QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October

by **George Carlin** Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:23 am

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND v ARGENTINA

18 October 2015
KO: 13:00 BST (UTC+01)
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Ref: Jerome Garcès (France)
ARs: Romain Poite (France)and Chris Pollock (NZ)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

15 Played 15
10 Won 5
0 Drawn 0
5 Lost 15
331 Points 283

B. Recent Form

14 June 2014
Estadio Monumental José Fierro, Tucumán
17 – 23 to Ireland

7 June 2014
Estadio Centenario, Resistencia
17 – 29 to Ireland

24 November 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 24 to Ireland

28 November 2010
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
29 – 9 to Ireland

22 November 2008
Croke Park, Dublin
17 – 3 to Ireland

30 September 2007
Parc des Princes, Paris, France
30 – 15 to Argentina

2 June 2007
Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
16 – 0 to Argentina

C. TEAMS:

IRELAND
QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October - Page 19 Caitri10

QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October - Page 19 Caitri10

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements;
16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)

ARGENTINA
QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October - Page 19 Mia-ma11

QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October - Page 19 Mia-ma11

15. Joaquin Tuculet
14. Santiago Cordero
13. Matías Moroni
12. Juan Martín Hernández
11. Juan Imhoff
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Martín Landajo
1. Marcos Ayerza
2. Agustín Creevy (c)
3. Ramiro Herrera
4. Guido Petti
5. Tomás Lavanini
6. Pablo Matera
7. Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
8. Leonardo Senatore

Replacements:
16. Julián Montoya
17. Lucas Noguera
18. Juan Pablo Orlandi
19. Matías Alemanno
20. Facundo Isa
21. Tomás Cubelli
22. Jerónimo De La Fuente
23. Lucas González Amorosino

by Sin é Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:I think Schmidt would suit England actually - strong disciplinarian and takes no messing. He has the volume and kind of player there to suit his playing philosophy.

Sin - are you Foley's agent?

Foley is just fine where he is for another few years. I'd like to see someone like Pat Lam in charge.

Pat Lam. You're judging him on Connacht? Be careful, we all judged Joe on Leinster.

I'm not judging him on Connacht. I'm judging him on his rugby philosophy and how he has brought through some of the younger players and how they have responded to him.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:32 pm

fa0019 wrote:probably Schmidt's men just looking to reaffirm his position as a coach in demand after losing to Argentina... albeit under some understandable circumstances i.e. top 4 players from one game to next suddenly out injured.

The original French article came before the Argentine game if I can recall.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:34 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:I think Schmidt would suit England actually - strong disciplinarian and takes no messing. He has the volume and kind of player there to suit his playing philosophy.

Sin - are you Foley's agent?

Foley is just fine where he is for another few years. I'd like to see someone like Pat Lam in charge.

Pat Lam. You're judging him on Connacht? Be careful, we all judged Joe on Leinster.

I'm not judging him on Connacht. I'm judging him on his rugby philosophy and how he has brought through some of the younger players and how they have responded to him.

Like Joe then, who had a rotation policy for younger players that scantly showed the seams between them and the A grade team. Try again Sin.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:35 pm

Notch wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Golden wrote:"Reports coming in that the RFU have offered the IRFU £1.5m to release Joe Schmidt from the last two years of his contract."

Hands off!!!

Just Midi Olimpique stirring the pot again.

The French are still sore that we beat them.

Can you imagine if we lost Schmidt on top of that quarter-final defeat? Disaster doesn't cover it.

Not just that, but losing him to the English. The pain would be unbearable. I believe that's why Midi Olimpique are stirring it. Sore losers.

by Sin é Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:I think Schmidt would suit England actually - strong disciplinarian and takes no messing. He has the volume and kind of player there to suit his playing philosophy.

Sin - are you Foley's agent?

Foley is just fine where he is for another few years. I'd like to see someone like Pat Lam in charge.

Pat Lam. You're judging him on Connacht? Be careful, we all judged Joe on Leinster.

I'm not judging him on Connacht. I'm judging him on his rugby philosophy and how he has brought through some of the younger players and how they have responded to him.

Like Joe then, who had a rotation policy for younger players that scantly showed the seams between them and the A grade team. Try again Sin.

Nothing to do with rotation. Joe could get good stuff out of average players. But he is unable to get the best out of players like Zebo, Gilroy and Madigan.

Rob Penney is an excellent coach also with a great philosophy. He inspires confidence in his playes.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:40 pm

eirebilly wrote:Sin é is not wrong here, I actually think that Schmidt's style of coaching would benefit England possibly better than it has Ireland.

On the counter, Lancaster would probably suit Ireland's style...

What, a school teacher approach for a school teacher approach? The only difference being that one is an excellent teacher. The other not so good.

Yeah, I can see how Ireland would be better off under SL Erm

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:43 pm

Schmidt is too fond of his Leinster boys.

Schmidt out!

by RubyGuby Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:46 pm

A "Lancaster Bomber" over a "Messer-Schmidt"

tough call in all honesty

thumbsup

by eirebilly Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:47 pm

I would not like to lose Schmidt as a coach, think he is very good and still actually quite inexperienced at International level. I am hoping that he learns a lot from this RWC exit and puts some new plans in place.

As I said before, I would like to see him select on form as opposed to the players he knows (maybe that will change the longer he is away from Leinster).
I would like to see him encourage and work more with the younger talent and not coach the skill sets out of them.

POM should be made captain and a pack should be built around Henderson as I believe that he will be a real quality player for Ireland in the future.

I would like see him force the provinces into player development ie, start forming partnerships. Maybe Madigan and Marmion or JJ and Marmion. Get these player's (centre pairings as well) playing for the same province and building an unbeatable understanding. Think D'Arcy/BOD and Stringer ROG.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:50 pm

Sin é wrote:

Nothing to do with rotation. Joe could get good stuff out of average players. But he is unable to get the best out of players like Zebo, Gilroy and Madigan.

Rob Penney is an excellent coach also with a great philosophy. He inspires confidence in his playes.

Why do you keep bringing up Penney? Because he said nice things about Zebo? When Penney was around, he wasn't wanted at Munster. Period. Don't try and colour it that he wanted to move on. He was pushed on. He wasn't stoic enough for Munster philosophy...he tried to make forwards work harder by putting them on the wing. Not liked by Munster. Too many fancy ideas and Forwards shouldn't be where the fluff boy backs are. It ain't manly.

So your own tribe banishes Penney for trying to bring out creativity in his forwards and you now use him to say he understood players like Zebo. Maybe Munster should have listened to Zebo as he pleaded for Penney to stay? Wink

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:52 pm

RubyGuby wrote:A "Lancaster Bomber" over a "Messer-Schmidt"

tough call in all honesty

But of course we know which one usually gets it in the arse in the old war movies.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:53 pm

RubyGuby wrote:A "Lancaster Bomber" over a "Messer-Schmidt"

tough call in all honesty

A Lancaster Bomber that can't get off the ground isn't much use really.

Would prefer a Gatland Gun.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:03 pm

SecretFly wrote:
fa0019 wrote:probably Schmidt's men just looking to reaffirm his position as a coach in demand after losing to Argentina... albeit under some understandable circumstances i.e. top 4 players from one game to next suddenly out injured.

The original French article came before the Argentine game if I can recall.

It's a new article, apparently. According to the midi, the IRFU has been offered €1.5m to release Schmidt since the loss to Argentina. The RFU would have been amazingly quick with that offer, and midi would be amazingly well informed.

It's nonsense.

by Sin é Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Nothing to do with rotation. Joe could get good stuff out of average players. But he is unable to get the best out of players like Zebo, Gilroy and Madigan.

Rob Penney is an excellent coach also with a great philosophy. He inspires confidence in his playes.

Why do you keep bringing up Penney? Because he said nice things about Zebo? When Penney was around, he wasn't wanted at Munster. Period. And you know this how? Penney left because he was offered a 3 year contract in Japan that would set him up financially for life. Period.

Don't try and colour it that he wanted to move on. He was pushed on. He wasn't stoic enough for Munster philosophy...he tried to make forwards work harder by putting them on the wing. Not liked by Munster. Too many fancy ideas and Forwards shouldn't be where the fluff boy backs are. It ain't manly.
For someone who you claim was pushed, you'd think he wouldn't have any time for Munster/Ireland now (but takes the trouble to put on Munster gear and send best wishes when Munster were playing a big game). How about Nucifora & Schmidt not wanting him around because he was critical of how they were handling Zebo?

As for this cliched rubbish about 10man Munster rugby - just look at the backs Foley has recruited - Saili, Bleyendaal or Conway are no boshers.

This reminds me about some of the Poopie that was spoken about Laurie Fisher when he was at Munster (i.e., comments about Foley not talking to him etc. - which of course was all cowpat as Laurie came back and visited Munster every year when coaching the Brumbies with POC saying that Laurie was the best coach he has ever had for the breakdown and of course David Humphreys bringing him into Gloucester ). Similiar comments about Tony McGahan (who ROG claimed was his best coach) were all cowpat.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:11 pm

Penney left because his time was up and Munster wanted to move on a different setting....and return to their more traditional ways. Ways incidently that always had a cutting trust of creativity, I'd never claim differently. But not Penney's way.

The talk about forwards on wings and how silly it was didn't come from my lips, it was coming from everywhere...many of the voices in Munster itself.

Don't change history.

by Sin é Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:Penney left because his time was up and Munster wanted to move on a different setting....and return to their more traditional ways. Ways incidently that always had a cutting trust of creativity, I'd never claim differently. But not Penney's way.

The talk about forwards on wings and how silly it was didn't come from my lips, it was coming from everywhere...many of the voices in Munster itself.

Don't change history.

Nope. He was intending to sign on for another year. Why would Munster offer him an extension if they wanted him gone. Why is Penney saying on twitter that he would like to come back if he got the opportunity.

Japan offered him a 3 year contract at double what Munster could pay him. He is now an assistant coach with Japanese underage teams.

Some of the criticism was correct though - and the criticism was not about having 2nd rows on the wings. It was about going from side to side without actually breaking the gainline and generally going backwards. That was to do with lack of personel to be able to do that as most of the Munster players were all fairly young and needed to develop physically.

by **rodders** Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:28 pm

If there had of been a week break between the groups and KO stages, we'd have had Sexton back, Earls would have been fresh, we'd have been better prepared and the game would have been much closer.

but there wasn't and there wasn't.

by **rodders** Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:35 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:probably Schmidt's men just looking to reaffirm his position as a coach in demand after losing to Argentina... albeit under some understandable circumstances i.e. top 4 players from one game to next suddenly out injured.

Lots of injuries didn't save Declan Kidney's international coaching career - remember v. Italy Peter O'Mahony on the wing! (having lost Earls & Fitzgerald) and no POC.

Let's put Declan the Saviour back in then. The coach that didn't actually coach but seems to be compared to a coach that very much does.

Declan had a philosophy of heads up rugby. Schmidt maybe a good coach, but I don't like his playing philosophy. I don't like how he tried to kill off any little bit of flair in the players. Schmidt had decided well before the world cup that Zebo was only ever going to get to it as a tackle bag holder. Gilroy was never going to get a look in. Earls wouldn't have either except Payne got injured.

He is unable to coach players with any bit of flair.

What a load of rubbish - the only creativity we had was a cross field kick to Bowe. He put a guy who never played the game and a defense specialist (Kiss) in charge of the attacks because we had no back moves. If that's heads up rugby then you are better off keeping your head down.

Schmidt took that mess of a set up and made us the top team in European rugby.

Zebo went to cover full back, which is what he did. Gilroy needs to improve his defense as shown on Friday. Earls played every game and has played the best rugby of his Ireland career over the past month.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:51 pm

rodders wrote:If there had of been a week break between the groups and KO stages, we'd have had Sexton back, Earls would have been fresh, we'd have been better prepared and the game would have been much closer.

but there wasn't and there wasn't.

Exactly.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:01 pm

Munchkin wrote:
rodders wrote:If there had of been a week break between the groups and KO stages, we'd have had Sexton back, Earls would have been fresh, we'd have been better prepared and the game would have been much closer.

but there wasn't and there wasn't.

Exactly.

Exactly

But we all know you don't get a break. Certainly the SH boys do.

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:02 pm

RubyGuby wrote:A "Lancaster Bomber" over a "Messer-Schmidt"

tough call in all honesty

Flattered to deceive but ultimately crashed and burned...

by Sin é Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:02 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:probably Schmidt's men just looking to reaffirm his position as a coach in demand after losing to Argentina... albeit under some understandable circumstances i.e. top 4 players from one game to next suddenly out injured.

Lots of injuries didn't save Declan Kidney's international coaching career - remember v. Italy Peter O'Mahony on the wing! (having lost Earls & Fitzgerald) and no POC.

Let's put Declan the Saviour back in then. The coach that didn't actually coach but seems to be compared to a coach that very much does.

Declan had a philosophy of heads up rugby. Schmidt maybe a good coach, but I don't like his playing philosophy. I don't like how he tried to kill off any little bit of flair in the players. Schmidt had decided well before the world cup that Zebo was only ever going to get to it as a tackle bag holder. Gilroy was never going to get a look in. Earls wouldn't have either except Payne got injured.

He is unable to coach players with any bit of flair.

What a load of rubbish - the only creativity we had was a cross field kick to Bowe. He put a guy who never played the game and a defense specialist (Kiss) in charge of the attacks because we had no back moves. If that's heads up rugby then you are better off keeping your head down.

Schmidt took that mess of a set up and made us the top team in European rugby.

Zebo went to cover full back, which is what he did. Gilroy needs to improve his defense as shown on Friday. Earls played every game and has played the best rugby of his Ireland career over the past month.

Gaffney was the backs coach for the last world cup - you know, the guy who brought the Sexton loop to Ireland about 15 years ago and no one noticed until recently because it has been used so much by Schmidt and Leinster.

Ireland won a Grand Slam in 2009 which suggests that Deccie made Ireland the top team in Europe. Schmidt has not won a Grand Slam which means Ireland isn't the top team in Europe as we lost to Wales this year and England last year in the 6Ns.

Schmidt played Zebo out of position. He was never given a opportunity to compete for a wing spot. Schmidt had decided who his wingers on being defensively minded. He chose his centres on how defensively minded they were (presumably so that he could use Rob Kearney at fullback who is a very poor defender and was shown up to be that yesterday).

Earls always plays good rugby. He has just been hampered by injury. Lets not forget he was chosen to go on a Lions Tour in 2009 - way before Schmidt hit Irish shores.

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:04 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:probably Schmidt's men just looking to reaffirm his position as a coach in demand after losing to Argentina... albeit under some understandable circumstances i.e. top 4 players from one game to next suddenly out injured.

Lots of injuries didn't save Declan Kidney's international coaching career - remember v. Italy Peter O'Mahony on the wing! (having lost Earls & Fitzgerald) and no POC.

Let's put Declan the Saviour back in then. The coach that didn't actually coach but seems to be compared to a coach that very much does.

Declan had a philosophy of heads up rugby. Schmidt maybe a good coach, but I don't like his playing philosophy. I don't like how he tried to kill off any little bit of flair in the players. Schmidt had decided well before the world cup that Zebo was only ever going to get to it as a tackle bag holder. Gilroy was never going to get a look in. Earls wouldn't have either except Payne got injured.

He is unable to coach players with any bit of flair.

What a load of rubbish - the only creativity we had was a cross field kick to Bowe. He put a guy who never played the game and a defense specialist (Kiss) in charge of the attacks because we had no back moves. If that's heads up rugby then you are better off keeping your head down.

Schmidt took that mess of a set up and made us the top team in European rugby.

Zebo went to cover full back, which is what he did. Gilroy needs to improve his defense as shown on Friday. Earls played every game and has played the best rugby of his Ireland career over the past month.

1. How brilliant are we?
2. I have seen him play better (under Kidney, Gaffney, McGahan and Penney)

by eirebilly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:10 pm

I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

by **rodders** Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
Earls always plays good rugby. He has just been hampered by injury. Lets not forget he was chosen to go on a Lions Tour in 2009 - way before Schmidt hit Irish shores.

The first thing he did on the Lions was drop 3 up and unders and it took him years to recover.

He had one top game under Kidney against England in 2011, there rest of his good performances were against Italy and the tier 2 teams - other than that he's been a weak link in defense and struggled to nail a position.

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:17 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Earls always plays good rugby. He has just been hampered by injury. Lets not forget he was chosen to go on a Lions Tour in 2009 - way before Schmidt hit Irish shores.

The first thing he did on the Lions was drop 3 up and unders and it took him years to recover.

He had one top game under Kidney against England in 2011, there rest of his good performances were against Italy and the tier 2 teams - other than that he's been a weak link in defense and struggled to nail a position.

Wrong..played a few games as replacement for BOD in the 2010 6ns I believe, scored a few tries as well....try to do better Rodders

Oh and when has he been a weak link defensively?

by **rodders** Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:18 pm

eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do.... Wink

by **rodders** Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:18 pm

ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Earls always plays good rugby. He has just been hampered by injury. Lets not forget he was chosen to go on a Lions Tour in 2009 - way before Schmidt hit Irish shores.

The first thing he did on the Lions was drop 3 up and unders and it took him years to recover.

He had one top game under Kidney against England in 2011, there rest of his good performances were against Italy and the tier 2 teams - other than that he's been a weak link in defense and struggled to nail a position.

Wrong..played a few games as replacement for BOD in the 2010 6ns I believe, scored a few tries as well....try to do better Rodders

Oh and when has he been a weak link defensively?

How did the 2010 6N go?

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:18 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:19 pm

eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Grand, billy

So we're all the way back down to 9th or 10th now he's gone? Sad

I know lots of you hate this opinion - Paulie was a great leader but he himself limited the gameplans Schmidt could bring. Say what you will but he wasn't exactly a player that could join in a fast open-field game from week to week to week. The old knees were holding out but they weren't what they used to be.

Maybe we'll see more attack now when we get over the shock of bloody defeat again.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:20 pm

ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls? Very Happy

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:20 pm

rodders wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Earls always plays good rugby. He has just been hampered by injury. Lets not forget he was chosen to go on a Lions Tour in 2009 - way before Schmidt hit Irish shores.

The first thing he did on the Lions was drop 3 up and unders and it took him years to recover.

He had one top game under Kidney against England in 2011, there rest of his good performances were against Italy and the tier 2 teams - other than that he's been a weak link in defense and struggled to nail a position.

Wrong..played a few games as replacement for BOD in the 2010 6ns I believe, scored a few tries as well....try to do better Rodders

Oh and when has he been a weak link defensively?

How did the 2010 6N go?

We came second.

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:21 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

by **rodders** Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:23 pm

ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Earls always plays good rugby. He has just been hampered by injury. Lets not forget he was chosen to go on a Lions Tour in 2009 - way before Schmidt hit Irish shores.

The first thing he did on the Lions was drop 3 up and unders and it took him years to recover.

He had one top game under Kidney against England in 2011, there rest of his good performances were against Italy and the tier 2 teams - other than that he's been a weak link in defense and struggled to nail a position.

Wrong..played a few games as replacement for BOD in the 2010 6ns I believe, scored a few tries as well....try to do better Rodders

Oh and when has he been a weak link defensively?

How did the 2010 6N go?

We came second.

...and got stuffed by France and beaten at home by Scotland in the process. Thanks a bunch Keith.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:24 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills Cool

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:26 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Whatever about catching a ball I think you would be hard pressed to find any footage of Payne ever passing a ball from the 6ns to the time he got injured while playing for Ireland

by eirebilly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:27 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

God loves a trier rodders, so bless Very Happy

POC is and always has been an excellent player and leader. He inspires players on the field to perform better. Read some of the quotes made about him by some Irish players. His onfield leadership was what got Ireland going again, not Schmidt's game plan...

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:29 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Whatever about catching a ball I think you would be hard pressed to find any footage of Payne ever passing a ball from the 6ns to the time he got injured while playing for Ireland

Ah, he passed the ball ok. That's when he had the ball. Spent most of his time defending. We know he can pass a ball. We know he can catch Very Happy

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:29 pm

QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October - Page 19 1347041234

Good stuff lads. We're so much sharper than the dull knife guys on the other threads Wink

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:31 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Whatever about catching a ball I think you would be hard pressed to find any footage of Payne ever passing a ball from the 6ns to the time he got injured while playing for Ireland

Ah, he passed the ball ok. That's when he had the ball. Spent most of his time defending. We know he can pass a ball. We know he can catch

I'll take your word for it. Its about as rare as an Irish team in a RWC Semi Final though.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:31 pm

eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

God loves a trier rodders, so bless

POC is and always has been an excellent player and leader. He inspires players on the field to perform better. Read some of the quotes made about him by some Irish players. His onfield leadership was what got Ireland going again, not Schmidt's game plan...

Schmidt went for his Old Legs Plan when POC showed up. Grand to see they were on the same sheet from the start unlike what the critics tried to suggest Wink

by eirebilly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:33 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Payne passing Shocked

.

I would prefer Earls' 90 passes with two mistakes compared to Payne's 2 passes, 2 completed. At least Earls distributes compared safety first approach Wink

Funnily enough Payne, for all his defensive abilities, actually missed quite a few tackles when playing and Earls looked the better man on man tackler as well as hitting so many rucks.

Didn't want to get into that but couldn't resist Wink

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Payne passing .

I would prefer Earls' 90 passes with two mistakes compared to Payne's 2 passes, 2 completed. At least Earls distributes compared safety first approach

Funnily enough Payne, for all his defensive abilities, actually missed quite a few tackles when playing and Earls looked the better man on man tackler as well as hitting so many rucks.

Didn't want to get into that but couldn't resist

Must have missed them

by eirebilly Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:36 pm

SecretFly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Grand, billy

So we're all the way back down to 9th or 10th now he's gone?

I know lots of you hate this opinion - Paulie was a great leader but he himself limited the gameplans Schmidt could bring. Say what you will but he wasn't exactly a player that could join in a fast open-field game from week to week to week. The old knees were holding out but they weren't what they used to be.

Maybe we'll see more attack now when we get over the shock of bloody defeat again.

I would not write it off to be honest. As I have said for many many months, Schmidt's tactics have been found out and the better side will have a better win ratio against them. The honeymoon period is over.

I truly hope he learns a lot from this because if Ireland do not have a good 6N, I can see people sharpening their knives.

by Marshes Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:39 pm

Tackles/Missed tackles for the backs against Argentina from ESPN:
Rob Kearney 7/3
Luke Fitzgerald 0/1
Keith Earls 7/3
Robbie Henshaw 13/1
Dave Kearney 5/5

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:44 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Whatever about catching a ball I think you would be hard pressed to find any footage of Payne ever passing a ball from the 6ns to the time he got injured while playing for Ireland

Ah, he passed the ball ok. That's when he had the ball. Spent most of his time defending. We know he can pass a ball. We know he can catch

I'll take your word for it. Its about as rare as an Irish team in a RWC Semi Final though.

You need to watch more Ulster games.

Anyway, this is about catching. Not passing. You changed the focus mad

by ME-109 Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:45 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Whatever about catching a ball I think you would be hard pressed to find any footage of Payne ever passing a ball from the 6ns to the time he got injured while playing for Ireland

Ah, he passed the ball ok. That's when he had the ball. Spent most of his time defending. We know he can pass a ball. We know he can catch

I'll take your word for it. Its about as rare as an Irish team in a RWC Semi Final though.

You need to watch more Ulster games.

Anyway, this is about catching. Not passing. You changed the focus

He plays FB...he doesnt need to..

by Sin é Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:46 pm

SecretFly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Grand, billy

So we're all the way back down to 9th or 10th now he's gone?

I know lots of you hate this opinion - Paulie was a great leader but he himself limited the gameplans Schmidt could bring. Say what you will but he wasn't exactly a player that could join in a fast open-field game from week to week to week. The old knees were holding out but they weren't what they used to be.

Maybe we'll see more attack now when we get over the shock of bloody defeat again.

Possibly because Schmidt needed POC for the full 80 minutes, though according to some of the analysis that Murray Kinsella has done, he is generally one of the first to arrive at the breakdown (along with Earls). Not bad for an auld fellow with weak knees Wink

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:49 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Payne passing .

I would prefer Earls' 90 passes with two mistakes compared to Payne's 2 passes, 2 completed. At least Earls distributes compared safety first approach

Funnily enough Payne, for all his defensive abilities, actually missed quite a few tackles when playing and Earls looked the better man on man tackler as well as hitting so many rucks.

Didn't want to get into that but couldn't resist

Oh billy. We all know how much you love Earls. Can find a fault in the man.

It's all moot anyway. Payne nor Earls are the future at centre, or perhaps anywhere in an Ireland team.

Henshaw - McCloskey/Olding. That's the future.

by Guest Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:53 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think one of the major factors yesterday was the loss of POC's leadership qualities. I know a lot of you hate this opinion but I still firmly believe that the up-trend in Ireland from 9th to 2nd had more to do with POC's return to the team than Schmidt...

Or was it because Schmidt finally taught POC to catch and pass the ball, something Kidney and Penney failed to do....

Pity he didnt get around to the rest of the team then...

Like earls?

Earls and Zebo in the group stages were about the only two who did pass the ball....as for the rest of the games we just played GAA with an egg.

Earls can pass a ball ok. Not so good at catching though. Payne is blessed with both these skills

Whatever about catching a ball I think you would be hard pressed to find any footage of Payne ever passing a ball from the 6ns to the time he got injured while playing for Ireland

Ah, he passed the ball ok. That's when he had the ball. Spent most of his time defending. We know he can pass a ball. We know he can catch

I'll take your word for it. Its about as rare as an Irish team in a RWC Semi Final though.

You need to watch more Ulster games.

Anyway, this is about catching. Not passing. You changed the focus

He plays FB...he doesnt need to..

I will change that. You need to watch an Ulster game.

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