England v Wales - Part 2, 26 September

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Apparently Williams' head injury isn't bad. I've took blows like that and played on. Probably not a good idea back then, but if I was alright then Williams' should be. Just to be safe I would leave him out of the Fiji game, or put him on the bench in case we get another injured winger/centre convert.

It'll hopefully be based on the concussion protocol.

eirebilly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

wales606 wrote:If it's reckless or deliberate, I can't see Wood being involved in the rest of this world cup if the citing commissioner is paying attention.

https://vine.co/v/exweQzegeOW

Does not make for good viewing does it. Would be surprised if he is not cited.

He's clearly going for a bouncing ball and accidentally catches the Welsh boy with the shin. If that constitutes reckless play a red and a citing Lydiate will be banned until Christmas with his torpedo shoulder tackle. As it is a contact sport they'll be both playing next week.

Williams was on the ground trying to dive on the ball, you do not attempt to kick in those situations in my opinion as the chance of missing the ball and getting the player is high. I did not say red card but I do think that its worthy of a citing and a look.

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Apparently Williams' head injury isn't bad. I've took blows like that and played on. Probably not a good idea back then, but if I was alright then Williams' should be. Just to be safe I would leave him out of the Fiji game, or put him on the bench in case we get another injured winger/centre convert.

It'll hopefully be based on the concussion protocol.

Two weeks isn't it? We aren't sure he suffered concussion yet, are we?

Totalflanker wrote:Would be surprised if Wood or Lydiate have any further action taken against them. Wood one looks bad but was going for the ball and shin hits head. Nought wrong with Lydiate tackle - leads with and makes contact first with the arm.
.

eirebilly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

wales606 wrote:If it's reckless or deliberate, I can't see Wood being involved in the rest of this world cup if the citing commissioner is paying attention.

https://vine.co/v/exweQzegeOW

Does not make for good viewing does it. Would be surprised if he is not cited.

He's clearly going for a bouncing ball and accidentally catches the Welsh boy with the shin. If that constitutes reckless play a red and a citing Lydiate will be banned until Christmas with his torpedo shoulder tackle. As it is a contact sport they'll be both playing next week.

Williams was on the ground trying to dive on the ball, you do not attempt to kick in those situations in my opinion as the chance of missing the ball and getting the player is high. I did not say red card but I do think that its worthy of a citing and a look.

Rugby Fan wrote:Any word on England injuries?

Vunipola didn't look good. If Morgan isn't ready for Australia, then Lancaster has to consider whether to rely on resources within the squad or send one home to call up Easter.

If any action is taken against Wood, then we might end up with a backrow of Robshaw, Haskell and Kruis/Launchbury/Lawes. Not my preferred combination to face Pocock and Hooper.

majesticimperialman wrote:What is wood being cited for?

Heaf wrote:

George Carlin wrote:And a typically Wumtastic offering from Rattue in the NZ Herald (so please don't shoot the messenger):

Chris Rattue: England's arrogance their undoing
5:35 PM Sunday Sep 27, 2015
Arrogance. That has to be what sent England to a humiliating Rugby World Cup loss against a magnificent Welsh side who should have limped off Twickenham in defeat.

England's decision to turn down a late shot at goal for a draw was among the most staggering things I have seen in top sport. It defied belief. Desperate to claim the world crown on home soil, England tossed common sense out the window and gambled their prospects on a captain's whim. A team that is supposedly prepared to within an inch of its life, interactive goalkicking aids and all, had a melt down. They simply couldn't face the prospect of a draw with Wales.

The Pool of Death -- where every point may count -- has come alive, and Australia are the winners on this result. They have a brilliant record against Wales, who are so knocked about by injuries that their odds of winning the World Cup might even go down after this victory. England are behind the eight ball in what many describe as the toughest World Cup pool in history.

Fortress Twickenham has had its doors kicked down. England are a laughing stock thanks to captain Chris Robshaw's astounding late call.

What an amazing game at Twickenham, even though it wasn't very good at times. Outstanding goal kickers are wonderful to watch, but only in doses more moderate than this. Yet just as the big Pool A game was heading towards the casualty ward, the Welsh stretcher bearers came on and the game took off.

There's nothing like a wounded underdog clawing their way back into a contest to get the heart racing, and European crowds know how to create an atmosphere. And Wales really were out for the count, down on the scoreboard and in fit troops.

When it comes to injuries, they are already the world champs. They really do seem jinxed. Their squad went into the game depleted, and got hammered further still. Even their coach Warren Gatland managed to break both ankles, falling from a ladder in New Zealand a couple of years ago.

But they showed the sort of spirit that has always been essential to rugby success. A game of such loose structures has been bashed over the head by the laptop army, but rolling up the sleeves, digging deep as they say, still counts for a lot.

The glory moment was provided by Lloyd Williams, normally a halfback who was forced on to the wing, scampering up the left hand touchline and placing a centreing kick for the winning try. It's not the sort of move that is rigorously planned on a training field. Those impromptu things come from desperation, and the heart.

And what was England's response? They couldn't face drawing with an old enemy who was threatening to rain lightly on their parade. They turned down a simple penalty for the draw even though this was the mandatory thing to do. It was also a mark of disrespect to the Welsh pack, who easily defended Robshaw's meek lineout move. England paid the full price. For arrogance.

Don't disagree that not taking the penalty was the wrong call but it was far from simple ...

DaveM wrote:

Heaf wrote:

George Carlin wrote:And a typically Wumtastic offering from Rattue in the NZ Herald (so please don't shoot the messenger):

Chris Rattue: England's arrogance their undoing
5:35 PM Sunday Sep 27, 2015
Arrogance. That has to be what sent England to a humiliating Rugby World Cup loss against a magnificent Welsh side who should have limped off Twickenham in defeat.

England's decision to turn down a late shot at goal for a draw was among the most staggering things I have seen in top sport. It defied belief. Desperate to claim the world crown on home soil, England tossed common sense out the window and gambled their prospects on a captain's whim. A team that is supposedly prepared to within an inch of its life, interactive goalkicking aids and all, had a melt down. They simply couldn't face the prospect of a draw with Wales.

The Pool of Death -- where every point may count -- has come alive, and Australia are the winners on this result. They have a brilliant record against Wales, who are so knocked about by injuries that their odds of winning the World Cup might even go down after this victory. England are behind the eight ball in what many describe as the toughest World Cup pool in history.

Fortress Twickenham has had its doors kicked down. England are a laughing stock thanks to captain Chris Robshaw's astounding late call.

What an amazing game at Twickenham, even though it wasn't very good at times. Outstanding goal kickers are wonderful to watch, but only in doses more moderate than this. Yet just as the big Pool A game was heading towards the casualty ward, the Welsh stretcher bearers came on and the game took off.

There's nothing like a wounded underdog clawing their way back into a contest to get the heart racing, and European crowds know how to create an atmosphere. And Wales really were out for the count, down on the scoreboard and in fit troops.

When it comes to injuries, they are already the world champs. They really do seem jinxed. Their squad went into the game depleted, and got hammered further still. Even their coach Warren Gatland managed to break both ankles, falling from a ladder in New Zealand a couple of years ago.

But they showed the sort of spirit that has always been essential to rugby success. A game of such loose structures has been bashed over the head by the laptop army, but rolling up the sleeves, digging deep as they say, still counts for a lot.

The glory moment was provided by Lloyd Williams, normally a halfback who was forced on to the wing, scampering up the left hand touchline and placing a centreing kick for the winning try. It's not the sort of move that is rigorously planned on a training field. Those impromptu things come from desperation, and the heart.

And what was England's response? They couldn't face drawing with an old enemy who was threatening to rain lightly on their parade. They turned down a simple penalty for the draw even though this was the mandatory thing to do. It was also a mark of disrespect to the Welsh pack, who easily defended Robshaw's meek lineout move. England paid the full price. For arrogance.

Don't disagree that not taking the penalty was the wrong call but it was far from simple ...

It wasn't arrogant, it was simply a poor call under pressure (and compounded by an embarrassingly bad lineout drill). This sort of stereotyping is pretty outrageous really. Were Japan arrogant when going to the try against SA?  

majesticimperialman wrote:Looked like an accident to me.

Surely it is not being suggested that it was deliberate?

It looked to me like he was trying to kick the ball.

How is Williams by the way? Is he all right.

Seagultaf wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Looked like an accident to me.

Surely it is not being suggested that it was deliberate?

It looked to me like he was trying to kick the ball.

How is Williams by the way? Is he all right.

He missed the ball by a significant margin, so at best very clumsy. Nevertheless whether deliberate or not, this must be classed as dangerous play and stamped our very firmly before a player is seriously injured or worse. Far more dangerous than a tip tackle or taking a player out in the air, and more dangerous than a neck roll or tackle without using the arms. We will find out if the IRB are really serious about protecting the players from head injuries, when we see how they react to this incident!

DaveM wrote:It was obviously accidental (from the angle on the clip it was even possible that he made glancing contact with the ball). It was also dangerous so I expect there will be a citing. What I don't really understand is the delight that will apparently result if this happens though. After-all, it was an accident......

DaveM wrote:It was obviously accidental (from the angle on the clip it was even possible that he made glancing contact with the ball). It was also dangerous so I expect there will be a citing. What I don't really understand is the delight that will apparently result if this happens though. After-all, it was an accident......

DaveM wrote:It was obviously accidental (from the angle on the clip it was even possible that he made glancing contact with the ball). It was also dangerous so I expect there will be a citing. What I don't really understand is the delight that will apparently result if this happens though. After-all, it was an accident......

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't see how using your shoulder and nothing else is acceptable, seemed to fool everyone by flailing his arm around afterwards.

offload wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't see how using your shoulder and nothing else is acceptable, seemed to fool everyone by flailing his arm around afterwards.

It's not that difficult to understand. He made an attempt to wrap his arm at the same time the player jumped (which is penalty). It was reviewed. You really should get over it and start giving some thought to how you beat Australia.

milkyboy wrote:Of course the ball was behind him, he'd just missed it.

offload wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't see how using your shoulder and nothing else is acceptable, seemed to fool everyone by flailing his arm around afterwards.

It's not that difficult to understand. He made an attempt to wrap his arm at the same time the player jumped (which is penalty). It was reviewed. You really should get over it and start giving some thought to how you beat Australia.

emack2 wrote:The games over let the recriminations cease this Group was always about the big 3
versus each other.Australia have there bonus point win versus Uruguay,England
should a least get that. Uruguay are arguably the weakest team in the RWC weaker
even than Namibia.
Wales need a bonus point win versus Fiji then it is straight who beats who BOTH
sides need to change there gameplan.Kicking to Aus is suicide try using the Scrum
to feed the backs not the macho stuff.

No9 wrote:All those trying to defend Wood, saying he was going for the ball. Take those rose tinted specs off, look at it again. The ball is out when he goes in with the kick, it's nowhere near the ball.

Therefore, if he uses the going to kick the ball defence the citing commission will hang him out to dry.

During the game, mind you I had consumed quite a few beers by then, I didn't think anything in it. Thought it was just a playing accident. Since, seeing it on the news and the angle they showed, it was a clear kick, as his leg is straight, and the ball is actually no where near.

So as far as I'm concerned, that was deliberate, dangerous and he should be out for the rest of the season, as I personally don't believe there's a place in the game for thuggery (and that's what it was) like this.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

offload wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't see how using your shoulder and nothing else is acceptable, seemed to fool everyone by flailing his arm around afterwards.

It's not that difficult to understand. He made an attempt to wrap his arm at the same time the player jumped (which is penalty). It was reviewed. You really should get over it and start giving some thought to how you beat Australia.

Where does this jumping penalty myth come from? Lydiate was lucky to get away with that tbf.

majesticimperialman wrote:Having just watched the incident again, the ball is rolling on the floor just as Williams dives for the ball. The ball goes away from Williams, Wood try's to kick the ball and the ball rolls away from Wood as Williams head accidently rolls into Woods boot.

Looks like an accident to me.

doctor_grey wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Having just watched the incident again, the ball is rolling on the floor just as Williams dives for the ball. The ball goes away from Williams, Wood try's to kick the ball and the ball rolls away from Wood as Williams head accidently rolls into Woods boot.

Looks like an accident to me.

What time does that happen?  I want to go back and look.  Thanks!

doctor_grey wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Having just watched the incident again, the ball is rolling on the floor just as Williams dives for the ball. The ball goes away from Williams, Wood try's to kick the ball and the ball rolls away from Wood as Williams head accidently rolls into Woods boot.

Looks like an accident to me.

What time does that happen?  I want to go back and look.  Thanks!

No9 wrote:Well I don't know what you have watched.

Yes, Williams dives for the ball, but at the time Wood runs in and kicks the ball is well away from the bodies on the ground.

I agree it looks worse in slow-mo, but at real time, the ball can easily be seen to be 2-3 metres away from Liam at the time Wood kicked out.

If his reactions to kicking a ball is that b!oody slow, there is no way he should be playing international rugby.

I appreciate how sensitive this is, especially as most English fans will be looking for comfort, but guys, we don't need to see "thuggery" like this in rugby, and especially when its the world stage. And that goes for any player, any nation.