QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October

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AUSTRALIA v SCOTLAND

18 October 2015
16:00 BST (UTC+01)
Twickenham, London

Live on telly

Ref: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
ARs: Glen Jackson (New Zealand) and Pascal Gauzere (France)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

A. Head to Head

28 Played 28
19 Won 9
0 Drawn 0
9 Lost 19
671 Points 330

B. Recent Form

23 November 2013
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
15 – 21 to Australia

5 June 2012
Hunter Stadium, Newcastle
6 – 9 to Scotland

21 November 2009
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 8 to Scotland

25 November 2006
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
15 – 44 to Australia

20 November 2004
Hampden Park, Glasgow
17 – 31 to Australia

C. TEAMS:
AUSTRALIA

15 Kurtley Beale; 14 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Matt Giteau, 11 Drew Mitchell; 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Will Genia;

1 Scott Sio, 2Stephen Moore, 3 Sekope Kepu, 4 Kane Douglas, 5 Rob Simmons, 6 Scott Fardy, 7 Michael Hooper, 8 Ben McCalman.

Substitutes: 16 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 17 James Slipper, 18 Greg Holmes, 19 Dean Mumm, 20 Sean McMahon, 21 Nick Phipps, 22 Matt Toomua, 23 Quade Cooper.

SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg; 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Mark Bennett, 12 Peter Horne 11 Tommy Seymour; 10 Finn Russell,  9 Greig Laidlaw;

1 Alasdair Dickinson, 2 Ross Ford, 3 Willem Nel, 4 Jonny Gray, 5 Richie Gray, 6 Blair Cowan, 7 John Hardie, 8 David Denton. 


Substitutes: 
16 Fraser Brown, 17 Gordon Reid, 18 Jon Welsh, 19 Tim Swinson, 20 Josh Strauss, 21 Henry Pyrgos, 22 Richie Vernon, 23 Sean Lamont.

The Lego/Vinemeister has set up a victim support group thread here:
https://www.606v2.com/t60963-the-scottish-assistance-soul-searching-thread

Ohhh so close. I was hanging out with a group of Aussie mates for the game and as usual confused everyone when I started cheering on Scotland. Brilliant game!

Nice to see Drew Mitchell score two tries and Moore + Giteau get their 100th caps. I met Drew Mitchell in 2009 at the balmoral hotel in Edinburgh, really good bloke.

As for Scotland, gotta say that Cowan, Hardie, Denton backrow was pretty decent vs Aus. I'd say stick with those three and Strauss. Room for Watson soon as well hopefully, he had a stormer vs Ulster on Friday night.

Looking forward to 6 Nations!

Be interesting to see what Cotter makes of the wider squad going forward in to the 6Ns, probably be a few changes as some such as Weir, Stroker and Wilson haven't advanced their cause during the WC. Somebody suggested on these boards that Ford may well retire from internationals but surely that won't be the case on 95 caps when he's still the first choice hooker.
For me the pick of the squad has been Nel, think he's had a fantastic tournament and it's been a long time since Scotland have been so secure at tighthead.

Ford is only 31 - he's got a few years ahead of him yet. And TBH if he keeps himself in good shape he might even make the next world cup!

I'm going to create a 'Scotland world cup post mortem and 6N lookahead' thread this morning so we can concentrate our thoughts on one place.

What a game!! Absolutely gutted, especially the way it happened so late!!

Loads to be happy about with that match! Also loads to be disappointed in!!

The back row were great, infact I thought the forwards in general were fantastic! Laidlaw played brilliantly too!

Finn Russell...oh dear! I think we are always going to have to deal with no 10's that like to play with our hearts!!

On the reffing... the final call was an impossible one, I agree it should really have gone to the tmo but it's an impossible situation... The yellow card and the shoulder charge being missed annoy me a lot! However I thought the reffing was fine really!!

We really need to work on our line outs and maul defense...almost every maul we gave away a penalty or a try!!!

Overall it was a brave one, and I am glad we beat Australia in areas they expected to dominate us!!

Really good to see we have a coach who will adjust the starting line up based on our opponents too!! Roll on the Six Nations!

AirHOrse wrote:What a game!! Absolutely gutted, especially the way it happened so late!!

Loads to be happy about with that match! Also loads to be disappointed in!!

The back row were great, infact I thought the forwards in general were fantastic! Laidlaw played brilliantly too!

Finn Russell...oh dear! I think we are always going to have to deal with no 10's that like to play with our hearts!!

On the reffing... the final call was an impossible one, I agree it should really have gone to the tmo but it's an impossible situation... The yellow card and the shoulder charge being missed annoy me a lot! However I thought the reffing was fine really!!

We really need to work on our line outs and maul defense...almost every maul we gave away a penalty or a try!!!

Overall it was a brave one, and I am glad we beat Australia in areas they expected to dominate us!!

Really good to see we have a coach who will adjust the starting line up based on our opponents too!! Roll on the Six Nations!

Are you any relation to tigertattie? You both love an exclamation mark!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

AirHOrse wrote:What a game!! Absolutely gutted, especially the way it happened so late!!

Loads to be happy about with that match! Also loads to be disappointed in!!

The back row were great, infact I thought the forwards in general were fantastic! Laidlaw played brilliantly too!

Finn Russell...oh dear! I think we are always going to have to deal with no 10's that like to play with our hearts!!

On the reffing... the final call was an impossible one, I agree it should really have gone to the tmo but it's an impossible situation... The yellow card and the shoulder charge being missed annoy me a lot! However I thought the reffing was fine really!!

We really need to work on our line outs and maul defense...almost every maul we gave away a penalty or a try!!!

Overall it was a brave one, and I am glad we beat Australia in areas they expected to dominate us!!

Really good to see we have a coach who will adjust the starting line up based on our opponents too!! Roll on the Six Nations!

Are you any relation to tigertattie? You both love an exclamation mark!

What can I say, it was an exciting match!!!

InjuredYetAgain wrote:What? How old is Roddy Grant? I thought he was early 30s and therefore too young for retiring (unless he is held together with sticky tape between games)

Not even 30 yet, only 29. Think he is planning on moving back to Botswana and working on the family business.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gonna leave this one here too.

https://vine.co/v/e9nv1AZXItI

We got shafted yesterday guys.

One question I would ask ^ regarding Hogg getting hit late with a shoulder charge, do we think there is an element of the boy who cried wolf here?

His dive against RSA was embarrassing. Do we think officials might just have thought he is at it again?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gonna leave this one here too.

https://vine.co/v/e9nv1AZXItI

We got shafted yesterday guys.

One question I would ask ^ regarding Hogg getting hit late with a shoulder charge, do we think there is an element of the boy who cried wolf here?

His dive against RSA was embarrassing. Do we think officials might just have thought he is at it again?

I don't think so in this case, Joubert wasn't even looking at it when it happened and neither was the linesman, Joubert had his back to it and was about 30 metres away, didn't even have a look when the crowd reacted.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gonna leave this one here too.

https://vine.co/v/e9nv1AZXItI

We got shafted yesterday guys.

One question I would ask ^ regarding Hogg getting hit late with a shoulder charge, do we think there is an element of the boy who cried wolf here?

His dive against RSA was embarrassing. Do we think officials might just have thought he is at it again?

Yeah probably.
That looks tame. Nothing in it at all. He barely touched him.

Majestic83 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gonna leave this one here too.

https://vine.co/v/e9nv1AZXItI

We got shafted yesterday guys.

One question I would ask ^ regarding Hogg getting hit late with a shoulder charge, do we think there is an element of the boy who cried wolf here?

His dive against RSA was embarrassing. Do we think officials might just have thought he is at it again?

I don't think so in this case, Joubert wasn't even looking at it when it happened and neither was the linesman, Joubert had his back to it and was about 30 metres away, didn't even have a look when the crowd reacted.

The TMO certainly would have seen the replay, and given he intervened on the Maitland call...

Watching the replay again. Australia blew plenty of chances with the line begging.
Maybe put that down to QF nerves against a fierce opposition though.

The Loaded Dog wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gonna leave this one here too.

https://vine.co/v/e9nv1AZXItI

We got shafted yesterday guys.

One question I would ask ^ regarding Hogg getting hit late with a shoulder charge, do we think there is an element of the boy who cried wolf here?

His dive against RSA was embarrassing. Do we think officials might just have thought he is at it again?

Yeah probably.
That looks tame. Nothing in it at all. He barely touched him.

I think this is clear cut - hogg is slightly off the ground so can not be jumping back - so the speed he goes back is all due to the charge - and look at the water that comes off his head - it was all very Rocky

Penatly - 100%

Are you watching in slow motion again?

That sort of collision happens quite often in every rugby match. What do you expect Mitchell to do... stop on a dime? It was so, so soft. Like shaking hands just about.

RDW_Scotland wrote:David Denton:

"I met my family and girlfriend afterwards and you could have filled a bathtub with all our tears.

... this has affected the rest of our lives and it’s affected a nation."

David Denton - born in Zimbabwe, raised in South Africa, couldn't have given any more for Scotland.

I thought Denton was awesome yesterday and I hope he doesn't beat himself up too much about that final lineout. He won't have called it and he didn't throw it. It would have been some take had he managed to pull that in. He was quiet against Samoa, but otherwise had a great tournament.

Riskysports wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gonna leave this one here too.

https://vine.co/v/e9nv1AZXItI

We got shafted yesterday guys.

One question I would ask ^ regarding Hogg getting hit late with a shoulder charge, do we think there is an element of the boy who cried wolf here?

His dive against RSA was embarrassing. Do we think officials might just have thought he is at it again?

Yeah probably.
That looks tame. Nothing in it at all. He barely touched him.

I think this is clear cut - hogg is slightly off the ground so can not be jumping back -  so the speed he goes back is all due to the charge -  and look at the water that comes off his head - it was all very Rocky

Penatly  - 100%

Also looks (though not easy to tell on the narrow shot) that Mitchell has actually changed direction to make sure he runs straight into Hogg? It's certainly late, with the shoulder, and as Risky says hits him with enough force to knock him back a few paces. For me it's a clear penalty, and very possibly yellow. Probably more angry with the TMO than Joubert on this one - so quick to point out the Maitland "deliberate" knock on, but on this one keeps completely schtumm. Having said that, could Laidlaw not have been more in the ref's ear, urging him to have a look?

Re Joubert, spoke to my brother yesterday, who's a qualified ref (albeit an Aus fan...). He only saw the first 50 minutes or so (had a flight to catch), but says he was getting the feeling Joubert really wasn't enjoying the game at all and that he looked like he really didn't want to be there. Says he thinks Barnes has been the best ref so far, and hopes he gets the final.

Absolutely gutted for Scotland - this was more painful than the Ireland loss!

Terrible call by Joubert to give the penalty for offside but why the feic did you risk the throw to the back of the lineout?!

On paper this looked the most one sided of the QFs but well done Scotland on fronting up and coming closest of the NH sides to the last four.

TJ wrote:No risky - on the deliberate knock on there wa potentially a try nscoring opportunity so TMO use correct.  On the final call there was not - so no TMO - the laws governing this have been stated several times on this thread.  

You need to understand the laws.  Joubert applied the laws correctly to what he saw.  End of it.  did it brush Phipps fingers - maybe maybe not.  It is not clear and Phipps intent to touch the ball makes no difference

Are you on commission or something to try and justify decisions in this tournament??

For what it's worth, I actually have some sympathy for Joubert on the final penalty decision and agreed with him in real time. It's only after seeing the 100 or so slow motion replays that I think he probably got it wrong. I've been pleading all tournament for refs not to simply refer everything to the TMO and back their judgement when they think they've seen something clearly, and Joubert did just that. Like Laidlaw, I also thought the Maitland decision was fair enough as well. He stuck one hand out and blocked the ball. Calling it "deliberate" makes it sound harsh, but if you stick out one hand like that then it's difficult to envisage a different outcome.

The late hit on Hogg was probably a decision that did go against us, although his antics in previous games may well have come home to roost on that one.

What lost us the game was (a) another dreadful restart, and (b) a silly lineout call.

Yeah, its very easy to call it after 10 slow-motion replays Joubert didn't have access to in real-time; it looked for all the world like a clear-cut penalty the first time I saw it and the referee wouldn't have had any reason to disagree. A referee should never go to the TMO if he's sure in real time and he had no reason not to be.

I think that's a silly rule - 9 times out of 10 if a player gets his hand on the ball he's trying to catch it.

If the replays show the player doesn't have an open hand or the palms are facing down only then can you say it isn't a genuine attempt of an intercept.

It seems the officials determined that because Maitland had very little chance of gathering the ball then it is a deliberate knock on but to me that's rubbish - if he's a second earlier he liikey gathers the ball and on his way up the other end.

Officials need to have an appreciation for the game when they are making these calls.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

What lost us the game was (a) another dreadful restart, and (b) a silly lineout call.

Exactly. Both things we can learn from and improve to be serious challengers for the 6N this year.

Memories tend to soften at the edges, of course, and I have no doubt whatsoever that by the time the next 6 Nations rolls around all of our opponents will come into the games believing that they'll thrash us.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose and all that.

You're right GC. They'll believe that justifiably as well. In recent years we've been easy prey for England, Ireland and Wales - not really getting particularly close.

As positive as this WC has been, we still haven't beaten a team that I didn't think we would. We need to win two games as a minimum this coming 6 Nations before we can claim any sort of real progress.

George Carlin wrote:Perhaps Joubert was just dying for a slash?

Can't have been George. He'd already pi$$ed all over Scotland's hopes.

Here is the late hit on Hogg - yes it is in slow motion so generally looks worse but I think that should certainly have been a penalty, and it beggars belief that the TMO wouldn't have seen it

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos_h264high/9904B91B251267584636553928704_SW_WEBM_1445189938472b001af4fa2.mp4?versionId=on_f3KZiIWb79ASMf9HiTQbaQpeCT8iV

George Carlin wrote:Memories tend to soften at the edges, of course, and I have no doubt whatsoever that by the time the next 6 Nations rolls around all of our opponents will come into the games believing that they'll thrash us.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose and all that.

You think?

Maybe so. Not by me. I've seen Scotland shape itself into an increasingly mean beast with as much attitude as skill to back them up. But the story of the 6N will not depend on how the opposition perceives you but on what form the Scots take with them from this world cup into the 6Ns (the lesser contest is I think how I'll refer to it from here on in).
Scotland itself will decide what the opposition think of it. First game decides.

SecretFly wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Memories tend to soften at the edges, of course, and I have no doubt whatsoever that by the time the next 6 Nations rolls around all of our opponents will come into the games believing that they'll thrash us.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose and all that.

You think?

Maybe so.  Not by me.  I've seen Scotland shape itself into an increasingly mean beast with as much attitude as skill to back them up.  But the story of the 6N will not depend on how the opposition perceives you but on what form the Scots take with them from this world cup into the 6Ns (the lesser contest is I think how I'll refer to it from here on in).
Scotland itself will decide what the opposition think of it.  First game decides.

A tricky match to call. England at Murrayfield.

England itching to right the wrongs of a bad world cup and Scotland raging at their exit. I can't wait for that one

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

A tricky match to call. England at Murrayfield.

England itching to right the wrongs of a bad world cup and Scotland raging at their exit. I can't wait for that one

As part of the World Rugby exchange programme a certain Craig Joubert to referee it?

demosthenes wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

A tricky match to call. England at Murrayfield.

England itching to right the wrongs of a bad world cup and Scotland raging at their exit. I can't wait for that one

As part of the World Rugby exchange programme a certain Craig Joubert to referee it?

I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

[quote="RDW_Scotland"]

AirHOrse wrote:What a game!! Absolutely gutted, especially the way it happened so late!!

Are you any relation to tigertattie? You both love an exclamation mark!

Nothing wrong with the occasional exclamation mark!!!!

Ps. Been too incensed too comment much on here!!!!!!!!
Starting to calm down a bit now