The Ireland Squad Announcement Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the discussion on the 'Ireland 2016 Squad' thread which can be found here.

Ireland squad has been announced. It contains four uncapped players- Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane, Josh van der Flier and CJ Stander. However there is no room for Garry Ringrose. Mike Ross, Cian Healy and Chris Henry have all been omitted due to injury but may feature later as they return to fitness in their provincial set-ups.

Ireland Squad RBS 6 Nations 2016 Rounds 1 & 2

Forwards (19)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)*
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
Nathan White (Connacht)

Backs (16)

Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Stuart McCloskey (McCloskey/Ulster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster)

*Denotes uncapped player

[LeinsterFan4life]

Whatever it is it isn't a surprise.

Predictable, tedious, wrong but not a surprise - same goes for the Kearneys returning

Very much Geoff, I mean the Kearneys ??? What the hell do you have to do to get off this Irish side because as far as I can see the Kearndassions have been trying their utmost to play themselves off the team?

Dave Kearney has been playing well for Leinster since Christmas tbf but Rob Kearney shouldn't be in the squad let alone the starting 15. I certainly wouldn't be expecting us to score many tries here, very negative team selection.

[Pete330v2]

So it's Irish fans scratching their heads and French fans rubbing their hands.

Advantage France

Kearneys?????????????

[JmD]

Leinster Leinster Leinster. Sure what's the point of form or playing well during the year? Awful stuff. On the verge of saying Schmidt out.

[Golden]

McFadden is going to be a busy man he is on the bench for Leinster as well !!

Also I do not like to denigrate players but his selection is a farce and I have to say the bias towards Leinster is starting to become totally unacceptable

With Bowe, Zebo and Earls not fit, its between Gilroy Healy and McFadden. Only one of those has been involved regularly in Irish camps under Joe. Id agree its not a form pick but we all know how much he values players knowing the systems.

[carpet baboon]

I'm still confused.

[GunsGerms]

McFadden is going to be a busy man he is on the bench for Leinster as well !!

Also I do not like to denigrate players but his selection is a farce and I have to say the bias towards Leinster is starting to become totally unacceptable

With Bowe, Zebo and Earls not fit, its between Gilroy Healy and McFadden.  Only one of those has been involved regularly in Irish camps under Joe. Id agree its not a form pick but we all know how much he values players knowing the systems.

He is a very experienced player. 30 caps vs Gilroy's 6 and Healy's 0. I know who I would draft in mid tournament. That said I think Gilroy is probably the best player but probably not the best option mid tournament.

[rodders]

McFadden is going to be a busy man he is on the bench for Leinster as well !!

Also I do not like to denigrate players but his selection is a farce and I have to say the bias towards Leinster is starting to become totally unacceptable

With Bowe, Zebo and Earls not fit, its between Gilroy Healy and McFadden.  Only one of those has been involved regularly in Irish camps under Joe. Id agree its not a form pick but we all know how much he values players knowing the systems.

He is a very experienced player. 30 caps vs Gilroy's 6 and Healy's 0. I know who I would draft in mid tournament. That said I think Gilroy is probably the best player but probably not the best option mid tournament.

I agree - he's still bloody useless though.

[GunsGerms]

Leinster Leinster Leinster. Sure what's the point of form or playing well during the year? Awful stuff. On the verge of saying Schmidt out.

5 Leinster players
5 Munster players
3 Ulster players
2 Connacht players.

That's what started v Wales. Probably the biggest game of the championship.

JmD why don't you just not support Ireland if you care so much where players are from? They are all Irish or Irish qualified. That's all that matters, that and the fact that we can still win the championship.

[GunsGerms]

I agree - he's still bloody useless though.

Lots of people thought the team Schmidt put out against Wales was useless. You don't get 9 tries in 29 tests if you are useless anyway.

[geoff999rugby]

McFadden is going to be a busy man he is on the bench for Leinster as well !!

Also I do not like to denigrate players but his selection is a farce and I have to say the bias towards Leinster is starting to become totally unacceptable

With Bowe, Zebo and Earls not fit, its between Gilroy Healy and McFadden.  Only one of those has been involved regularly in Irish camps under Joe. Id agree its not a form pick but we all know how much he values players knowing the systems.

Alternatively you could have the form 12 playing 12, a natural 13 playing 13, the best 15 playing 15 and R. Kearney on the bench.
But that would mean neither Kearney playing and doesn't compute

[Peter Stringer]

If Kidney had picked this team the Internet would break. Bit of finger wagging but nothing more from the Schmidt apologists. Ger Earls remains uncapped. Disgraceful.

[GunsGerms]

If Kidney had picked this team the Internet would break. Bit of finger wagging but nothing more from the Schmidt apologists. Ger Earls remains uncapped. Disgraceful.

The difference is after the grand slam Kidney's Ireland were regularly coming 3rd (three times) or worse (5th in his last season) in the six nations.

Schmidt has two first places from two and you aren't happy? I wonder why.

If Ireland come third three times in a row and then 5th under Schmidt Ill start to complain too.

[asoreleftshoulder]

If Kidney had picked this team the Internet would break. Bit of finger wagging but nothing more from the Schmidt apologists. Ger Earls remains uncapped. Disgraceful.

You are the best thing to happen to this site in my time on it,keep up the good work.

[geoff999rugby]

Yep so out of left field and absurb to actually be, slightly, funny.

[Notch]

So it's Irish fans scratching their heads and French fans rubbing their hands.

Advantage France

Kearneys?????????????

I think the logic of this selection is very self-evident. France have named a back three full of flair but bad positionally, bad under the high ball. We'll be turning them and then the Kearneys excellence under the high ball will hopefully set up us up in some really good attacking positions. Negative? Kicking long to this back three would be, and counter-productive given their counter-attacking ability. Kicking short, retrieving the ball can actually be very positive because the French defensive line will have to scramble back and reset. I can see this selection really opening up some chances for us.

I don't see a running game exploiting French weaknesses as much as a very targeted, accurate short kicking game and I don't see us keeping the ball in hand leading to as many chances to score tries this week as kicking, so I have to admit I'm a bit baffled at those calling this a negative selection. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll just belt it long all day- I hope thats not the case. But people seem to be looking at players as individuals and making a judgment as opposed to trying to guess at what we're going to do as a team. Schmidt obviously doesn't just pick the 15 players in best form, he has very specific game plans and picks players to execute those plans. People don't seem to accept this and judge the team as 15 individuals in a vacuum. It's an interesting and confusing fact of life on these forums.

[geoff999rugby]

I can't - as said above picked to be hard to beat not to win.

The thing you get from the Kearneys is aimless kicking - so your right it could open up but for the French.

Don't get me wrong this winnable but I think we are off the pace and the draw against Wales was a good result - for me it
is England or Wales as champions.

[Notch]

I can't - as said above picked to be hard to beat not to win.

The thing you get from the Kearneys is aimless kicking - so your right it could open up but for the French.

I think thats a pretty questionable viewpoint given the number of tries in the last few years that have directly come off planned moves involving kicking, and both Kearneys roles in executing the kicking game successfully in that time period. I would say we are a lot more threatening off retrieved kicks than in general play.

When you look at this French team, their selection, their tactics- we just shouldn't be losing to them. Lot of really classy individuals, but not well organised and a lot of weaknesses for us to attack. For me there is a clear gulf in class; last week I wouldn't have been happy with a defeat, but would have accepted it was the likely outcome before the game. Thought the coaches played a blinder. This game we should definitely, definitely be winning.

My big worry is the scrum- scrum penalties could change the momentum of the game.

[GunsGerms]

I can't - as said above picked to be hard to beat not to win.

The thing you get from the Kearneys is aimless kicking - so your right it could open up but for the French.

Don't get me wrong this winnable but I think we are off the pace and the draw against Wales was a good result - for me it
is England or Wales as champions.

Any reason why? England weren't particularly impressive v Scotland and Wales evidently are no better nor worse that Ireland.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yep so out of left field and absurb to actually be, slightly, funny.

He's more than slightly funny he's hilarious.It's a parody accout.

[GunsGerms]

Yep so out of left field and absurb to actually be, slightly, funny.

He's more than slightly funny he's hilarious.It's a parody accout.

The funny thing is its very close to reality.

[Notch]

The funny thing is its very close to reality.

Hence why its so brilliant.

[JmD]

Leinster Leinster Leinster. Sure what's the point of form or playing well during the year? Awful stuff. On the verge of saying Schmidt out.

5 Leinster players
5 Munster players
3 Ulster players
2 Connacht players.

That's what started v Wales. Probably the biggest game of the championship.

JmD why don't you just not support Ireland if you care so much where players are from? They are all Irish or Irish qualified. That's all that matters, that and the fact that we can still win the championship.

Have you considered the fact that being an Irish fan, I want to see Ireland pick the best players and play the best game that they can? Unfortunately that isn't possible when out of form Leinster players inevitably get the call despite all conventional logic says otherwise. I mean for god's sake; the best player in the country this year is sitting at home on his sofa while Fergus McFadden and Dave Kearney get parachuted in. This selection is practically beyond satire.

[theslosty]

France have named a massive pack but if we can keep the scrum steady we should have the beating of them. Glad that Ben Arous isn't starting as he caused us a lot of trouble in the world cup game.

Ireland are at 5/4 in some places which looks really good value.

[Notch]

Have you considered the fact that being an Irish fan, I want to see Ireland pick the best players and play the best game that they can? Unfortunately that isn't possible when out of form Leinster players inevitably get the call despite all conventional logic says otherwise. I mean for god's sake; the best player in the country this year is sitting at home on his sofa while Fergus McFadden and Dave Kearney get parachuted in. This selection is practically beyond satire.

So thats the crucial difference; being an Irish fan I want to see the best team not the best players. When those two things are the same, great. My five favourite foods are broccoli, pesto, cheese, maple syrup and chocolate but as much as I like the last two I tend not to mix them directly with the first three. Making a nice recipe isn't about throwing the best ingredients into a pan and rugby isn't about that either.

The Ireland team is no longer a compromise selection based on the form of the provinces selected by committee. The game plan and philosophy comes first and then players are selected for it. You select specific tools for a specific job. Individual brilliance matters little in a philosophy which is totally focused on teamwork, accuracy and preparation. I support that philosophy because it is a winning philosophy, and I remember well the years under Eddie when Ireland played by far the best rugby in the tournament but couldn't seal the deal- those days were a pile of shoite. Heartbreak ever year. I want to win at all costs and when I see some personal favourite of mine not get picked like Paddy Jackson, I no longer care about it. If he is as good as I truly think he is he will force his way in and these frustrations will help make him as a player. Having said that, I think that the players everyone is so up in arms about missing out (like Paddy) will be integrated over time and the protests we play 'conservative' rugby don't stand up to analysis. We are creating line breaks, we are seeing variations in attack; our basic skills have a long way to go and our ruthlessness does too but this needs to be worked on right down to Academy and sub-Academy level.

As for the selections, I think there is some extremely obvious conventional logic supporting them and I'm hardly some rugby genius; nothing could be further from the truth. So I don't know what that is about. You might not accept that logic, but denying that it exists is just plain weird.

The truth is, we won the Grand Slam and some people had a go at Kidney over selection and tactics. We won back to back championships and we're still in with a shot at a third championship and people are still having a go at Schmidt. Even the best coaches have a shelf life of course, but you just have to wonder whats going to be considered good enough at this point. I'd say there's two camps; some people just enjoy moaning and some people just see certain players through rose-tinted glasses. Obviously players are never better than when they aren't playing and the more they don't play, the bigger their reputation grows on here!

[GunsGerms]

Have you considered the fact that being an Irish fan, I want to see Ireland pick the best players and play the best game that they can? Unfortunately that isn't possible when out of form Leinster players inevitably get the call despite all conventional logic says otherwise. I mean for god's sake; the best player in the country this year is sitting at home on his sofa while Fergus McFadden and Dave Kearney get parachuted in. This selection is practically beyond satire.

You want the players to be picked that you think are the best players. You aren't the coach so its irrelevant. Whinging about it wont change that. You have a choice to not support Ireland.

There is plenty of logic behind picking experience and proven international track record over inexperience mid-tournament in a year where we have a chance to be the first team ever to win three in a row.

It is also a year where we need a high ranking for world cup seeding by year end. In the same year we play England and France away, SA away three times and NZ twice and you think it is logical to pick inexperienced players?

We are 1 year into a 4 year world cup cycle. There is plenty of time for messing around next year.

[GunsGerms]

Exactly Notch. All I care is that we win or come close by playing well organised well coached rugby as a team.

I couldn't care less if Jimmy from the local parish is playing.

[JmD]

Have you considered the fact that being an Irish fan, I want to see Ireland pick the best players and play the best game that they can? Unfortunately that isn't possible when out of form Leinster players inevitably get the call despite all conventional logic says otherwise. I mean for god's sake; the best player in the country this year is sitting at home on his sofa while Fergus McFadden and Dave Kearney get parachuted in. This selection is practically beyond satire.

You want the players to be picked that you think are the best players. You aren't the coach so its irrelevant. Whinging about it wont change that. You have a choice to not support Ireland.

There is plenty of logic behind picking experience and proven international track record over inexperience mid-tournament in a year where we have a chance to be the first team ever to win three in a row.

It is also a year where we need a high ranking for world cup seeding by year end. In the same year we play England and France away, SA away three times and NZ twice and you think it is logical to pick inexperienced players?

We are 1 year into a 4 year world cup cycle. There is plenty of time for messing around next year.

Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think that Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden give us the best chance of winning?

[JmD]

Semantics Notch, obviously when I say the best players I mean the best team.

The problem with winning is that it papers over the cracks. Nobody stops to ask, "Could we have done better?". We didn't deserve to win the 6N last year, England did. We lucked out with a couple of crazy French tries on the final day.

[GunsGerms]

Have you considered the fact that being an Irish fan, I want to see Ireland pick the best players and play the best game that they can? Unfortunately that isn't possible when out of form Leinster players inevitably get the call despite all conventional logic says otherwise. I mean for god's sake; the best player in the country this year is sitting at home on his sofa while Fergus McFadden and Dave Kearney get parachuted in. This selection is practically beyond satire.

You want the players to be picked that you think are the best players. You aren't the coach so its irrelevant. Whinging about it wont change that. You have a choice to not support Ireland.

There is plenty of logic behind picking experience and proven international track record over inexperience mid-tournament in a year where we have a chance to be the first team ever to win three in a row.

It is also a year where we need a high ranking for world cup seeding by year end. In the same year we play England and France away, SA away three times and NZ twice and you think it is logical to pick inexperienced players?

We are 1 year into a 4 year world cup cycle. There is plenty of time for messing around next year.

Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think that Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden give us the best chance of winning?

Yes. They have a proved track record of winning things under Schmidt.

[Sin é]

Gwan Clongowes!

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think that the onus is on Schmidt to win this game rather convincingly. He will be severely criticised if this team does not perform. This is an exceedingly conservative selection and I hope that it pays off. Of course he has a game plan in mind that he wishes to implement and obviously believes that this team are the best to carry it through, but there has to be a point where you look at the players most likely to cause the opposition problems and create/score tries. I have little doubt that many of these players would integrate into the team and learn the systems with no problems.

I am not that confident with this team to be quite honest. I hope that my nerves are put at ease come Saturday.

[Peter Stringer]

If Kidney had picked this team the Internet would break. Bit of finger wagging but nothing more from the Schmidt apologists. Ger Earls remains uncapped. Disgraceful.

The difference is after the grand slam Kidney's Ireland were regularly coming 3rd (three times) or worse (5th in his last season) in the six nations.

Schmidt has two first places from two and you aren't happy? I wonder why.

If Ireland come third three times in a row and then 5th under Schmidt Ill start to complain too.

Kidney won a Grand Slam. Schmidt has utterly failed. He hasn't won the Six Nations outright, only by points difference, ie, joint winners. It's a tainted championship and doesn't count in my book. You are relying on the erratic boot of someone like Sexton for us to win by a few measly points. It's a shame ROG wasn't playing. If you are happy feasting from the rotting scraps from Schmidt's table of failures go ahead. Id prefer the immortality of a Grand Slam.

Also, where is he appreciation from Ulster fans for Kidney for turning Kiss into your saviour? Kidney is responsible for your upturn in fortune. If Kidney never appointed him and didn't teach him all the skills he knows then Ulster would never have appointed him. It wouldn't be a bad idea to say thanks to Kidney for it.

[JmD]

Have you considered the fact that being an Irish fan, I want to see Ireland pick the best players and play the best game that they can? Unfortunately that isn't possible when out of form Leinster players inevitably get the call despite all conventional logic says otherwise. I mean for god's sake; the best player in the country this year is sitting at home on his sofa while Fergus McFadden and Dave Kearney get parachuted in. This selection is practically beyond satire.

You want the players to be picked that you think are the best players. You aren't the coach so its irrelevant. Whinging about it wont change that. You have a choice to not support Ireland.

There is plenty of logic behind picking experience and proven international track record over inexperience mid-tournament in a year where we have a chance to be the first team ever to win three in a row.

It is also a year where we need a high ranking for world cup seeding by year end. In the same year we play England and France away, SA away three times and NZ twice and you think it is logical to pick inexperienced players?

We are 1 year into a 4 year world cup cycle. There is plenty of time for messing around next year.

Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think that Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden give us the best chance of winning?

Yes. They have a proved track record of winning things under Schmidt.

If you genuinely believe that, then it's safe to say we'll never see eye to eye. Please understand that I am a very passionate Irish fan. I just have different opinions on how Ireland should play than you do. Don't be offended my opinions and tell me to support someone else.

[Peter Stringer]

Leinster Leinster Leinster. Sure what's the point of form or playing well during the year? Awful stuff. On the verge of saying Schmidt out.

5 Leinster players
5 Munster players
3 Ulster players
2 Connacht players.

That's what started v Wales. Probably the biggest game of the championship.

JmD why don't you just not support Ireland if you care so much where players are from? They are all Irish or Irish qualified. That's all that matters, that and the fact that we can still win the championship.

Have you considered the fact that being an Irish fan, I want to see Ireland pick the best players and play the best game that they can? Unfortunately that isn't possible when out of form Leinster players inevitably get the call despite all conventional logic says otherwise. I mean for god's sake; the best player in the country this year is sitting at home on his sofa while Fergus McFadden and Dave Kearney get parachuted in. This selection is practically beyond satire.

.

Dave Kearney is a Schmidt type of player. He can't handle flair and individuality. Just ask Carlos Spenser, Simon Zebo or Dave Kilcoyne.

All Schmidt wants are robots in his side and blow up dolls in the press who can perform verbal fellatio on him for every decision he makes. Someone should tell Horgan and company in RTE that all the praise they gave Schmidt during the World Cup meant he blew his beans after the France match. When Kidney lost in a World Cup QF people wanted him flayed by Ramsey Bolton. It's so unjust.

[Notch]

Semantics Notch, obviously when I say the best players I mean the best team.

The problem with winning is that it papers over the cracks. Nobody stops to ask, "Could we have done better?". We didn't deserve to win the 6N last year, England did. We lucked out with a couple of crazy French tries on the final day.

But it's not semantics, because the best team does not necessarily consist of the best players. You say it papers over the cracks, but the vibe I get is that the coaches and players desperately want to continue to improve and to win more trophies, and do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. So saying 'Schmidt out' just seems... insane to me. Utterly insane. Especially if its based on just two or three selection calls.

[JmD]

Semantics Notch, obviously when I say the best players I mean the best team.

The problem with winning is that it papers over the cracks. Nobody stops to ask, "Could we have done better?". We didn't deserve to win the 6N last year, England did. We lucked out with a couple of crazy French tries on the final day.

But it's not semantics, because the best team does not necessarily consist of the best players. You say it papers over the cracks, but the vibe I get is that the coaches and players desperately want to continue to improve and to win more trophies, and do whatever it takes to achieve that goal.

It is semantics because I thought it was clear that the best team is what I meant.

The problem with that second statement is Ireland haven't made any obvious improvements since the 2014 tournament. We stumbled our way to the 2015 title, then crashed and burned in the World Cup. I see a team that is regressing and a coach unwilling to make the changes necessary to rectify the issues.

[Notch]

I would say if the team was selected by a committee then McFadden and Kearney aren't the best players in their position, aren't the form players either.

But let's remember;

a) It's taken injuries to Luke Fitzgerald, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls AND Tommy Bowe to get them into the 23. It's not like they have been fast tracked into team, they are legitimately viewed as fifth/sixth choice by the coaches at present. Literally the only other winger in Ireland who might have realistically entered into the equation is Craig Gilroy. Gilroy has been included in plenty of training camps under Schmidt and hasn't impressed enough to get picked- for me he's a player who hasn't managed to kick on and improve enough from his international debut. He tends to go missing in games a bit even for Ulster.
b) They are being picked to implement a very specific game plan, elements of which they are already very familiar with from their time at Leinster
c) Given preparation time, getting defence right is more important than attack and they are extremely well versed in the ways Schmidts teams defend. This is particularly true of McFadden coming in who didn't make the initial squad and has to slot in with little preparation time.

I just can't understand why people are upset. The reaction is completely out of proportion with whats actually happened.

[Notch]

Really? We haven't improved enough in the one game since the World Cup? We stumbled our way to beating everyone but a very resolute and high-quality Wales team who were extremely unlucky to lose to Australia and South Africa. What on earth are your expectations? What other coach can possibly realise them?

In all honesty I'm expecting us to now go backwards a little bit before we can go forwards again, just due to injuries in the tight five and losing O'Connell. Let's face the facts- we're still pretty reliant on a few key players and their absence damaged us badly in the World Cup. The game against Argentina was still bad though. Schmidt has had 28 games, I've watched, analysed and ruminated over them all and that was the only game were I have felt there were very serious legitimate questions over the tactical approach. The way we defended was just not suitable for the team we were up against. But still- thats one game. In twenty-eight. Were our tactics were exposed. That is extremely impressive!

We played a blinder tactically against Wales, shutting down their dangerous wingers with a perfectly executed drift defence, engineering seven line breaks to their 0, and getting into a 13-0 lead. Unfortunately some individual errors in terms of poor clearing kicks and a stupid kick out on the full lead to them getting a foothold and they exploited our weakness at tight head.to get a try which changed the momentum of the game. Hard to make a tight head in a week but we carried some passengers in the tight five and survived. Think the tight five will cost us this Championship but again I was amazed at the coaches ability to minimise our weaknesses and maximise our strengths. Before the game I heard this team described as the single worst Irish XV to take the field in 15 years and they had a level of tactical coherency we would have absolutely killed for in, say, 2012. They were much more than the sum of their parts.

What I would say needs work is our handling and decision making after the break, our scrummaging, and we had some very loose kicking from Zebo and Madigan when he came on which handed them momentum back. I think those will cost us this championship. Actually making seven line breaks is great against a defence like Wales', but we didn't finish those opportunities off. You have to take them at this level- and England and France could give Nathan White a really hard time. The latter is much less a coaching issue than an injury issue, unfortunately, but thats rugby. All in all, though, we were coached to nearly winning a game I thought could be an embarrassing thumping for us when I saw the respective team sheets.

I just can't see where the doom and gloom is coming from. Obviously we don't have the depth in certain positions, but even that is getting better with the likes of Paddy Jackson and Tadhg Furlong coming through. Sexton or Ross going down is no longer a total death sentence to our hopes. I'm slightly frustrated by the persistence with Madigan, Paddy still isn't at Sextons level when it comes to kicking from hand but Madigan can be terrible at it, but all in all its a very rosy period for the national team.

[JmD]

I said we haven't improved since the 2014 6 Nations, not the World Cup.

On what planet did we pay a blinder? We drew against Wales at home. Yes, our tight 5 is weak, and ultimately the lack the of strength in the second row will probably hold us back from winning the tournament. The fact remains that there are many great backs who have been left in the cold who could, in all likelihood, improve the team immensely. Schmidt's selection policy needs to come under serious scrutiny.

Luckily for Schmidt, the French team is probably the worst I've ever seen. Any half interested side would steamroll them.

[Notch]

I said we haven't improved since the 2014 6 Nations, not the World Cup.

On what planet did we pay a blinder? We drew against Wales at home. Yes, our tight 5 is weak, and ultimately the lack the of strength in the second row will probably hold us back from winning the tournament. The fact remains that there are many great backs who have been left in the cold who could, in all likelihood, improve the team immensely. Schmidt's selection policy needs to come under serious scrutiny.

Luckily for Schmidt, the French team is probably the worst I've ever seen. Any half interested side would steamroll them.

I thought tactically we were set up damn near perfectly. Totally nullified their entire back line, gave them very little and honestly I think we should have dominated the penalty count- time after time we came through the middle legally, got hands on the ball and they were allowed to hold on. I felt we were superb at the breakdown and if we had gotten the penalties we earned it would have totally changed the momentum of the game. I can't see us drawing that game with a more sympathetic ref but... c'est la vie. We've won plenty of games by knowing how to exploit the refs blindspots, and fair play to Wales for doing an 'Ireland' in that respect.

You say left in the cold, but again- I really don't see any backs that are left in the cold apart from Gilroy. You have Jackson, McCloskey and Marshall all in the squad and all running in the first team in training. Will not be long until they dislodge the incumbents. That is left in the cold? I think they have tweaks in their game that need to be made. Jackson looks better at Pro12 level than test level because with Pro12 defences he is allowed to play a running dominated game and he's the best running, passing 10 in Ireland. But when defences take away his options his kicking is just that bit less accurate and more predictable than Sextons and defences at this level will take away his options. I think we've seen that a few times against Saracens, who are a level up from other club sides in terms of defence- they have a test standard defence. I'm pretty certain he's the heir in waiting as far as the 10 shirt goes and will continue to improve; I think he ultimately has an even higher ceiling than Sexton. McCloskey has all the ingredients and just needs to work on some of his decision making skills; he sometimes throws the offload when its not on, tries to crash it up when the offload is on, goes for the choke tackle when he should go low etc. These are very minor criticisms but they matter at this level. Again, I have no doubt that these things will be ironed out and he will be capped sooner rather than later. The point is; they are not outside looking in. Schmidt has them right in the mix, competing for spots and that will bring them on as players as much as playing for Ulster will.

As for them magically making a big difference to our attack- I really, really, really think that is the archetypal example of the grass always being greener on the other side. For me thats very wishful thinking that comes out of underestimating how much tighter defences are at this level than the ones we see them against every week. You say the selection should come under the lens but remember, the system is going to be the same whoever starts. And you can have no doubt that if Schmidt felt an all-singing, all-dancing offloading game played to this groups strengths we'd be doing it.

The only really contentious thing for me is Schmist has Madigan covering 10 for his versatility but what happens if Sexton goes off after five minutes? Madigan is probably even worse than Jackson in terms of tactical kicking. I suppose Payne becomes very important then as a second kicker in the back line but he's no second five-eighth. That for me is the major weakness in our selection. I just don't rate Madigan.

I would have been pretty happy for McCloskey to start this week because I feel like the French defence is less organised than the Welsh defence but... six of one half a dozen of the other there I think.

[Engine#4]

Selection debates are always interesting but "Leinster bias" my left foot.  This is the man who ended Gordon D'Arcy's international career.  How many 50/50 selection decisions went the way of a Leinster player last week?

Of the 3 most moaned about selection calls last week;

1. "PJ is the form flyhalf and should start ahead of Sexton (who was fairly excellent vs Bath and the Ospreys opposite Biggar)

Result - Sexton was imperious in attack, defence and from the tee. Several searing breaks, generally bolshie and put a stop to Warburton whispering sweet nothings in Garces' ear.

2.  "Heaslip should be dropped, not needed with Stander eligible"

Result - 18 tackles, 3 turnovers, 5 more metres off 8 less carries than the man of the match.

3.  "Zebo?!?"

Result - Excellent in attack, great lines. A little shaky in defence admittedly but ultimately did not cost the team.  Some of his play could have resulted in scores.

I'll reserve judgement until after the game.  Rob Kearney in particular tends to hit top form in big games just when he has been written off by most of the province or country.

[JmD]

I don't think there's been any indication that Jackson, McCloskey et al will get a look in. From the other forum, apparently there was a Q&A at Ravenhill last night with Olding, Touhy and Henderson (maybe more). According to them, Schmidt doesn't trust Jackson's kicking (despite being excellent this year), Payne will never be selected at 15 for Ireland, and McCloskey is an animal in training and it's beyond them why he doesn't get selected.

[Sin é]

Selection debates are always interesting but "Leinster bias" my left foot.  This is the man who ended Gordon D'Arcy's international career.  How many 50/50 selection decisions went the way of a Leinster player last week?

Of the 3 most moaned about selection calls last week;

1. "PJ is the form flyhalf and should start ahead of Sexton (who was fairly excellent vs Bath and the Ospreys opposite Biggar)

Result - Sexton was imperious in attack, defence and from the tee. Several searing breaks, generally bolshie and put a stop to Warburton whispering sweet nothings in Garces' ear.

2.  "Heaslip should be dropped, not needed with Stander eligible"

Result - 18 tackles, 3 turnovers, 5 more metres off 8 less carries than the man of the match.

3.  "Zebo?!?"

Result - Excellent in attack, great lines. A little shaky in defence admittedly but ultimately did not cost the team.  Some of his play could have resulted in scores.

I'll reserve judgement until after the game.  Rob Kearney in particular tends to hit top form in big games just when he has been written off by most of the province or country.

Do you not think that as a senior player, Heaslip should be dropped for needing to have someone to challenge him to get the finger out?

As for Standers - maybe you should mention that he had a linebreak, stole a lineout and beat a defender if you are going to trot out a metres carried stat which most consisted of one carry out on the wing!

[Engine#4]

Certainly, if the coaches think he is not up to it. As it happened they ignored the wisdom of the public and he justified his selection.    

Delighted Stander had such a good game and was justly recognised. Considering the amount of fans who notice when Heaslip is not playing well I don't think he got the credit his performance deserved.

[Peter Stringer]

Selection debates are always interesting but "Leinster bias" my left foot.  This is the man who ended Gordon D'Arcy's international career.  How many 50/50 selection decisions went the way of a Leinster player last week?

Of the 3 most moaned about selection calls last week;

1. "PJ is the form flyhalf and should start ahead of Sexton (who was fairly excellent vs Bath and the Ospreys opposite Biggar)

Result - Sexton was imperious in attack, defence and from the tee. Several searing breaks, generally bolshie and put a stop to Warburton whispering sweet nothings in Garces' ear.

2.  "Heaslip should be dropped, not needed with Stander eligible"

Result - 18 tackles, 3 turnovers, 5 more metres off 8 less carries than the man of the match.

3.  "Zebo?!?"

Result - Excellent in attack, great lines. A little shaky in defence admittedly but ultimately did not cost the team.  Some of his play could have resulted in scores.

I'll reserve judgement until after the game.  Rob Kearney in particular tends to hit top form in big games just when he has been written off by most of the province or country.

Do you not think that as a senior player, Heaslip should be dropped for needing to have someone to challenge him to get the finger out?

As for Standers - maybe you should mention that he had a linebreak, stole a lineout and beat a defender if you are going to trot out a metres carried stat which most consisted of one carry out on the wing!

You never had that problem with Dennis Leamy.

[Notch]

I don't think there's been any indication that Jackson, McCloskey et al will get a look in. From the other forum, apparently there was a Q&A at Ravenhill last night with Olding, Touhy and Henderson (maybe more). According to them, Schmidt doesn't trust Jackson's kicking (despite being excellent this year), Payne will never be selected at 15 for Ireland, and McCloskey is an animal in training and it's beyond them why he doesn't get selected.

What do you mean there hasn't been any indication they'll get a look in? The first week of training they were both given chances to run in the first team and they are pushing the incumbents hard. You can't say any fairer than that. It's not like they are literally 'out in the cold'. Schmidt has them in camp, giving them opportunities to understudy the players, run with the first team learn the roles and push for selection. The fact that he doesn't instantly change the team on a whim has you out for his head? Surely you can see this is ridiculous. This isn't like Eddie O'Sullivan where players didn't think they would get a fair shot and the 15 is set in stone. He very much has a squad approach with very detailed feedback for the players not in the team about what they need to do and if they do it they can force their way in- look at what happened with Andrew Trimble.

As for the Q&A, I pretty much agree with Schmidt on the first two points; Jackson has really worked hard to improve his kicking but needs to keep it up- in the past he hasn't done well off the tee for Ireland and its fair that he hasn't been trusted, but by the same token I have no doubt his improvement this season will have been duly noted. I don't think thats unfair at all. Whats important is he has a few more games like the one against Oyonnax away where he just nails everything, and his confidence will grow in tandem with the confidence his coaches have in him. Still think Madigan is a more reliable place kicker at present though.

Payne will likely never play 15 and probably shouldn't because we simply don't have anyone as good as him at organising the defence from 13, he is very much the glue that holds the back line together and his absence against Argentina was absolutely pivotal in our poor performance there- probably only losing Sexton was more detrimental to our chances and when you consider we also lost O'Connell and O'Brien that is saying a lot. Also, I feel that Payne makes poor decisions sometimes in counter-attacking situations with regards to kicking. He is far too fond of the high percentage chip kick and grubber which rarely comes off. This is what turned the ball over for us at the end of the game at the weekend, its also what cost us a try against Canada and there are many more examples of this for Ireland and Ulster. He'd be in those situations more often at 15. He adds a lot of class to that area as well, he has one of the best rugby brains around and when given time on the ball he can really bring other guys into the game and dictate play- but he doesn't quite have the out and out pace when hitting the line I think Schmidt likes. Again, this isn't shown up when he plays there for Ulster because theres just so much more space on the field at that much, much lower level of the game. I can certainly see why Zebo is preferred at 15. I'm actually a big fan of Zebo at 15, but against Wales he had a poor game in terms of making some brain dead errors- like kicking out on the full which was hugely costly at that point in the game. Just when we needed to be ruthless and starve them of territory to turn around at half time more than a score ahead, he rolled out the red carpet for them in our 22 and the momentum swung. If Kearney was dropped and Zebo dropped, I would definitely drop Henshaw back to 15 long before I'd move Payne. Lots more options at 12 than 13.

As for McCloskey, he is a monster and he will be picked eventually. He still has work-ons in his game though. For Ulster I feel like the fact he can physically dominate the gainline and cause all sorts of problems to defences covers up some of the bad things he does. Again, errors are often forgiven at Pro12 level. There are many more errors in even good Pro12 games than we would want to see in Ireland. McCloskey has a tendency to overuse the choke tackle and his judgment of when to hold onto the ball and when to give the offload is still maturing. These are minor issues that will improve with good coaching, and he has good coaches at provincial and international level. We're also talking about a settled combination in Henshaw and Payne which has been really, really good for us so you have to be really, really good to break it up. My personal hope is that McCloskey and Jackson will start one or two games each in the back five tests of the season- Italy, Scotland and South Africa x3.

As far as the rest of the tournament goes, I think we have to try and grind out two ugly away wins by means fair or foul at the Stade de France and Twickenham (and when I say I don't mind winning ugly, I mean I REALLY don't mind winning ugly in these games, like, I don't care if the centres don't touch the ball so long as we win winning ugly- whatever works) and then we have to do a 180-degree turnaround, open up, keep the ball in hand and try and rack up the points difference in our two remaining home games. We have to beat Italy and Scotland comprehensively so that will necessitate a change in approach and it will be interesting to see what the selection is like. On the other hand, if we lose to England or- god forbid- lose both games, we can experiment more knowing the title is gone.

Hopefully we are changing the mindset in the last two games for positive reasons and going after the points differential and not because we're out!

[RubyGuby]

Has Payne become your Brad Barritt ? And is fear of losing dictating selection over the "risk" of winning ?

[Notch]

I don't think Payne is comparable to Barritt because Payne can play attacking  rugby and does. He brings the players around him into the game. If our attacking game is deemed conservative, thats fair- this has nothing to do with the centres though. The conservative aspect of our attack, and when we struggle to break down defences, is when we go one pass out from the ruck, hit it up, recycle, one pass out from the ruck... Sometimes its the centres who are asked to hit it up but this is not a reflection on their abilities. Both Henshaw and Payne have a nice range of passing and offloading skills. This is more a general attacking trend as a team.

Also, I don't think there is any fear of losing, quite the opposite. I see a team which is determined to do whatever it takes to win. I think this team would sell all of their grannies to win. If they have to kick every ball they will, if they have to run every ball they will and they don't care what people think- most opinions are not informed opinions and I really think what fans say means nothing to them. They don't care about looking glamorous or individual brilliance, they just want to win in whatever way is most expedient.

The thing is, people say that teams that don't attack flamboyantly are afraid of losing but thats nonsense really. Were England or South Africa afraid of losing in 2003 and 2007? Were Munster afraid of losing in 2006 and 2008? A kicking game can be a very targeted, positive game plan to really hurt teams where they are most vulnerable and I think confusing that with 'fear to play' or 'fear to win' is silly. Play smart and play to your strengths. Best attacking side in the world is the All Blacks. They have the best skill set right across the team and are miles above the kind of dross we've all served up in the Six Nations. But if they need to kick every ball to win they will. They'll do whatever it takes. At heart, all the best sides are rugby pragmatists not rugby idealists.

[RubyGuby]

I don't think Payne is comparable to Barritt because Payne can play attacking  rugby and does. He brings the players around him into the game. If our attacking game is deemed conservative, thats fair- this has nothing to do with the centres though. The conservative aspect of our attack, and when we struggle to break down defences, is when we go one pass out from the ruck, hit it up, recycle, one pass out from the ruck... Sometimes its the centres who are asked to hit it up but this is not a reflection on their abilities. Both Henshaw and Payne have a nice range of passing and offloading skills. This is more a general attacking trend as a team.

Also, I don't think there is any fear of losing, quite the opposite. I see a team which is determined to do whatever it takes to win. I think this team would sell all of their grannies to win. If they have to kick every ball they will, if they have to run every ball they will and they don't care what people think- most opinions are not informed opinions and I really think what fans say means nothing to them. They don't care about looking glamorous or individual brilliance, they just want to win in whatever way is most expedient.

The thing is, people say that teams that don't attack flamboyantly are afraid of losing but thats nonsense really. Were England or South Africa afraid of losing in 2003 and 2007? Were Munster afraid of losing in 2006 and 2008? A kicking game can be a very targeted, positive game plan to really hurt teams where they are most vulnerable and I think confusing that with 'fear to play' is silly. Play smart and play to your strengths.

Ireland by 7-10pts on the weekend

[Rory_Gallagher]

Look, Schmidt can pick the 15 dullest players on the pitch and win the Championship and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I just don't think that this team is the best available to do the job, I really don't. I think Rob Kearney should absolutely be there simply because the kick chase is obviously going to be our main weapon and he is still the best available player under the high ball. The French back three will be exposed here. By that token I can also see why Gilroy wouldn't be considered in the back three as he isn't strong in this area.

However I still cannot see the justification for continuing to put square pegs in round holes when there is no longer a need. Nobody can justify the selection of Henshaw ahead of McCloskey at 12. Experience at test level is the only legitimate claim Henshaw has to the jersey, but McCloskey has played many more professional games at 12 including top European games (where he has been one of the star players). Henshaw came in with no experience in the position in a completely new makeshift midfield; in contrast McCloskey has experience playing alongside Payne. In fact I think that this is halting the development of Henshaw and it could be detrimental to his chances in his best position (13) considering the fact he is about to face huge competition in the face of Garry Ringrose. At this stage he may not get the opportunity to play at 13 before he arrives on the scene.

The evidence suggests that having Stuart McCloskey in the starting team would heavily influence the game and improve our attacking strategy. It is one change, but it is a very significant one and it would be naive to believe that one or two players cannot be the difference between a win and a loss. One example would be that without Jackson and McCloskey last weekend, Ulster would not have won the game. I can think of many examples where certain debutants have had a real impact on the game and I have no doubt that McCloskey would leave the same impression.

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