France v Scotland, 5 September

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FRANCE v SCOTLAND
5 September 2015
21:00 CEST (UTC+02)
Stade de France, Saint-Denis

Live on BT Sport 1

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Touch judges: JP Doyle (England) Luke Pearce (England)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

88 Played 88
51 Won 34
3 Drawn 3
34 Lost 51
1,243 Points 1,057

B. Recent Form

7 February 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
15 – 8 France

8 March 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 19 France

16 March 2013
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
23 – 16 France

26 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 23 France

5 February 2011
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
34 – 21 France

7 February 2010
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 18 France

14 February 2009
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
22 – 13 France

3 February 2008
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 27 France

17 March 2007
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
46 – 19 France

5 February 2006
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
20 – 16 Scotland

C. Teams

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding
14 Yoann Huget
13 Fat Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Noa Nakaitaci
10 Freddie Michalak
09 Sebastien Tillous Borde

08 Louis Picamoles
07 Damien Chouly
06 Thierry Dusautoir (C)
05 Alexando Flanquart
04 Pascal Pape
03 Rabeh Slimani
02 Guilhem Guirado
01 Eddy Ben Arous

16 D. Dzarzewski
17 V Debaty
18 N Mas
19 B Le Roux
20 Y Nyanga
21 M Parra
22 R Tales
23 A Damoulin

SCOTLAND

15 Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 28 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 20 caps; 9 tries, 45 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps; 1 try, 2 cons, 9 points
09 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 40 caps; 3 tries, 43 cons, 85 pens, 356 points

01 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 46 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 88 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
03 Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
04 Richie Gray (Castres) – 45 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps; 1 try, 5 points
06 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
07 John Hardie (unattached) – 1 cap
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 27 caps

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
18 Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 6 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
20 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 45 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 7 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps, 1 try, 6 cons, 9 pens, 1 drop, 47 points
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 96 caps, 14 tries, 70 points

am good with you guys flooding this thread with anger and disbelief!

If the Daily Fail have got it right then for me the backs look pretty spot on. It's the forwards selections that look ridiculous. My main issues would be with Swinson, Strokosh and Wilson going instead of Harley, Cowan & Barclay.
The Daily Fail aren't renowned for their accurate stories but I do have a nagging feeling they might have got this one correct!

so, we just staying here then?

whocares wrote:am good with you guys flooding this thread with anger and disbelief!

so you're saying you don't care?

tigertattie wrote:

whocares wrote:am good with you guys flooding this thread with anger and disbelief!

so you're saying you don't care?

no , nothing else going on !

I sort of sympathise anyway - when PSA announced his RWC squad with yet another omission of Trinh-Duc, I almost ran over a dog (was listening on the radio while driving)

Not long now...

just created a new thread for the squad announcement if people want to use that.

I'm going to lock this thread for now and move us onto here:
https://www.606v2.com/t60312-scotland-world-cup-squad-announcement-bickering-thread

daily mail was right

I’ve unlocked this thread for all discussion relating to this game.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I’ve unlocked this thread for all discussion relating to this game.

Jolly big of you!

Knowing what we now know, here's my XV for France:

1.Grant 2.Brown 3.Welsh 4.Swinson 5.R Gray 6.Strokosch 7.Hardie 8.Wilson 9.Hidalgo-Clyne 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Vernon 14.Seymour 15.Maitland

100% about giving game time to those most in need/overlooked in the earlier warm-up games.

alive555 wrote:daily mail was right

Now there's a statement that you don't see often.

Team to play France, Saturday 5th September, 19:30 BST:

1. Allan Dell
2. Stuart McInally
3. Mike Cusack
4. Jim Hamilton
5. Rob Harley
6. John Barclay
7. Hugh Blake
8. Adam Ashe
9. Chris Cusiter
10. Ruaridh Jackson
11. Rory Hughes
12. Duncan Taylor
13. Sean Lamont (must get him to 100 caps)
14. Damien Hoyland
15. Greig Tonks

16. Uncle Dougie
17. Uncle Dougie
18. Uncle Dougie
19. Uncle Dougie
20. Uncle Dougie
21. Uncle Dougie
22. Uncle Dougie
23. Alex Dunbar (why not?)

They'll probably win, too.

George Carlin wrote:

alive555 wrote:daily mail was right

Now there's a statement that you don't see often.

Don't knock the Daily Mail. They had an exclusive photoshoot last week of Pippa Middleton on holiday wearing rather modest swimwear. Lovely.

When is the team named? I would prefer we kept a few of the non selected in the squad to play this.

cakeordeath wrote:When is the team named? I would prefer we kept a few of the non selected in the squad to play this.

I don't think we can afford to do that. There are too many players who are undercooked and only just coming back from injury, and far too many untested combinations.

Ooft - the French team has been announced. They're going for it!

Geez, its a pretty strong French team. Surely we can't afford a tonking two weeks out from the RWC? We've also got a fair few undercooked players.

My predicted 23 is:

Reid / Grant
McInally
Nel
Swinson
J Gray
Strokosch
Hardie
Wilson
Laidlaw
Russell
Seymour
Scott
Bennett
Maitland / Visser
Hogg / Maitland

Grant / Reid
Brown
Nel
R Gray
Denton
SHC
Horne
Vernon

Could someone post the French team, as my work internet blocks any pictures, also means I miss out on GC's pictures on each thread. I feel cheated!

If our backrow includes Strokosh and Wilson against Chouly, Picamoles and Dousitoir then we are going to be for a long, painful evening.

We haven't got any choice. With someone buggering up their dates on Strauss, we've only 4 players to choose from! I think that's why they've gone with the adaptability of Wilson and his ability to play across the back row.

15-Scott Spedding, 14-Yoann Huget, 13-Mathieu Bastareaud, 12-Wesley Fofana, 11-Noa Nakaitaci, 10-Frederic Michalak, 9-Sebastien Tillous Borde, 8-Louis Picamoles, 7-Damien Chouly, 6-Thierry Dusautoir, 5-Alexandre Flanquart, 4-Pascal Pape, 3-Rabah Slimani, 2-Guilhem Guirado, 1-Eddy Ben Arous

Replacements: 16-Dimitri Szarzewski, 17-Vincent Debaty, 18-Nicolas Mas, 19-Bernard Le Roux, 20-Yannick Nyanga, 21-Morgan Parra, 22-Remi Tales, 23-Alexandre Dumoulin

What happened with Strauss?

So that's a first choice France 23, perhaps with Maestri excluded!

I just feel so relieved that we have Swinson and Strokosch to call upon to counter Pape and Dusautoir, and Weir can take on Michalak.

I'd go with:

Dickinson, Ford, Nel, Gray, Gray, Strockosch, Hardie, Denton, Laidlaw, Russell, Seymour, Scott, Bennett, Visser, Maitland

Strong team for France - two excellent back rowers on the bench in Le Roux and Nyanga. No second row cover so maybe they will experiment by moving Chuly up to 4 when Pape tires and bring on Nyanga and  replace  Dusautoir after 50 with Le Roux.
This would mean a French pack back 5 with 4 back rowers (3 of them massive ball carriers and one hugely quick player) against our back row including an player with 1 cap and a bald man who is past his sell by date. Oh dear.

BamBam wrote:What happened with Strauss?

He's not SQ until 4 days after the world cup kicks off.

Yes, it is that ridiculous.

Nematode wrote:I'd go with:

Dickinson, Ford, Nel, Gray, Gray, Strockosch, Hardie, Denton, Laidlaw, Russell, Seymour, Scott, Bennett, Visser, Maitland

I think we need to give Swinson a proper game here, and I'd like to see Wilson used at 8. Denton has played twice and has been outstanding - I'd rather hold him back for the Japan game.

I would also give Weir a game as well - I think he's cr1p but he's now in the squad as back-up to Russell, and needs some time on the pitch. Russell is in the same boat as Denton for me - wrap him up in cotton wool for Japan.

Fine with the rest of your suggestions, although query whether we want Bennett up against Bastareaud - not that he isn't capable of dealing with him, but Vernon has a bit more heft plus I'd be less concerned should Vernon pick up a knock taking him down. Losing Bennett at this stage would be a massive blow.

It is certainly going to be a test on a par with Samoa and South Africa, so on paper at least we should be targetting it as a game to get match experience in that kind of environment.

Ideally we should protect certain players, but the likes of Jonny Gray, Russell and Bennett also really need gametime.

I would rest Denton though, even if that means are back row is under powered.

Have we seen Maitland on the wing with Russell at 10 yet? I bet he can't wait to get some ball in space for once. Oh crikey, I'm getting all positive again...

nickj wrote:Have we seen Maitland on the wing with Russell at 10 yet? I bet he can't wait to get some ball in space for once. Oh crikey, I'm getting all positive again...

Steady there!

France were outstanding in periods against an England, and have real power in their pack. Going to RDW's point, I agree that this game represents a real opportunity for a number of players to get proper Test match intensity exposure, and for that reason I'd pick a first choice front 5 (with the exception of Swinson in for J Gray (who I'd give the last 20 minutes)).

This is also a good opportunity for Hardie to impress - if he has a poor game then Cotter is going to look pretty daft, so he needs a full 80 minutes.

Still, this game for me is more about who needs rugby than warming up the 1st XV. We looked good and sharp against Italy, and there's a game against Japan which I'd use for the 1st XV to get more time to gel. By the time the reach the crunch game against Samoa, playing South Africa the week before, the 1st XV ought to be ready to take them on.

Am I the only one* who is sh1tting themselves with worry about picking up injuries

*I know I am not.

funnyExiledScot wrote:15-Scott Spedding, 14-Yoann Huget, 13-Mathieu Bastareaud, 12-Wesley Fofana, 11-Noa Nakaitaci, 10-Frederic Michalak, 9-Sebastien Tillous Borde, 8-Louis Picamoles, 7-Damien Chouly, 6-Thierry Dusautoir, 5-Alexandre Flanquart, 4-Pascal Pape, 3-Rabah Slimani, 2-Guilhem Guirado, 1-Eddy Ben Arous

Replacements: 16-Dimitri Szarzewski, 17-Vincent Debaty, 18-Nicolas Mas, 19-Bernard Le Roux, 20-Yannick Nyanga, 21-Morgan Parra, 22-Remi Tales, 23-Alexandre Dumoulin

Cheers FES

That's some team France are putting out. To get anything from this game, we would need to play our strongest xv, but I think we need to give gametime to players needing it, and wrap some up in cotton wool.

I think we should probably rest our first choice front row and lock pairing, but i'll be honest I have no idea if Cotter thinks the 2nd row will be a family affair or Jnr and Gilco. Swinson needs to play regardless of who partners him.

Give Strokosh a game in the hope he picks up a minor niggle that rules him out of the WC (harsh I know, but he's massively lucky to be there in the first place), Wilson and Hardie both could do with gametime.

SHC and Weir are likely to be the 9 & 10 combo

centres I'd not risk Bennett or Scott, but both could do with game time. I'd probably have Horne and Vernon

Back 3, here is the dilema, Seymour is our best winger, but hasn't played. Do we play him to give him some minutes on the pitch, or do we keep him back for Japan. I think he probably needs at least a half against France. Maitland if fit, as apparently he is, needs to play, given we have no other FB's other than Hogg, I suspect he'll be at 15. Then probably Lamont taking the last wing place.

My preferred 15 for this game:

1. Grant
2. Rambo
3. Welsh (is he fit again?)
4. Gilchrist
5. Swinson
6. Stroker
7. Hardie
8. Wilson
9. SHC
10. Meatball
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Vernon
14. Lamont
15. Maits

Far from our strongest team, but I think beating France in Paris is going to be very tough anyway, why chuck potential injuries to the spine of our team into the mix as well.

Surely Lamont can't play every minute of every warm up, can he?

Why not, he's got the 100 cap carrot dangling in front of him, I reckon he'll be keen to play in every game to make sure gets there

EWT Spoons wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:15-Scott Spedding, 14-Yoann Huget, 13-Mathieu Bastareaud, 12-Wesley Fofana, 11-Noa Nakaitaci, 10-Frederic Michalak, 9-Sebastien Tillous Borde, 8-Louis Picamoles, 7-Damien Chouly, 6-Thierry Dusautoir, 5-Alexandre Flanquart, 4-Pascal Pape, 3-Rabah Slimani, 2-Guilhem Guirado, 1-Eddy Ben Arous

Replacements: 16-Dimitri Szarzewski, 17-Vincent Debaty, 18-Nicolas Mas, 19-Bernard Le Roux, 20-Yannick Nyanga, 21-Morgan Parra, 22-Remi Tales, 23-Alexandre Dumoulin

Cheers FES

That's some team France are putting out.  To get anything from this game, we would need to play our strongest xv, but I think we need to give gametime to players needing it, and wrap some up in cotton wool.

I think we should probably rest our first choice front row and lock pairing, but i'll be honest I have no idea if Cotter thinks the 2nd row will be a family affair or Jnr and Gilco.  Swinson needs to play regardless of who partners him.

Give Strokosh a game in the hope he picks up a minor niggle that rules him out of the WC (harsh I know, but he's massively lucky to be there in the first place), Wilson and Hardie both could do with gametime.

SHC and Weir are likely to be the 9 & 10 combo

centres I'd not risk Bennett or Scott, but both could do with game time.  I'd probably have Horne and Vernon

Back 3, here is the dilema, Seymour is our best winger, but hasn't played.  Do we play him to give him some minutes on the pitch, or do we keep him back for Japan.  I think he probably needs at least a half against France.  Maitland if fit, as apparently he is, needs to play, given we have no other FB's other than Hogg, I suspect he'll be at 15.  Then probably Lamont taking the last wing place.

My preferred 15 for this game:

1. Grant
2. Rambo
3. Welsh (is he fit again?)
4. Gilchrist
5. Swinson
6. Stroker
7. Hardie
8. Wilson
9. SHC
10. Meatball
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Vernon
14. Lamont
15. Maits

Far from our strongest team, but I think beating France in Paris is going to be very tough anyway, why chuck potential injuries to the spine of our team into the mix as well.

I’m certainly not disagreeing with your selection, but that pack would be completely man-shamed against the French.

VC must really, really wish he didn’t have this game!

I'm sure he's love to, but its a waste of valuable warm up game time for our first 15 to gel if he's not going to be our first choice.

Yeah it would be men against boys, but I'm firmly in the group that I would rather lose this game and keep key players rested (who don't need minutes on the pitch), but then there is the arguement about the affect it would have on morale etc.

Yes, I think this is an unneccessary headache for Vern.

I say put out our 2nd XV from the squad. We put out the 1st team last week, now we need to see how the other team (that will face either USA or Japan) fare as a unit. Plus I'm terrified of injuries and, as bad as it is to say, wouldn't be heartbroken if Stoker/Swinson/Weir got injured and we could call up the better players who missed out.

It really depends on VC's mindset. He has a whole bunch of players needing game time, so I actually think this game is a blessing.

He surely could not have picked the likes of Grant, Swinson, Strokosch, Hardie, Scott, Maitland and Seymour without this warm-up game. These guys sorely need some rugby and this match presents a perfect opportunity. Yes, I think the French will hammer us if I'm being perfectly honest and I wonder whether a more forgiving fixture (say Wales......JOKE) would not have been better, but the aim of the game here is to get us ready for the World Cup. Luckily, given the shambles the squad is in, we have our two easiest fixtures first so in effect there are two additional games through which we can get the squad ready.

My thinking is this:

Front row: given Nel, Ford and Dickinson 50 minutes then replace with Welsh, McCaw Brown and Grant.

Second row: Swinson and R Gray, with Jonny Gray replacing his brother after 60 minutes.

Back row: the dream team of Strokosch, Hardie and Wilson should start the game, and I'd test McInally as back row cover coming on for Wilson in the 2nd half.

Half backs: SH-C and Weir to start. I'd give Pyrgos some time off the bench, but let Weir sweat it out for the full 80 minutes (I don't want to risk Russell, who looked sharp enough to face Japan in the Italy game).

Centres: I'd start with Scott and Vernon, but bring Horne off the bench in the second half for Scott.

Back three: I'd give Visser (11), Seymour (14) and Maitland (15) a start, with Lamont coming off the bench just to nudge him towards his landmark. He'd come on for Visser.

Looking at team selections, every other nation has gone for their strongest team for these final games - maybe we will as well.

Sorry, this might have been discussed previously but why is Hogg's right foot in a cast?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Looking at team selections, every other nation has gone for their strongest team for these final games - maybe we will as well.

I guess the difference is that every other nation has more depth of players (at least the top 8 nations do) than us. Plus they don't have to worry about Strokosh & Weir being first choice for the world cup if the preferred incumbents get injured.

But maybe we'll follow suit and hope for the best.

Nematode, you got good eyes.....!  Is it?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Looking at team selections, every other nation has gone for their strongest team for these final games - maybe we will as well.

I instinctively feel that we should. Then I see these headlines in my mind:

 
Russell, Gray, Bennett, Dickinson and Hogg out of World Cup

"We're ficked", says Cotter. "I am joining Al Quaeda now", blasts Peter Wright.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Looking at team selections, every other nation has gone for their strongest team for these final games - maybe we will as well.

I instinctively feel that we should. Then I see these headlines in my mind:

 
Russell, Gray, Bennett, Dickinson and Hogg out of World Cup

"We're ficked", says Cotter. "I am joining Al Quaeda now", blasts Peter Wright.

It's coming out in dribs and drabs on twitter, but it looks like our first 15

cakeordeath wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Looking at team selections, every other nation has gone for their strongest team for these final games - maybe we will as well.

I instinctively feel that we should. Then I see these headlines in my mind:

 
Russell, Gray, Bennett, Dickinson and Hogg out of World Cup

"We're ficked", says Cotter. "I am joining Al Quaeda now", blasts Peter Wright.

It's coming out in dribs and drabs on twitter, but it looks like our first 15

Yep, strongest team out except Hogg. Not sure about the bench though?

Team is out -

Dickinson
Ford
Nel
Gray
Gray
Wilson
Hardie
Denton

Laidlaw
Russell
Scott
Bennett
Visser
Seymour
Maitland

Subs - Brown, Reid, Welsh. Swinson, Strokosh, Hidalgo-Clyne, Weir, Lamont

We're going for it!

I really can't see us getting anything other than pain out of this game.

Players such as Dancer, Hogg, , Denton should be watching from the back of the stand.

Players such as Maitland, Family Sized Meatball, Vernon, SHC, Meatball all need game time. The only real disagreement I have with FES is Horne should start on the bench as he is probably the form 12 at the moment and he has also played 10 for Scotland and Glasgow and 15, well, for Glasgow.

The Fates have set VC up for a real fall: the most contentious area of his squad is back row and this weekend he will see his choices play against FIVE of the best in the business.
Theirry Dusatoir, probably my biggest man-crush in a long time, will test Hardie to the limit.
Picamole versus Batman? Even as a biased Glaswegian I still feel there's only one winner there.
Chouly versus Strokes? Bear in mind that after an hour Chouly can go off for his canapes and chenin blanc while Nyanga comes on to test Strokes' speed and stamina.  

Mind you, Maitland should get lots of tackling practice at 15.

STOP PRESS; HAVE POSTED THIS BEFORE SEEING THE TEAM. WILL POST AGAIN AFTER READING AND EATING MY WORDS