Ireland vs Italy TEAM ANNOUNCED

Hi all,

I know it's early in the week for this to be up but thought I'd get it going anyway.
From what I understand we have no injuries to worry about bar Sexton and it looks like he should be declared fit to start.

The Italians have been looking quite good I think this year. They weren't bad against France and for huge parts of the game against England they were the better team but lost out.

Parisse and Masi are in great form in my opinion and they are supplemented by some good work by the predictably grisselled Italian pack although they have lost Castrogiovanni and their 9-10 look shaky.

From an Irish perspective, things are disappointing at present, poor tactics have lost us a number of games and the team don't seem to know what way to play and our consistently on different wavelengths. Great players like Ferris, O'Brien, O'Connell, Sexton and others are not turning up to play in Green the way they do for their provinces.

Score predictions?
Who you would pick in the team and why?
Italian weakness' and strengths?
Irish weakness' and strengths?
Fears?
Hopes?
Is Declan Kidney in serious danger at this stage? What would be his fate were we to lose this game?

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

Personally I'd go for

Healy-Best-Ross
Easy decision really

Ryan-POC
I think Ryan's mobility will be important and feel he offers more than DOC even if DOC's performances have upped.

Ferris-Heaslip-SOB
Still our best backrow we just have to use them properly. SOB is turning into a 7 quite quickly IMO and is winning turnovers/slowing ball.

Reddan-Sexton
Hopefully Sexton will be fit. Reddan speeds up the service and I think this will help us play a more attacking game and settle us in a certain style.

McFadden-Bowe
McFadden is better than Darcy IMO and offers a more rounded game. Bowe I think is our best option at 13 right now, I don't believe Earls is a 13 for a minute. I wish Cave/Fitz was fit or EOM more established.

Earls-Kearney-Trimble
I think Earls is a born winger and Kearney and Trimble have been playing well IMO so far and should continue there.

Court-Cronin-DOC-POM-Murray-ROG-D.Kearney

Understand why people wouldn't play Bowe 13 but I like him there and feel he could add something that Ireland are really missing of late. Cave being too injured is a major blow. If Bowe wasn't at 13 my preferred centre partnership would be Wallace-McFadden

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Understand why people wouldn't play Bowe 13 but I like him there and feel he could add something that Ireland are really missing of late. Cave being too injured is a major blow. If Bowe wasn't at 13 my preferred centre partnership would be Wallace-McFadden

I saw Tommy Bowe in Cardiff on Saturday. I wasn't going to speak but he shouted "hey Offload if they pick me at 13 for Italy I'll tell them where to shove it".

Personally, I thought it was a bit rude that he interrupted me like that.

I heard from somewhere that he wanted to start playing 13 again.

I honestly can't see what our best centre partnership is at all, they are all so average

Darcy-Earls
Darcy-McFadden
Darcy-Bowe
Wallace-Earls
Wallace-McFadden
Wallace-Bowe
McFadden-Earls
McFadden-Bowe
McFadden-O'Malley

Are any of these actually any good at all????

Wallace-Bowe, McFadden-O'Malley and McFadden-Bowe are the only ones that I like personally

Forwards I agree with.

Backs:

Rob Kearney 15
Dave Kearney 14
Earls 13
McFadden 12
Trimble 11
Sexton 10
Redden 9

I think Bowe is in so-so form right now and we should try something else. So Bowe on the bench.

This is a MUST win game for Kidney. Italy really did give France and England a hard time, this will not be easy. But we can't lose. I don't think we will sort anything out from the Wales game tbh, nor will this be a comfortable win, but as long as we win I'll be happy(ish).

In terms of the centre partnerships, I feel when BOD returns things will look more exciting. For now I feel Wallace has put his hand up for the 12 shirt more than anyone, and Earls probably deserves to play 13. Then when BOD returns he can play at 12. BOD and Earls I feel is a good partnership to take us into the future, for a while at least. Earls may move to the back three when one of the younger 13s come through also.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I heard from somewhere that he wanted to start playing 13 again.

I honestly can't see what our best centre partnership is at all, they are all so average

Darcy-Earls
Darcy-McFadden
Darcy-Bowe
Wallace-Earls
Wallace-McFadden
Wallace-Bowe
McFadden-Earls
McFadden-Bowe
McFadden-O'Malley

Are any of these actually any good at all????

Wallace-Bowe, McFadden-O'Malley and McFadden-Bowe are the only ones that I like personally

Pete I like the look of McFadden - O'Malley but don't think O'Malley is quite physically ready yet.

Beyond that I'd like to see McFadden alongside another natural 13 like Cave or to a lesser extent Spence (who like O'Malley is still learning). Griffin deserves a mention too.

Bowe and Earls are makeshift centres, Trimble is a more natural 13 than either but all 3 are better on the flanks.

Who is ahead in the pecking order - Simon Zebo or David Kearney.

We can't forget BOD guys. When he comes back, I hope he goes into 12 (where our options aren't as good) and helps bring in his replacement at 13. Things will look better at that point I feel.

red_stag wrote:Who is ahead in the pecking order - Simon Zebo or David Kearney.

Craig Gilroy

red_stag wrote:Who is ahead in the pecking order - Simon Zebo or David Kearney.

Evens.... I'd love to see either against Italy. Zebo has a bit more in attack I think but Kearney seems a more complete player. I've been super impressed by Kearney this year.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We can't forget BOD guys. When he comes back, I hope he goes into 12 (where our options aren't as good) and helps bring in his replacement at 13. Things will look better at that point I feel.

I think O'Driscoll 12 and Cave 13 could work well

Contrary to popular belief I believe Italy have gone backwards having watched them twice in the 6 Nations - Against France they offered little and their defence was woeful. Without Foden's help they would never have scored any trys against England. Castro is a big time has been and more of a show pony these days and 9 and 10 are awful. I cannot seee them scoring a try from running play. The Italy v England game was dreadful rugby quality and whilst we can bemoan the conditions Italy IMO were dreadful and look destined for a significant spooning - Ireland with 40 points on the board for me.

gowales wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We can't forget BOD guys. When he comes back, I hope he goes into 12 (where our options aren't as good) and helps bring in his replacement at 13. Things will look better at that point I feel.

I think O'Driscoll 12 and Cave 13 could work well

Far too radical, that would blow Kidney and the IRFU's collective minds.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Personally I'd go for

Healy-Best-Ross
Easy decision really

Ryan-POC
I think Ryan's mobility will be important and feel he offers more than DOC even if DOC's performances have upped.

No argument with your front 5 pete. That's what I'd go for too.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Ferris-Heaslip-SOB
Still our best backrow we just have to use them properly. SOB is turning into a 7 quite quickly IMO and is winning turnovers/slowing ball.

These guys are our best individual backrow players but collectively they just don't work. Not against a properly balanced backrow. They'll probably be OK against Italy given that they're all exceptional players but I'd argue that a backrow of

6. Ferris / O'Brien
7. O'Mahoney
8. O'Brien / Heaslip

would be a better bet. Call me biased but I really think that O'Mahoney could be the answer to unlocking the dynamism and running threat that we know Ferris, O'Brien & Heaslip are capable of.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Reddan-Sexton
Hopefully Sexton will be fit. Reddan speeds up the service and I think this will help us play a more attacking game and settle us in a certain style.

Personally I'd still persist with Murray as I thought he actually had a good game against Wales, he just came up against Phillips in devastating form. I wouldn't argue in the slightest if Reddan were to get the nod though.

Sexton hasn't played in quite a while now and needs gametime ahead of the France game so I'd agree with your selection of him. ROG is in great form though. Could be a horses for courses selection...

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
McFadden-Bowe
McFadden is better than Darcy IMO and offers a more rounded game. Bowe I think is our best option at 13 right now, I don't believe Earls is a 13 for a minute. I wish Cave/Fitz was fit or EOM more established.

Huge lack of decent options here. I'd love to see McFadden & Earls personally. No D'arcy please.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Earls-Kearney-Trimble
I think Earls is a born winger and Kearney and Trimble have been playing well IMO so far and should continue there.

I love the look of Zebo-Kearney-Trimble (Earls at 13). It'd be very harsh on D Kearney though given that he is looking a bit more polished at this stage. DK will never drop Bowe though so it'll be Trimble-Kearney-Bowe, as you were really.

What's that Declan? Same 22 as you named against France? Right so...

red_stag wrote:Who is ahead in the pecking order - Simon Zebo or David Kearney.

I obviously like both and am impressed by both. I see Zebo as an out and out wing with some serious potential in the try scoring department.

...I see D. Kearney as something very special brewing quietly. I think he's more robust and game savvy than perhaps Zebo is yet. But I think although people talk about Madigan as the future waiting to happen to Ireland, I think Dave Kearney is closer to that future and, in my humble opinion, will be more central to that Ireland than perhaps any young player either now part of or being forcast to join the Irish squad.

gowales wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We can't forget BOD guys. When he comes back, I hope he goes into 12 (where our options aren't as good) and helps bring in his replacement at 13. Things will look better at that point I feel.

I think O'Driscoll 12 and Cave 13 could work well

Spot on I am convinced this is our best combo - unfortunately both injured.

Earls, Trimble and Bowe to contest the two wings slots

Just as long and D'Arcy isnt there, for the love of god please no D'Arcy.

I can't see anyone who started last weekend starting this.

D'arcy will be at 12 with Earls at 13, no doubt about it.

Kidney doesn't really do unpredictable.....and even when he does, it's fairly predictable...

Dont say that Rodders.. Kidney will suprise us all and not pick D'Arcy

roddersm wrote:I can't see anyone who started last weekend starting this.

D'arcy will be at 12 with Earls at 13, no doubt about it.

Kidney doesn't really do unpredictable.....and even when he does, it's fairly predictable...

Oh you're on the button there (If Kidney reads this he'll pick some newbies just to prove me wrong!!) but you're on the button, Rodders - the side won't change dramatically.

That's why we do these fantasy selections; just to wile away the time until the inevitable happens.

Since we're talking fantasy experimentation, is the option of putting Sexton at 12 being overlooked?

Ireland need to develop another replacement for O'Gara - Keatley or Madigan likely.

I'd have a more beefy backline of Murray, O'Gara, Sexton, Bowe and put Trimble, Earls and R Kearney in the back three. Put McFadden/D Kearney, Madigan, and Zebo on the bench.

I doubt that we will see that again Pot, Kidney wont be that brave as to experiment. I really wanted to see Madigan or Keatley in the squad this year ahed of ROG but hey ho

would be a better bet. Call me biased but I really think that O'Mahoney could be the answer to unlocking the dynamism and running threat that we know Ferris, O'Brien & Heaslip are capable of.

I don't understand this at all tbh. POM himself is a dynamic running threat. In Ireland I think it is something all backrowers possess, and that isn't a bad thing either. Ferris, SOB and Heaslip all on form playing their natural game is the best balance we have, but we haven't seen them play their natural games yet. Could be the best backrow in the world if we get to see that IMO, and let them develop.

Hiii everyone new to the board but I was on the old 606.
I agree with Pot that a O Gara Sexton Bowe/ Earls combo could be the spark we need to reignite the Irish backline.
I remember when watching the churchill cup I think in 2009 and thinking McFadden was going to be the next big thing, I now think he might not be up to the job at International level.
In the longer scheme of thing Id like to see BOD move to 12 with Earls outside him, we seen this against wales at croke and I thought it worked extremely well.

Welcome Ulsterrugger1

Thanks Rodderm

Yeah welcom ulsterrugger, You used the same name on 606 did you not?

Thats the one Billy, singned up a while ago but forgot to use it ...

Congrats on Ulsters progess this year as well mate, doing some great stuff up there.

Thanks billy going quite well yeah, unfortunately couldnt get my hands on tickets for the quarters so did the next best thing and bought Leinster tickets for the Cardiff game, hopefully should be a cracker !

That's going to be a great game, cant see past Leinster but i dont think that it will be easy.

SecretFly wrote:

red_stag wrote:Who is ahead in the pecking order - Simon Zebo or David Kearney.

I obviously like both and am impressed by both. I see Zebo as an out and out wing with some serious potential in the try scoring department.

...I see D. Kearney as something very special brewing quietly. I think he's more robust and game savvy than perhaps Zebo is yet. But I think although people talk about Madigan as the future waiting to happen to Ireland, I think Dave Kearney is closer to that future and, in my humble opinion, will be more central to that Ireland than perhaps any young player either now part of or being forcast to join the Irish squad.

Really? I think he's a fantastic player but that he might lack that extra bit of class for the very top level.

Me neither, alothough Laulala and Roberts running at Mc Fadden and Darcy doesnt fill me with much confidence.

Golden wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

red_stag wrote:Who is ahead in the pecking order - Simon Zebo or David Kearney.

I obviously like both and am impressed by both. I see Zebo as an out and out wing with some serious potential in the try scoring department.

...I see D. Kearney as something very special brewing quietly. I think he's more robust and game savvy than perhaps Zebo is yet. But I think although people talk about Madigan as the future waiting to happen to Ireland, I think Dave Kearney is closer to that future and, in my humble opinion, will be more central to that Ireland than perhaps any young player either now part of or being forcast to join the Irish squad.

Really? I think he's a fantastic player but that he might lack that extra bit of class for the very top level.

I'll stand by my convictions about him. Willing to be proved wrong but time will see.

Lest we forget.... many moons ago in the dark years when professional rugby was in its infancy, coaching Ireland was but a twinkle in Eddie O'Sullivan's eye, Conor Murray was still in nappies, and Declan Kidney had some hair, an Ireland team ran out against Italy at the Treviso stadium in early May, 1995.

80 minutes later, the Irish team trudged off the pitch after a deserved spanking 22-12 led by the superb Diego Dominguez. Alain Rolland, on the bench that afternoon, probably made up his mind to move into the middle of the pitch on that day.

Two years later, another bevy of Irish players headed out onto the more familiar turf of Lansdowne Road to seek retribution, led by the balding head of Keith Wood. The Irish XV featured a few future stars, coaches, managers, pundits and other alickadoos - Conor O'Shea, Mark McCall, Paul Burke, Jeremy Davidson, David Humphreys, Paul Wallace, Anthony Foley, and Nick Popplewell.

Deadly Diego struck again, and in a reverse of future score lines, Paul Burke nailed 8 penalties, whilst the Italians romped over the try line four times along with Diego's conversions and penalty kicks. The Irish trooped off the losers 29-37.

The diminutive Argentine-born maestro completed his hat-trick later that year in Bologna, racking up another bevy of kicks, and scoring one of three tries to leave the Italians deserved victors 37-22.

Dem were de days of Diego Magic Dominguez..... A class act.

Hmmm, if I'm being honest with myself I'd say;

I'd pick a front row of Court-Best-Ross (bench of Cronin and Healy)

Healy is off form and needs a kick up the backside. Court is deserving of a start in my personal view. Best edges Cronin and Ross is untouchable as there is no real option behind him.

I'd prefer a second row of Ryan-POC (bench Touhy or Mike McCarthy)

Ryan deserves a start and will man-handle the Italian pack. DOC needs a smack and to be honest Touhy would be a better bench option.

I want a backrow of Ferris-Heaslip-POM (bench for SOB)

Lets delude ourselves no more, SOB and Ferris can't take the two flanker positions, Ferris edges the competition on current form. POM gets a deserved start. Heaslip should be warned that there is only a toss of a coin between SOB and himself for the '8' jersey. The irfu to arrange for stringer to dress up as a leprechaun and kick SOB on the bench from kickoff to spark some life into the fella.

Half back pairing of Murray-ROG (bench for Sexton and Reddan)

Sexton has a knock and we are playing the Italians which means close encounter forwards battle and we need a 10 who will have us fight the trenches in the right part of the field. Murray for his defensive grit edges Reddan.

Centre pairing of McFadden-Earls

McFadden is ahead of Darcy now, and despite everyone being nominate to take the plunge at 13, Earls is the guy in there.

Back 3 of Kearney-Kearney-Trimble (bench for Bowe)

Bowe needs the biggest kick up the backside of the lot of them. Trimble deserves that side of the field (his preferred wing afterall), Rob is a definite fullback and the wolfhound game has Dave ahead of Zebo with either choice deserving a shout at starting.

Even with these changes, that entire squad needs a serious hairdryer treatment from somewhere and it is getting long overdue.

bandwagon -

Please educate me here. Firstly why can Ferris and SOB not be the flankers in your opinion? Also in what way is POM anymore of a 7 than SOB? He hasn't shown anything that suggests he is a 7. And why would you drop SOB when he had a very good game against Wales? I feel those crying for a new 7, and especially those expecting it from POM, are the ones deluding themselves and are going to be in for a massive let down. Our back-row isn't the problem.

Also the fact is McFadden isn't ahead of D'Arcy. How can he be if he isn't ahead of him for Leinster?

roddersm wrote:

gowales wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We can't forget BOD guys. When he comes back, I hope he goes into 12 (where our options aren't as good) and helps bring in his replacement at 13. Things will look better at that point I feel.

I think O'Driscoll 12 and Cave 13 could work well

Far too slow, that would blow Kidney and the IRFU's collective minds.

Fixed that for you.

SecretFly wrote:

red_stag wrote:Who is ahead in the pecking order - Simon Zebo or David Kearney.

I obviously like both and am impressed by both. I see Zebo as an out and out wing with some serious potential in the try scoring department.

I seem to recall Zebo playing a few times in the centre for Cork Con last year (and Peter O'Mahoney played on the wing!)

roddersm wrote:I can't see anyone who started last weekend starting this.

D'arcy will be at 12 with Earls at 13, no doubt about it.

Kidney doesn't really do unpredictable.....and even when he does, it's fairly predictable...

Hello, dropping Axel out of the 23 for the Heineken Cup Final in '08. Dropping Sean Payne for Hurley. Dropping Stringer for Tomas O'Leary.

No one saw any of those coming.

Kidney's selection hasn't been the issue - it's his tactics that are killing the team.

If Ireland lose to Italy, Kidney will struggle to stay in charge. That is an incredible position for a coach who won the GS, but is a measure of how far the status of the team has fallen playing yesterday's game.

Answer this honestly sin - do you think Kidney is a good coach for Ireland? Do you think he is bringing out the best in these players, and that they are reaching their potential/the quality they show for their provinces?

I see Paddy Jackson has been added to the senior squad. Only an addition obviously but good to see he has received some recognition.

Kick up the pants to Ulster ? i.e. about time you gave him some game time instead of Humphreys

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:I can't see anyone who started last weekend starting this.

D'arcy will be at 12 with Earls at 13, no doubt about it.

Kidney doesn't really do unpredictable.....and even when he does, it's fairly predictable...

Hello, dropping Axel out of the 23 for the Heineken Cup Final in '08. Dropping Sean Payne for Hurley. Dropping Stringer for Tomas O'Leary.

No one saw any of those coming.

Wow I stand corrected...the man is clearly a maverick genius! ....

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Answer this honestly sin - do you think Kidney is a good coach for Ireland? Do you think he is bringing out the best in these players, and that they are reaching their potential/the quality they show for their provinces?

I think a lot of the Irish players are a) a bit hyped too much or b) not on their top form. Nothing he can do about the a) part. As regards the b) part - perhaps he can get them back to a bit of form. The one I think who haven't been playing well (at least not as well as they were last season for their clubs) are Healy (fine at the word cup, a bit of a dip now), Ross, O'Brien, Sexton, D'Arcy & Bowe and of course missing Brian O'Driscoll is a major issue (which affects the way the backrow play as well as he is an extra flanker). Tomas O'Leary's defensive capabilities are also missed - its no coincidence that Ireland have started leaking trys since he hasn't been around.

While I'm at it, anyone suggesting that Bowe would be better at 13 than anyone else are talking through their hats for the simple reason he is off-form and so not a good time to be moving position. Secondly, his defence is not up to it on the wing, let alone as a centre.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:I can't see anyone who started last weekend starting this.

D'arcy will be at 12 with Earls at 13, no doubt about it.

Kidney doesn't really do unpredictable.....and even when he does, it's fairly predictable...

Hello, dropping Axel out of the 23 for the Heineken Cup Final in '08. Dropping Sean Payne for Hurley. Dropping Stringer for Tomas O'Leary.

No one saw any of those coming.

Wow I stand corrected...the man is clearly a maverick genius! ....

Yea, cliched nonsense should be banned on this site

geoff998rugby wrote:I see Paddy Jackson has been added to the senior squad. Only an addition obviously but good to see he has received some recognition.

Kick up the pants to Ulster ? i.e. about time you gave him some game time instead of Humphreys

I'd see it as more of a confidence booster to Paddy Jackson - he looks a bit shaky for the U20s at the moment.

As discussed elsewhere that is a matter of opinion - place kicking aside

geoff998rugby wrote:As discussed elsewhere that is a matter of opinion - place kicking aside

Well, a couple of sessions with a kicking coach (Mark Taunton/ROG) might help sort that out.