Ireland v Italy, 4 October

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IRELAND V ITALY
4 October 2015
KO: 16:45
Olympic Stadium, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Pascal Gaüzère (France) & Angus Gardner (Australia)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

24 Played 24
20 Won 4
0 Drawn 0
4 Lost 20
772 Points 382

B. Recent Form

7 February 2015
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
3 – 26 to Ireland

8 March 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 7 to Ireland

16 March 2013
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
22 – 15 to Italy

25 February 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
42 – 10 to Ireland

2 October 2011
Otago Stadium, Dunedin, New Zealand
36 – 6 to Ireland

C. Teams

IRELAND

15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)

1. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster) captain
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements

16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
20. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)

ITALY

Luke McLean; Leonardo Sarto, Michele Capagnaro, Gonzalo Garcia, Giovanbattista Venditti; Tommaso Allan, Edoardo Gori; Matias Aguero, Andrea Manici, Lorenzo Cittadini; Quintin Geldenhuys, Josh Furno; Francesco Minton, Simone Favaro, Sergio Parisse (capt).

Replacements: Davide Giazzon, Michele Rizzo, Dario Chistolini, Alessandro Zanni, Mauro Bergamasco, Guglielmo Palazzani, Carlo Canna, Tommaso Benvenuti.

Iain Henderson and Lood De Jager are like 2 peas in a pod

Henderson the best player on the pitch is hauled off. Strange.

Hopefully Henry can stake a claim for a starting place next week. POM and SOB pretty poor today. I almost forgot Heaslip was playing. I agree with Notch and would possibly go further on the forwards- the worst performance from the pack since Kidney was coach

I don't mind a kicking game if it is going to be accurate and effective. Murray has been dreadful and Sexton only marginally better

Should be yellow for POM. Silly.

Absolutely stupid from POM. As Gael said, should have been hauled off earlier.

A 7 point match, Italy filling with confidence and you get yourself yellow carded. Mind numbingly stupid. Pathetic from a player we are told by his supporters is a future Iresnd captain and great leader.

Not very convincing from the, media titled, NH team most likely to lift the cup.

Hold
On
To
The f u c k i n g
Ball

No9 wrote:Not very convincing from the, media titled, NH team most likely to lift the cup.

Well if we hold out here we're definitely in the top 4 most likely NH winners.

Bad call... Yes obstruction, but what about the forward pass...

Why didn't the TMO come in like in other games..,

Sexton misses the clutch kick.

One of these teams is a supposed title contender... The other team is Ireland .

Well done Ireland... Had to win, you did. But need to step up a gear... Not convincing.

Well, Italy are out now mikey. And we will fight another day.

Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

I just can't see what POM is offering us aside from a jumping option in the lineout.....I really want him dropped and a backrow of O'Brien, Henry and Heaslip.  Would help our breakdown no end and would mean O'Brien could concentrate on carrying.

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Keith Earls will never make it at the top level at 13. I think that argument has been well and truly answered.

In what way has it been answered? He made a mistake, shock horror all players make mistakes. At least he gets into those positions. Do you remember his run and pass to set up Rob Kearney for his try?

Does the little inside pass to Bowe from Sexton (that has led to at least 3 knock-ons) mean that Sexton is a bad player?

It is his frequently bad decision making, as it always has been and always will be.

BTW I was never claiming Earls was the worst player on the pitch from my earlier post (not sure how people came to that conclusion) but it is clear why Payne is ahead of him for the 13 shirt.

Very unconvincing today from Ireland. The forwards (Henderson aside) were extremely poor. The backs were marginally better but were poor as well.

I cant stand this kicking the ball away so much from Ireland, it is a clear tactic but it annoys the hell out of me.

Crisis time?

LordDowlais wrote:Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

Thanks for that, every one on this forum rates your opinion so highly that this is really quite a profound statement.

Artful_Dodger wrote:I just can't see what POM is offering us aside from a jumping option in the lineout.....I really want him dropped and a backrow of O'Brien, Henry and Heaslip.  Would help our breakdown no end and would mean O'Brien could concentrate on carrying.

Not sure why POM should be dropped. He was one of the few to make consistent metres in contact and it is clear that his role in defence is as a covering tackler (similar to Tom Croft for England) which is why he doesn't always lead the tackle count. Today proved why he is there as a covering tackler as well.

I have also noticed he is one of the first Irish players to every attacking breakdown, it is usually turned over when he isn't involved. Dropping him would make things even worse. Plus he makes the hard yards when required.

Lots of players playing on former reputation; SOB, POM to name two and if Zebo was called Murphy he wouldn't be half as "exciting".

We need to be nastier and faster. Offload in the tackles like SH trams.
Thankfully Payne will be back next week to sort this out.

Artful_Dodger wrote:I just can't see what POM is offering us aside from a jumping option in the lineout.....I really want him dropped and a backrow of O'Brien, Henry and Heaslip.  Would help our breakdown no end and would mean O'Brien could concentrate on carrying.

Disagree thought Henderson and him were our best players (idiotic card aside). Wouldnt mind Henry coming in for SOB though. Hes been very quiet for a while.

On the other hand I thought Heaslip was just plain weak. He was driven off the ball too often at the rucks and he was pedestrian throughout.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

Thanks for that, every one on this forum rates your opinion so highly that this is really quite a profound statement.

Thanks, it's about time I got some recognition for all my insightful knowledge I post on here. Cheers it means a lot to me Dodge.

Ireland really lucky in the end to win that game. Italy really pushed them hard.

But a win is a win, so well done Ireland.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:I just can't see what POM is offering us aside from a jumping option in the lineout.....I really want him dropped and a backrow of O'Brien, Henry and Heaslip.  Would help our breakdown no end and would mean O'Brien could concentrate on carrying.

Not sure why POM should be dropped. He was one of the few to make consistent metres in contact and it is clear that his role in defence is as a covering tackler (similar to Tom Croft for England) which is why he doesn't always lead the tackle count. Today proved why he is there as a covering tackler as well.

I have also noticed he is one of the first Irish players to every attacking breakdown, it is usually turned over when he isn't involved. Dropping him would make things even worse. Plus he makes the hard yards when required.

The breakdown was absolutely terrible today. Apart from Henderson the protection of our own ball was dreadful. The backrow collectively was poor. Henry is breathing down the necks of POM and SOB. It's hard to believe Murray could play as badly next week- he was shocking. Sexton's kicking was poor from hand. The centres and back three barely got that ball. Earls showed he is dangerous but his decision making isn't good enough, often enough.

Thought the whole backrow was poor. POM best of a bad bunch. SOB living on reputation. Would be inclinded to put Henderson to 6 and POM to 7 and bring Devin in. Thought Sexton was poor. Didn't get the back line moving except for the try. Earls back to 11 and payne at 13. Actually Bowe was decent

I wasn't going to watch this match because I expected it to be one way traffic.

Switched onto the channel as thr second half started, and found myself enjoying more what the airalians did than the Irish.

If Ireland wants to top this pool they are going to have to show a bit more endeavour with ball in hand, you can't play Springbok tactics 2007 anymore.

Team skills have improved, and you cannot just wait to exploit the mistakes of the opponent.

The breakdown was awful, but it was clear that when POM/Henderson were involved we secured the ball efficiently. They can't carry the entire pack though. The rest of them were poor in this particular area, Heaslip in particular being driven off the ball a number of times. It was weak.

I would still like to see Henderson starting in the back row for a game but it is probably too late for that sort of change now.

LordDowlais wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

Thanks for that, every one on this forum rates your opinion so highly that this is really quite a profound statement.

Thanks, it's about time I got some recognition for all my insightful knowledge I post on here. Cheers it means a lot to me Dodge.

The last tier 1 opposition Ireland faced was England, and they lost. England just got booted out of the world cup. Think about it...

While the italians played well, we were poor. Too slow in defence and attack. Surely we can't be that bad again??? Hard to know what to so next week. Who was MOTM. Thought Gori was good

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

Thanks for that, every one on this forum rates your opinion so highly that this is really quite a profound statement.

Thanks, it's about time I got some recognition for all my insightful knowledge I post on here. Cheers it means a lot to me Dodge.

The last tier 1 opposition Ireland faced was England, and they lost. England just got booted out of the world cup. Think about it...

Clever boy! I think you have hit the nail right on the head!

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

Thanks for that, every one on this forum rates your opinion so highly that this is really quite a profound statement.

Thanks, it's about time I got some recognition for all my insightful knowledge I post on here. Cheers it means a lot to me Dodge.

The last tier 1 opposition Ireland faced was England, and they lost. England just got booted out of the world cup. Think about it...

Actually the last tier 1 nation we beat was Italy less than half an hour ago.

Pathetic stuff.  I don't care how much they planned to play it tight and 'safe' and get the win.  There was nothing 'safe' about that effort.  We almost botched the whole show and it Wasn't needed.
And I don't care about the actual gameplay - I care about the plodding feet, the walking around, the heavy breathing with little much done, the minds often seeming to be elsewhere, the idea that there was no urgency to use up the 80 minutes of time to put us safe on the scoreboard in one 10 or fifteen minute period of real resolve.  
There never seemed to be the urgency that should come with a 'must win' game.  Puzzling, because the only thing that would presume such a mood is an inner 'arrogance' in the side that enough is enough against Italy and that it always would be.

A shapeless mess of a game and created by Ireland answering the call of Italy once more to get involved in a scrappy game.

Ireland circa................. well, whenever the last era was that we hoofed the ball haphazardly at a side with a man more than us, and dropped balls, and bloody heedlessly tapped balls backs into Italian hands.  Not too long ago, in other words.

The only bonus is that it was a good physical test.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

Thanks for that, every one on this forum rates your opinion so highly that this is really quite a profound statement.

Thanks, it's about time I got some recognition for all my insightful knowledge I post on here. Cheers it means a lot to me Dodge.

The last tier 1 opposition Ireland faced was England, and they lost. England just got booted out of the world cup. Think about it...

Actually the last tier 1 nation we beat was Italy less than half an hour ago.

They're outside the top 10 - I'm sure you get the jist of it.

SecretFly wrote:Pathetic stuff.  I don't care how much they planned to play it tight and 'safe' and get the win.  There was nothing 'safe' about that effort.  We almost botched the whole show and it Wasn't needed.
And I don't care about the actual gameplay - I care about the plodding feet, the walking around, the heavy breathing with little much done, the minds often seeming to be elsewhere, the idea that there was no urgency to use up the 80 minutes of time to put us safe on the scoreboard in one 10 or fifteen minute period of real resolve.  
There never seemed to be the urgency that should come with a 'must win' game.  Puzzling, because the only thing that would presume such a mood is an inner 'arrogance' in the side that enough is enough against Italy and that it always would be.

A shapeless mess of a game and created by Ireland answering the call of Italy once more to get involved in a scrappy game.

Ireland circa................. well, whenever the last era was that we hoofed the ball haphazardly at a side with a man more than us, and dropped balls, and bloody heedlessly tapped balls backs into Italian hands.  Not too long ago, in other words.

The only bonus is that it was a good physical test.

Couldn't agree more. It was Kidneyesque. Clueless, shapeless, hopeless. We will not beat France and they are a poor side.

Why do Ireland try this ridiculous inside pass off the back of set pieces? Not only is it always a hospital pass, it makes no ground.

Henderson is a must start now, and the back row needs looking at. Henry, Heaslip and POM probably the most balanced, and SOB is a becoming a bit of a liability.

Lucky to get out of that after the yellow card. Stupid by POM

mikey_dragon wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ireland will not beat France playing like that, this I can assure you.

Thanks for that, every one on this forum rates your opinion so highly that this is really quite a profound statement.

Thanks, it's about time I got some recognition for all my insightful knowledge I post on here. Cheers it means a lot to me Dodge.

The last tier 1 opposition Ireland faced was England, and they lost. England just got booted out of the world cup. Think about it...

Actually the last tier 1 nation we beat was Italy less than half an hour ago.

They're outside the top 10 - I'm sure you get the jist of it.

You didn't say top 10 you said tier 1. Your reasoning is about as accurate as saying if Wales lose to Australia, given that Australia are top 10, then it follows suit that 'think about it...' Wales are on their way out.

eirebilly wrote:Very unconvincing today from Ireland. The forwards (Henderson aside) were extremely poor. The backs were marginally better but were poor as well.

I cant stand this kicking the ball away so much from Ireland, it is a clear tactic but it annoys the hell out of me.

I think Best had a good game.

Schmidt strongly hinted that this game wasn't going to be one packed with tries, and so it proved. It was incredibly boring, but job done and next up a game that will definitely not be boring.

Agree with you on the kicking today. It was a bit much and at times aimless.

Guys, there seems to be an over-reaction here. You won. Italy are masters at making a mess of a game at the breakdown and hanging around offside so you are being too harsh on your backrow and half-backs.
Yes, you will need to up your game but at least Ireland can do so when they play better opposition.
Step away from the button marked "panic"!

Italy are a totally different team with Parisse, it was clear too last month when they played Wales at the Millenium.

I don't think SOB was as anonymous as some of you are saying, he was targeted which made life more difficult for him. I would keep him at 7, bring Henderson to 6 and play Ryan with POC in the second row which would make a more powerful pack.

Anyone looking for a loosehead, last i heard Matias Aguero who had Mike Ross in his pocket is still looking for a club!

What displeased me was the accuracy of the kicking, the accuracy of the clear-out, the passiveness of the defensive line, and the work rate of the forwards. That a lot of things that didn't go well enough.

No need to press the panic button, and this may be a good thing in that we will need a reaction and the players and coaches will demand it of themselves. But a disappointing performance.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Guys, there seems to be an over-reaction here. You won. Italy are masters at making a mess of a game at the breakdown and hanging around offside so you are being too harsh on your backrow and half-backs.
Yes, you will need to up your game but at least Ireland can do so when they play better opposition.
Step away from the button marked "panic"!

I'm not in a panic just yet. Pretty much expected that game today, although some of the errors were very disappointing.

Hoofing the ball aimlessly with three minutes to go, so headless.

Yes I will not read too much in this performance. Italy are a nuisance in the rucks and Parisse was on top form tonight giving them some go forward which they lacked previously. Sometimes a tean needs to have a weak game, a wake up call. Am sure that's all it was and Ireland will show a different face next sunday.

Positives? Henderson nailing down his place. Best had another decent game, carried well and worked in the concert with Henderson to affect several turnovers with choke tackles. I think we saw how much he does in the scrums when he went off too. I thought the back three were good, the halfbacks weren't accurate enough to give them aerial balls they can really attack, but they chased well and worked hard. Zebo was occasionally dangerous on the counterattack but I'll still be pretty worried if Kearney and Payne aren't back as organisers next week.

Sexton had a curates egg of a game. People by the end would have been desperate to see him hold onto the ball but I thought when we went down to 14 looking for touch became a good tactic for us to use since they were awful in their lineout. Making them play from where they are least comfortable. At that point it was just about holding on and cool heads. I would not be as critical of the kicks that looked for touch in their 22 as others on here are. But his all-round kicking game was mixed to say the least. Murray inside him I thought was very disappointing in terms of setting the tempo but its the speed of the clear-out and recycle that makes our game and he was left digging for it way, way too often.

The biggest issue for me was our passive defensive line at so many points in the game gave them free momentum. That is my biggest worry because that is a systemic problem.

Schmidt is obviously a fantastic coach. I find it hard to believe that today's performance is the best tactical gameplan we have. But it's hard to fathom though that any team could hold so much back to save it for the France match.

There was almost a friendly 'I don't want to get injured' or 'we have a bigger match to come' feel to that match. Simply not good enough.

When a pack is struggling you need your scrum half to come to the fore and try and dictate the tempo of the performance. That was arguably Murrays worst game in green. These things happen, we just have to hope he plays better next week. But today showed how much we rely on our halfbacks. When they are poor Ireland are a shambles.

Wasn't the best performance, but we got the win.

Need to step it up a couple of gears against what ever French side turns up.

Like Earls at 13.