AP Clubs Vote to Block Salary Cap Investigation!

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Or Saints keeping Ashton.

So not punished then. And obviously not postponed to protect the wc as its still going on.

So pretty much a let's just sweep it under the carpet. Well the English clubs integrity is shining through

Huzzah. Long live the cheating ****ers.

Ahem, nothing to see here chaps, we've dealt with the issue of overspending by getting a top up to our coffers, that'll solve it

The more I think about it the more angry I get. What a spineless bunch aff turd blossom's

Welcome to premier league football sorry rugby.
If this continues all that will happen is the richest team wins
Disgraceful

"Mark McCafferty: No Premiership side breached salary cap regulations"


MurkyMcCafferty


A man that can be trusted...........

So they didn't breach the cap (technically according to their lawyers anyway).

Translation, they took the spirit of the cap, bent it over and took out years of pent frustration at not being good enough playing fair.

And if they didn't illegally breach the salary cap, then any agreement to stick to the salary cap isn't legally binding. So the bullying clubs can continue to ignore the salary cap, in fact more so now, and spend as much as they like.

Incandescent at present but was I just truly naive to think this would be addressed. I have no resentment against the fans of Sarries and Bath, but their respective boards have truly shafted the game.

Have I heard that the fella who owns Gloucester is selling up and once he has he will be free to spill the beans?

carpet baboon wrote:Have I heard that the fella who owns Gloucester is selling up and once he has he will be free to spill the beans?

I sincerely hope so. Walkinshaw has been very vocal about this shambles and unless there is some negative impact to Glaws he'll no doubt speak out. As we're on the verge of being sold he could do so shortly...

The whole thing stinks

HongKongCherry wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Have I heard that the fella who owns Gloucester is selling up and once he has he will be free to spill the beans?

I sincerely hope so. Walkinshaw has been very vocal about this shambles and unless there is some negative impact to Glaws he'll no doubt speak out. As we're on the verge of being sold he could do so shortly...

I hope he unleashes some righteous fury on those who deserve it

#cheatsdoprosper

I'm just pleased this was all delayed so it wouldn't have a negative effect on England's World Cup prospects.

Official statement on new cap details is here.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/36947.php#zsItwRMcomS1gKdh.97

I love the new 'tax' on overspend up to 5%. It just means the money bags can just over spend by another 5% and just pay out the 'tax' (which is probably used to pay for the 'entertainment' at the PRL Christmas party). What this means is that they'll be able to spend well over €10M by 2017. And little clubs, kiss goodbye to any decent England players. They can now spend more on them.

Well done Beshocked. You're getting what you want. Hope you happy when the league is totally Frak.

The language from McCafferty is actually wonderful to behold.  It's true art.  It really is.

"The issues were not straightforward and were subject to differing legal opinion and consequent risk as to any judgment on the correct interpretation."

When cloudy rules are debated in muddy waters, there is always a possibility that the correct conclusion will be reached without the need for clarity.  Thank you.

"There are no breaches, but we have a five-year window in the regulation which remains open, in case any new information surfaces on any club.  That remains fully in place and available to the salary cap manager."

We hope you all forget everything over the next five years, most especially the salary cap manager who has been placed on a leave of absence for life under commercial settlement protocols.


"When you get to a point in any commercial relationship where there is a difference of views between two parties, an option is always to settle without one party being right or another party being wrong. We are confident we have resolved any differences, and we move on."

In a moment I will click my fingers and you'll wake up feeling refreshed, with no knowledge of right or wrong.  If you don't feel refreshed and still think you're right, please contact us immediately as we might be coaxed into a 'commercial settlement' with you to persuade you otherwise.


"I appreciate some of the speculation over the last few months has gone on unbridled, as it were. I don't think people should assume the scale that maybe has been alluded to consistently over the last few months."

In the absence of a breach the word 'scale' becomes obsolete.  Please refrain from reading the word 'scale'  It is an aberration and possibly a typo.  More information can be had on the word 'scale' in section 2 of the commercial settlement agreement.

Bit of a urine take, this

HammerofThunor wrote:Official statement on new cap details is here.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/36947.php#zsItwRMcomS1gKdh.97

I love the new 'tax' on overspend up to 5%. It just means the money bags can just over spend by another 5% and just pay out the 'tax' (which is probably used to pay for the 'entertainment' at the PRL Christmas party).  What this means is that they'll be able to spend well over €10M by 2017. And little clubs, kiss goodbye to any decent England players. They can now spend more on them.

Well done Beshocked. You're getting what you want. Hope you happy when the league is totally Frak.

And that doesn't include the costs of two marquee signings. The significant raise in the ineffective salary cap, the extra 5% spend and the two marquee signings excluded from cap, equals a lot of spending power. Something that McCafferty seems to be gloating about.

This article adds a little insight: Telegraph

I feel sorry for the Saracen players. Any victory is null and void in my eyes, every win they have cheated to gain it. They didn't win the premiership last year they stole it.
I hope Mr McCaffrey suffers the fate he deserves in life, someone with deeper pockets and more soulless lawyers turns up and ruins him.
Long live the big clubs. Hope they enjoy there lonely perch

Well the RFU may well get what they want. I can easily see a handful of teams buying up a load of 'English' talent off teams that can't afford them anymore. That way we can concentrate our players in a couple of teams, that will always be at the top of the league and always in Europe. Of course the league will be a largely pointless exercise of 'who's going to get relgated' (unless that gets taken away too).

Well I used to be die hard football fan so at least it's not the first time I've lost interest in a sport. With the over-emphasis on international rugby, the systemic cheating and now this, I can see myself going that way again. At least I cancelled my BT and Sky Sports packages in the summer.

McCafferty is just the chairman. The mouth of the group. I'm guessing he has a vote but that will be it. Sure he'll spin everything as good but can hardly be held to blame.

HammerofThunor wrote:Official statement on new cap details is here.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/36947.php#zsItwRMcomS1gKdh.97

I love the new 'tax' on overspend up to 5%. It just means the money bags can just over spend by another 5% and just pay out the 'tax' (which is probably used to pay for the 'entertainment' at the PRL Christmas party).  What this means is that they'll be able to spend well over €10M by 2017. And little clubs, kiss goodbye to any decent England players. They can now spend more on them.

Well done Beshocked. You're getting what you want. Hope you happy when the league is totally Frak.

Don't you understand Thunor?! This is for the good of he game! Now the big clubs can finally stop getting bullied by those little clubs who want silly things like a fair league, equal rules on spend and some kind of sensible budget management.

Watch in awe as English clubs go undefeated in Europe and hand it to the French for the next decade at least. All thanks to Saracens.

What a load of Poopie

HammerofThunor wrote:Well the RFU may well get what they want. I can easily see a handful of teams buying up a load of 'English' talent off teams that can't afford them anymore. That way we can concentrate our players in a couple of teams, that will always be at the top of the league and always in Europe. 

A bit like the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Italians, Kiwis, Australians and South Africans....?

carpet baboon wrote:I feel sorry for the Saracen players. Any victory is null and void in my eyes, every win they have cheated to gain it. They didn't win the premiership last year they stole it.
I hope Mr McCaffrey suffers the fate he deserves in life, someone with deeper pockets and more soulless lawyers turns up and ruins him.
Long live the big clubs. Hope they enjoy there lonely perch

In the interest of balance I feel the same way about bath, Mr Craig and Mr Wray.
A total betrayal of the game

Well played Bath and Saracens, aka Nigel and Bruce. You have destroyed the values of the game that we love.  Big round of applause, bravo 


Utter Kumquat!

I've said before that I have no club affiliation, no axe to grind with any particular club

But this disgusts me, I can't believe that 2 scumbag owners have managed to ride roughshod over the rest of the league

Frak disgraceful

And just been reading that they are threatening legal action on anyone who reports anything other than the official line. So the press won't be covering any of it.
Feckers the lot of them

carpet baboon wrote:And just been reading that they are threatening legal action on anyone who reports anything other than the official line. So the press won't be covering any of it.
Feckers the lot of them

Be sued by them and force them to explain in court what they did. Sounds worth it to me.

Hammerofthunor you say I am getting what I want. Well no it's not. I never claimed that I wanted the salary cap investigation to be permanently brushed under the carpet. I do believe that Saracens and Bath are innocent till proven guilty though. Lots of rumours but not much evidence and facts from the anti Sarries and Bath brigade.

I believe in a salary cap that is fair throughout the AP,Top 14 and Pro12 but I do not want the French and Irish continuing to boss the English clubs with a much higher cap and no cap respectively. There needs to be an agreement throughout Europe that the cap will not get out of control.

Yappysnap it's easy for you to talk about budget management when you have your own stadium. Your commercial success is down to a CEO who you got from Saracens.

Demonising Nigel Wray and Bruce Craig is highly naive. Both are very passionate rugby fans who have their own strong opinions on where they want the game to go.  You might not disagree and fair enough but I can understand Wray and Craig's point of view.

Saracens in particular very much indebted to Wray who has taken from a club of quite low prospects but long history who had no home, given them a home, helped develop a strong academy which is bearing fruit for England and turning them into a stronger club.

I am of course bias because I am a big fan of Wray - he's not condescending or arrogant. For a multi millionaire in my opinion he is down to earth. This is what I have thought when meeting him. He's not perfect but no one is.

As for Craig I know less about him but I feel he's helped turn round Bath's fortunes in the league and he seems to be a very passionate rugby fan.

LondonTiger wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And just been reading that they are threatening legal action on anyone who reports anything other than the official line. So the press won't be covering any of it.
Feckers the lot of them

Be sued by them and force them to explain in court what they did. Sounds worth it to me.

Yep - if what they print is true the a*holes can sue them all they like and hopefully lose a truck load of money in the process ...

Anyone unable to read between the lines of the PRL statement and discern the truth should perhaps check the illustrated dictionary for the definition of gullible. The picture may be familiar.

Beshocked. Not much proof. OK. Keep telling yourself there's been no harm and all is hunky dory.
You reap what you sow in this life.
Enjoy your years of success that has been baught not earned.
Hope it sits well with you

carpet baboon to be honest you can make excuses for anything if you look hard enough.

At least it gives you an excuse - we didn't lose because of poor coaching or poor selection, we lost because they've spent more money than us and hence are cheating!

They only won the league because they had more money, nothing to do with better gameplan, stronger academy etc.

Ultimately it's about who was going to get their way and in this case at the moment it seems that the likes of Bath and Saracens have the upperhand.

The RFU have more money than any other rugby union in the world but it did the England team no favours in the RWC!

If it's as simple as success being bought then England would have won the RWC and numerous GS since 2003.

You can throw a money at something but it needs to be for the right thing and right reasons.

Far too many naive posters who think money is the only factor.

Player doesn't only move to another club because of money.

Part of me now can not wait for the ECC so I can happily watch Sarries and Bath get destroyed by teams from other leagues. I'll be cheering on any one who plays them.

That's nice of you Yappysnap. Nice to see you're not bitter or anything. You think you would be grateful that ex Sarries man, Mark Evans effectively built Quins into a strong commercial position. Also thought you would appreciate all the work ex Sarries man Tony Diprose has done for your academy.

Found this on another site:

Good news though, Premiership Rugby have released details of the new Salary Cap Committee

Beshocked, do you honestly believe some of the shoite you write? The bullies have won and the game is fecked. I know that my club is stretched to the limit reaching the current cap, and I imagine others are as well, so stand by for a number of us falling by the wayside. Enjoy your trophies bought at the expense of the game.

beshocked wrote:That's nice of you Yappysnap. Nice to see you're not bitter or anything. You think you would be grateful that ex Sarries man, Mark Evans effectively built Quins into a strong commercial position. Also thought you would appreciate all the work ex Sarries man Tony Diprose has done for your academy.

I'm very happy with both of their contributions thanks.

I can also be very unhappy with Saracens cheating, and then bullying their way out of any punishment. As we the fans can't expect justice off the field, we'll all just have to wait to see it meted out on the pitch.

So are you expecting to win the ECC this season now that you've cheated your way to a squad that can beat the French?

Ozzy3213 of course I believe it. Better than the shoite about money being the only factor.

As for bullies - I guess it depends on who you believe the bullies are.

I just see it as one side getting their own way. Of course you're upset because your side didn't get their own way. If Sarries got a 35 point deduction this season and a hefty fine I would have said so be it. That's what they would have got for breaking the rules and I can understand why you feel that is unfair that Sarries and Bath have supposedly got off scot free.

To be honest I would agree with you that Saracens and Bath should be punished but I am not going to say the game is fecked just yet.

You have two opposing view points and someone has to give ground.

Ultimately you care about your own club - LI and I don't blame you. You can blame the cap for LI's failings or you could look closer to home. Look at what LI can do better on and off the field. Instead of using the salary cap as an excuse for failure look at the coaching, the players etc.

Saracens and Bath spend more money but they are not unbeatable. You know that, I know that.

You can say but.... Bath stole all LI's best players - like Garvey,Watson and Joseph - before they left LI were doing poorly anyway.

Honestly, you are one of the most condescending individuals I have ever come across.  This isn't about London irish, and me caring about them.  this is about the damage your club and Bath have done to the game.  Sporting contests should be settled fairly on the field, not by exploiting loopholes off of it.   

With regards who the bullies are, only two people threatened legal action if they didn't get their own way, so I think that's fairly obvious.

yappysnap wrote:

beshocked wrote:That's nice of you Yappysnap. Nice to see you're not bitter or anything. You think you would be grateful that ex Sarries man, Mark Evans effectively built Quins into a strong commercial position. Also thought you would appreciate all the work ex Sarries man Tony Diprose has done for your academy.

I'm very happy with both of their contributions thanks.

I can also be very unhappy with Saracens cheating, and then bullying their way out of any punishment. As we the fans can't expect justice off the field, we'll all just have to wait to see it meted out on the pitch.

So are you expecting to win the ECC this season now that you've cheated your way to a squad that can beat the French?

You say Saracens are cheating and bullying their way out of punishment but all you have are hearsay and rumours. Perhaps it was Saints and Bath driving the argument with Wray taking a more relaxed approach. There is far too much speculation to come to any meaningful conclusions. Perhaps Leicester strong armed Saracens into dropping their interest in Manu to gain their support. Ultimately we just don't know. It's easy to squarely blame Saracens but surely Saracens could not on their own somehow "bully" every other club. I think you over estimate the influence Saracens wield. They are one AP club of twelve.

Yes because of course Saracens have made lots of big signings which means their prospects of winning the ERCC are much higher.....

Ozzy3213 wrote:Honestly, you are one of the most condescending individuals I have ever come across.  This isn't about London irish, and me caring about them.  this is about the damage your club and Bath have done to the game.  Sporting contests should be settled fairly on the field, not by exploiting loopholes off of it.   

With regards who the bullies are, only two people threatened legal action if they didn't get their own way, so I think that's fairly obvious.

Condescending because I dare to disagree with you?

I have an opposing viewpoint. Trying to add some balance to an overwhelming torrent of hatred to Bath and Saracens which is based on hearsay and rumour. Yes you and others make some valid points but I an entitled to disagree with some of it if not all of it.

Ultimately it's still XV vs XV on the pitch with 8 on the bench.

Let's get some perspective here - none of Sarries players are one of the top earners in club rugby. Most of the efforts has been on player retention if you look at it. Yes some players have been signed from other clubs but Saracens have not been visiting the other teams' academies and poaching players - well no more than others. You might say - what about the Vunipola bros. I would counter - from Bristol to Saracens is a step up, not just about money, as for Billy, he was put under pressure by his family because they wanted the bros together. Again not just about money.

When a player like Nick Auterac goes from Saracens to Bath, you don't hear me screaming - "it's all about the money!" because I am sure it's not.

I genuinely cannot be bother to listen to you any more beshocked, as you constantly twist what has been said.  Show me where I've ever said "it's all about the money" when we have lost players, which is what you insinuate.  In fact, don't bother, as I won't be listening, I cannot discuss this any more.

Beshocked it has feck all to do with money for me.
It's very simple.
They chose to cheat
They looked at an agreement they signed up to and thought feck it,let's do what we want.
They were caught and then bullied every one else to back down with threats of high court and years of legal disputes.
There academy may be great
There tactics the best
The coaching world class.
But quite simply they peed on everyone else and did not give too fecks about it.
That's what's got right on my jubblies.
And as I said, enjoy your success, it may have been earnt,but those in charge have tarnished it beyond my ability to forgive and forget.
They took the principal off fair play and leveraging field and took a big steami g turd on it.

And they had the nerve to preach to other leagues about the how things should be done.
They are an embarrassment

Think this site and all fans should start tweeting premiership rugby our distaste for this

carpet baboon wrote:Beshocked it has feck all to do with money for me.
It's very simple.
They chose to cheat
They looked at an agreement they signed up to and thought feck it,let's do what we want.
They were caught and then bullied every one else to back down with threats of high court and years of legal disputes.
There academy may be great
There tactics the best
The coaching world class.
But quite simply they peed on everyone else and did not give too fecks about it.
That's what's got right on my jubblies.
And as I said, enjoy your success, it may have been earnt,but those in charge have tarnished it beyond my ability to forgive and forget.
They took the principal off fair play and leveraging field and took a big steaming turd on it.

And they had the nerve to preach to other leagues about the how things should be done.
They are an embarrassment

 

Ozzy3213 I don't trawl through posts looking for ways to point score against you. I just get the general feeling from you that you believe the only reason, these players left LI was money. Perhaps I have got it wrong.

I can understand you are upset and to be honest I don't blame you. It's not nice when you feel that justice has not been done. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant.

I am not as callous as you think. I am sorry if you feel offended by my stance.

As for the so called damage to the league and game of rugby - I'll wait and see what transpires first.

nathan wrote:Think this site and all fans should start tweeting premiership rugby our distaste for this

Already have.

I'm not offended by your stance beshocked, I just cannot believe that anyone who believes in the good of the game would take the line you have.