England vs Australia, 3 October

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ENGLAND v AUSTRALIA
3 October 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: George Clancy (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

43 Played 43
18 Won 24
1 Drawn 1
24 Lost 18
661 Points 907

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Twickenham, London
26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013
Twickenham, London
20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012
Twickenham, London
14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010
Twickenham, London
35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010
Telstra Stadium, Sydney
20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010
Subiaco Oval, Perth
27 – 17 to Australia

7 November 2009
Twickenham, London
9 – 18 to Australia

15 November 2008
Twickenham, London
14 – 28 to Australia

6 October 2007
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France
10 – 12 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 41 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 25 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 18 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 33 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 35 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 26 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 41 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 30 caps)

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 25 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 8 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 52 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 25 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)

AUSTRALIA

1. Scott Sio (12 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (c) (97 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (58 Tests)
4. Kane Douglas (18 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (55 Tests)
6. Scott Fardy (25 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (vc) (47 Tests)
8. David Pocock (51 Tests)

9. Will Genia (61 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (22 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (28 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (97 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (25 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc) (109 Tests)
15. Israel Folau (34 Tests)

*Reserves to be confirmed

funnyExiledScot wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Aus team to face England

Scott Sio,
Stephen Moore (c),
Sekope Kepu,
Kane Douglas,
Rob Simmons,
Scott Fardy,
Michael Hooper (vc),
David Pocock,
Will Genia,
Bernard Foley,
Rob Horne,
Matt Gitaeu,
Tevita Kuridrani,
Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc),
Israel Folau

I don't fancy Burgess against a player as clever as Matt Giteau, and the England breakdown skills which were so badly hammered by the ref against Wales are going to need to be razor sharp to compete against Hooper and Pocock. Don't support you weight on your hands Dan Cole (or at least don't make it so obvious!!).

As ever it goes both ways. How is Giteau going to feel about tackling Burgess? But then by the time Burgess gets on the pitch Giteau will be half asleep having only had Barritt to worry about...

England team announcement been delayed... Anyone got an inside track on why?

It'll be waiting on the fitness tests surely?

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Dan Cole (or at least don't make it so obvious!!).

Is the cruciual bvit, as watching Pooper and Hocock against Fiji they were doing the same as Cole.


all irrelevant as England will be smashed of the park by the aussies.

MarcusHalberstram wrote:England team announcement been delayed... Anyone got an inside track on why?

youngs, Morgan and JJ being given as long as possible to pass fitnerss tests.

Tbh I find the whole supporting your own body weight thing a bit of a lottery - to me it looks like a high percentage of 'legal' turnovers aren't complying as unless your upper body is made of some sort of anti-gravity material then if your feet are further back than your hips there is no way the laws of physics will allow you to support your own weight - in some cases the tacklers are almost horizontal ...

munkian wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

munkian wrote:Barritt was absolutely awful. Absolute dog poopie.

Says something about Wales then I spose if he was that awful.

Its says something about how bad at substitutions Lancaster is by bringing Burgess off.

But we've known that since day dot.....

Heaf wrote:Tbh I find the whole supporting your own body weight thing a bit of a lottery - to me it looks like a high percentage of 'legal' turnovers aren't complying as unless your upper body is made of some sort of anti-gravity material then if your feet are further back than your hips there is no way the laws of physics will allow you to support your own weight - in some cases the tacklers are almost horizontal ...

Yeah, but sometimes it's more blatant than others. Hooper won a pen for Aus - with Fiji in an attacking position - by ending up bridging sideways across the ruck - nowhere near competing for the ball but effectively blocking Fiji from getting at it. I was amazed it was given, but then different refs care about different things at the breakdown.

I really hope that the delayed team announcement is so that Lancaster can finally show us why the team has been leaked so early for so long, by announcing a completely different (and better) team at the last moment to wrong foot the aussies.

No chance unfortunately.

We need to find that leak.

Yeah, what's the deal with that leak... England teams being leaked days before to the tory press, and no one seems to mind.

Most leaks to the press are quite deliberate, though not always. Often they are a way of keeping the press onside by giving them a "scoop". Kind of a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" thing. In this case though I think it's bloody stupid. Why give the Aussies extra time to prepare for our team. Especially when we could put out some very different back lines if we wanted to.

lostinwales wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Aus team to face England

Scott Sio,
Stephen Moore (c),
Sekope Kepu,
Kane Douglas,
Rob Simmons,
Scott Fardy,
Michael Hooper (vc),
David Pocock,
Will Genia,
Bernard Foley,
Rob Horne,
Matt Gitaeu,
Tevita Kuridrani,
Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc),
Israel Folau

I don't fancy Burgess against a player as clever as Matt Giteau, and the England breakdown skills which were so badly hammered by the ref against Wales are going to need to be razor sharp to compete against Hooper and Pocock. Don't support you weight on your hands Dan Cole (or at least don't make it so obvious!!).

As ever it goes both ways. How is Giteau going to feel about tackling Burgess? But then by the time Burgess gets on the pitch Giteau will be half asleep having only had Barritt to worry about...

It doesn't really go both ways. Very rarely do top class rugby players in the Big 3 SH teams get smashed aside, regardless of how big the opposition. We in the NH need to get over the idea that we'll be able to smash through the Big 3. It so rarely happens and Giteau is a pretty astute defender and he's played against some pretty meaty opponents at inside centre over his extensive career. Tackling Burgess won't bother him one bit. He'll be far too excited about the attacking opportunities a complete novice like Burgess presents. Playing Burgess in this game would be a colossal error in my opinion. Australia will make him look like a complete clown in defence.

screamingaddabs wrote:I really hope that the delayed team announcement is so that Lancaster can finally show us why the team has been leaked so early for so long, by announcing a completely different (and better) team at the last moment to wrong foot the aussies.

No chance unfortunately.

This is Lancaster your talking about. We know what subs he will bring on and what time in the Match before he does.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:I really hope that the delayed team announcement is so that Lancaster can finally show us why the team has been leaked so early for so long, by announcing a completely different (and better) team at the last moment to wrong foot the aussies.

No chance unfortunately.

This is Lancaster your talking about. We know what subs he will bring on and what time in the Match before he does.

Funny. But true.

I've actually been fairly supportive of Lancaster for a while now. I feel he generally seems to have had a plan and be working towards it (even if people disagree with said plan) and I thought he was doing a good job. I am monumentally disappointed this world cup that he seems to have thrown it all out the window.

You guys are right - it's the subs. Even when I thought his Burgess and Barritt line up was a crock of brown, it actually worked quite well. The problem was his subs. He didn't even have the right players on the bench. If he had had Slade or Nowell on the bench it may have made sense, but instead he had Goode - who he didn't use.

The backline for this game should be:

Youngs (if fit)
Farrell (or Ford, I actually don't care which)
May
Barritt (or Burgess, don't mind)
JJ (if fit, Slade if not)
Watson
Brown

Bench:

Care/Wigs (don't care which, each offer something different)
Ford/Farrell (the one that's not starting)
Slade (if not starting) or Nowell

Simples. The starters may look a bit like that, but with Burgess rumoured on the bench we are up the proverbial creek if JJ (carrying a knock anyway) gets injured.

He has picked Slade and Nowell, blydi well use them!

Per BBC team is:

England XV: Mike Brown; Anthony Watson, Jonathan Joseph, Brad Barritt, Jonny May, Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole, Joe Launchbury, Geoff Parling, Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Ben Morgan.

Replacements: Webber, M Vunipola, Brookes, Kruis, Easter, Wigglesworth, Ford, Burgess

So (almost) all as predicted - Easter is in which makes sense given Morgan's current issues and the fact that Robshaw and Wood seem to run all day

Hmm .. think I would have preferred Easter as lock/8 cover to give us the option of another flanker on the bench

In case of injury, would not fancy any of Parling/Launch/Kruis going to 6

Lawes not in the bench. Crocked or dropped?

Teams ok. Except Burgess on the bench. When Joseph takes a knock what do we do? Barritt and Burgess. Oh, great. If a wing takes a knock? Barritt and Burgess and JJ on the wing? If Brown takes a knock? Watson to FB, JJ to wing and Burgess and Barritt...

Will the Aussies be at all worried about England changing things up through the use of their bench, or indeed worried by the bench at all? I don't think so.

milkyboy wrote:Lawes not in the bench. Crocked or dropped?

Crocked I think

BamBam wrote:Hmm .. think I would have preferred Easter as lock/8 cover to give us the option of another flanker on the bench

In case of injury, would not fancy any of Parling/Launch/Kruis going to 6

Good point.

The bench should offer something different as well as covering the vast majority of injuries in a satisfactory way. I don't think it does unfortunately.

milkyboy wrote:Lawes not in the bench. Crocked or dropped?

Have to be crocked given the Wales match. He hasn't been great by his standards but I don't think he's been poor either

I can't believe Nowell is nowhere here

England side to face Australia, Saturday 3 October

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 41 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 25 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 18 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 33 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 35 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 26 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 41 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 30 caps)


Replacements

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 25 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 8 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 52 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 25 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)

BURGESS ON THE BENCH REALLY SL?

RubyGuby wrote:I can't believe Nowell is nowhere here

Its a joke Ruby and I'm not laughing.

You could view this as a 6:2 bench forwards to back, with a game plan of trying to stuff Australia upfront and get Farrell to kick it. No attacking back replacements needed!

Is burgess not seen as emergency flanker cover? I'm not sure what happens if a winger or fullback gets crocked.  JJ to the wing?

I'm beginning to think our coaches are out of their depth.

milkyboy wrote:Is burgess not seen as emergency flanker cover? I'm not sure what happens if a winger or fullback gets crocked.  JJ to the wing?

That has happened before and would probably happen here.

Why are Slade and Nowell in the squad? What exactly do they have to do to get a bench spot?

I will support our team 100% come game day, and I actually think Lncaster (up until the world cup) was doing a good job, but his bench selections in the world cup have been mind boggling.

lostinwales wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Lawes not in the bench. Crocked or dropped?

Have to be crocked given the Wales match. He hasn't been great by his standards but I don't think he's been poor either

I didn't hear that he had been injured? I thought it was just a tactical change by Lancaster.... The right one as well, seeing as he was a bit of a penalty machine. Launchbury and Parling is a good lock combo.

With Joseph fit I would have gone with Ford, and had Slade on the bench instead of Burgess. I've also been a bit disappointed with Parling this WC, so would have had Lawes or Kruis starting instead.

I want England to progress, but I think Wales will do the business tonight and Australia will win at the weekend.

And if we do lose this it won't be down to Burgess being there. It might be down to not having a Slade or Nowell because he is there instead but he will carry on doing what he has been picked for.

I can only guess that Care is really out of form though

screamingaddabs wrote:Why are Slade and Nowell in the squad?  What exactly do they have to do to get a bench spot?

I will support our team 100% come game day, and I actually think Lncaster (up until the world cup) was doing a good job, but his bench selections in the world cup have been mind boggling.

I bet Goode is gutted to miss out too!!!!!!

mikey_dragon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Lawes not in the bench. Crocked or dropped?

Have to be crocked given the Wales match. He hasn't been great by his standards but I don't think he's been poor either

I didn't hear that he had been injured? I thought it was just a tactical change by Lancaster.... The right one as well, seeing as he was a bit of a penalty machine. Launchbury and Parling is a good lock combo.

At the time they were saying it was a knee injury I think. He had a lot of strapping on one leg and wasn't quite the dynamic beast he can be (in which case why the hell did they risk him in the first place when they had Launchbury ready )

Seeing the team sheets, barring any early injuries, I can't really see past an England win here. I just have a feeling the Aussies will wilt when faced with the crowd at Twickers. If you really have to win, England - at least win big and deny them any kind of BP.

I really would have liked some more options on the bench in the backs.

I am pleased Easter is a sub though, a bit of leadership on the field when he comes on at 63 minutes gone (and not a minute earlier or later, I would hate for changes to be based on what is happening on the pitch). I think England can win this, whether they will or not is another story!

TightHEAD wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:Why are Slade and Nowell in the squad?  What exactly do they have to do to get a bench spot?

I will support our team 100% come game day, and I actually think Lncaster (up until the world cup) was doing a good job, but his bench selections in the world cup have been mind boggling.

I bet Goode is gutted to miss out too!!!!!!

We're probably about to hear from the tabloid press whatever dirt Goode has had on Lancaster all this time.

screamingaddabs wrote:Why are Slade and Nowell in the squad?  What exactly do they have to do to get a bench spot?

I will support our team 100% come game day, and I actually think Lncaster (up until the world cup) was doing a good job, but his bench selections in the world cup have been mind boggling.

Totally agree. Danny care too. Ive supported SL & the coaches since day 1 but I'm beginning to think this tournament and has exposed them for being out of their depth. I want to be proven wrong but...

Danny Care must have slept with SL wife to miss out on a bench spot, Wigglesworth has no place being anywhere near Twickers on Saturday evening.

Care at his best is a very good player. Sounds like he isn't

What I find particularly sill is that our back line replacements ALL only play one position. We have Nowell and Slade in the squad. One covers 3 positions, the other covers 4. Utility players (in a good way). Why are neither of them on the bench?!

Coz the coaches are F'wits?

What is really frustrating me most about this team is that I think the players / team are good enough to make the QF maybe even the SF but unfortunately the coaches who prior to the RWC have done a great job have been shown up by their lack of experience and have panicked.

I think the whole world knows danny care is our best scrum half when on form. I'm not going to get on lancaster's case about him, he's either carrying a knock we don't know about or has been so poor in training he's unpickable.

Interesting from Aussie Glaws coach Laurie Fisher:
Fisher has in-depth knowledge of the strengths and weakness of Morgan’s opposite number, David Pocock and the Wallabies open-side flanker Michael Hooper from his time as forwards coach at Super 15 side the Brumbies and Australia A.
And he believes that Morgan has the ability both to nullify the turn-over threat of those two breakdown predators and also use his ball-carrying strength give England the go-forward ball to win the match and keep their World Cup campaign alive.
“Ben can be the match-winner for England, if he can provide them with the gain-line front-foot ball that is required they have got the players who can play off the back of that,” Fisher said.
“England have got some reasonable running forwards but he is probably going to be the focal point of that. At his best he is the best carrier in that pack.
“Ben is a big man, a powerful athlete and his sole job on Saturday should be to carry ball and make people tackle him. That is what he does best. When he grits his teeth and powers up, he carries strongly and that is what we have been encouraging him to do for us.
“He should not look for passing opportunities, they will come off the back of his first job, which is to carry strongly and bend the (defensive) line and recycle quick ball.
“He is a good athlete, he had got a bit of lateral in his footwork and good acceleration which are really good attributes. One of the keys to England’s game is that he can get to that soft shoulder and get those extra yards or get his hands free and offload.”
He said the 26 year-old had shown remarkable commitment to make a full recovery from the broken leg his sustained in the Premiership match against Saracens in January.
"Once he got the ball and just shifted it to Geoff Parling," Fisher said. "I just said to myself ‘Why isn’t Ben Morgan carrying that ball?’ He did the same on an attack on the short side when he shifted the ball to someone else.
“The key for him on Saturday is not to shift the ball before the line so that the opposition do not have to tackle him. You want players to have to tackle him. His bread and butter is to carry strongly.”

Fisher is confident that Morgan has now enough game time under his belt to hit top gear against Australia and his role will also be key in neutralising the threat of Pocock and Hooper in the breakdown contest that is likely to be critical to the result.
“There is a lot more size in the England back row, but the Australia back row is much more harder on the ball on the ground with the Hooper and Pocock double act,” Fisher added.

“They are different skill sets. Ben has got to have a very clear picture in his mind about carrying strongly from the back of the scrum, which is what he did well in the autumn international against the Wallabies.

“He has to bend the line. If he can attract two or three defenders and be well supported by his team-mates to get quick ball over the gainline then England have got pace out wide to benefit from that. He just needs to keep it simple.

“England have to provide clear and obvious targets for support players and if Ben has made the decision to carry then they need to make an attachment before the player hits the ground and deny a contest for the ball. You don’t want to spend the whole game solving problems.
“He has to use his footwork and power to find soft shoulders, use his leg drive to power through and for his support players to recycle quickly. If he gets the ball going forward, it does not matter who you are playing against, you are going to threaten them.”

Is Bomber afraid to drop Burgess out of the squad for a Nowell or Slade as it will suggest that he got it wrong. He's either the big leader they want on the pitch or not. SL for me is stuck somewhere in between and its no good for Burgess and no good for England. Only time will tell.

That's it I'm done, Far too angry to post on this subject anymore today.