Ireland 2016 Squad

First topic message reminder :

So what would you like to see for the 6 nations and end of season tour of South Africa? Who would you like brought in and left out? Les Kiss and POC are gone, the only definites..


Players I think should be brought in to the squad or considered:
Olding - Utility back
McCloskey - center
Garry Ringrose - center
Marmion - scrum half
Luke McGrath - scrum half
Dave O'Callaghan - blindside
Sherry - hooker
Josh Van Der Flier - openside
Dan Leavy - backrow
Jack Conan - 8
Jack O'Donoghue - 8
Cj Stander - 8
Ross Moloney - lock
Marty Moore - tighthead
Matt Healy - winger
Cathal Marsh  - outhalf
Andrew Trimble - winger

Some of the best young (except Trimble) players in Ireland to consider.

rodders wrote:Wouldn't pick Payne at 15 - Henshaw has been there all season and playing well.

Payne doesn't have the legs to play in the back 3 anymore imo. Nearly does Kearney mind you....

Rodders Henshaw has only played twice all season, both at 15. O Halloran has mostly been the full back for Connacht, and has been in brilliant form. Should be looking at an opportunity in the training squad as backup 15

Marshes wrote:

rodders wrote:Wouldn't pick Payne at 15 - Henshaw has been there all season and playing well.

Payne doesn't have the legs to play in the back 3 anymore imo. Nearly does Kearney mind you....

Rodders Henshaw has only played twice all season, both at 15. O Halloran has mostly been the full back for Connacht, and has been in brilliant form. Should be looking at an opportunity in the training squad as backup 15

For some reason, I have only seen O'Halloran on the wing and he has certainly looked good there.

For what it's worth here is my prediction of Joe's Squad at the turn of the year, not necessarily what I would pick but would settle for a good blend of old and new:

15) Kearney (Under pressure from Payne if he is back. I'd love to see O Halloran get a shot, has been the best 15 in Ireland this year)
14) Trimble (Best winger in Ireland)
13) Henshaw (Give him a chance outside McCloskey in his best position. Looking forward to seeing more from Luke Marshall at 13)
12) McCloskey (Demanding to be picked on his form)
11) Fitzgerald (close between Earls, Gilroy and D. Kearney aswell, Zebo out of the running on form)
10) Sexton (P. Jackson a great second option as well, should start a game in this 6N)
9) Murray (Struggling behind a lightweight pack at Munster, still a class act. Reddan and Boss should be)
8) Heaslip (Stander will probably be involved from the bench)
7) SOB (Best option here. Henry an able replacement)
6) Ruddock (Close call vs Stander but Ruddock has been arouund the squad so I think gets 1st shot)
5) McCarthy (Not many options here. Playing ell for Leinster though)
4) Toner (Very important he stays fit for some continuity in the engine room.)
3) Moore (Time for Ross to hang up the boots. Give Moore and Furlong the chance to develop)
2) Best (Great leadership, fantastic work at the breakdown)
1) McGrath (Easily ahead of Healy now and the best option. Denis Buckley next for me if not injured)

Replacements: Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Stander, Marmion, Jackson, Earls

Agree that will probably be Joe's team Marshes. I posted my backs selection on the previous page and feel that has a better balance.

As you watch Marmion week in week out, do you think that he is ready to step up to the full team if Murray is out of form or get injured?

Sexton, as rodders said, will start but I think that will be a mistake if he isn't back to his excellent best. Jackson is streaks ahead at the moment.

eirebilly wrote:Great to see Paddy Jackson have a great 2nd half against Oynnax today. I always questioned if his kicking was as bad as made out to be only to be informed that it was and it would keep him out of the Irish team. After today's game, I think there might be some humble pie consumed.

Again I say that I do not see his kicking as a huge weakness and on current form, is ahead of Sexton for Irish selection...

Why would there be humble pie consumed? There were worries (and still are, his goal kicking was poor the previous week) that he isn't consistent enough. It was great to see he had a good day yesterday and hopefully he can continue with that sort of form at the highest level.

McCarthy although not one for the future has had a great season so far at Leinster. I think he should be starting ahead of Ryan and Foley. Muldowney wasnt in the training squad and the rest are too inexperienced.


When is Ross/Henshaw/Trimble expected back?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Great to see Paddy Jackson have a great 2nd half against Oynnax today. I always questioned if his kicking was as bad as made out to be only to be informed that it was and it would keep him out of the Irish team. After today's game, I think there might be some humble pie consumed.

Again I say that I do not see his kicking as a huge weakness and on current form, is ahead of Sexton for Irish selection...

Why would there be humble pie consumed? There were worries (and still are, his goal kicking was poor the previous week) that he isn't consistent enough. It was great to see he had a good day yesterday and hopefully he can continue with that sort of form at the highest level.

As I have said on many occasions, I never felt that Jackson's kicking was that bad. You were one of the posters that said that his kicking would keep him out of Irish reckoning.

Against Munster, he was against some atrocious weather but backed himself and missed. I like players that show that confidence, even if it does not pay off. Would Sexton have kicked them? I personally doubt it.

he is the most controlling 10 in Ireland right now.

Jackson's goal-kicking percentages have always been below 80% which just isn't good enough for a Test level kicker.
Anyway, the real concerns are second row and Conor Murray's loss of form rather than the backline where there are plenty of good options.

Ulster showing faith in Jackson (ahead od Ruan) is actually helping him I feel.

eirebilly wrote:Ulster showing faith in Jackson (ahead od Ruan) is actually helping him I feel.

Absolutely and I hope he will get better and better.

eirebilly wrote:Agree that will probably be Joe's team Marshes. I posted my backs selection on the previous page and feel that has a better balance.

As you watch Marmion week in week out, do you think that he is ready to step up to the full team if Murray is out of form or get injured?

Sexton, as rodders said, will start but I think that will be a mistake if he isn't back to his excellent best. Jackson is streaks ahead at the moment.

Wouldn't be averse to Henshaw to 15 and Marshall in the centre, him and McCloskey are flying at the minute, and the two games Henshaw has played at full back he has been top drawer. But I have to say TOH has been brilliant there and should be getting a look in at the training squad, even over Healy who could also be knocking on the door! TOH at 15 could offer a lot more than Kearney.

Marmion has been back to his best this season, second half of last season he was second best to John Cooney, but he seems to have rediscovered the form that got him near the Ireland squad in the first place. He is a good passer, strong in the tackle for his size, has a good eye for a break and a mean step. His kicking can be a bit overcooked and he can force his option occasionally but I think both of those have improved noticeably. I think if faith is put in him he could be a very decent backup to Murray. Problem is that when he has been given a chance for the wolfhounds or called into the training camps, Reddan or even Boss seems to come out on top. I'm sure Joe would love to have younger options coming through, and if Marmion was showing what was needed he would be in there. So he must not be turning up when it counts.

He should really be taking this chance now to be Ireland's backup, otherwise lads like McGrath, Cooney or McCarthy might be in better positions. I think he does have the quality but with Connacht's stock high and no other young challengers he needs to strike while the iron is hot. He certainly looked at the required level in any of the interpros this year.

Also second row for me is a big concern. Ryan and McCarthy are both pretty injury prone or not really capable of 80 minutes, one outninjured and we are down to the bare bones . Muldowney has been great for Connacht butnhas been flogging himself for the cause, so is due some time off. Foley, Dillane, O Connor I guess are the next options but all totally untested.

I wonder is it too early for Dillane this year? We really do not have many other options.

I think if we had better options it would be, but with hendo out and questions marks over Ryan's fitness or mccarthys stamina, it is untested waters with touhy, dillane, O connor, Foley, muldowney who are options. Dillane was called in for the last training camp so might be the one.

Marshes wrote:

rodders wrote:Wouldn't pick Payne at 15 - Henshaw has been there all season and playing well.

Payne doesn't have the legs to play in the back 3 anymore imo. Nearly does Kearney mind you....

Rodders Henshaw has only played twice all season, both at 15. O Halloran has mostly been the full back for Connacht, and has been in brilliant form. Should be looking at an opportunity in the training squad as backup 15

Exactly, 100% of his games were at 15!

Actually I think Henshaw is brilliant at fullback - with McCloskey there now we don't need his physicality at 12.

As Joe said we used a manufactured midfield over the last season, which functioned well, but with McCloskey, Marshall and Ringrose playing so well we can put square pegs in round holes and people in their best positions. I'm still hoping for a McCloskey/Henshaw partnership but in another season Ringose will be the best outside center, so Henshaws international future is at 15 imo.

Gilroy I think must be in the picture for a back 3 position too. If Schmidt is happy with his all round game he can't be ignored because he adds something extra with his elusive running and finishing.

Billy I will eat humble pie a bit with Jackson - I didn't think he had the temperament, or range, to nail that kick in those circumstance. But he has to do it consistently. I did like his confidence though, no way he was letting Ruan take that kick - especially after missing a few against Munster the previous week.

Henshaw is great at 15, but his best games for me have been at 13 for Connacht, against Gloucester in the playoff last year springs to mind, and our best partnership for me would be McCloskey with Henshaw outside. The physicality and handling from that midfield would be a fantastic threat. The only way I see it not being that partnership is if henshaw and Payne are retained in position.

If Ringrose comes into the picture or if Marshall continues his upward trajectory then I think we can look at Henshaw to 15 to make best use of resources. But if we are willing to consider Connacht players for the fullback position, then TOH would pick of the bunch at the minute.

Put me down as another vote for McCloskey-Henshaw in midfield. I like it because we can play very route one style rugby, but both of those guys are also capable of opening the game up and have very good offloading and passing skills. So a lot of potential for tactical variation in other words. We'll miss Payne's organisation and vision, but he can't get back in for Wales with only 1 or 2 games under his belt. I've always said he was a stopgap centre while other options come through and now that they are we should give them their head.

Whether or not he's selected, McCloskey will benefit from working under Schmidt in terms of improving his decision making in attack. He's at times made offloads when they're not on, and trucked it up when they are. Not saying he's consistently making the wrong decision but there's no doubt that that part of his game has more room for development. I'll understand if he gets to the Ireland camp and is still seen as a work in progress, but he will benefit hugely from being involved with the national set-up. And given Henshaw has been playing at 12 and seldom asked to pass, McCloskey can perform that role- the way he was blasting through tackles in the second half on Sunday was awesome. Let's watch him very carefully this weekend, Saracens are the closest thing to a test side defence in NH club rugby.

The big question for me is; is Donnacha Ryan going to be fit? Toner-Ryan is the only decent second row partnership available to us. Seriously, our depth is very weak.

I'd go with;

1. McGrath
2. Best (c)
3. Moore
4. Toner
5. Ryan (or McCarthy if he's out)
6. Ruddock
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. McCloskey
13. Henshaw
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

16. Strauss
17. Healy
18. Furlong
19. Mick McCarthy or... Foley? Dillane?
20. Stander
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Fitzgerald

Notch wrote:

The big question for me is; is Donnacha Ryan going to be fit? Toner-Ryan is the only decent second row partnership available to us. Seriously, our depth is very weak.

Big Mike is better than Donnacha atm. I never got the hate towards Mike, always plays very well in green, and is in top form at the moment.

Also has Furlong not established himself as the top dog?

I think it would be nice to Earls and Fitz on the wing. The two guys who broke through at such a young age in 09', selected for the Lions Tour, now finally starting together after seasons ravaged by injury. honestly though any 2 our Trims, Fitz, Earls, Gilroy, and I'm happy.

rodders wrote:

Billy I will eat humble pie a bit with Jackson - I didn't think he had the temperament, or range, to nail that kick in those circumstance. But he has to do it consistently. I did like his confidence though, no way he was letting Ruan take that kick - especially after missing a few against Munster the previous week.

Good man yourself there rodders, nice to have some integrity on here

My point was and stays the same, his kicking is not that bad and certainly not something that should keep him out of the Irish team. Do you remember when Sexton first started playing for Ireland? His kicking was pretty average (difficult for him as well when after every missed kick ROG was put on the big screen) but it was accepted because he was an exceptionally good talent at 10.

If Sexton does not regain his form then Schmidt would be silly not to start Jackson, he is much better than Madigan.

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:

Billy I will eat humble pie a bit with Jackson - I didn't think he had the temperament, or range, to nail that kick in those circumstance. But he has to do it consistently. I did like his confidence though, no way he was letting Ruan take that kick - especially after missing a few against Munster the previous week.

Good man yourself there rodders, nice to have some integrity on here

My point was and stays the same, his kicking is not that bad and certainly not something that should keep him out of the Irish team. Do you remember when Sexton first started playing for Ireland? His kicking was pretty average (difficult for him as well when after every missed kick ROG was put on the big screen) but it was accepted because he was an exceptionally good talent at 10.

If Sexton does not regain his form then Schmidt would be silly not to start Jackson, he is much better than Madigan.

I do hope that is not a reference to my notorious financial impropriety, that money was just resting in my account etc.

I think while Jackson's kicking my be improving (I;m not sure I haven't followed it enough), he does need to be the only kicker at Ulster when he is on the field (if he ins't already). I'm sure the media will start banging on about his kicking if he replaces Sexton and misses some for Ireland, like the low hanging fruit it is.

On Sexton, from what I saw of him in the Ospreys match he seemed to play well and has been last few matches. Joe also gets the best out of him. Are there still concerns about him form then? Happy for Jackson to step in but still would say Joe would have him a firm second behind his muse.

Someone said above Earls and Fitz as wings, I think now that Trimble is fit again, firing on all cylinders and has a point to prove he should be be nailed on. If we are talking up Jackson's kick against Oyonnax, Trimble's finish against Toulouse is an example of his quality.

Marshes, no reference to you at all. I just think its good form when a poster is a person of their word which rodders is

I believe that Jackson is the designated kicker at Ulster now with Ruan taking a back seat which is great for Jackson's development.

I may not have been clear in regards to Sexton as if fit and on form, he is still the best 10 in Ireland. If not the Jackson should start.

Ah if you didn't mention it Billy someone else would have!

You're golden Marshes and a quality poster as well. Always look forward to reading your comments

Good man Billy!

Bad news for Joe from the Connacht injury update, Henshaw likely to be out for another 1-2 weeks with his hand fracture, which doesn't give him much game time before the six nations.

On the other hand, Denis Buckley has recovered in about six weeks from an injury that was expected to keep him out for twelve. Hoping he can still get into the training squad, Joe seemed to have an eye on him earlier in the year.

http://www.connachtrugby.ie/squad-up.../#ConnachtNews

What's the transfer news on Henshaw? I truly hope he stays with Connacht.

Sounds like Marty Moore is off to Wasps - any thoughts?

rodders wrote:Sounds like Marty Moore is off to Wasps - any thoughts?

Bloody hell. Not good. Hope its just pre-contract negotiation talk. Ross is gone next season isnt he?

When is the Ireland squad named?

eirebilly wrote:What's the transfer news on Henshaw? I truly hope he stays with Connacht.

The IRFU are trying to keep him in Connacht - I read somewhere that he will only get a central contract if he remains with Connacht.

Sin é wrote:

eirebilly wrote:What's the transfer news on Henshaw? I truly hope he stays with Connacht.

The IRFU are trying to keep him in Connacht - I read somewhere that he will only get a central contract if he remains with Connacht.

I read somewhere Nucifora saying that they aim was to keep him at Connacht, not sure about the last part, be an interesting line for the Irfu to take!

With Moore that would be a real test of the irfu "keep them in Ireland" policy, as aside from him and curling then other options are either not to the standard or considering their pensions. Don't know what the motivation is, could just be contract wrangling..

Well report I heard was Leinster would only give Moore a 2 year deal, whereas Wasps have offered 3 years. Not sure if it is a done deal.

rodders wrote:Sounds like Marty Moore is off to Wasps - any thoughts?

Thats the one that really hurts for the IRFU- losing Ian Madigan or even the likes of Simon Zebo isn't ideal, but a young tight head with all of his best years in front of him? Would be the biggest loss since Sexton.

I wonder if they are backing Tadhg Furlong for a central contract ahead of him in the near future. I'm not sure who the better prospect is.

Sin é wrote:

eirebilly wrote:What's the transfer news on Henshaw? I truly hope he stays with Connacht.

The IRFU are trying to keep him in Connacht - I read somewhere that he will only get a central contract if he remains with Connacht.

That's really great news if true. He has the chance to make a real legend of himself at Connacht.

Payne back at 15 for Ulster. With all the knew center options and lack of fullback options, its good to see for Ulster and Ireland.

I cant remember when Ireland had such strength in depth in the centres, its great to see.

Some very real competition for Sexton at 10 is great and I feel that Marmion isn't too far away from applying some real pressure on Murray either.

profitius wrote:Payne back at 15 for Ulster. With all the knew center options and lack of fullback options, its good to see for Ulster and Ireland.

Although I'm not part of the Payne is a far better 15 than center bandwagon brigade (), I think this is a good selection.

Both teams are looking weaker at fullback than center, which is a turn around from last season.

McCloskey and Marshall are just forming a really excellent partnership outside Jackson.

rodders wrote:
Although I'm not part of the Payne is a far better 15 than center bandwagon brigade (), I think this is a good selection.

Both teams are looking weaker at fullback than center, which is a turn around from last season.

McCloskey and Marshall are just forming a really excellent partnership outside Jackson.

Stupid place to start Payne, 15!!! Every man and his dog knows he is the worlds best right wing

eirebilly wrote:I cant remember when Ireland had such strength in depth in the centres, its great to see.

Some very real competition for Sexton at 10 is great and I feel that Marmion isn't too far away from applying some real pressure on Murray either.

We never had much cover at center. BOD and D'Arcy were there for a decade and were relatively injury free. There is a bit of depth to the squad these days. Just need someone to challenge Murray now and a few new second rows. Not too many fullbacks around either.

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:
Although I'm not part of the Payne is a far better 15 than center bandwagon brigade (), I think this is a good selection.

Both teams are looking weaker at fullback than center, which is a turn around from last season.

McCloskey and Marshall are just forming a really excellent partnership outside Jackson.

Stupid place to start Payne, 15!!! Every man and his dog knows he is the worlds best right wing

Well I heard Keith Earls dog thinks he's the best right wing anyway .

Not too many fullbacks? Kearney is still around and any of Zebo, Gilroy, Payne, Henshaw and O'Halloran are more than competent at fullbacks. Plenty of depth there in my mind. Its wingers Ireland need to have an issue with right now I feel.

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Stupid place to start Payne, 15!!! Every man and his dog knows he is the worlds best right wing

Well I heard Keith Earls dog thinks he's the best right wing anyway   .

Although true, Max is out with a long term injuries and may not be available. He was the closest thing to Payne as the best Irish right wing.

Loads of full backs!

Rob Kearney is past it, Gilroy and Zebo are wingers (the latter is useless too). O'Hallaran and Conway are decent pro12 players.

Henshaw and Payne would both be valuable options at 15 as we are stacked with midfielders.

McCloskey, Marshall and Ringrose have come in and changed the game  - I think Noel Reid has a lot of potential too, with Olding still to return and that young fella at Munster too.

And all that without mentioning Lukey Fitz, who by all accounts from Dublin 4 is a world class operator in whatever position he sees fit to grace his presence in.

On on form Zebo is excellent on both winger and fullback positions. Gilroy has certainly not looked to bad when I have seen him play there. O'Halloran is coming along nicely and will be a very good 15 for Ireland, of that I have no doubt.

Payne needs play there now as his last man defending is so good compared to Kearney's but when back in form I would imagine Zebo will get the nod. I much prefer to Have Henshaw at 13 but Marshall is playing very well there alongside McCloskey.

It was very good to see Payne return yesterday. Looked completely match fit after being out for so long. That's the quality he has. I felt that he played very well at 15 even though Ulster were being well beaten. I would definitely have him ahead of Kearney now.

Some Leinster players impressed yesterday. Luke McGrath was good. Not much between him, Reddan and Marmion now.

eirebilly wrote:It was very good to see Payne return yesterday. Looked completely match fit after being out for so long. That's the quality he has. I felt that he played very well at 15 even though Ulster were being well beaten. I would definitely have him ahead of Kearney now.

Same here. Henshaw would also offer a new attack dimension if played at fullback.

I prefer to have Henshaw at 13, think he is just that bit better than Marshall but if things remain as they are, I would have to keep the McCloskey/Marshall pairing going simply due to their familiarity together.

profitius wrote:Some Leinster players impressed yesterday. Luke McGrath was good. Not much between him, Reddan and Marmion now.

eirebilly wrote:It was very good to see Payne return yesterday. Looked completely match fit after being out for so long. That's the quality he has. I felt that he played very well at 15 even though Ulster were being well beaten. I would definitely have him ahead of Kearney now.

Same here. Henshaw would also offer a new attack dimension if played at fullback.

Would be happy with that combo, Marshall seems to have a new lease of life at 13, really hope he can stay injury free as he does have the quality. I'd be happy with Marmion or McGrath on the bench, should have an eye on the future when they are all around the same quality, leave Reddan to Leinster.

Tracy had a good game for ye yesterday prof, when Cronin came on was when ye missed the first lineout! He does add that more in attac, but really inconsistent with his darts.

For Connacht, Ultan Dillane had another good game last night, Healy and TOH also strong as ever

I like the idea of Marmion or McGrath on the bench, it is time to start looking to the future and the sooner these players get the exposure, the better.

Marshes wrote:

profitius wrote:Some Leinster players impressed yesterday. Luke McGrath was good. Not much between him, Reddan and Marmion now.

eirebilly wrote:It was very good to see Payne return yesterday. Looked completely match fit after being out for so long. That's the quality he has. I felt that he played very well at 15 even though Ulster were being well beaten. I would definitely have him ahead of Kearney now.

Same here. Henshaw would also offer a new attack dimension if played at fullback.

Would be happy with that combo, Marshall seems to have a new lease of life at 13, really hope he can stay injury free as he does have the quality. I'd be happy with Marmion or McGrath on the bench, should have an eye on the future when they are all around the same quality, leave Reddan to Leinster.

Tracy had a good game for ye yesterday prof, when Cronin came on was when ye missed the first lineout! He does add that more in attac, but really inconsistent with his darts.

For Connacht, Ultan Dillane had another good game last night, Healy and TOH also strong as ever

Agree about Tracy, Marshes. He is very good in the loose and his darts were spot on yesterday. He looks a much better player than Strauss but Strauss I presume will be ahead in terms of Ireland selection. Schmidt brings new blood into the squad at a glacial pace eg McCluskey not making the pre world cup training squad.

PS, Munster are my team.

After a dire European season so far for the provinces, this would be my team for Wales.

15 Payne
14 Earls
13 Henshaw
12 McCloskey
11 Kearney
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
6 Ruddock
7 O'Brien
5 Toner
4 McCarthy
3 White
2 Best(c)
1 McGrath

Bench: Moore, Cronin, Healy, Ryan, Stander, Reddan, Jackson, Zebo.

Don't have high hopes for the 6N to be honest. I think we'll do well to finish top 3. That said I thought the same 2 seasons ago and we won.... England and Wales both look decent bets for a slam.