Yes 53% - No 44% ....Can Sturgeon take advantage and gain independence for Scotland ??

Amazing polling figures from Ipsos-Mori (Poller was closest to the result in 2014)....Show a big 9% lead for those that want independence....

All time high !!!!

The question is how does Sturgeon manipulate another vote sooner rather than later to take advantage ??

Let's be honest this SNP bubble won't last !!!!!...........

Much food for thought for the little ball-breaker and her army..............

These figures must be both uplifting and depressing at the same time !!!.

Financial suicide at the moment but if it wasn't then she probably could.

Cut 'em loose.

Shows the stupidity of the YES voters really, doesn't it. As the economic argument that was never really there to begin with, has now fully disintegrated! (thank you OPEC)

Kunckle draggers.

Independence is an ever scarier prospect now that we know Cameron will not allow refugees from failed states to enter Britain.

McLaren wrote:Independence is an ever scarier prospect now that we know Cameron will not allow refugees from failed states to enter Britain.

What are you talking about? Britain has a refugee population of over 100,000, with just over 2,000 from Syria.

Not enough, I think, but a complete fabrication to say "Cameron will not allow refugees from failed states to enter Britain."

We should put the syrians in Scotland.

seanmichaels wrote:We should put the syrians in Scotland.

And then grant Scotland independence....

TopHat24/7 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:We should put the syrians in Scotland.

And then grant Scotland independence....

Leaving a slot open for tophat to join the union.

Not sure that makes sense? Which/what union??

England Wales N. Ireland and tophat

ShahenshahG wrote:England Wales N. Ireland and tophat

Thats my favourite comment on this forum. Bar none.

I'm guessing this is another attack from the forum left-wing liberal brigade?

Still don't see how it makes sense, unless there's comments on another thread I've missed.

I'm English (or British, depending how you care to cut it) living and paying taxes into the UK and that status quo will be retained in the event of Scottish independence.

TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing this is another attack from the forum left-wing liberal brigade?

Still don't see how it makes sense, unless there's comments on another thread I've missed.

I'm English (or British, depending how you care to cut it) living and paying taxes into the UK and that status quo will be retained in the event of Scottish independence.

Its a fat joke toppy.

Ah. That's ok then.

As I lost a third of my bodyweight therefore my BMI sits a little in the overweight section but that's it. Not skinny but not a big fat fatty anymore.

McLaren wrote:Independence is an ever scarier prospect now that we know Cameron will not allow refugees from failed states to enter Britain.

I think Duty's response has masked the brilliance of this post, made me chuckle!

ShahenshahG wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing this is another attack from the forum left-wing liberal brigade?

Still don't see how it makes sense, unless there's comments on another thread I've missed.

I'm English (or British, depending how you care to cut it) living and paying taxes into the UK and that status quo will be retained in the event of Scottish independence.

Its a fat joke toppy.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Amazing polling figures from Ipsos-Mori (Poller was closest to the result in 2014)....Show a big 9% lead for those that want independence....

All time high !!!!

The question is how does Sturgeon manipulate another vote sooner rather than later to take advantage  ??

Let's be honest this SNP bubble won't last !!!!!...........

Much food for thought for the little ball-breaker and her army..............

These figures must be both uplifting and depressing at the same time !!!.

The question won't go away and if anything it is more likely to grow in support than fall away. Figures from the last referendum showed who voted for what and the older generation were more inclined to vote no out of the familiarity as in they had lived their entire lives with the union and were petrified with the thought of change. The younger generation though were far more in the yes camp and although the vote never went their way many have joined the SNP as campaigners and supporters as their feelings run so strong.

Now for the SNP bubble not to last as you put it I'd say you'd need a massive change in policy and attitude from the mainstream parties to how they operate in Scotland and have a PM who is immensely respected and talented. The Scottish Conservative and Labour Party have virtually been eradicated as political powers in Scotland as voters in Scotland see them for what they are - a subsidiary of the Westminster parties only interested in being part of Westminster issues and neglected Scottish matters or rather not strong enough to stand up and denounce what their parties push through regardless of how it affects Scotland and their voters. Scottish voters will and have turned to a party who have both eyes on Scottish issues and at the moment that is only the SNP.

The SNP can't still answer the difficult questions.

Currency? potentially the Ruble at this rate.

Taxation? How are they going to pay for all their promises, who only knows.

Socialism? Pressurising the chancelor to intorduce tax breaks for Shell, BP and Exxon?

A party that is considerate to the environment? See above in terms of cutting taxes and pumping every single drop of oil from the North Sea. Or worse destroying the beautiful Scottish scenery by erecting wind turbines at every turn.

They are a convoluted shambles.

It would also be nice if voters in Scotland stopped focusing on the constitutional issue for a while and realised how poorly the SNP have been performing in those areas where they have responsibility.

Education - comparatively less investment than in the rest of the UK, administrative mix ups with examination processes, constant changing of the curriculum, comparatively (when compared against rest of UK) less kids from poor backgrounds going to University, massive cut in the number of college places.

Health - comparatively less investment that the rest of the UK, rising A&E waiting times

Police Scotland - generally considered as being a bit of a disaster.

All they care about is independence and presenting themselves as a party of protest against the Tories.

Can only go downhill for the SNP now...............Be like Blair 97.....2001.......2005.

superflyweight wrote:It would also be nice if voters in Scotland stopped focusing on the constitutional issue for a while and realised how poorly the SNP have been performing in those areas where they have responsibility.  

All they care about is independence and presenting themselves as a party of protest against the Tories.  

You need opposition parties for that though, and considering both the main ones aren't particularly well liked it's easy to get away with stuff.

Cameron is not likely to make great play out of the failings Super has outlined though. He knows is supporters desert the SNP they are more likely to revert back to Labour than to him. For as long as the SNP have a virtual monopoly on Scottish seats a Labour victory is nigh on impossible.

All about personal experience..........You can spin figures..........and most people are bored of politics..

But If people notice a change to their lives that ie when problems start....

Big believer in you vote Governments out and not in..

Lowlandbrit wrote:

superflyweight wrote:It would also be nice if voters in Scotland stopped focusing on the constitutional issue for a while and realised how poorly the SNP have been performing in those areas where they have responsibility.  

All they care about is independence and presenting themselves as a party of protest against the Tories.  

You need opposition parties for that though, and considering both the main ones aren't particularly well liked it's easy to get away with stuff.

The SNP as a party are full of contradictions and generally a bit of a shambles. The problem is that the opposition in Scotland are woeful.

Anyone who actually scrutinizes SNP policies will quickly realize how ambitious their codswallop is. Oil prices at $113 per barrel anyone?

However for some in Scotland sadly it is independence at any cost.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:The SNP as a party are full of contradictions and generally a bit of a shambles. The problem is that the opposition in Scotland are woeful.

Anyone who actually scrutinizes SNP policies will quickly realize how ambitious their codswallop is. Oil prices at $113 per barrel anyone?

However for some in Scotland sadly it is independence at any cost.

I thought it was interesting that there's supposedly a movement to have people split their votes between the SNP and the Greens since they're both pro-independence. Even though the SNP want to build that independent nation almost entirely on oil.

Why would anybody vote Green ????? Apparently you can build 500,000 homes for 2.7 billion in Green world..

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Lowlandbrit wrote:

superflyweight wrote:It would also be nice if voters in Scotland stopped focusing on the constitutional issue for a while and realised how poorly the SNP have been performing in those areas where they have responsibility.  

All they care about is independence and presenting themselves as a party of protest against the Tories.  

You need opposition parties for that though, and considering both the main ones aren't particularly well liked it's easy to get away with stuff.

The SNP as a party are full of contradictions and generally a bit of a shambles. The problem is that the opposition in Scotland are woeful.

Anyone who actually scrutinizes SNP policies will quickly realize how ambitious their codswallop is. Oil prices at $113 per barrel anyone?

However for some in Scotland sadly it is independence at any cost.

Read that someone who knows John Swinney well once said of him that would be happy to live in a cave if it meant independence.

If that happens he can rest assured that I'll find that cave and stab him in the Hampton with a rusty knife.

Lowlandbrit wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:The SNP as a party are full of contradictions and generally a bit of a shambles. The problem is that the opposition in Scotland are woeful.

Anyone who actually scrutinizes SNP policies will quickly realize how ambitious their codswallop is. Oil prices at $113 per barrel anyone?

However for some in Scotland sadly it is independence at any cost.

I thought it was interesting that there's supposedly a movement to have people split their votes between the SNP and the Greens since they're both pro-independence. Even though the SNP want to build that independent nation almost entirely on oil.

My point exactly. The waters can be muddied further by pointing out that the Socialist Utopia the SNP have planned will be built on Tax Breaks for companies like Shell, BP and Exxon.

Not to mention a 10% cut in corperation tax for companies like google, amazon and Apple who don't pay their taxes anyway.....

it is beyond parody

All very nice but for many years under the thumb of Westminsters governments Scotland has been just as shambolically run so many Scots see that the union is not utopia that some paint it. Better to struggle financially on our own feet with Scots being in total control pf their own destiny than struggle under the thumb of Westminster rule. That is how many Scots see it.

CaledonianCraig wrote:All very nice but for many years under the thumb of Westminsters governments Scotland has been just as shambolically run so many Scots see that the union is not utopia that some paint it. Better to struggle financially on our own feet with Scots being in total control pf their own destiny than struggle under the thumb of Westminster rule. That is how many Scots see it.

Who is describing the Union as a utopia? It's clearly not a dystopia, but I don't think anyone is pretending that it's perfect - its just an arrangement out of which both Scotland the rest of the UK has benefitted to a lesser or greater extent from time to time.

What some people are doing though is questioning the SNP's story that Scotland will become a Scandinavian like socialist utopia (which doesn't exist anyway) when the numbers clearly don't add up and their policies are not in the least bit socialist (not one redistributive policy in 8 years of government).

the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland. but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for. But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

wheelchair1991 wrote:the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland.  but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for.  But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

Well for a party that has done relatively poorly for Scotland can you tell me why they won so many seats at the last election? It is Scottish Tory and Labour that have to re-invent themselves - distance themselves from Westminster policies and take more active interest in Scottish affairs.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

wheelchair1991 wrote:the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland.  but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for.  But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

Well for a party that has done relatively poorly for Scotland can you tell me why they won so many seats at the last election? It is Scottish Tory and Labour that have to re-invent themselves - distance themselves from Westminster policies and take more active interest in Scottish affairs.

Credit where it's due - they are brilliant at spin and misdirection and are ruthlessly 'on message' and the electorate has fallen for it hook, line and sinker. It also helps that Labour have been an utter shambles in Scotland for years and are absolutely terrible at opposition politics.

superflyweight wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

wheelchair1991 wrote:the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland.  but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for.  But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

Well for a party that has done relatively poorly for Scotland can you tell me why they won so many seats at the last election? It is Scottish Tory and Labour that have to re-invent themselves - distance themselves from Westminster policies and take more active interest in Scottish affairs.

Credit where it's due - they are brilliant at spin and misdirection and are ruthlessly 'on message' and the electorate has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.  It also helps that Labour have been an utter shambles in Scotland for years and are absolutely terrible at opposition politics.  

Or perhaps it is just something you cannot accept - people are more trustworthy of them than Labour and Tories? If it is what you suggest their share of the vote would not have continued to grow year-on-year as it has done for about a decade. Many would have seen through them by now but that isn't the case. From that it casts big doubt on your theory.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

wheelchair1991 wrote:the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland.  but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for.  But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

Well for a party that has done relatively poorly for Scotland can you tell me why they won so many seats at the last election? It is Scottish Tory and Labour that have to re-invent themselves - distance themselves from Westminster policies and take more active interest in Scottish affairs.

Credit where it's due - they are brilliant at spin and misdirection and are ruthlessly 'on message' and the electorate has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.  It also helps that Labour have been an utter shambles in Scotland for years and are absolutely terrible at opposition politics.  

Or perhaps it is just something you cannot accept - people are more trustworthy of them than Labour and Tories? If it is what you suggest their share of the vote would not have continued to grow year-on-year as it has done for about a decade. Many would have seen through them by now but that isn't the case. From that it casts big doubt on your theory.

George Bush was elected twice. People are dumb like that.

Just because people like or vote for something - it doesn't mean that it is good. Lots of people have seen and like Titanic and it is, by all objective standards, rubbish.

Also - its not a theory - it's fact and the facts are:

(1) their performance in government in Scotland has been poor;
(2) they claim to be a socialist party but have not implemented a single socialist, redistributive policy during 8 years of government;
(3) the economic case they presented for independence was nonsensical;
(4) they are on message that all of Scotland's ills are the fault of Westminster despite the key failing and underfunded areas in Scotland being education (devolved) and health (devolved); and
(5) they deliberately target their messaging to the unthinking, lowest common denominator.

I should add that in relation to point 3, they have done nothing in the intervening 12 months to address the legitimate concerns that were raised about their economic proposals.

superflyweight wrote:Just because people like or vote for something - it doesn't mean that it is good.  Lots of people have seen and like Titanic and it is, by all objective standards, rubbish.  

Also - its not a theory - it's fact and the facts are:

(1) their performance in government in Scotland has been poor;
(2) they claim to be a socialist party but have not implemented a single socialist, redistributive policy during 8 years of government;
(3) the economic case they presented for independence was nonsensical;
(4) they are on message that all of Scotland's ills are the fault of Westminster despite the key failing and underfunded areas in Scotland being education (devolved) and health (devolved); and
(5) they deliberately target their messaging to the unthinking, lowest common denominator.  

Leading to Superfly getting inundated with unsolicited post.

ShahenshahG wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

wheelchair1991 wrote:the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland.  but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for.  But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

Well for a party that has done relatively poorly for Scotland can you tell me why they won so many seats at the last election? It is Scottish Tory and Labour that have to re-invent themselves - distance themselves from Westminster policies and take more active interest in Scottish affairs.

Credit where it's due - they are brilliant at spin and misdirection and are ruthlessly 'on message' and the electorate has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.  It also helps that Labour have been an utter shambles in Scotland for years and are absolutely terrible at opposition politics.  

Or perhaps it is just something you cannot accept - people are more trustworthy of them than Labour and Tories? If it is what you suggest their share of the vote would not have continued to grow year-on-year as it has done for about a decade. Many would have seen through them by now but that isn't the case. From that it casts big doubt on your theory.

George Bush was elected twice. People are dumb like that.

Yes and look at how many Labour and Tory governments have been formed leading to lies, false wars and shambles. Yet people continue to vote for them.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

wheelchair1991 wrote:the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland.  but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for.  But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

Well for a party that has done relatively poorly for Scotland can you tell me why they won so many seats at the last election? It is Scottish Tory and Labour that have to re-invent themselves - distance themselves from Westminster policies and take more active interest in Scottish affairs.

Credit where it's due - they are brilliant at spin and misdirection and are ruthlessly 'on message' and the electorate has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.  It also helps that Labour have been an utter shambles in Scotland for years and are absolutely terrible at opposition politics.  

Or perhaps it is just something you cannot accept - people are more trustworthy of them than Labour and Tories? If it is what you suggest their share of the vote would not have continued to grow year-on-year as it has done for about a decade. Many would have seen through them by now but that isn't the case. From that it casts big doubt on your theory.

George Bush was elected twice. People are dumb like that.

Yes and look at how many Labour and Tory governments have been formed leading to lies, false wars and shambles. Yet people continue to vote for them.

Exactly?! Why are you supporting my point you daft sod?

superflyweight wrote:Just because people like or vote for something - it doesn't mean that it is good.  Lots of people have seen and like Titanic and it is, by all objective standards, rubbish.  

Also - its not a theory - it's fact and the facts are:

(1) their performance in government in Scotland has been poor;
(2) they claim to be a socialist party but have not implemented a single socialist, redistributive policy during 8 years of government;
(3) the economic case they presented for independence was nonsensical;
(4) they are on message that all of Scotland's ills are the fault of Westminster despite the key failing and underfunded areas in Scotland being education (devolved) and health (devolved); and
(5) they deliberately target their messaging to the unthinking, lowest common denominator.  

And just because you post something as fact does not make it so either.

If your five points are blatantly obvious then sorry but you are living in dreamland if you think, with those five failings that you claim, that virtually all of Scotland's seats were won by the SNP.

Would be better if you posted something they did do CC.

ShahenshahG wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

wheelchair1991 wrote:the problem is that the SNP have wrapped themselves Scotland's flag and say in effect we are the only ones who care about Scotland.  but in reality they have done relatively poor in Scotland for the areas they are responsible for.  But they always have an easy get out card by saying its all Westminster's fault.

Well for a party that has done relatively poorly for Scotland can you tell me why they won so many seats at the last election? It is Scottish Tory and Labour that have to re-invent themselves - distance themselves from Westminster policies and take more active interest in Scottish affairs.

Credit where it's due - they are brilliant at spin and misdirection and are ruthlessly 'on message' and the electorate has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.  It also helps that Labour have been an utter shambles in Scotland for years and are absolutely terrible at opposition politics.  

Or perhaps it is just something you cannot accept - people are more trustworthy of them than Labour and Tories? If it is what you suggest their share of the vote would not have continued to grow year-on-year as it has done for about a decade. Many would have seen through them by now but that isn't the case. From that it casts big doubt on your theory.

George Bush was elected twice. People are dumb like that.

Yes and look at how many Labour and Tory governments have been formed leading to lies, false wars and shambles. Yet people continue to vote for them.

Exactly?! Why are you supporting my point you daft sod?

I am saying that Tories and Labour have done far worse than the SNP yet people continue to vote for them. The same Tory party that rules in Westminster voted in by more dumb people then.

The SNP vote was mainly a protest vote.....................Labour being too right wing and ganging up against the Nats over independence and the Liberals being soiled by going in with the tories...

No - They vote for the least sh*t party which is different to voting for a party hoping for change but has never actually delivered any. Much as it pains me to admit, The tories were the least sh*t party this time around, I only wish they'd been forced into a coalition.

ShahenshahG wrote:Would be better if you posted something they did do CC.

Free prescriptions.

Not introducing tuition fees (unlike rest of UK) meaning college spots are affordable for more. Exodus swarmed up to Scotland from England for those.

Re-opening train routes closed by Doctor Beeching.

Frozen council taxes for 4 years.

Introduced extra policemen onto streets.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The SNP vote was mainly a protest vote.....................Labour being too right wing and ganging up against the Nats over independence and the Liberals being soiled by going in with the tories...

We shall see. As when do you suggest this protest vote began? The SNP share of vote has been increasing in size for a decade now and it shows no sign of abating. And do you know what? It won't as long as the Tories and Labour Parties continue to base their policies around what Westminster wants.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Would be better if you posted something they did do CC.

Free prescriptions.

Not introducing tuition fees (unlike rest of UK) meaning college spots are affordable for more. Exodus swarmed up to Scotland from England for those.

Re-opening train routes closed by Doctor Beeching.

Frozen council taxes for 4 years.

Introduced extra policemen onto streets.

Excellent. All fantastic things to do, all things I'd hope to happen in England. Now- What did they cost you?

ShahenshahG wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Would be better if you posted something they did do CC.

Free prescriptions.

Not introducing tuition fees (unlike rest of UK) meaning college spots are affordable for more. Exodus swarmed up to Scotland from England for those.

Re-opening train routes closed by Doctor Beeching.

Frozen council taxes for 4 years.

Introduced extra policemen onto streets.

Excellent. All fantastic things to do, all things I'd hope to happen in England. Now- What did they cost you?

No more than I was paying for when Tories were introducing Poll Tax, introducing slave labour YTS schemes closing down coal mines, privatizing everything or when Labour were taking the country into false wars founded on lies.