath Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:48 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
Weegie Wizard wrote:This would even make me feel sorry for Hugh Blake

I wouldn't go that far.

I'm of a similar mindset to RDW, in that I could at least see Hardie getting picked ahead of Barclay, but Swinson and Stokosh would just be very random.

No idea how he could justify that decision.

Do you all remember the heydays, when we thought Cotter would pick sensible players for his teams, this 'potential' WC announcement seems to go against that.

To be fair he still might. It's all rumours and spy talk

by EWT Spoons Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:54 pm

cakeordeath wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
Weegie Wizard wrote:This would even make me feel sorry for Hugh Blake

I wouldn't go that far.

I'm of a similar mindset to RDW, in that I could at least see Hardie getting picked ahead of Barclay, but Swinson and Stokosh would just be very random.

No idea how he could justify that decision.

Do you all remember the heydays, when we thought Cotter would pick sensible players for his teams, this 'potential' WC announcement seems to go against that.

To be fair he still might. It's all rumours and spy talk

And I'm very much clinging to the hope that the dailyfail are way off on this one. But I suspect Peter Wright will still have some 'sources' in the national set up (or someone he know's/used to play with will) and I suspect it's probably going to be pretty accurate.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:56 pm

cakeordeath wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
Weegie Wizard wrote:This would even make me feel sorry for Hugh Blake

I wouldn't go that far.

I'm of a similar mindset to RDW, in that I could at least see Hardie getting picked ahead of Barclay, but Swinson and Stokosh would just be very random.

No idea how he could justify that decision.

Do you all remember the heydays, when we thought Cotter would pick sensible players for his teams, this 'potential' WC announcement seems to go against that.

To be fair he still might. It's all rumours and spy talk

It's circulated by Sir Dodson himself. They'll be announcing Andy Robinson as backs coach soon.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:58 pm

The squad has already been issued to the IRB – there’s plenty scope for leaks to have come out from that process.

Plus the journalist in question seems to be well respected by the players – he will no doubt have his inside men too.

This is gearing up to be as disappointing a squad announcement the last Lions tour…

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:58 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
cakeordeath wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
Weegie Wizard wrote:This would even make me feel sorry for Hugh Blake

I wouldn't go that far.

I'm of a similar mindset to RDW, in that I could at least see Hardie getting picked ahead of Barclay, but Swinson and Stokosh would just be very random.

No idea how he could justify that decision.

Do you all remember the heydays, when we thought Cotter would pick sensible players for his teams, this 'potential' WC announcement seems to go against that.

To be fair he still might. It's all rumours and spy talk

It's circulated by Sir Dodson himself. They'll be announcing Andy Robinson as backs coach soon.

I heard they went for Graeme Morrison, although perhaps that was simply specialist skills coach. Parks will coach the forwards, focusing on breakdown skills, with Kenny Logan working with the wingers on speed training.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Sep 2015, 12:59 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:The squad has already been issued to the IRB – there’s plenty scope for leaks to have come out from that process.

Plus the journalist in question seems to be well respected by the players – he will no doubt have his inside men too.

This is gearing up to be as disappointing a squad announcement the last Lions tour…

But the Lions won. Don't let those Irish tell you otherwise!

by cheapshot Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:04 pm

I can't find a link but apparently the DailyFail called the Wales squad incorrectly. They missed Corey Allen and said Jake Ball had been omitted. There is still hope!

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:09 pm

I'm trying not to despair over the next hour over the potentially awful squad that'll be unveiled.

It's not over until the bald New Zealander mumbles his choices awkwardly!

I have a feeling I'll have to hold back a torrent of expletives NSFW.

by whocares Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:21 pm

I assume Strokosh can be play 8 as well as flanker hence his selection.

by Guest Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:22 pm

When is the squad actually announced? I can't get on with work properly 'till I just know ...

If it *is* as bad as the article implies, we should still wait and see how the matches go. Obviously Strockosh and Swinson will not be part of the match day 23 but maybe it's thought they will do a better job against Japan and USA for whatever reason, etc etc.

Although must be said I'm not a fan of all the parachuted players. It's not long till half the match day squad knows very little about the country they're playing for ...

Risky, love "Being Scottish is an honour - playing for Scotland is a lottery"

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:25 pm

whocares wrote:I assume Strokosh can be play 8 as well as flanker hence his selection.

Well, no he can't really. Certainly not to international standard.

by **George Carlin** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:26 pm

Strokosch can barely play blindside, never mind any other position.

If a player who wasn't even in the training squad gets chosen, does this make the choice even more morally inferior than choosing Hardie or Blake who (for all of their other issues) *were* in the training squad. Headscratch

Here, it's conundrum and I am not ever sure who is on the moral high ground now.

Apart from the Welsh, obviously.

by Guest Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:26 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
whocares wrote:I assume Strokosh can be play 8 as well as flanker hence his selection.

Well, no he can't really. Certainly not to international standard.

Or even to Top 14 standard.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:28 pm

Ineffable wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
whocares wrote:I assume Strokosh can be play 8 as well as flanker hence his selection.

Well, no he can't really. Certainly not to international standard.

Or even to Top 14 standard.

He'd make a good bouncer though...

by EWT Spoons Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:30 pm

Ineffable wrote:When is the squad actually announced? I can't get on with work properly 'till I just know ...

If it *is* as bad as the article implies, we should still wait and see how the matches go. Obviously Strockosh and Swinson will not be part of the match day 23 but maybe it's thought they will do a better job against Japan and USA for whatever reason, etc etc.

Although must be said I'm not a fan of all the parachuted players. It's not long till half the match day squad knows very little about the country they're playing for ...

Risky, love "Being Scottish is an honour - playing for Scotland is a lottery"

2.15 it starts apparently.

Transfer deadline day and the WC squad annoucement, I'm going to be very unproductive at work today...even more than normal.

by **George Carlin** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:38 pm

Yes, annoucement at 2.30 in an expensive Edinburgh postcode.
I also cannot concentrate.

It's a bizarre world where we are considering whether we'd rather have Tiny Timothy Swinson in his correct position or Big Angry Fluroescent Robert in an incorrect position but at only one stone too light to be an international lock rather than Swinson's five or so.

I would actually take Harley for his line-out ability.

I have no problem with Cowan not travelling, incidentally. It's the inclusion of Strokosch and the possible inclusion of 12 year old Huge Blake that I have the issue with. Surely if Hardie AND Blake are chosen, Peter Wright will disappear in a red puff of his own indignation, just leaving a tweed bunnett and scorch marks.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:40 pm

Maybe VC is doing some crazy selection calls to detract that a player who is yet to play for Scotland has been picked? Whistle

by whocares Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:42 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
Ineffable wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
whocares wrote:I assume Strokosh can be play 8 as well as flanker hence his selection.

Well, no he can't really. Certainly not to international standard.

Or even to Top 14 standard.

He'd make a good bouncer though...

am sure I saw him once with a 8 on a back, but maybe that was in a pro D2 game...

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:50 pm

whocares wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
Ineffable wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
whocares wrote:I assume Strokosh can be play 8 as well as flanker hence his selection.

Well, no he can't really. Certainly not to international standard.

Or even to Top 14 standard.

He'd make a good bouncer though...

am sure I saw him once with a 8 on a back, but maybe that was in a pro D2 game...

Word is if you write the number of the position you want him to play on his head in marker he can play anywhere. He's even more versatile than Richie V.

by bsando Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:50 pm

GC - I was having the lock discussion with my dad at the weekend and we both agreed Gray, Gray, Gilchrist and Hamilton would probably be the best selections.

On Hardie and Blake, to be honest, I think both did well and i wouldn't be upset if both got selected. However, Barclay add experience and he played well vs Italy so I can't not see him getting selected.

Team I would take..

Dickinson, Reid, Welsh, Grant, Nel, Ford, MacInally
Gray, Gray, Hamilton, Gilchrist
Denton, Hardie, Strauss, Barclay, Cowan, Blake
Laidlaw, Prygos
Russell, Tonks (10/15)
Scott, Horne (10/12), Bennett, Dunbar, Vernon
Visser, Seymour, Lamont, Maitland (14/15), Hogg

by **George Carlin** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:54 pm

There's actually a live video feed to the announcement:

by EWT Spoons Tue 01 Sep 2015, 1:59 pm

Are we just to going discuss the announcement on this thread (slightly taking away from the France game), or do we want a dedicated thread to talk this through?

Now given the only French poster on this board (that I am aware of) is whocares, I suspect we could probably get away with discussing it here (sorry whocares)

by **George Carlin** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 2:01 pm

Our match threads never reach 1,000 posts anyway unless we have managed to horribly anger a Welshman, so I am happy to continue the chat here unless WhoCares formally complains ( Whistle

).

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 2:01 pm

I think a new thread should be set up, as long as people pay attention to it and don't start discussing it here...

In fact I think I'll lock this thread once the new one is set up, opening it up again later on.

Volunteer please!

by **RDW** Tue 01 Sep 2015, 2:01 pm

Good to see me and GC agree on things! Laugh

by EWT Spoons Tue 01 Sep 2015, 2:03 pm

So does one of you outrank the other? Should we stick to here or move elsewhere?

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