Silly season transfer rumours III...

First topic message reminder :

Previous seasonal silliness:
https://www.606v2.com/t57129-silly-season-transfer-rumours
https://www.606v2.com/t58562-silly-season-transfer-rumours-continued


The place to confirm rumours, deny them, or viciously start new ones of your own.

yappysnap wrote:Lots of noise that Harkequins may sign ode the AB's Read, Messam or Luatua under the injury dispensation rule for Luamanu and Talei

Well

Messam = 10000000000% no chance
Read maybe = But might want to nail down captaincy for All blacks which IMO would require super rugby but he might want a quick top up before Lions tour next year.
Luatua - With Messam out of picture for the year he could well have a shot who knows.

with McCaw and Messam out for the year most likely (McCaw might still want to play for them) there could be 2 places free for this years tri nations i expect Savea to have one, the other is a bit more in the air maybe Ioane.

Quins might be better to target Vito if Read stays.

Unlikely to be Read as he fails the experience part of the injury dispensation. Messam is going to play sevens so isn't going to be around for an AP stint he'll be resting up then adapting his fitness for sevens. Luatua is the only one I can see coming to pass.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Northampton have nurtured through a few young players in recent years and Mallinder was previously involved with England age grade rugby. The club also went out of their way to make sure North recovered from his head knocks which Wales certainly didn't.

How many Welsh backs wearing numbers greater than 10 played to their full potential in the RWC? I'd say none. Injuries didn't help but given the pace and creativity available the stodgy power game used was the safe option. The Welsh camp had those backs and North in camp for months. I think it's easier for the Welsh fans to point the finger at Saints for North failing to build on his promising early international form with Wales than it is to admit their coaches are not utilising their backs to the best of their abilities.

North's form has been dipping for the last 2 seasons, the only decent game he has had for Wales was against Italy last season and they were rubish that day. I am sure Mallinder is a great coach but he and the rest of his team are just not getting the best out of George.

I can't argue about your assessment of the Welsh three quarters in the World Cup, they were poor, but with 10 injuries it's hardly surprising. Saying that Scot Williams was looking good until he also fell victim to the injury curse.

22 tries in 40 games for North at Saints, more last season than the season before even with a hefty lay off, though that was helped by scoring four vs the Ospreys and three vs Gloucester. They certainly missed him when he wasn't there at the end of last season. I think Mallinder is getting what he wants out of North, though an improvement in him coming off the wing ala Ashton is still being sought.

Gatland and the Wales team are struggling to get the best out of North. I don't think that can be blamed on Northampton.

formerly known as Sam wrote:22 tries in 40 games for North at Saints, more last season than the season before even with a hefty lay off, though that was helped by scoring four vs the Ospreys and three vs Gloucester. They certainly missed him when he wasn't there at the end of last season. I think Mallinder is getting what he wants out of North, though an improvement in him coming off the wing ala Ashton is still being sought.

Gatland and the Wales team are struggling to get the best out of North. I don't think that can be blamed on Northampton.

Whether he is playing well at club level or not is irrelevant as far as his international career is concerned, if he continues to play poorly at international level he will not go on the Lions tour and may find himself dropped by Wales. The fact remains that his form has plummeted since joining Saints, whilst prior to the move he was on a very much upwards curve, culminating in an outstanding Lions tour.

I don't know what is going wrong with George at Northampton, but playing well at English Premiership level clearly does not transfer to playing well at test level, I am sure Lancaster will now testify to this. Maybe it's playing too much rugby that is the problem, burning players out with fatigue? The same is happening to players who go to France, there has been a clamour for Steff Armitage to play for England, he looks great very good every Saturday playing at the back of a World class pack, but test rugby is very different, again St Andre will also testify to this fact.

He's played well at Northampton though. Maybe it's just like Ashton, the better teams at international level know he's a big danger and spend more time negating him there.

Or Wales don't use him correctly.

I don't think ashton's England form dropped as teams found out how to handle him but England changed their game plan and instead of having an attacking 10 to play off (Flood) he had Farrell to run off.

Even with Farrell though other wings performed better. We may well be able to test that theory out though if the new guy likes him.

I think Lancaster disliked Ashton's attitude and his preoccupation with selecting youth where possible allowed him to drop Ashton in favour of others. We aren't short of talented young wingers.

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's played well at Northampton though. Maybe it's just like Ashton, the better teams at international level know he's a big danger and spend more time negating him there.

This does not explain North's 3 seasons of spectacular improvement followed by 2 seasons of equally spectacular dip in form?

My recollection on Ashford was that he was just playing for himself, looking for the big score and leaving mundane tasks such as defence and tackling to other less talented individuals!

Don't know but if North hasn't suffered a dip in form for his club I think it's more a case of lack of an adaption at international level. He's well known now people will target him more. While you can get away with that at club level at the step up it's more noticeable. Ashton is pretty much the same player he was but at international level he was being targeted in defence more and not going looking for the ball enough; something that was levelled at Lancasters fault but other wingers have gone looking.

Looks like the North form discussion is taking over this thread when it seems it could sustain a thread all on its own.

Rumours that Leicester are going to sign Italy loosehead Matia Aguera have been further fuelled by Gonzalo Camacho posting a photo on social media of himself, Ayerza, Ghirildini and Aguero together in Leicester.

With Rizzo out for the season plus Ayerza and Mulipola struggling with injuries more recently it would be good cover. Young Samoan prop Aniseko Sio is also out with a broken leg.

It does however raise even more question of the coaches faith in Brugnara given that Balmain has been moved to LH recently rather than backing him there.

If he does come I'm guessing it will also indicate that Matt Parr was signed much more as a coach than player - which was expected.

Brugnara is good round the park but not at the scrum. He looks to have bulked up a bit this off season but he is also still young. Against experienced props he and Balmain (whilst at LH) are struggling and that's a concern given that we need to be strong up front. An experienced signing might be a good option short term, if we could get him in for a couple of months that would be ideal.

Dave Denton to join Bath apparently

Where did you hear that bam? When would it happen?

BamBam wrote:Dave Denton to join Bath apparently

Interesting one and I can't say that it doesn't make sense.

Denton's competition for a starting loose forward berth at Edinburgh are (a) the club captain (Mike Coman), (b) the man who captained the Highlanders to a Super Rugby title last year (Nasi Manu), (c) Scotland's player of the World Cup (John Hardie) and (d) Scotland's best young talent at openside (Hamish Watson). As he is such a big lad and Edinburgh is crippled with injuries at lock, there has also been a move from Solomons recently to sling him into the boiler room - a position that Denton has gone on the record as saying he bloody hates.

So this one has legs given Burgess' departure.
A big, power carrier in his prime who can play well at 6 and 8 - they would love him at the Rec.

Denton to replace Burgess? I didn't know he could play 12

Joking aside, are Bath likely to play him at 6 or 8? He's far more effective at 8.

He's not the kind of player that likes spending 80 minutes at the bottom of rucks or running through heavy traffic, but if you give him front foot ball and get him running into spaces he is very destructive. In that regard I think Bath will be a good fit for him.

He does have hands like feet though so hopefully Bath can improve that!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Denton to replace Burgess? I didn't know he could play 12

Joking aside, are Bath likely to play him at 6 or 8? He's far more effective at 8.

He's not the kind of player that likes spending 80 minutes at the bottom of rucks or running through heavy traffic, but if you give him front foot ball and get him running into spaces he is very destructive. In that regard I think Bath will be a good fit for him.

He does have hands like feet though so hopefully Bath can improve that!

Might mean that Bath are giving up on Faletau

Reported by one of the rugby journos I follow on Twitter, can't remember which one now, but typing Dave Denton into Twitter shows others including David Flatman saying the same

Interestingly, some reckon that Bath have gone for Denton because Faletau is getting a massive offer from Toulouse

I reckon we should start a rumour on Twitter and see how long it takes to spread.

Dan Parks to make a dramatic return to rugby in a big money deal with Toulon?

At least Denton leaving probably means Coman will be staying

Seriously Edinburgh should try to bring in Renaldo Bothma, the Namibian 8. Hell of a player.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Denton to replace Burgess? I didn't know he could play 12

Joking aside, are Bath likely to play him at 6 or 8? He's far more effective at 8.

He's not the kind of player that likes spending 80 minutes at the bottom of rucks or running through heavy traffic, but if you give him front foot ball and get him running into spaces he is very destructive. In that regard I think Bath will be a good fit for him.

He does have hands like feet though so hopefully Bath can improve that!

Denton will probably act as cover for Garvey at 6 and Houston at 8. Bath generally rotate quite a lot and both Houston and Garvey are grafters so Bath won't want to field then every week.

I'd say Denton should be the first choice 8, he's a far better player than Houston imo, who is as you say, a grafter

Very happy with Denton heading to Bath, Faletau is overrated at club level anyway.

Was gonna say - I don't know much about Garvey and Houston but Denton is an international class number 8 and a standout player in the world cup. I'd hope from a Scotland point of view he'd be regularly starting for Bath!

I think he will be and can only improve with the level of competition he'll be up against each week. good news for Scotland too imo.

I really rate Houston, I wouldn't be surprised to see Denton play 6. However putting him at 8 means he gets his hands on the ball much easier!

Great signing for Bath, especially after his World Cup showing.

6. Garvey
7. Louw
8. Denton

Is a very nice backrow.

Fluxy wrote:I really rate Houston, I wouldn't be surprised to see Denton play 6. However putting him at 8 means he gets his hands on the ball much easier!

As I said earlier - having watched him from when he first broke through for Edinburgh, he is much more effective at 8.

Various journalists now saying the deal is confirmed and he'll join up with Bath in the next week or so.

BamBam wrote:I'd say Denton should be the first choice 8, he's a far better player than Houston imo, who is as you say, a grafter

Houston is the incumbent and knows the team. Also we're heading for winter and Denton is the kind of 8 you want on hard pitches as he's not really the hard yards, big tackle count kind of 8. Having said that Houston isn't exactly a machine in defence but he'll carry all day which is what you want when the weather turns. Use Denton for impetus as defences tire and then come the better weather when he's settled in he nay take the starting spot.

I know he's well hyped above the wall but when I've seen him in the six nations I've generally been unimpressed. He was good at the RWC though with firm ground and attacking intent.

Bath have confirmed the signing pending a medical

http://www.bathrugby.com/news/denton-signs-for-bath-rugby/

LondonTiger wrote:Bath have confirmed the signing pending a medical

http://www.bathrugby.com/news/denton-signs-for-bath-rugby/

Yep, so have Edinburgh - obviously had to wait to release both at the same time:
http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/15/11/10/david-denton

Georgian international Shalva Mamukashvili signs for Glasgow as injury cover in the hooker position. Any Sale Sharks fans care to comment?

Not sure if it has been reported, however Matt Toomua is on the brink of signing for Wasps supposedly.

Read on the BBC that David Denton was approached by Leicester during pre-season but turned them down.

I wonder what made him change his mind...!

Fluxy wrote:Not sure if it has been reported, however Matt Toomua is on the brink of signing for Wasps supposedly.

He was seen in Leicester having photos taken with fans, wonder what happened

Toomua has a year left on his contract down under. Leicester wanted him for next season. Maybe Wasps are willing to buy him out and get him here earlier. Otherwise it's a bit of a blow for Tigers.

I'd be surprised if we approached Denton. We were linked previously but had Crane and Pearce already and Fonua agreed a year in advance. Can only think the club considered him a potential replacement for Croft if he had to retire or opted to leave.

nathan wrote:

Fluxy wrote:Not sure if it has been reported, however Matt Toomua is on the brink of signing for Wasps supposedly.

He was seen in Leicester having photos taken with fans, wonder what happened

Yeah he was at WR watching his new team place. We just didn't realise that it was Wasps

Agree with Sam that it'd be a blow for Tigers, I'd got quite excited at the prospect of him signing.

Why would you be surprised Denton turned you down? Maybe he was waiting for a better opportunity?

Bath are possibly a better attraction than Tigers at the minute imo. They seem to be a club on the rise with Tigers in a bit of a rut by their own standards.

Off the field, I know which city I'd rather live in.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why would you be surprised Denton turned you down? Maybe he was waiting for a better opportunity?

Bath are possibly a better attraction than Tigers at the minute imo. They seem to be a club on the rise with Tigers in a bit of a rut by their own standards.

Off the field, I know which city I'd rather live in.

Who are you talking to? Rdw said he was surprised, not a tigers fan?

Sam is a Tigers fan isn't he?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Sam is a Tigers fan isn't he?

Sam said he would be surprised if we approached Denton, not he was surprised Denton turned us down.

nathan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Sam is a Tigers fan isn't he?

Sam said he would be surprised if we approached Denton, not he was surprised Denton turned us down.

For Denton to turn you down, surely an approach would have been made? Or has he just made it up?

Ignore me, I don't think I've drank enough!

To clarify. Denton would not suit our style of 8 and would have probably been deployed on the flank hence he would have been best advised not to sign for us (Bath have bigger pockets too).

He wouldn't have been a player I'd have been thrilled about us signing as he doesn't fill a gap as it were. He'd have only been of use to us as replacement for Croft as soon as Croft and the club reached a deal we wouldn't have needed him, we had the more versatile Williams signed up and three 8s on the books already.

You're presuming a lot there Sam. Denton was fantastic in the WC and comfortably better than your other 8's, he'd have been a great addition imo.

He was poor in the six nations previously though. The eights at Tigers are expected to carry into the tight exchange and get through a lot of defensive work. That's not where Denton excels. At Bath he'll have Garvey doing the hard yards and big tackles and Denton can get out and go rampaging in the loose like he did in the RWC for Scotland.

I think you're being harsh on Denton. He makes hard yards and is a strong defender, good at the breakdown too. He's much better than your other options but he obviously had other ideas.