The Ireland Squad Announcement Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the discussion on the 'Ireland 2016 Squad' thread which can be found here.

Ireland squad has been announced. It contains four uncapped players- Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane, Josh van der Flier and CJ Stander. However there is no room for Garry Ringrose. Mike Ross, Cian Healy and Chris Henry have all been omitted due to injury but may feature later as they return to fitness in their provincial set-ups.

Ireland Squad RBS 6 Nations 2016 Rounds 1 & 2

Forwards (19)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)*
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
Nathan White (Connacht)

Backs (16)

Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Stuart McCloskey (McCloskey/Ulster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster)

*Denotes uncapped player

[Notch]

The evidence suggests that having Stuart McCloskey in the starting team would heavily influence the game and improve our attacking strategy. It is one change, but it is a very significant one and it would be naive to believe that one or two players cannot be the difference between a win and a loss. One example would be that without Jackson and McCloskey last weekend, Ulster would not have won the game. I can think of many examples where certain debutants have had a real impact on the game and I have no doubt that McCloskey would leave the same impression.

I really strongly disagree with this but its literally like banging my head against a brick wall at this stage. He's not going to make a big difference right away. Nearly everybody takes a few games to acclimatise at this level. He's going to mix the good with the bad at first. Thats natural.

To be fair I would have been quite happy to see him start this week and see Henshaw drop back to 15, but Henshaw and Payne have a superb relationship and I think you're massively overstating your case.

What I really want to see is Kearney challenging their wingers in the air. Vakatawa can absolutely shred us if we kick loosely to him, but he's come in directly from 7s. If we turn him and challenge him in the air I think we can get some change out of him and Kearney is our mist naturally gifted aerial fullback so I'm far from unhappy they went with him.

[Rory_Gallagher]

The evidence suggests that having Stuart McCloskey in the starting team would heavily influence the game and improve our attacking strategy. It is one change, but it is a very significant one and it would be naive to believe that one or two players cannot be the difference between a win and a loss. One example would be that without Jackson and McCloskey last weekend, Ulster would not have won the game. I can think of many examples where certain debutants have had a real impact on the game and I have no doubt that McCloskey would leave the same impression.

I really strongly disagree with this but its literally like banging my head against a brick wall at this stage. He's not going to make a big difference right away. Nearly everybody takes a few games to acclimatise at this level. He's going to mix the good with the bad at first. Thats natural.

To be fair I would have been quite happy to see him start this week and see Henshaw drop back to 15, but Henshaw and Payne have a superb relationship and I think you're massively overstating your case.

What I really want to see is Kearney challenging their wingers in the air. Vakatawa can absolutely shred us if we kick loosely to him, but he's come in directly from 7s. If we turn him and challenge him in the air I think we can get some change out of him and Kearney is our mist naturally gifted aerial fullback so I'm far from unhappy they went with him.

This is simply incorrect though. Would you like me to list you a few recent examples of debutants who have had a large impact on the game when they played? I'll start with an Irish one from a few years ago - Luke Marshall. We lost the game (you already know why we lost the game overall) but he made more line breaks in that game than we had seen in an entire season from the team.

There are many recent examples where debutants have shocked their opponents and vastly improved the attacking game of their respective teams. I would suggest you stop banging your head against the brick wall and either remember those games (some were high profile) or look for yourself.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I should also note that I wouldn't expect a perfect game from McCloskey and you are completely missing the point if you think that is what people are trying to portray. Some fans simply believe that a bit more inventiveness, power and pace in the midfield would improve things. This isn't rocket science, although some on here seem to be pretending they are experts on the matter.

Henshaw-Payne is not the best midfield partnership available to Ireland. It certainly was last season but it clearly isn't now. There are also legitimate reasons to believe that this is not the best 23 match squad for this particular game. But hey, like I said, if he wins the game convincingly I will happily concede that it worked and the experts can tell everyone they were right all along. I'll happily be enjoying the rest of my day knowing we got the win!

[JmD]

I wouldn't say Henshaw and Payne have any real relationship, certainly there's no chemistry there anyway. They don't link up or make breaks, the only thing they have going for them is being good at tackling, but I would hardly think McCloskey's tackling is weaker than Henshaw's. There is absolutely nothing to lose and a whole lot to gain by playing him there.

[Notch]

I wouldn't say Henshaw and Payne have any real relationship, certainly there's no chemistry there anyway.

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit speechless at this. I don't think we're going to agree on this, so hopefully you enjoy the game at the weekend and we get the right result

[Notch]

But hey, like I said, if he wins the game convincingly I will happily concede that it worked and the experts can tell everyone they were right all along. I'll happily be enjoying the rest of my day knowing we got the win!

Me too

This isn't rocket science, although some on here seem to be pretending they are experts on the matter.

Next time I decide to have an opinion and try my best to support it with well thought-out arguments I'll be sure to ask your permission first Rory boy! Wouldn't want to ruffle your feathers any more than I obviously already have

Seriously though, I'm not a rugby expert. Don't pretend to be. Never said I was. Don't particularly want to be! I have no desire to go through tapes meticulously deconstructing every single ruck involvement, pass or offload. Don't care to invest that amount of time in something I do for fun and to relax. The kind of rigorous analysis someone like Kinsella does does not appeal to me at all though I do read his articles with great interest. But I do keep my eyes and mind open and try my best to keep informed about what's going on. Sorry if thats a problem but the good news is, if it is a problem its a very easy problem to fix. Just step back from the keyboard and take three deep breaths my friend

[Rory_Gallagher]

There was no anger or malice in my response - it was simply that, a response! Tone can be hard to pick up/convey online. The cheek was intentional though.

[JmD]

I wouldn't say Henshaw and Payne have any real relationship, certainly there's no chemistry there anyway.

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit speechless at this. I don't think we're going to agree on this, so hopefully you enjoy the game at the weekend and we get the right result

?
Of course they don't have any natural chemistry together, they're two players forced to play out of position along side each other! Serious question, what do you think they do well together other than defend?

[Notch]

There was no anger or malice in my response - it was simply that, a response! Tone can be hard to pick up/convey online. The cheek was intentional though.

To be fair, I think a bit of cheek isn't a bad thing at all and I can probably use a few jabs whenever I fall in love with the sound of my own voice

I'm a big enough boy to take them, don't worry. But you would know as well as anyone that I've been a massive advocate for Jackson and a big, big fan of McCloskey. Just don't feel they are going to make a huge difference right away. I don't see this Henshaw-Payne partnership as long term either- only difference of opinion really is when it is superseded. Don't agree they don't have chemistry. Think they have a great understanding of where the other is going to go and what the other is going to do.

I'm pretty fascinated to see what happens in the last two games re. selection because logic says we try and grind out results for the first three games and then run up the points difference on the home stretch. Will McCloskey come into the equation? Giving him a go then might be the perfect time. Honestly couldn't tell you how likely it is. Do not have a hotline to Joe, just trying to make educated guesses and yours is as good as mine

[Notch]

I wouldn't say Henshaw and Payne have any real relationship, certainly there's no chemistry there anyway.

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit speechless at this. I don't think we're going to agree on this, so hopefully you enjoy the game at the weekend and we get the right result

?
Of course they don't have any natural chemistry together, they're two players forced to play out of position along side each other! Serious question, what do you think they do well together other than defend?

I both defence and attack I feel they've got a really natural appreciation of just what the other player is going to do and what line he's going to run before he does it. Its quite subtle, but really the way we play tends to be one pass from the ruck rugby (I understand the frustration with this) until we choose our moment to go wide, and normally one or both centres are doing the unglamorous work in attack- running screens or decoys while Sexton picks out a back three player. That is 'unseen work' to an extent, but they co-ordinate it very well between them.

[rapidsnowman]

I just can't understand why people are upset. The reaction is completely out of proportion with what’s actually happened.

I can totally understand why people are upset.
We were never going to have Jackson and McCloskey both starting and anyone who thought we would see that is in dreamland.

However, considering the lack of form leading up to the 6 nations of Rob Kearney coupled with the excellent form of Payne at full-back and the ability of Henshaw at 13 it did seem like a very real prospect that we might see the form back lining out at 12.

Not picking McCloskey has disappointed a lot of people.

Picking new caps, whilst always a risk for obvious reasons, can have a massive pay off. Look at Stander last week.

In light of the injuries to Zebo and Earls meaning McFadden has been called up has only compounded the situation making people even more upset even though logically McFadden is probably the right choice.

Of course we still support the team and it says something of how times have changed that most of us are expecting a win in Paris. I would happily take a ropey drop goal off the post in the last minute for the win!!

[wolfball]

I just can't understand why people are upset. The reaction is completely out of proportion with what’s actually happened.

I can totally understand why people are upset.
We were never going to have Jackson and McCloskey both starting and anyone who thought we would see that is in dreamland.

However, considering the lack of form leading up to the 6 nations of Rob Kearney coupled with the excellent form of Payne at full-back and the ability of Henshaw at 13 it did seem like a very real prospect that we might see the form back lining out at 12.

Not picking McCloskey has disappointed a lot of people.

Picking new caps, whilst always a risk for obvious reasons, can have a massive pay off. Look at Stander last week.

In light of the injuries to Zebo and Earls meaning McFadden has been called up has only compounded the situation making people even more upset even though logically McFadden is probably the right choice.

Of course we still support the team and it says something of how times have changed that most of us are expecting a win in Paris. I would happily take a ropey drop goal off the post in the last minute for the win!!

Its all about priorities. The way I see it we have a few priorities:

1. Ranking points, as its a hugely tough year and we don't want to fall out of top 8 for next RWC
2. Win championship
3. Develop a new leadership core after a load of injuries/retirements
4. Develop/cap new players within existing systems
5. Expand to better systems/style of play

I think that priorities 1,2,3 are what Schmidt thinks about first. Fans on here seem to care most about 2, 4 and 5. It's why there is so many people talking past each other. Now, how did game 1 go across these metrics?

1. A draw, so, well a draw here.
2. A blow but not decisive blow as Wales best team in tournament
3. Big advancement here, Heaslip/Sexton/Best as core leaders had great games, and Payne/McGrath and a couple others also showed leadership
4. New cap, MOTM. Inexperienced front five survived. Inexperienced subs played well.
5. 7-0 line breaks. A radically different game plan to what we saw in RWC.

So that's what's weird to me, the last game seems way closer to fulfilling fan's priorities than Schmidt's and people are still very upset. McCloskey is a great player but his inclusion is not the priority. 1-5 are. He will have his time.

[eirebilly]

I thought that last weekend, Stander had his debut and brought massive influence to the Irish side. He also helped get Heaslip into the game and Heaslip had a very good game. What's to say that McCloskey would not have the same impact?

It is a team that will defend well and force France to make mistakes but it is not a team to truly threaten France in my opinion.

If Payne is to play 13 then I would certainly give McCloskey the 12 shirt as they do have a good understanding as well and drop Henshaw to 15 where I believe that he is still a better option than an out of form Kearney.

I just do not get the resistance in selecting McCloskey at all, nothing to lose but loads to gain.

As for Jackson continually being ignored...

[rapidsnowman]

Hi Wolfball,

I largely agree with your assessment, but I don't see playing McCloskey as being to the detriment of points 1. & 2. & 3.
In fact I would suggest that his inclusion might help to those ends.

I certainly don't think McCloskey's inclusion is a priority nor would I do it for his sake, but because I believe he would add something to the team.

I think he would actually have been more suited to the French game than the Wales one, cause I don't think he would have got much change out of Roberts. The French defence will not be as tight as the Welsh one - I hope!

But Joe Schmidt is a 2 time HCup winner and a world respected professional coach - I'm not (just incase there was any doubt over that - no smart replies either!).

But I can't understand how people can't understand why people might be upset - if you follow that?
Not saying they are right to be upset, but acknowledging they may have grounds to feel the way they do - they are not being disloyal to the cause.

We all want the same thing at the end of the day!

[The Great Aukster]

Also, where is he appreciation from Ulster fans for Kidney for turning Kiss into your saviour? Kidney is responsible for your upturn in fortune. If Kidney never appointed him and didn't teach him all the skills he knows then Ulster would never have appointed him. It wouldn't be a bad idea to say thanks to Kidney for it.

Thanks for pointing that out Pete - it goes to show what lengthy contemplation produces when you spend centuries in a bog...

So stand up ye Ulster men, raise a glass in thanks and join in the worthy toast "We'll never forget you David Kidney"

[Peter Stringer]

But Joe Schmidt is a 2 time HCup winner and a world respected professional coach - I'm not (just incase there was any doubt over that - no smart replies either!).

Schmidt is a world respected coach? Really, let's ask Caros Spencer what he thinks.

Carlos Spencer:
Joe Schmidt? He sucks. Joe Schitt more like mate.

Carlos Spencer is from the world, therefore the world does not respect him as a coach.

[rapidsnowman]

Short man syndrome?

[The Great Aukster]

WRT the team selection I'm more in the Notch camp than not.

The discussion on the backs selection comes down to picking one player with class and experience who isn't on form over another with potential class, lacking experience but in great form.

The decision is marginal at best, and the real discussion should be centered on the pack rather than the backs. If the backs don't get good possession, then frankly what does it matter who isn't getting possession in the backs. Ireland have a real problem in the front five and where are the calls for change?

It is strange that a misfiring Leinster pack provides 2/3rds of the forwards. Is McCarthy really in better form than Muldowney? Would anything be lost by starting Ryan and having Dillane on the bench?

Maybe Schmidt is having to take a pragmatic view with his back selections, in that defence is first and foremost because he can't guarantee set play ball to attack with. The root of the problem is having the players who can deliver that for the team and it is there that the accusative finger should swing towards Mr Easterby. How can he conjure up some creative forward play to faciltate backplay when he may argue that Ireland simply don't have the players?

Really? Not all teams have massive, fast, powerful, slick handling forwards and Ireland simply don't have (or will ever have) enough numbers to compete on pure physique. What Simon has to get his head around is how to get more from the pool of players he has.

Forget the McCloskey for 12 campaign, Ireland need to be looking at the shirts less than half that number.

[Rory_Gallagher]

It should be noted that I am extremely excited for this Irish team with Schmidt in charge over the next few years. I can't think of a better coach to be in charge when players such as Ringrose and Olding come into the fray.

[Notch]

Peter Stringer-

[Rory_Gallagher]

WRT the team selection I'm more in the Notch camp than not.

The discussion on the backs selection comes down to picking one player with class and experience who isn't on form over another with potential class, lacking experience but in great form.

The decision is marginal at best, and the real discussion should be centered on the pack rather than the backs. If the backs don't get good possession, then frankly what does it matter who isn't getting possession in the backs. Ireland have a real problem in the front five and where are the calls for change?

It is strange that a misfiring Leinster pack provides 2/3rds of the forwards. Is McCarthy really in better form than Muldowney? Would anything be lost by starting Ryan and having Dillane on the bench?

Maybe Schmidt is having to take a pragmatic view with his back selections, in that defence is first and foremost because he can't guarantee set play ball to attack with. The root of the problem is having the players who can deliver that for the team and it is there that the accusative finger should swing towards Mr Easterby. How can he conjure up some creative forward play to faciltate backplay when he may argue that Ireland simply don't have the players?

Really? Not all teams have massive, fast, powerful, slick handling forwards and Ireland simply don't have (or will ever have) enough numbers to compete on pure physique. What Simon has to get his head around is how to get more from the pool of players he has.

Forget the McCloskey for 12 campaign, Ireland need to be looking at the shirts less than half that number.

This is actually another reason to believe that McCloskey would be the best option at 12. He has been one of the main players in the Ulster team making a lot of ground despite working behind a weak, retreating pack. In fact I would say he has been one of our most important players for this reason.

Anyway, I think I have said enough on the subject. I'm extremely excited for tomorrow's game regardless.

[geoff999rugby]

I wouldn't say Henshaw and Payne have any real relationship, certainly there's no chemistry there anyway.

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit speechless at this. I don't think we're going to agree on this, so hopefully you enjoy the game at the weekend and we get the right result

Have to agree with the OP I  just don't see it as a partnership to get excited about.
It defends but it doesn't attack- fits the mind set of stopping the opposition rather than imposing yourself on the opposition.
That was the lesson from the WC - we haven't learnt it.
Add to which 2 players I just cant get excited about - the Kearneys I just cant see our backs imposing themselves on France unless France make mistakes - which is perfectly possible.

There seems to be a fear of change here - Schmidt built in conservatism.
Would be such a risk to play McCloskey and Henshaw with Payne at 15.
Payne is by a country mile the best 15 and a very experienced player.
Bringing in the talent coming up - McCloskey, Olding, Ringrose has to start somewhere why not now with the 1 of the 3 who looks ready.
We played an uncapped player in the forwards against Wales and that didn't go too badly - only happen because of injuries though he wouldn't have been selected otherwise.
Disappointing we almost need Rob Kearney to get injured to force the change that should be made out of choice

[wolfball]

WRT the team selection I'm more in the Notch camp than not.

The discussion on the backs selection comes down to picking one player with class and experience who isn't on form over another with potential class, lacking experience but in great form.

The decision is marginal at best, and the real discussion should be centered on the pack rather than the backs. If the backs don't get good possession, then frankly what does it matter who isn't getting possession in the backs. Ireland have a real problem in the front five and where are the calls for change?

It is strange that a misfiring Leinster pack provides 2/3rds of the forwards. Is McCarthy really in better form than Muldowney? Would anything be lost by starting Ryan and having Dillane on the bench?

Maybe Schmidt is having to take a pragmatic view with his back selections, in that defence is first and foremost because he can't guarantee set play ball to attack with. The root of the problem is having the players who can deliver that for the team and it is there that the accusative finger should swing towards Mr Easterby. How can he conjure up some creative forward play to faciltate backplay when he may argue that Ireland simply don't have the players?

Really? Not all teams have massive, fast, powerful, slick handling forwards and Ireland simply don't have (or will ever have) enough numbers to compete on pure physique. What Simon has to get his head around is how to get more from the pool of players he has.

Forget the McCloskey for 12 campaign, Ireland need to be looking at the shirts less than half that number.

This is actually another reason to believe that McCloskey would be the best option at 12. He has been one of the main players in the Ulster team making a lot of ground despite working behind a weak, retreating pack. In fact I would say he has been one of our most important players for this reason.

Anyway, I think I have said enough on the subject. I'm extremely excited for tomorrow's game regardless.

Agreed he might help, and in your reply to me above, also agreed largely. I cannot wait to see McCloskey play (as long as Henshaw stays in the team, from Connacht after all ). But, like Carlos Spencer, McCloskey can throw the odd offload to nothing, and I can understand JS decision. But, yes! On way to Jakarta shortly, land in time for the match if my proxy works alright! Ireland by 9.


PS The "Peter Stringer" parody account is the best thing to happen to these boards in a long time. Can't wait for his from the horse's mouth account of BOD supporting Earls as Ireland's best 13 from 2010.

[Peter Stringer]

WRT the team selection I'm more in the Notch camp than not.

The discussion on the backs selection comes down to picking one player with class and experience who isn't on form over another with potential class, lacking experience but in great form.

The decision is marginal at best, and the real discussion should be centered on the pack rather than the backs. If the backs don't get good possession, then frankly what does it matter who isn't getting possession in the backs. Ireland have a real problem in the front five and where are the calls for change?

It is strange that a misfiring Leinster pack provides 2/3rds of the forwards. Is McCarthy really in better form than Muldowney? Would anything be lost by starting Ryan and having Dillane on the bench?

Maybe Schmidt is having to take a pragmatic view with his back selections, in that defence is first and foremost because he can't guarantee set play ball to attack with. The root of the problem is having the players who can deliver that for the team and it is there that the accusative finger should swing towards Mr Easterby. How can he conjure up some creative forward play to faciltate backplay when he may argue that Ireland simply don't have the players?

Really? Not all teams have massive, fast, powerful, slick handling forwards and Ireland simply don't have (or will ever have) enough numbers to compete on pure physique. What Simon has to get his head around is how to get more from the pool of players he has.

Forget the McCloskey for 12 campaign, Ireland need to be looking at the shirts less than half that number.

This is actually another reason to believe that McCloskey would be the best option at 12. He has been one of the main players in the Ulster team making a lot of ground despite working behind a weak, retreating pack. In fact I would say he has been one of our most important players for this reason.

Anyway, I think I have said enough on the subject. I'm extremely excited for tomorrow's game regardless.

Agreed he might help, and in your reply to me above, also agreed largely. I cannot wait to see McCloskey play (as long as Henshaw stays in the team, from Connacht after all ). But, like Carlos Spencer, McCloskey can throw the odd offload to nothing, and I can understand JS decision. But, yes! On way to Jakarta shortly, land in time for the match if my proxy works alright! Ireland by 9.

The Schmidtatron 2000 doesn't pick players who offload, it's as simple as that. When Simon Zebo dared to attempt one last Six Nations he was not only dropped but subjected to public humiliation. Mocking Munster fans everywhere he dressed Zebo as Jesus, made him carry a wooden cross and paraded him through the stone cobbled streets of 1640s Thurles and was publicly flogged. Schmidt said that's how the Romans dealt with tall poppies. Is it any wonder Marty Moore wants to play for Wasps, named after an animal that quite literally stings you to death. The war between man and wasp goes on.

[rapidsnowman]

It's funnier when it doesn't go too far. Strike the balance Pete.

Do you think Joe would ever have had a place in his team for you?

How about ROG? How would Joe have handled him?

[Peter Stringer]

It's funnier when it doesn't go too far. Strike the balance Pete.

Do you think Joe would ever have had a place in his team for you?

How about ROG? How would Joe have handled him?

Schmidt likes supplicants and yes men. ROG would be too much for him to handle. Fire in his eyes and ice through his veins, ROG would never have stood for Scmidtatron's behind the iron curtain totalitarianism. There is some hidden camera footage from the ROG documentary when Schmidt tries to instil the importance of his strict rule book with homework for players. It shows you what both characters are like.

dailymotion.com/video/xdh8vv_mcbain-by-book_fun

[whocares]

is "Peter Stringer" the new DOD?

[eirebilly]

Have to agree with the OP I  just don't see it as a partnership to get excited about.
It defends but it doesn't attack- fits the mind set of stopping the opposition rather than imposing yourself on the opposition.
That was the lesson from the WC - we haven't learnt it.
Add to which 2 players I just cant get excited about - the Kearneys I just cant see our backs imposing themselves on France unless France make mistakes - which is perfectly possible.

There seems to be a fear of change here - Schmidt built in conservatism.
Would be such a risk to play McCloskey and Henshaw with Payne at 15.
Payne is by a country mile the best 15 and a very experienced player.
Bringing in the talent coming up - McCloskey, Olding, Ringrose has to start somewhere why not now with the 1 of the 3 who looks ready.
We played an uncapped player in the forwards against Wales and that didn't go too badly - only happen because of injuries though he wouldn't have been selected otherwise.
Disappointing we almost need Rob Kearney to get injured to force the change that should be made out of choice

This is exactly how I feel. These small changes would bring a hell of a lot more balance to the backline I feel, Just hope to see it at some stage.

[GunsGerms]

How can Schmidt be accused of a fear of change when tactics and selections constantly evolve. My feeling is that people aren't seeing the changes and personal that they want and that therefore means that there is a fear of change but it doesn't.

In the Schmidt era he has given caps to 18 new players. The six nations average is 20.5 during that epriod. However, there is a clear correlation between being a top table team and taking a measured approach to new players. England and Wales have both handed out 16 new caps in the same period.

To be successful you need a mix of continuity and change. I'm convinced that Schmidt has the right mix and I prefer a measured approach to an emotional reactionary approach ala the French.

Payne is arguably the best 15 but he is also the best 13 right now and given that we have another very experienced and capable 15 in Kearney then why not stick with Payne at 13 if that makes the team stronger as a unit.

[geoff999rugby]

Introducing 1 new back is a measured approach.

Disagree Payne is the best 13 in Ireland, he is not the best 13 in Ulster (and I am not referring to Cave)
Kearney was capable he is now coming up short, Payne is better by some distance at 15.
Quid pro quo I disagree we are stronger as a unit

Schmidt may modify tactics but his mindset is one of denying the opposition rather than dominating the opposition.
This tends to be attritional in nature.

You cap stats don't add up - England have not been a top team in the Schmidt era.

[GunsGerms]

Introducing 1 new back is a measured approach.

Disagree Payne is the best 13 in Ireland, he is not the best 13 in Ulster (and I am not referring to Cave)
Kearney was capable he is now coming up short, Payne is better by some distance at 15.
Quid pro quo I disagree we are stronger as a unit

Schmidt may modify tactics but his mindset is one of denying the opposition rather than dominating the opposition.
This tends to be attritional in nature.

You cap stats don't add up - England have not been a top team in the Schmidt era.

He is the best 13 for this Ireland team for what Schmidt wants from his team and the game plans and tactics he wants to employ.

You are wrong about mind set. Ireland tend to try to dominate teams at the breakdown and at set pieces and build from there. We also dominated Wales in almost every sense on Saturday except the scrum. We made more line breaks attacked for more yards, won more turn overs, beat more defenders, missed less tackles etc.

How can you say England have not been a top team in the Schmidt era? They have finished second twice. You cant get closer to the top than that without winning.

[Pete330v2]

Introducing 1 new back is a measured approach.

Disagree Payne is the best 13 in Ireland, he is not the best 13 in Ulster (and I am not referring to Cave)
Kearney was capable he is now coming up short, Payne is better by some distance at 15.
Quid pro quo I disagree we are stronger as a unit

Schmidt may modify tactics but his mindset is one of denying the opposition rather than dominating the opposition.
This tends to be attritional in nature.

You cap stats don't add up - England have not been a top team in the Schmidt era.

+1

[Notch]

On a lighter note, I'm sure there are one or two of us on here who can relate

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/02/09/irish-rugby-fan-comes-out-as-gay-for-cj-stander/

Carlow man Ciaran Gibbons’s appreciation of CJ Stander took on a more erotic tone after the Munster player picked up the man of the match award against Wales while also singing the words to the national anthem, a truly astonishing feat for a man originally from South Africa.

“It’s incorrect to say I would go gay for CJ, as I already have,” confirmed Ciaran Gibbons, who knew his loose approach to defining his sexuality would anger and insult many, “I can’t define what love is, don’t judge me, this lad is South African, but he sang the national anthem… lads, he sang the Irish national anthem”.

'Tis your field CJ!

[Peter Stringer]

Introducing 1 new back is a measured approach.

Disagree Payne is the best 13 in Ireland, he is not the best 13 in Ulster (and I am not referring to Cave)
Kearney was capable he is now coming up short, Payne is better by some distance at 15.
Quid pro quo I disagree we are stronger as a unit

Schmidt may modify tactics but his mindset is one of denying the opposition rather than dominating the opposition.
This tends to be attritional in nature.

You cap stats don't add up - England have not been a top team in the Schmidt era.

I completely agree. Keith Earls is the best 13 in Ireland. Here's what Brian O'Driscoll had to say about him:

Brian O’Driscoll:
When I was growing as a privileged D4 noveau riche elitist snob who looked down on the culchies in Munster, Ger Earls stood out as a beacon of light of what a rugby player, nay a man should be.  The only thing that could have made him any better was if he had a big moustache like Magnum PI.  Magnum TA, the wrestler, had a fetching moustache as well.

So to play with his son Keith was such an honour and a privilege.  It changed my life.  As I and ROG have often said, and has never been taken out of context on any messaging board on thon t’interweb, Earls is the only player to really test me in training.  The fact that he surpassed me in every respect as a player, as a person, and as a lover only drove me on.  But despite wearing pajamas with his face on my buttocks, I know my career will be forever tainted by not being as good as him.

Also that New Zealand fella couldn’t lace Earls’ boots.  What about that kick against Canada in the World Cup.  What a grade A Heaslip (as in the verb 'to Heaslip', to be overrated but crap).  He also has funny shoulders and a little neck.  Jarrod No-Neck.  That’s what I call him.  At least to his face.  You should hear what I say about him behind his back.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think a few of the people on here need to speak to Stephen Ferris about the selection calls...

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/stephen-ferris-is-seriously-critical-of-joe-schmidts-team-selection-for-france/324361

[eirebilly]

He has a point though, doesn't he Rory?

I really feel that McCloskey and Jackson are being treated poorly by Schmidt in not getting the chance that their form has more than deserves.

[Notch]

I think anyone who watched the Ulster match last night will be seriously rethinking their support of McCloskey and Jackson. I don't know if it was the difficulty of slotting back in to Ulster after being with Ireland or just the psychological pressure of trying too hard to catch the eye of Schmidt but both were involved with the kind of unforced errors that are mercilessly punished at test level.

[eirebilly]

I didn't think that they were too bad? It was a horrible match but even if they had an off game, its simply that, an off game isn't it? It does not represent their form over the last 6months. Maybe I am just not so fickle when it comes to form.

[Notch]

I didn't think that they were too bad? It was a horrible match but even if they had an off game, its simply that, an off game isn't it? It does not represent their form over the last 6months. Maybe I am just not so fickle when it comes to form.

No it doesn't reflect their form for six months or more, but there were some very naive moments. When you are 8 points up, need to deny a team a bonus point, have no prospect of getting a try bonus point and you are throwing no-look pass inside your own half that results in a penalty... that is poor. Glasgow kick for the corner and score a try to leave with a losing bonus point due to us just over-playing and over-complicating when we had nothing to gain from it. A little more experience and leadership from Paddy and we would have sent them home with nothing. I practically had steam coming out of my ears. You would be heavily criticised for that if you did it in Ireland colours and rightly so. Apart from that and putting the kick-off out on the full Paddy had an extremely good game, but two unforced errors in 40 minutes from your 10 is liable to be the difference between winning or losing in a really tight test match. Against Wales Simon Zebo lazily put a kick out on the full and Wales used that territory to score 10 points- completely changed the result. He's still better than Madigan though, still going to make less mistakes than him, still would rather have him on the bench. Madigan is in my view far behind Paddy- this is more about Paddy being behind Sexton. It wasn't even a one-off poor game, we saw his ability and we do every week. But hopefully he learns from that error at the last. Those are the 1% improvements and tweaks that are the difference between being in the Ireland team and not being in the team and he needs to keep working and pushing to amend them.

As for McCloskey his physical attributes were on display again, along with his wonderful footwork. But again his decision making around the offload was questionable. If felt like he was in three minds every time he approached the contact situation. Sometimes I feel he would be superb in a team were everyone is used to the offloading game and is always expecting the offload to come because he has so much natural talent in that regard. But he is not surrounded by players who are on that wavelength for Ulster and Ireland. He improved a lot in the second half when he just took contact and powered through it. Sad, for me, that we don't have the skills to properly accommodate his offloading talent. Similar thing happened with Jared Payne when he moved to centre for Ulster last season; he was getting the hands free and throwing offloads with nearly every carry and it was just killing our attack because the players around him weren't on his wavelength. It just resulted in turnovers. He has had to learn that when playing with players with, to be blunt, lower skill levels than him sometimes the more conservative option is the right one.

I'm very much in favour of all the provinces throwing offloads and trying to play attacking rugby because how else will the skill sets improve? How else will we ever be able to say that the national team can actually use that game plan? But it has to be on the back off that game being coached at youth level. Even if the provinces are willing to make mistakes in the short term to improve their skill levels, which is fair, that doesn't mean that those players are equipped for Ireland duty where we really can't afford not to play to our traditional strengths.

[Peter Stringer]

I think a few of the people on here need to speak to Stephen Ferris about the selection calls...

balls.ie/rugby/stephen-ferris-is-seriously-critical-of-joe-schmidts-team-selection-for-france/324361

Disgraceful slandering of Declan Kidney who gave him his opportunities and made him the player he is. It isn't Kidneys fault his faulty genes forced him to retire and left him so bitter and ungrateful.

[Don Alfonso]

Couldn't get to the game last night. McCloskey and Jacko are trying too hard probably - I certainly thought McCloskey was in the last game.

But if we're comparing their form (or Gilroy's) to McFadden's - he was dross against the Dragons, topped off with a terrible yellow card. And he was just back from a ban for stamping.

I'm quite sanguine, but I understand why that call has really irritated people.

[Notch]

Couldn't get to the game last night. McCloskey and Jacko are trying too hard probably - I certainly thought McCloskey was in the last game.

Agree. But their chance will come if they- and we- are patient.

[Peter Stringer]

Couldn't get to the game last night. McCloskey and Jacko are trying too hard probably - I certainly thought McCloskey was in the last game.

Agree. But their chance will come if they- and we- are patient.

We know how Schmidtatron deals with tall poppies. Just remember Declan Kidney gave Jackson and Marshall their debuts based on their talents. But you all wanted him out. Kim Jong Joe doesn't give form players a chance, puts McFadden and Kearney in the team who wouldn't get on the Munster or Ulster bench and he is still a genius? Deccie deserves better.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think anyone who watched the Ulster match last night will be seriously rethinking their support of McCloskey and Jackson. I don't know if it was the difficulty of slotting back in to Ulster after being with Ireland or just the psychological pressure of trying too hard to catch the eye of Schmidt but both were involved with the kind of unforced errors that are mercilessly punished at test level.

I would agree that they were rather poor in their decision making. However, much of this could be down to training with another team for the past few weeks plus the psychological effect of being two of the best players in Ireland and not making the 23. They were clearly trying too hard. However they need to be judged by the same measure as the rest of the team. They aren't all form picks and many have been criticised throughout the season for having many more considerably worse games than the two mentioned.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Couldn't get to the game last night. McCloskey and Jacko are trying too hard probably - I certainly thought McCloskey was in the last game.

Agree. But their chance will come if they- and we- are patient.

Absolutely, but many believe that they would be incredibly important players to have included in the match day squad for these games. Anyway, I hope we are all on the same page in a few hours and I sincerely hope that Schmidt can back up his team selection with a win. I think he will to be honest as he is an excellent coach.

[geoff999rugby]

Gilroy played at level last night McFadden and D. Kearney can only dream off.

Safety first rules

[Rory_Gallagher]

Craig Gilroy certainly made another statement. He certainly offers something few in Ireland can.

[geoff999rugby]

He is the best 13 for this Ireland team for what Schmidt wants from his team and the game plans and tactics he wants to employ.

That's the problem

You are wrong about mind set. Ireland tend to try to dominate teams at the breakdown and at set pieces and build from there. We also dominated Wales in almost every sense on Saturday except the scrum. We made more line breaks attacked for more yards, won more turn overs, beat more defenders, missed less tackles etc.

Ireland don't try and dominate teams ball in hand.
Being, slightly less negative, than another negative team is no recommendation.
We still have failed to learn the lessons of the World Cup

How can you say England have not been a top team in the Schmidt era? They have finished second twice. You cant get closer to the top than that without winning.

Don't wish to have ago but are you seriously suggesting that no wins and two second places is considered successful for England.
Plus being the first ever host nation to fail to get out of their group
English rugby looks on the last couple of years as failure and rightly so

[JmD]

Couldn't get to the game last night. McCloskey and Jacko are trying too hard probably - I certainly thought McCloskey was in the last game.

Agree. But their chance will come if they- and we- are patient.

Unfortunately the backs didn't stand a chance outside the one man momentum handbrake that was Paul Marshall. My word he was awful, the only time the backs were able to do anyhing was from counter attacks where the ball didn't have to go through Marshall's hands.

[Notch]

He was terrible. Actually the pack was worst for me, the body language was terrible- the back three I thought was excellent. Centres were quiet and Pienaar, Marshall and Windsor were poor. Olding is just... class in a glass. He really is. I would put Olding into this Ireland team any time. McCloskey I still have doubts over, Jackson I just feel is almost there but behind a really great 10 in Sexton- Olding? I would have him in. Most talented back in the country.

I think Stockdale is looking more and more comfortable too.

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