QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October

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IRELAND v ARGENTINA

18 October 2015
KO: 13:00 BST (UTC+01)
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Ref: Jerome Garcès (France)
ARs: Romain Poite (France)and Chris Pollock (NZ)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

15 Played 15
10 Won 5
0 Drawn 0
5 Lost 15
331 Points 283

B. Recent Form

14 June 2014
Estadio Monumental José Fierro, Tucumán
17 – 23 to Ireland

7 June 2014
Estadio Centenario, Resistencia
17 – 29 to Ireland

24 November 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 24 to Ireland

28 November 2010
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
29 – 9 to Ireland

22 November 2008
Croke Park, Dublin
17 – 3 to Ireland

30 September 2007
Parc des Princes, Paris, France
30 – 15 to Argentina

2 June 2007
Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
16 – 0 to Argentina

C. TEAMS:

IRELAND


15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements;
16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)

ARGENTINA


15. Joaquin Tuculet
14. Santiago Cordero
13. Matías Moroni
12. Juan Martín Hernández
11. Juan Imhoff
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Martín Landajo
1. Marcos Ayerza
2. Agustín Creevy (c)
3. Ramiro Herrera
4. Guido Petti
5. Tomás Lavanini
6. Pablo Matera
7. Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
8. Leonardo Senatore

Replacements:
16. Julián Montoya
17. Lucas Noguera
18. Juan Pablo Orlandi
19. Matías Alemanno
20. Facundo Isa
21. Tomás Cubelli
22. Jerónimo De La Fuente
23. Lucas González Amorosino

This is the true test case coming up Nos.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/35936.php#.ViC1fX4rKUk

Training pics seem to indicate we will be using giant catapults against the Argies. Nothing about it in the the rules. Plus, we're Irish and we should get away with a one week ban.

In other news - Sexton has run 3.5 kilometres. Quite impressive, but has he actually kicked a ball?

Can't believe we would risk him - surely not. If he breaks down 5 minutes in, Maddog comes on, but who covers him?

Murray would be the cover.

If Sexton is fit he plays

Notch wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Apparently BOD was on off the ball last night making some complaints about the welsh match in 2011. Seems the attention to POC is getting to him and he seems to be taking advantage of the fact that DK would never sag anything. Plus Stephen Ferris seemed to make a few comments to negate the bull from BOD. Poor old Brian

Well, he said the shape of the attack and the coaching of the attack just wasn't good enough for that one. I defy you to watch that game back and disagree with him! Once the strategy of having Ferris and O'Brien run over people was thoroughly nullified by the Welsh back row, we were out of ideas.

You have to be a bit in denial about Kidney losing the plot and his reputation with it after 2009 to think that BOD is just saying that because O'Connell is being talked about right now! The tributes to BOD when he retired eclipsed anything any other player I can think of got when they finished up... No, he's saying it because it's true and it's no different at all to what everybody outside the camp said at the time.

And he is wrong there. The defence wasn't good enough and he was making excuses for Les Kiss. The midfield (mainly D'Arcy) was like a sieve. And a bit of credit should be given to the Welsh who were fantastic. FFS, Shane Williams held Sean O'Brien up on the try line.

BOD also as captain was poor. He should have taken the points early on - not a chance of him admitting that though!

As for the tributes being paid to POC - some of them could be seen as a criticism of BOD - i.e., lots saying how he is Ireland's greatest leader, best captain etc. etc. That must sting BOD.

Murray would be the cover.

Murray at 10 and Reddan at 9 ain't going to get us over the line though.

As for the tributes being paid to POC - some of them could be seen as a criticism of BOD - i.e., lots saying how he is Ireland's greatest leader, best captain etc. etc. That must sting BOD.

I read BOD's book and was surprised how insecure he came across in it.

A lot of the plaudits for POC seem to be for him as a person/friend/team-mate as well as a player.

Personally I think BOD is the best player Ireland ever produced in any position, and for a time would have been the best in the world.

rapidsnowman wrote:http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/35936.php#.ViC1fX4rKUk

Training pics seem to indicate we will be using giant catapults against the Argies. Nothing about it in the the rules. Plus, we're Irish and we should get away with a one week ban.

In other news - Sexton has run 3.5 kilometres. Quite impressive, but has he actually kicked a ball?

Can't believe we would risk him - surely not. If he breaks down 5 minutes in, Maddog comes on, but who covers him?

God, you eejit, snowman.  The link between the two is quite apparent to me

Sin é wrote:

As for the tributes being paid to POC - some of them could be seen as a criticism of BOD - i.e., lots saying how he is Ireland's greatest leader, best captain etc. etc. That must sting BOD.

Oh? New angle then? The International retirement of POC is a nice opportunity to put the knife in the back of dear old BOD

My Dad being bigger than your Dad, and all that jazz.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

As for the tributes being paid to POC - some of them could be seen as a criticism of BOD - i.e., lots saying how he is Ireland's greatest leader, best captain etc. etc. That must sting BOD.

Oh?  New angle then?  The International retirement of POC is a nice opportunity to put the knife in the back of dear old BOD

My Dad being bigger than your Dad, and all that jazz.

Actually no. BOD is Ireland's greatest player as far as I'm concerned.

Notch wrote:

You have to be a bit in denial about Kidney losing the plot and his reputation with it after 2009 to think that BOD is just saying that because O'Connell is being talked about right now! The tributes to BOD when he retired eclipsed anything any other player I can think of got when they finished up... No, he's saying it because it's true and it's no different at all to what everybody outside the camp said at the time.

... And give Kidney a break with what he had to deal with. This is what Bob Dwyer had to say about BOD back in 2007.

Dwyer: O'Driscoll flawed, smug and lacking modesty

Irish captain Brian O'Driscoll, according to Dwyer, is smug and lacks modesty. What is more, his strengths as a world-class rugby player are his flaws. And, if that isn't enough, he isn't a player who reacts well to coaching and coaches.

Dwyer, a guru for coaches the world over, was in charge of the Barbarians a couple of years back when O'Driscoll was selected as part of their squad. The Australian admits he was disappointed with what he encountered.

"I didn't get the impression he was the most coachable of players," said the Australian last week. "Why did I think that? There was a smugness about him, a lack of modesty, too. Even the great players have to be willing to learn, but Brian didn't seem too keen. I got the impression he thought he knew it all and didn't need to listen to a coach.

"When I went on tour years ago with Tim Horan and Jason Little, the Australian centres who were two of the best we've ever known in this country, they told me at the end of that trip that no one had ever told them things I had been telling them. That wasn't a position I suggested, it just came out.

"But I certainly didn't get that reaction from Brian. In my view, Brian O'Driscoll is a great player, but he could be an even greater player if he was prepared to listen and learn. Even the best players can benefit from that."

Dwyer acknowledges that Gordon D'Arcy is also a fine player, albeit not quite in the same class as O'Driscoll. But, revealingly, he says: "Unfortunately, D'Arcy has to live off the scraps O'Driscoll gives him."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/dwyer-odriscoll-flawed-smug-and-lacking-modesty-26303198.html

Sin é wrote: This is what Bob Dwyer had to say about BOD back in 2007.

Dwyer: O'Driscoll flawed, smug and lacking modesty

Irish captain Brian O'Driscoll, according to Dwyer, is smug and lacks modesty. What is more, his strengths as a world-class rugby player are his flaws. And, if that isn't enough, he isn't a player who reacts well to coaching and coaches.

Dwyer, a guru for coaches the world over, was in charge of the Barbarians a couple of years back when O'Driscoll was selected as part of their squad. The Australian admits he was disappointed with what he encountered.

"I didn't get the impression he was the most coachable of players," said the Australian last week. "Why did I think that? There was a smugness about him, a lack of modesty, too. Even the great players have to be willing to learn, but Brian didn't seem too keen. I got the impression he thought he knew it all and didn't need to listen to a coach.

"When I went on tour years ago with Tim Horan and Jason Little, the Australian centres who were two of the best we've ever known in this country, they told me at the end of that trip that no one had ever told them things I had been telling them. That wasn't a position I suggested, it just came out.

"But I certainly didn't get that reaction from Brian. In my view, Brian O'Driscoll is a great player, but he could be an even greater player if he was prepared to listen and learn. Even the best players can benefit from that."

[/b]

Yeah.  O'Driscoll wouldn't be a shrinking violet in terms of what he thought of himself.  And why would he be? - it's the uncoachable part of him that made him the player he was.  Don't let any coach tell you they coached his best bits into him.  No they coached around the best bits and hoped that the best bits would happen instinctively - and many times they did.

I think Dwyer has a certain pride level too and probably didn't like that O'Driscoll didn't come up to him and tell him nobody ever told him the things Dwyer had told him

But as far as O'Driscoll admitting that coaches added to his game and that he valued how he could take new things from them - I think there is ample evidence of him talking about Schmidt in that way.  Maybe even Cheika got some of that too.   Dwyer seems to have simply been sad that he didn't get praise for his own ego.  Two big egos meeting

Good luck gents.....see you in the semi!

Wouldn't look forward to it Tattie if yis shaft the auld Aussies out of Favourites spot

Good luck too - give'em hell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/11935735/Joe-Schmidt-is-the-Brian-Clough-of-rugby-and-can-lead-Ireland-to-World-Cup-semi-finals.html

Enjoyed this

Here's the team:

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements
16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)

oops, that was a bit late.

Well, Johnny must be fit.

We will really miss POM and SOB, but I like the look of the back row.

Bet you Earls scores a humdinger of a try taking a bad pass around his ankles and sprinting 60 meters to score!

Graham Henry think Argentina are.................... yep, you guessed it - coming in under the radar.

Never has a team remained so invisible yet so often namechecked over the weeks.

This must be the least controversial, debatable and uncommentable upon team pick ever.

Quarter final of world cup here - does no one have anything to say?

Everyone is scared schittless, snowman.

Pressure on the men in Green here to go further than they ever have done before in a RWC - Just don't mention the choke tackle!!! Oops I just did -

rapidsnowman wrote:This must be the least controversial, debatable and uncommentable upon team pick ever.

Quarter final of world cup here - does no one have anything to say?

Hopefully sexton doesn't break.

Hopefully Murphy has the game of his life.

Hopefully Earls wears his new gloves:


Special Gripe Gloves

Why has Cronin been demoted from the bench is the only bit of controversy I can attempt.

That is plain wrong by Joe!!!! Shows a weakness in him when confronted by strong players who don't always do his bidding as he says. Cronin had every right to say what he said last week and this is an outrage that the coach would be so vindictive to throw him off the bench.

rapidsnowman wrote:

Personally I think BOD is the best player Ireland ever produced in any position, and for a time would have been the best in the world.

I was always a big fan of Mike Gibson and felt he was Irelands greatest ever player. BOD and POC are certainly up there in my opinion.

Difficult choice Billy and pretty arbitry really - Gibson was a gem - I saw him in 1973 as a 10 year old, my first live game. Majestic talent so fluid I thought he was welsh in the 70's - he could throw a great dummy and had great balance

He was certainly brilliant Guru, my dad still claims he is the best Ireland ever produced.

Anyways, I can actually see Ireland really turning Argentina over on Sunday.

Can see Wales keeping in touching distance for a while but the Saffers will just be too strong for them in the end running away with it in the last 20.

Scotland, well I cant see anything but Aus crunching them.

The AB's will simply walk all over France.

eirebilly wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:

Personally I think BOD is the best player Ireland ever produced in any position, and for a time would have been the best in the world.

I was always a big fan of Mike Gibson and felt he was Irelands greatest ever player. BOD and POC are certainly up there in my opinion.

They played different sports imo,the game of today is so different in terms of law changes and professionalism there isn't any point comparing them.

?

Billy are you on Ruby's time?

Oh it's correct now

Early preparations for the weekend (involving large amounts of alcohol) have affected my cognitive skills Fly

Billy is always on Ruby's time Fly

I truly hope that Sexton is fully fit as I do believe Ireland would need him more in the Semi Final (If Ireland win) than they will in the 1/4 final. I hope this is not too big a risk to take and Madigan did an exceptional job against France when he came on so I would have full confidence in him playing against Argentina.

With the loss of SOB and POM Strauss adds a lot to the breakdown in comparison to Cronin.

Also with the injuries and knocks from last week, and the weakened bench we will probably look to control the tempo a bit more. Strauss is better from touch and in the scrum so if we are playing for territory and penalties I think hes a good choice. Plus he has a very underrated offloading game (although we haven't seen much of it for the last couple of years).

If were chasing the game Cronin is your man but Strauss wont let us down.

eirebilly wrote:

Anyways, I can actually see Ireland really turning Argentina over on Sunday.

Don't tune into the latest Second Captain's podcast if you want to stay upbeat! They leave you feeling we only have a puncher's chance in this game.

Sexton made it back for selection.

Don't worry about those cognitive skills Billy, your problem will be temporary and functional as opposed to organic. Any further deterioration just let me know. And be careful of Korsakoffs Syndrome as just look what its done to Fly's cognitive capacity, he's completely shot. Good luck on the weekend

Poor old Fly, I will have Korsakoffs syndrome buy Monday

eirebilly wrote:I truly hope that Sexton is fully fit as I do believe Ireland would need him more in the Semi Final (If Ireland win) than they will in the 1/4 final. I hope this is not too big a risk to take and Madigan did an exceptional job against France when he came on so I would have full confidence in him playing against Argentina.

It's probably an educated gamble based on the principle that it won't matter who you hold back for the next game if you don't get to the next game. Getting to next game is now the priority. All main hands on deck and see how the cookie crumbles.

It may be a gamble Fly but I actually thought Ireland played much better when Madigan replaced Sexton against France hence my belief that he would be fine against Argentina so unnecessary risk should be taken.

eirebilly wrote:It may be a gamble Fly but I actually thought Ireland played much better when Madigan replaced Sexton against France hence my belief that he would be fine against Argentina so unnecessary risk should be taken.

I was genuinely surprised by Madigan's performance when he came on, he seemed to take options I haven't seen him take for Ireland before - he was a definite plus in that performance, fair play. His performance for me was very noticeable and he looked strong in the contact area. Argentina are far more organised than France and this will be a different type of challenge. Looking forward to this game

eirebilly wrote:It may be a gamble Fly but I actually thought Ireland played much better when Madigan replaced Sexton against France hence my belief that he would be fine against Argentina so unnecessary risk should be taken.

I get what you're saying but again... that was a blood hot game at the time and everyone seemed to be in the emotional zone. Madigan came on and floated on the mood - aiding it too but also floating on it. They all did.

We have to work out now was that intensity planned or did it just happen. I just think it might be a much more difficult mood to start from scratch again on. Sexton would possibly immerse us into it in a more controlled way.

We don't want this game flying away from us in the first 15 minutes because we went a little ape-schidt on the tempo

Argentina don't have the Tempo they used to have for years which greatly helped their game plan

Who controls the tempo best will be the story of the game I think. Ireland will want their moments. But it seems Argentina is a greedy team and want their moments all the time. We'll see which side get their way.

ConTEMPOmi - Get with it Fly I'm worrying about your cognitive capacity and as for my bipolar - I'm fecked.

Oh Jesus Ruby, my capacity generator is in no mood for Cryptic fecking crosswords!!!!

Looking forward to seeing mad dancing Diego in the crowd.

SecretFly wrote:Who controls the tempo best will be the story of the game I think.  Ireland will want their moments.  But it seems Argentina is a greedy team and want their moments all the time.  We'll see which side get their way.

This, this is a valid point. Ireland really need to get into the game early and control the Argentinians, just like they did against the French. Must admit to getting nervous...

As a neutral, I'm torn on this one, in terms of who I want to win. I've always had a soft spot for the Pumas, because they've had to fight so hard to get a seat at the top table, and now they're playing some great rugby; on the other hand, I want to see a Six Nations side get to the semis and this might be the North's best chance. It's also a showdown between the two best sets of supporters in the tournament.

I'll be happy - and also sad - whoever wins.

Sexton is out...Madigan in, Jackson on the bench. Boss called up....

Four of our frontline players out....big ask but doable.

I really thought that it was too early for Sexton and maybe too big a risk for tomorrows game.

Still, if Madigan plays as well as he did last weekend, Ireland are still golden.

So it turns out rodders was right; the whole idea that Sexton was going to play was a ruse. Mainly, I suspect, to take the pressure off Madigan and give Argentina less time to do analysis on him.

Is it strange that the first thing I thought when I heard Sexton is out, Madigan starting and Paddy on the bench with Boss called up is, "they're not calling up that fec king eejit"

This will be much different for Madigan as I can't imagine our pack will be dominating the match as much as last week, I have faith he can prove everyone wrong though and prove himself finally as an OH and not just a great impact sub.