Chris Robshaw

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I feel for Chris Robshaw this morning.

It seems he must have spent a large amount of his life in the preceding three months running from one ITV advertising video promo shoot or editing suite to the next. I don't think there's ever been a home captain who has played such a huge role in the marketing and advertising of the tournament.

It's understandable why he would be feeling the pressure to the extent he is. To then be spectacularly thrown under the bus by his coach in the post match interview like he was must be galling and a little baffling.

It's a dog eat dog world in top high profile jobs, and I can imagine that Stuart Lancaster was relieved to avoid talking of his controversial selections for the match (and his inability to settle on a stable side, especially mid field).

I think now though, his stabbing action is in danger of cutting a rift between captain coach and senior players. A disharmonious team is rarely a successful one. In light of Lancaster's direction of blame to his captain, does that not make it his duty to change captains or risk look ineffective? A slippery slope, surely?

Is this a new trend for our 6's in a tournament. Play really well in the first game then worse and worse and the tournament goes on?

A lot of the time, it looked to me as though England weren't contesting the ball at the breakdown for fear of getting penalised. It didn't strike me as the wisest thing to do. Pick your battles, fair enough, but don't just let them keep the ball. Slow it down, at least.

I agree with Ruby and FEX, hes good enough as an all action 6 but falls short as a 7/ball snaffler and also as a captain. Hes not ha da great track record on snap decisions, doesnt seem able to inspire his team in crunch games (quite the opposite), and doesnt handle referees well.

I can see an ongoing place in the squad/side for him but Id like to see a new captain. Of course the problem there is who ...

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Camilla Kerslake, known as the 'Scrummy Soprano', says she has been abused in the street following the decision by her boyfriend Chris Robshaw to go for a try against Wales that ultimately led to defeat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11909200/Camilla-Kerslake-girlfriend-of-England-rugby-captain-tells-of-threats.html

Glad you posted that, mate.  I read that article this morning and it really peed me off.  Any abuse is totally unacceptable.  Whether we like Robshaw as a player or captain or not, it should have absolutely nothing to do with his personal life.  That's private and separate.  There are obviously all kinds of idiots in the world, and they seem to be increasing.  But for God's sake, to threaten people over this is pathetic and criminal.

Besides, by all accounts he is exactly the type of bloke one would want as his neighbor.  

This is a big problem in the "online era". It is far too easy to find someone's personal information online, and there are many hate groups/planned attacks through social media nowadays. It is getting worse.

Imagine if theyd had the internet in Will Carlings day and it was his "girlfriend"....

I know it feels like Groundhog Day even saying this, but the new coach (or Lancaster if he's retained) needs to get the balance right between long term (i.e. 4 years time) and winning the 6 Nations in either 2016 or 2017. Success breeds success, and the England players just haven't had enough experience of winning in those white jerseys.

The XV isn't going to experience wholesale changes. Players like Cole, Launchbury, Robshaw, Billy V, B Youngs, Ford, Joseph, Watson and Brown are highly likely to form the nucleus of the next team, whoever the coach may be, and the likes of Brookes, Kruis, Lawes, Wood, Farrell and May will probably be there or thereabouts as well.

Lancaster has built a young team and despite the result it doesn't feel like back to the drawing board time. Obvious positions to solve are 2, 7 and 12. Lancaster has been unlucky with 2 - Hartley is an idiot - but has made bad calls on 7 and 12. The next coach (or Lancaster) needs to sit down with a cold towel and make a decision on those positions (and stick with it).

Agree it's wrong to threaten Robshaw and his girlfriend.

Seems like a nice bloke, shouldn't be captain any more though.

Perhaps I am wrong but personally I think that Wood and Robshaw are too alike, both hard workers but not powerful ball carriers and not massive tacklers. Also neither are scavengers like Pocock or Hooper.

It's about getting the right balance.

RubyGuby wrote:Radge - How can you think Robshaw should still be Captain? His decision making now and in the past has been woeful.

And for the stats, well quantitative information alone is meaningless without the qualitative data to back it up. If you look at the stats then England hammered Australia. Nuff said.

What decisions do you think are woeful? The three points against Wales in that position was not a certainty.

I still think going for the corner was the right decision against Wales. It was the pack as a whole that did not execute the lineout move properly.

Robshaw is like Warburton a captain who leads by example or from a Scottish perspective like Kelly Brown, again leading by example.

Robshaw for me day by day is looking like a convenient scapegoat

Brown for Captain..... but on a leash................ and with a muzzle fitted................. and in a cage until gamedays....................

Exactly by what example is Robshaw leading by? He is a top bloke but a Captain he aint - To not kick for the posts and to throw to the front were woeful decisions and he does have a track record before that - I'm happy to disagree here Radge and for what its worth I think Warburton is an average Captain at best, he has been getting a bit better but AWJ remains the pulse and the go to man when it matters.

When England do well, Robshaw contributes just fine. When England do badly, he gets the blame.

He gets the blame for not being a snaffler. He gets the blame for being a carp captain. Most of the time he’s consistent and a very good flanker. In this RWC, like most of the other English players, he just didn’t play well enough. So he just needs to get back to his consistent self.

As for captain, what is the problem with leading by example? Why does a captain have to shout at fully grown professionals a la motormouth Biggar. I seem to remember MJ led by example, didn’t shout that much, and did ok.

In part he might have lacked experienced support from his other senior players.

England definitely paid for no backrow plan B off the bench.

Don't shoot the monkey, but definitely give the organ-grinder a slapping.

SecretFly wrote:Brown for Captain..... but on a leash................ and with a muzzle fitted................. and in a cage until gamedays....................

For me your captain can't be a member of the back 3. Mainly because the captains these days seem to be assisting the referee more and more. Members of the back 3 aren't involved enough at the breakdowns to assist in the interpretation of the laws on the deck, nor in the scrums to exert further refereeing pressures.

Besides can you imagine that Ned negotiating with the ref????


For the uninitiated :

Ned is a derogatory term applied in Scotland to hooligans, louts or petty criminals, latterly with the stereotypical implication that they wear casual sports clothes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_(Scottish)

beshocked wrote:Agree it's wrong to threaten Robshaw and his girlfriend.

Seems like a nice bloke, shouldn't be captain any more though.

Perhaps I am wrong but personally I think that Wood and Robshaw are too alike, both hard workers but not powerful ball carriers and not massive tacklers. Also neither are scavengers like Pocock or Hooper.

It's about getting the right balance.

Absolutely. Same with Parling and Launchbury together. All very competent players and loads of hard work in there, but not enough power or dynamism to shift the needle.

Of the four I'd probably keep Launchbury (4) and Robshaw (6). I'd then look for a bit more nasty from 5 and a breakdown dynamo at 7. Lawes or Attwood could work at 5 (although Kitchener, Slater and Kruis are also worth a look), and the outstanding option at 7 is Steffon Armitage (that old chestnut). Otherwise England are going to need to bite the bullet and blood one of Will Fraser, Luke Wallace or Matt Kvesic.

Whatever happens England are going to need to find a 7 with some pace to act as that traditional link between backs and forwards and get to the breakdown early doors - with strength over the ball. Combine that with Robshaw at 6, Launchbury at 4 and Cole at 3 and suddenly you've got the nucleus of a half decent breakdown pack.

I don't think England are looking at massive changes. Let's remember that before Lancaster's silly subs, England had Wales on toast. England are not a bad side. There's just an edge missing from the pack.

t'was a joke...

FES to be honest I still don't understand how Launchbury won the Man of the match award.

England got beasted at the breakdown. I haven't seen the stats but what did Launchbury do to get so much praise?

Wasn't he at least partially guilty for the first try with a missed tackle too?

Perhaps you can keep one of Launchbury and Robshaw but I think having both leaves England a little underpowered.

Whatever people say Launchbury and Robshaw are not big ball carriers who make big hits.

beshocked wrote:FES to be honest I still don't understand how Launchbury won the Man of the match award.

England got beasted at the breakdown. I haven't seen the stats but what did Launchbury do to get so much praise?

Wasn't he at least partially guilty for the first try with a missed tackle too?

Perhaps you can keep one of Launchbury and Robshaw but I think having both leaves England a little underpowered.

Whatever people say Launchbury and Robshaw are not big ball carriers who make big hits.

Well I haven't seen them in the showers but robshaw must be carrying something to attract the 'scrummy  soprano'...

Well he does have a fat tongue.

beshocked wrote:FES to be honest I still don't understand how Launchbury won the Man of the match award.

England got beasted at the breakdown. I haven't seen the stats but what did Launchbury do to get so much praise?

Wasn't he at least partially guilty for the first try with a missed tackle too?

Perhaps you can keep one of Launchbury and Robshaw but I think having both leaves England a little underpowered.

Whatever people say Launchbury and Robshaw are not big ball carriers who make big hits.

There was a link explaining it but I didn't bother to open it up. He clearly wasn't the best or most influential player on the field - that for my money was a two way contest between Foley and Pocock. How anyone in the England front five could scoop that award is beyond logic.

That said, I think Launchbury is an outstanding lock. Great work rate, great breakdown technique, good hands, quick for his position and consistently performs. The whole team misfired against Australia: Launchbury and Brown were probably the best of a bad bunch.

MOTM was decided by twitter. Let's face it if you are stupid enough to do that, anything can happen. Launchbury was one of England's better players, but MOTM ??????

IMO there are no real stars in the England team but plenty of good quality hard working players. Robshaw is a very good back row, puts in 100% every time and unfairly seems to get a lot of stick. It's easy to pounce on a few visible decisions and be critical, but I suspect SL is way more culpable.

I think England are a team devoid of leaders - not just talking Robshaw here - people who make the correct decisions in a pressure cooker situation, players who see things are going wrong and make changes on the field.

Schmidt says he has 5 leaders in the Ireland set up - I'd take any of those 5 over any England player, as a leader of men.

That is a culture England need to change

geoff999rugby wrote:I think England are a team devoid of leaders - not just talking Robshaw here - people who make the correct decisions in a pressure cooker situation, players who see things are going wrong and make changes on the field.

Schmidt says he has 5 leaders in the Ireland set up - I'd take any of those 5 over any England player, as a leader of men.

That is a culture England need to change

Totally agree but who have they to pick - look around the top premiership clubs who are the leaders?

I think Robshaw is a good captain, potentially a great one, but still learning and needs some experienced leaders around him in key positions to help him out - especially at hooker, lock, full back and the half backs.

I think that was why Burgess was selected, or at least one of the reasons.

Look at Australia - Moore, Pocock, Hooper and Giteau or Wales with Warburton, AWJ and Roberts, that's a big difference in big match experience and leadership, guys that have lifted trophies.

England have looked half fit in matches. I don't know if they were under-prepped or hey have been beasted so much they are knackered. Some players have been unfit coming into the RWC - Morgan, Launchbury, Barritt.

Robshaw is getting a lot of unjustified criticism, he was out played by 2 of the best against Oz, but was on a par with Warburton. I feel he has been let down by the lack of leadership in the team. No one else has stood up. Burgess was bought in because he showed leadership qualities, but was either not on for long enough or was subbed when needed. Parling called the line out, Youngs is taken off and Wood disappeared.

Wood is perceived in some media as the next captain and yet IMO he should be dropped. I would move Robshaw to 6 and look at Kvesic, Wallace, Clifford, Fraser at openside over the next couple of years to find out who has it at international level.

With the lack of leaders available I think Robshaw will continue for a while.

I would bet Robshaw will get fewer than 10caps beyond this world cup.

He's not a 7.

He's a 6. Yet he doesn't offer lineout prowess like Wood, Croft, Itoje etc. He doesn't carry like Haskell can etc.
He tackles and everyone needs a Joe Worsley in their squad I agree (although I don't think his tackling is at Joe's level). But tackling alone is not enough.

But as a captain he's dire. One of the worst. Watch Warburton, McCaw, Du Preez... they're something else when talking to refs. Robshaw can do nothing but protest... the others debate, acknowledge and then question as adults. Its a big diff.... and then there are his brain fades in the clutch moments.

I think Robshaw is just a little too nice. A decent player and a decent bloke but needs to take more steroids to get that 'roid rage going


Joke OK chaps - the steroids bit is a joke!

Is it?

I still see that maxi are still seeing advertising value in promoting Robshaw and co. mind.

Interesting policy.

England have looked half fit in matches. I don't know if they were under-prepped or hey have been beasted so much they are knackered.

I have actually wondered that as well.

And reports some players have lost a lot of weight. Not great in the front 5 when to me they are not the heaviest as it is.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

England have looked half fit in matches. I don't know if they were under-prepped or hey have been beasted so much they are knackered.

I have actually wondered that as well.

And reports some players have lost a lot of weight. Not great in the front 5 when to me they are not the heaviest as it is.

Ireland made the same mistake in 07 - this time we didn't train at all so will let you know in a few weeks how that went ....

GeordieFalcon wrote:

England have looked half fit in matches. I don't know if they were under-prepped or hey have been beasted so much they are knackered.

I have actually wondered that as well.

And reports some players have lost a lot of weight. Not great in the front 5 when to me they are not the heaviest as it is.

Lightest front 5 in tier 1 rugby. 560kg... next lowest was 585kg.

But with the heaviest backrow... and that isn't include Haskell (heavier than both Wood and Robshaw) and Vunipola (heavier than Morgan).

The balance is unreal... light front five, heavy backrow.

TJ wrote:I think Robshaw is just a little too nice.  A decent player and a decent bloke but needs to take more steroids to get that 'roid rage going

Well that didn't work so well for

In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

James Haskell looks like his gym work has gone into the stratosphere too. He looks gigantic. A bit like Pierre Spies before he got those clots on his lungs pre RWC07.

He's far too big.

doctor_grey wrote:In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

From a layman's perspective NZ seem to be streets ahead of everyone else in this field.

Their conditioning of their players is top notch. Rarely has their top stars out of action. The availability of McCaw and Carter for instance has been ridiculous compared to players from other nations. The first to give sabbaticals, prolonged rest periods and famously told Jerry Collins to stop weight training.

doctor_grey wrote:In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

There was a Graham Obree quote that I always (more or less) remember. He said something along the lines of it wasn't training that makes you fit it is the resting.

doctor_grey wrote:In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

Over training is a term that was invented to sell Men's health/muscle & fitness magazine and overpriced sport supplements and ginseng.

To make average Joe bloggs, who can barely bench 30kg, pay GNVQ qualified gym assistants to give to give them periodized training plans and get physios and sports injury gurus to tell them to use a foam roller to speed up recovery.

Good kick up the backside is whats needed, you didn't see Arnie or Rocky complaining about overtraining,

rodders wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

Over training is a term that was invented to sell Men's health/muscle & fitness magazine and overpriced sport supplements and ginseng.

To make average Joe bloggs, who can barely bench 30kg, pay GNVQ qualified gym assistants to give to give them periodized training plans and get physios and sports injury gurus to tell them to use a foam roller to speed up recovery.

Good kick up the backside is whats needed, you didn't see Arnie or Rocky complaining about overtraining,

Those behemoths weren't really playing a sport though Rodders! They were simply killing various arabs, russians, vietnamese, south africans (your A typical 80s bad guys)

fa0019 wrote:

rodders wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

Over training is a term that was invented to sell Men's health/muscle & fitness magazine and overpriced sport supplements and ginseng.

To make average Joe bloggs, who can barely bench 30kg, pay GNVQ qualified gym assistants to give to give them periodized training plans and get physios and sports injury gurus to tell them to use a foam roller to speed up recovery.

Good kick up the backside is whats needed, you didn't see Arnie or Rocky complaining about overtraining,

Those behemoths weren't really playing a sport though Rodders! They were simply killing various arabs, russians, vietnamese, south africans (your A typical 80s bad guys)

Hey that requires peak performance too!

rodders wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

rodders wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

Over training is a term that was invented to sell Men's health/muscle & fitness magazine and overpriced sport supplements and ginseng.

To make average Joe bloggs, who can barely bench 30kg, pay GNVQ qualified gym assistants to give to give them periodized training plans and get physios and sports injury gurus to tell them to use a foam roller to speed up recovery.

Good kick up the backside is whats needed, you didn't see Arnie or Rocky complaining about overtraining,

Those behemoths weren't really playing a sport though Rodders! They were simply killing various arabs, russians, vietnamese, south africans (your A typical 80s bad guys)

Hey that requires peak performance too!

Takes a lot of strength to fire an M60 from the hip and still maintain deadly accuracy!

Damn straight, especially without a rest day and 10 hours sleep!

rodders wrote:Damn straight, especially without a rest day and 10 hours sleep!

and fighting the viet cong with just a bowie knife, a compass and his wits to stay alive. When the RFU have a firesale I'll send the rambo boxset as my CV for conditioning coach.

fa0019 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:In my experience, overtraining is very common.  In fact, many sports injuries I treat are directly attritubutable to overtraining.   It can lead to match fatigue (as we have seen), injuries, mental fatigue.  It's not rocket science, although frequently people who should know better treat it like rocket science.

From a layman's perspective NZ seem to be streets ahead of everyone else in this field.

Their conditioning of their players is top notch. Rarely has their top stars out of action. The availability of McCaw and Carter for instance has been ridiculous compared to players from other nations. The first to give sabbaticals, prolonged rest periods and famously told Jerry Collins to stop weight training.

Wales get injuries: Overtaining blamed
Wales beat England in late comeback: Englands over training blamed