The Ireland Squad Announcement Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the discussion on the 'Ireland 2016 Squad' thread which can be found here.

Ireland squad has been announced. It contains four uncapped players- Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane, Josh van der Flier and CJ Stander. However there is no room for Garry Ringrose. Mike Ross, Cian Healy and Chris Henry have all been omitted due to injury but may feature later as they return to fitness in their provincial set-ups.

Ireland Squad RBS 6 Nations 2016 Rounds 1 & 2

Forwards (19)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)*
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
Nathan White (Connacht)

Backs (16)

Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Stuart McCloskey (McCloskey/Ulster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster)

*Denotes uncapped player

[GunsGerms]

Guns, I must go and set up a Schmidt clock

The comments below this piece could be transcripted with a name change from Kidney to Schmidt.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/05/22/the-kidney-clock/

3rd, 3rd, 3rd and 5th was Kidney's six nations record after the grand slam. If Schmidt does that poor in his next three six nations Ill set the Schmidt clock up myself.

[Notch]

Payne being out would be a massive blow to us if you look at the way England attacked in the second half last week. He's the lynchpin of our defence and if not for him we could have been down more than 1 in Paris.

Expecting to hear 'But we need to focus on attack, not defence!'. And yeah improving the attack is important and we need to experiment with different combinations. But the same voices were indignant when the defence absolutely went to pieces last time we played in a big game without him. Even if McCloskey does offer more it won't matter if England get a few scores ahead at any point- because we'll be looking down the barrel of a major hiding.

I believe that if defence falls apart, attack will fall apart because the confidence will fall apart and players will be desperate to over-play and chase the game. So we need to be solid.

[Redman]

Payne being out would be a massive blow to us if you look at the way England attacked in the second half last week. He's the lynchpin of our defence and if not for him we could have been down more than 1 in Paris.

Expecting to hear 'But we need to focus on attack, not defence!'. And yeah improving the attack is important and we need to experiment with different combinations. But the same voices were indignant when the defence absolutely went to pieces last time we played in a big game without him. Even if McCloskey does offer more it won't matter if England get a few scores ahead at any point- because we'll be looking down the barrel of a major hiding.

I believe that if defence falls apart, attack will fall apart because the confidence will fall apart and players will be desperate to over-play and chase the game. So we need to be solid.

Would happily see our younger players nowhere near this game, and introduced for Italy and Scotland at home. Handicap is roughly 7 point at the moment, I can only see that rising as our injuries are confirmed.

[JmD]

What are the odds Schmidt loses his mind completely and plays something like Henshaw-Earls in the centre...

[rodders]

What are the odds Schmidt loses his mind completely and plays something like Henshaw-Earls in the centre...

Evens.

I'm starting to think Schmidt has given us up as a lost cause is trying to get a pay off and early release from the IRFU.

[LordDowlais]

What are the odds Schmidt loses his mind completely and plays something like Henshaw-Earls in the centre...

Evens.

I'm starting to think Schmidt has given us up as a lost cause is trying to get a pay off and early release from the IRFU.

Christ, you lot are more fickle than us Welsh with your coaches. First you Gatland, then you fecked him off for Eddie O'Sullivan, you all bitched and moaned about him and then you had Declan Kidney he won you your first GS in years then you all moan and grizzle about him then he gets the chop, and now you are all on Schmidt's back, a coach who has won you back to back 6N and got you ranked 3rd in the world. FFS what is it you lot want ?

[marty2086]

What are the odds Schmidt loses his mind completely and plays something like Henshaw-Earls in the centre...

Evens.

I'm starting to think Schmidt has given us up as a lost cause is trying to get a pay off and early release from the IRFU.

Christ, you lot are more fickle than us Welsh with your coaches. First you Gatland, then you fecked him off for Eddie O'Sullivan, you all bitched and moaned about him and then you had Declan Kidney he won you your first GS in years then you all moan and grizzle about him then he gets the chop, and now you are all on Schmidt's back, a coach who has won you back to back 6N and got you ranked 3rd in the world. FFS what is it you lot want ?

The rerigging of the Pro12 and European competitions in our favour so we can rest our players more

[carpet baboon]

What are the odds Schmidt loses his mind completely and plays something like Henshaw-Earls in the centre...

Evens.

I'm starting to think Schmidt has given us up as a lost cause is trying to get a pay off and early release from the IRFU.

Christ, you lot are more fickle than us Welsh with your coaches. First you Gatland, then you fecked him off for Eddie O'Sullivan, you all bitched and moaned about him and then you had Declan Kidney he won you your first GS in years then you all moan and grizzle about him then he gets the chop, and now you are all on Schmidt's back, a coach who has won you back to back 6N and got you ranked 3rd in the world. FFS what is it you lot want ?

Same as you LD. That all our team are recognised as the greatest of all and the world cup clearly isn't representative of skill, talent or ability,its just luck. And our favourite players are universally seen as superior in all facets of the game.

Simple really

[wolfball]

What are the odds Schmidt loses his mind completely and plays something like Henshaw-Earls in the centre...

Evens.

I'm starting to think Schmidt has given us up as a lost cause is trying to get a pay off and early release from the IRFU.

Christ, you lot are more fickle than us Welsh with your coaches. First you Gatland, then you fecked him off for Eddie O'Sullivan, you all bitched and moaned about him and then you had Declan Kidney he won you your first GS in years then you all moan and grizzle about him then he gets the chop, and now you are all on Schmidt's back, a coach who has won you back to back 6N and got you ranked 3rd in the world. FFS what is it you lot want ?

So fickle we are, 3 coaches in 15 years... do you ever try and look at facts before throwing out opinions?

And we are not all on Schmidt's back. If you read through the thread there are several of us defending him including myself. I agree expectations are very high regarding a team in transition, but we like to be hard on ourselves. Ye should try it every once and awhile over in wales, its mighty craic.

[wolfball]

I don't want a group of "death" either. But can you honestly say that McFadden on the bench was a better option than gilroy? Or Zebo? Will McFadden be around the squad in 2019?.
And on the subject of McFadden I remember several years ago in a Churchill cup game against England. He absolutely destroyed them along with Felix Jones. Then what? Little recognition, shunted around the back line and a talent wasted, all because we were scared to change the first 15

Zebo was injured. If you think gilroy on the bench was the difference between us winning and losing that last match i am gobsmacked. I love gilroy and would have him high in the pecking order of all wingers we have, but again, we are still talking about 1-2 players making a huge difference. We do not play like that. We may not like it, but selection is really not the issue right now, and the over emphasis on selection over discussion on tactics is crazy to me. Judging our tactics as they are right now, what would you change? I have listed a few things I'd change above.

We have even more injuries (Payne, Sexton mayne), and we will likely see more debutants/low cap players in the 23 for a couple of weeks from now. It is exciting, but it makes winning less likely,not more likely. Here though is where Schmidt earns his money. If he can tactially beat england away, with our injury list we may turn a corner. But to be honest other than sorting the scrum, I don't know the best tactics to play against england. I feel that last year's kick/chase gives us a higher percentage chance of winning then the high passing/low penetration game we have played the last two weeks but what we should actually do I really don't know. I think without our backline defensive organisers we are in trouble.

[Notch]

rodders has caught a few juicy ones I see

[carpet baboon]

Wolf you seemed to have grasp the wrong end of my stick oooo errr.
I'm not saying gilroy would have magically won us the game. I'm saying let's give players a chance so we can stop asking if they can make the step up. Let's give them the the chance, I like McFadden, but did we learn anything we didn't already know?
All I'm saying let's give players a bench spot rather than falling back on tried and tested.
And Zebo trained fully on the Thursday they just decided not to risk him, so was fit enough.

[BamBam]

Not looking forward to the possibility of McCloskey running at a 10-12 combo of Ford-Farrell

Haskell/Robshaw will need to do some covering

[carpet baboon]

Not looking forward to the possibility of McCloskey running at a 10-12 combo of Ford-Farrell

Haskell/Robshaw will need to do some covering

I quite like it, Farrell will try his I'm a hard man routine and go high and will get swatted away.

As an England fan are you ever concerned Farrel is going to get himself sent off?
He just seems to do a few stupid things during a game.

I do like him by the way, think he is starting to add a running game,met him once last year, seems a nice chap too

[BamBam]

Yeah, thats what I'm worried about!

Off the top of my head, I don't know how often Farrell has been carded, the game against Australia in the RWC is the only one in an England shirt, and that was more for tackling the wrong man than anything too crazy

The edge he has is definitely part of him as a player, and he does need to keep the aggression at 12. I prefer my 10 to be a calmer, more considered chap on the field, but the form he is in at the moment I think he should be our starting 10

Just got to hope that he keeps on the right side of the line, but not overly concerned at the moment

[Rory_Gallagher]

What are the odds Schmidt loses his mind completely and plays something like Henshaw-Earls in the centre...

Evens.

I'm starting to think Schmidt has given us up as a lost cause is trying to get a pay off and early release from the IRFU.

Christ, you lot are more fickle than us Welsh with your coaches. First you Gatland, then you fecked him off for Eddie O'Sullivan, you all bitched and moaned about him and then you had Declan Kidney he won you your first GS in years then you all moan and grizzle about him then he gets the chop, and now you are all on Schmidt's back, a coach who has won you back to back 6N and got you ranked 3rd in the world. FFS what is it you lot want ?

I think he might have been joking, LD... I know you love your rants, but it would be cruel not to let you in on the joke.

Besides, I don't think there are any genuine fans (excluding a few of the Munster faithful) who legitimately want Schmidt to leave this Ireland team.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Payne being out would be a massive blow to us if you look at the way England attacked in the second half last week. He's the lynchpin of our defence and if not for him we could have been down more than 1 in Paris.

Expecting to hear 'But we need to focus on attack, not defence!'. And yeah improving the attack is important and we need to experiment with different combinations. But the same voices were indignant when the defence absolutely went to pieces last time we played in a big game without him. Even if McCloskey does offer more it won't matter if England get a few scores ahead at any point- because we'll be looking down the barrel of a major hiding.

I believe that if defence falls apart, attack will fall apart because the confidence will fall apart and players will be desperate to over-play and chase the game. So we need to be solid.

Payne has actually been one of the better players for Ireland and has consistently made ground and injected much needed pace into the game. He is the last player I would be looking at moving/dropping in all honesty. It would help if he had a genuine 12 inside him though, especially one who has played with him frequently (McCloskey). If he is indeed injured he would be a considerable loss both in defence and attack.

[Sin é]

I think Jared has a dead leg, so more than likely will be fit for England game.

[carpet baboon]

Yeah, thats what I'm worried about!

Off the top of my head, I don't know how often Farrell has been carded, the game against Australia in the RWC is the only one in an England shirt, and that was more for tackling the wrong man than anything too crazy

The edge he has is definitely part of him as a player, and he does need to keep the aggression at 12. I prefer my 10 to be a calmer, more considered chap on the field, but the form he is in at the moment I think he should be our starting 10

Just got to hope that he keeps on the right side of the line, but not overly concerned at the moment

I don't remember him getting carded at all either, but now and again, lick the shove on Scotland's 9 he seems to get to over excited, but as they say no harm no foul so far, andifhe keeps alevel head and the opposition try to go after him, well its advantage Farrell.

Just wouldn't want to see him needlessly sent off the pitch...... Hang on he's English, get him wound up so much he starts a fight during the anthems

[Marshes]

I appreciate that Payne is a defensive leader and a loss, but i feel if Henshaw steps into that role he can fill the void for the England game. We would have someone who is then also very strong in defence and can make breaks on the outside, with an opportunity to bring in McCloskey at 12

[RubyGuby]

I appreciate that Payne is a defensive leader and a loss, but i feel if Henshaw steps into that role he can fill the void for the England game. We would have someone who is then also very strong in defence and can make breaks on the outside, with an opportunity to bring in McCloskey at 12

Agree, you have to go to win the game and I like the balance and power that those 2 can bring

[Sin é]

I appreciate that Payne is a defensive leader and a loss, but i feel if Henshaw steps into that role he can fill the void for the England game. We would have someone who is then also very strong in defence and can make breaks on the outside, with an opportunity to bring in McCloskey at 12

The 13 is responsible for making sure that all the backs make their tackles. Keith Earls who is a very good defender, was blamed for Dave Kearney's missed tackles v. Argentina.

[JmD]

I appreciate that Payne is a defensive leader and a loss, but i feel if Henshaw steps into that role he can fill the void for the England game. We would have someone who is then also very strong in defence and can make breaks on the outside, with an opportunity to bring in McCloskey at 12

The 13 is responsible for making sure that all the backs make their tackles. Keith Earls who is a very good defender, was blamed for Dave Kearney's missed tackles v. Argentina.

Earls is a good tackler, not really a great defender.

I would say it's the 13's job to set the general positioning of the backline, but it's up to the winger to do his own job. For example, if the 13 rushes up out of the line, the wing has to recognise it and rush up with him. The 13 isn't there to babysit in defense, he's there to lead.

[dublin_dave]

I would rather lose 35 - 25 than 9-8 to be honest

Our attacking particularly in the opposition 22 needs to improve. Honestly think our best hope of beating England given our front 5 injuries is to play a bit looser and move their big pack around. To do this we will need to pray for a dry day and pick a backline with a bit more form and flair

[asoreleftshoulder]

I appreciate that Payne is a defensive leader and a loss, but i feel if Henshaw steps into that role he can fill the void for the England game. We would have someone who is then also very strong in defence and can make breaks on the outside, with an opportunity to bring in McCloskey at 12

The 13 is responsible for making sure that all the backs make their tackles. Keith Earls who is a very good defender, was blamed for Dave Kearney's missed tackles v. Argentina.

That's just something the morons on Munsterfans made up in between making 15 year old Simpson's references.

[Sin é]

I appreciate that Payne is a defensive leader and a loss, but i feel if Henshaw steps into that role he can fill the void for the England game. We would have someone who is then also very strong in defence and can make breaks on the outside, with an opportunity to bring in McCloskey at 12

The 13 is responsible for making sure that all the backs make their tackles. Keith Earls who is a very good defender, was blamed for Dave Kearney's missed tackles v. Argentina.

That's just something the morons on Munsterfans made up in between making 15 year old Simpson's references.

Eh, BOD blamed him on Off the Ball. He said that Jared Payne's defence was missing and then went onto say:

“I’m not shooting down (Keith) Earlsy. He’s played a lot out on the wing so he’s not as up to speed as some people are at 13.”

Absolutely no mention that Kearney missed most the tackles.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yeah no mention that Earls was to blame for DK's missed tackles at all.Thanks for making my point.

I wonder what Peter Stringer has to say about it, he might make a post about it tomorrow if we're lucky.

[Sin é]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

“You’ve guys in there that don’t know each other and weren’t big communicators. For me, the two biggest losses were Jonny at 10 and possibly from a defensive point of view, Jared at 13, just being able to pull guys out to the width.

“I’m not shooting down (Keith) Earlsy. He’s played a lot out on the wing so he’s not as up to speed as some people are at 13.”
O’Driscoll also criticised Ireland’s tendency to get “mismatched all over the place”.

[profitius]

I would rather lose 35 - 25 than 9-8 to be honest

Our attacking particularly in the opposition 22 needs to improve. Honestly think our best hope of beating England given our front 5 injuries is to play a bit looser and move their big pack around. To do this we will need to pray for a dry day and pick a backline with a bit more form and flair

Joe Schmidt would prefer a 6-3 loss than a 40-34 loss. Statistically one would leave Ireland on -3 points difference while the other would leave Ireland on -6 points difference. Schmidt's defenders would point out that the 6-3 loss was the better result (and Payne had a great game ).

[JmD]

Just to go on record nice and early, assuming here's the time I would like (if Payne is out, alternatives are in brackets):

(!5-1) Payne (Zebo), Trimble, Henshaw, McCloskey, Zebo (Earls), Sexton, Murray, Heaslip, TOD, Stander, Toner, Ryan, Ross, Best, McGrath

Bench: Cronin, Healy, White, Dillane, Ruddock, Marmion, Jackson, Earls (Marshall)

Pace and attacking ability in the backline, plenty of impact to be made off the bench.
Here's the team I expect:

(15-1) Kearney, Trimble, Payne (Earls), Henshaw, Earls (Zebo), Sexton, Murray, Heaslip, Ruddock, Stander, Toner, Ryan, Ross, Best, Healy

Bench: Strauss, Healy, White, Dillane, TOD, Reddan, Madigan, Zebo (McFadden)

[rodders]

Payne has actually been one of the better players for Ireland and has consistently made ground and injected much needed pace into the game. He is the last player I would be looking at moving/dropping in all honesty.

Totally agree.

In fact this hype around Henshaw is ridiculous - I read someone else suggest he was Ireland's best outside back on another channel... He's a good player but he wouldn't make the Ulster 23 if everyone was fit.

He has shown very little at 13 for Connacht, Bundiaki has been the more impressive player - at 12 he isn't a patch om McCloskey who is better in every department. His best rugby by far has been at 15, where he does look international class but Payne is carrying him at the minute for Ireland and Schmidt knows it.

[rodders]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

Kearney missed tackles were due to him getting isolated in defence because the guy at 13,Earls, wasn't able to lead the defensive line.

[carpet baboon]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

Kearney missed tackles were due to him getting isolated in defence because the guy at 13,Earls, wasn't able to lead the defensive line.

Lads the world cup is over. It's the six nations now. Let's move on

[asoreleftshoulder]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

“You’ve guys in there that don’t know each other and weren’t big communicators. For me, the two biggest losses were Jonny at 10 and possibly from a defensive point of view, Jared at 13, just being able to pull guys out to the width.

“I’m not shooting down (Keith) Earlsy. He’s played a lot out on the wing so he’s not as up to speed as some people are at 13.”
O’Driscoll also criticised Ireland’s tendency to get “mismatched all over the place”.

So we can agree that in all that text there is no mention of Earls being the reason DK missed tackles.

[Sin é]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

“You’ve guys in there that don’t know each other and weren’t big communicators. For me, the two biggest losses were Jonny at 10 and possibly from a defensive point of view, Jared at 13, just being able to pull guys out to the width.

“I’m not shooting down (Keith) Earlsy. He’s played a lot out on the wing so he’s not as up to speed as some people are at 13.”
O’Driscoll also criticised Ireland’s tendency to get “mismatched all over the place”.

So we can agree that in all that text there is no mention of Earls being the reason DK missed tackles.

Earls was singled out for being the cause of the poor defence despite Dave Kearney missing half of his tackles (made 5, missed 5). BOD deflected the blame from Kearney onto Earls.

[rodders]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

Kearney missed tackles were due to him getting isolated in defence because the guy at 13,Earls, wasn't able to lead the defensive line.

Lads the world cup is over. It's the six nations now. Let's move on

Yeah the point is Payne is one of the first names on the sheet is because he leads the defensive line at 13 and no one else has shown themselves capable of doing that currently in the side.

So it is Payne + a.n other and for me Henshaw is not the best 12 available (he was in the RWC) - Mccloskey is.

[rodders]

 BOD deflected the blame from Kearney onto Earls.

That's because it was Earls fault.

[Sin é]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

Kearney missed tackles were due to him getting isolated in defence because the guy at 13,Earls, wasn't able to lead the defensive line.

Going on McFadden's performance last week, Payne wasn't much better than Earls v. Argentina.

[rodders]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

Kearney missed tackles were due to him getting isolated in defence because the guy at 13,Earls, wasn't able to lead the defensive line.

Going on McFadden's performance last week, Payne wasn't much better than Earls v. Argentina.

The difference is Kearney can tackle and McFadden can't.

[Marshes]

Payne has actually been one of the better players for Ireland and has consistently made ground and injected much needed pace into the game. He is the last player I would be looking at moving/dropping in all honesty.

Totally agree.

In fact this hype around Henshaw is ridiculous - I read someone else suggest he was Ireland's best outside back on another channel... He's a good player but he wouldn't make the Ulster 23 if everyone was fit.

He has shown very little at 13 for Connacht, Bundiaki has been the more impressive player - at 12 he isn't a patch om McCloskey who is better in every department. His best rugby by far has been at 15, where he does look international class but Payne is carrying him at the minute for Ireland and Schmidt knows it.

Rodders from this and previous comments on Henshaw from you I have to assume you haven't seen much of him at 13 for Connacht, which is fair enough as never on the telly! Last year he was brilliant playing there, look at the Gloucester playoff match if you want to see what the Connacht fans saw whenever he turned out at 13. Not getting into if he would get into the Ulster 23, but for you to say he is overhyped and then to go on to say he isn't a patch on McCloskey is mad double standard. McCloskey has been brilliant for Ulster this year, but lets get him into the team and see how he goes from there before we anoint him.

I'm a big admirer of Payne in the squad as well, but as much as Henshaw is a blockage at 12, so is Payne at 13. How do you think Payne is carrying Henshaw? It is not in his attacking prowess I can tell you that. And it was Henshaw taking the heat from Jamie Roberts two weeks ago, not the Kiwi Jesus.

Do you think Ireland should just play in white maybe?

[asoreleftshoulder]

He points the defensive failure as being down to Earls being not up to speed at 13, yet it was Dave Kearney that missed all the tackles.

“You’ve guys in there that don’t know each other and weren’t big communicators. For me, the two biggest losses were Jonny at 10 and possibly from a defensive point of view, Jared at 13, just being able to pull guys out to the width.

“I’m not shooting down (Keith) Earlsy. He’s played a lot out on the wing so he’s not as up to speed as some people are at 13.”
O’Driscoll also criticised Ireland’s tendency to get “mismatched all over the place”.

So yet again no mention of Earls being the reason DK missed tackles, you're being very thorough in making my point.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Payne has actually been one of the better players for Ireland and has consistently made ground and injected much needed pace into the game. He is the last player I would be looking at moving/dropping in all honesty.

Totally agree.

In fact this hype around Henshaw is ridiculous - I read someone else suggest he was Ireland's best outside back on another channel... He's a good player but he wouldn't make the Ulster 23 if everyone was fit.

He has shown very little at 13 for Connacht, Bundiaki has been the more impressive player - at 12 he isn't a patch om McCloskey who is better in every department. His best rugby by far has been at 15, where he does look international class but Payne is carrying him at the minute for Ireland and Schmidt knows it.

It isn't true at all that Henshaw has shown little at 13 for Connacht. This predates the arrival of Bundee Aki. Robbie Henshaw came into the scene playing at 15 (at Pro 12 level) but moved to 13 fairly quickly and was exceptional there also. He has the power, pace, awareness and distribution needed to play at 13 and has demonstrated this clearly for Connacht with some exemplary performances. Obviously international games are a step up but he has already shown glimpses of what he can do for Ireland with little of the space he would get at 13/15. To be honest I would be happy to see him in either position but he really is wasted at 12. Either way the hype is certainly not undeserved and I don't think the hype was ever over the top. I also think most Connacht fans would agree that the best midfield consists of Aki at 12 (his natural position) and Henshaw at 13 (his natural position).

My biggest worry is that he is being converted into an inside centre and there he will be overtaken by the likes of McCloskey, Olding and Marshall. Without adequate game time at 13 he will be overshadowed by Ringrose eventually, where we could have instead ended up with a very exciting and healthy rivalry. I also doubt he will get game time at Leinster playing at fullback. He will be behind Kearney, Nacewa, Kirchner and potentially Kelleher. I genuinely think moving away from Connacht is a big mistake for him personally and for the Ireland team overall. It is good for Leinster as they are looking for more cover at 12 but for Ireland he is going to be overtaken by better options. Or, as I also fear, he will be considered over the better options as he will regularly play alongside Sexton and Ringrose for Leinster.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I do think that currently Jared Payne is the best option at 13 however and that the McCloskey-Payne midfield is our strongest. That will change very soon as the likes of Olding and Ringrose arrive but honestly they should have been our midfield throughout this tournament. I don't agree in the slightest that it wouldn't have made a big difference - we drew one game and lost by one point in another. Small changes could have been the difference between a win and a loss.

Yes, the scrum has been the biggest factor in both games but in terms of getting front foot ball, having what is essentially an extra number 8 in the midfield (with the hands and awareness to back it up) would have helped immeasurably in open play. Especially when we are missing some key players in the pack who do this. As usual relying on just one or two carriers in the pack (Stander in this case) is never enough.

Of course having at least one or two players in the back three with actual pace and finishing ability would also be desirable. For example, Simon Zebo did actually manage to cause the Welsh defence a lot of problems despite the weakness of our pack and despite the fact that our midfield was essentially nullified.

[rodders]

Rodders from this and previous comments on Henshaw from you I have to assume you haven't seen much of him at 13 for Connacht, which is fair enough as never on the telly!

I've seen plenty of him and think he is good but not that good. His physicality is over-rated in Ireland and his best attributes are his passing and ability under the high ball.

He's naturally better in the wider channels so is a good 13 but a better 15 imo. His meters and creativity at inside centre isn't a patch on McCloskey.

I don't care what color Ireland play in but the best backs in the country play in white right now and it is shocking only Trimble, who's not actually in great form ironically, is the only one in the Ireland backline.

[Marshes]

Rodders from this and previous comments on Henshaw from you I have to assume you haven't seen much of him at 13 for Connacht, which is fair enough as never on the telly!

I've seen plenty of him and think he is good but not that good. His physicality is over-rated in Ireland and his best attributes are his passing and ability under the high ball.

He's naturally better in the wider channels so is a good 13 but a better 15 imo. His meters and creativity at inside centre isn't a patch on McCloskey.

I don't care what color Ireland play in but the best backs in the country play in white right now and it is shocking only Trimble, who's not actually in great form ironically, is the only one in the Ireland backline.

I agree he is not a 12, but he has hardly done himself disservice there, it is in fact indicative of his quality that he can do the job there. How many 12's in the country could have stood up to what Jamie Roberts was throwing at them including McCloskey?

I am a huge fan of McCloskey and Jackson, both would be in the matchday 23 for me with Payne in his best position of 15 where he can actually attack from, and the best attacking and defensive option we have actually at 13. Henshaw has an eye from a break from 13 that Payne apparently doesn't too. He is an excellent 15 too, very different mould to Payne, but a good option there. I would like to think you will see a bit more of him at 13 for Leinster, but I doubt that will be the case unfortunately.

And sorry the best backs in the country play in white? Ye've scored two less tries than Connacht and two more than Leinster! Back down to earth Rodders please Some fantastic talent up there indeed, but there is plenty of competition now which wasn't there before. I'd like to see Gilroy and Marshall get their shot again, but if you have seen as much of Connacht as you say you have then you'd say Healy and O Halloran deserve their shot just as much.

[rodders]

I hope we don't see him at 13 for Leinster much as Ringrose is the better player.

Totally agree on O'Halloran and Healy but both are defensively not the best.

Take Teo and Nacewa out of the leinster back line and see how many tries they have this year - in fact they are better sans their Ireland players

[Marshes]

I hope we don't see him at 13 for Leinster much as Ringrose is the better player.

Totally agree on O'Halloran and Healy but both are defensively not the best.

Take Teo and Nacewa out of the leinster back line and see how many tries they have this year - in fact they are better sans their Ireland players

Jeez turn out a few times at 13 gainst zebre while the big lads are away and you are all of a sudden a better 13 than someone who has been there for three seasons! Great prospect again but still a ways to go.

See this and saying O Halloran are defensively iffy again makes me think you don't have much access to TG4 and so only fleetingly see the Connacht games Rodders! Or maybe your cupla focal are rusty and you are mixing up the players TOH has been form 15 on this island this year.

Healy is much the same as Gilroy I think, both have a reputation for defensive work and positioning. Healy got absolutely creamed by Liam Williams the other week.

[Notch]

I'm more and more coming round to seeing Henshaw as the successor to Kearney at 15- and we do need to identify a successor quickly. People are saying move Payne back there, but given he's 30 he would be as much a stopgap solution at fullback as he is at centre. He's going to be 34 at the next World Cup. Zebo looks like he has potential in attack but tunes out at times too- seems to mix the good with the bad in most games he plays there although I feel he has definite promise. Felix Jones is retired. O'Hallornan is seemingly out in the wilderness, not rated. It says a lot that Nucifora was willing to allow Louis Ludik to stay at Ulster to become Irish qualified despite the fact we're over the NIQ limit, but solid as he is no-one really wants to see him play for Ireland!

Robbie Henshaw is head and shoulders above the other 15 candidates, no pun intended. At centre its more about identifying who isn't going to play. It'll be frustrating if Leinster use him at 12. I'd almost be willing to give them an Ulster 12 just to stop that happening!

[Pete330v2]

I'm more and more coming round to seeing Henshaw as the successor to Kearney at 15- and we do need to identify a successor quickly. People are saying move Payne back there, but given he's 30 he would be as much a stopgap solution at fullback as he is at centre. He's going to be 34 at the next World Cup. Zebo looks like he has potential in attack but tunes out at times too- seems to mix the good with the bad in most games he plays there although I feel he has definite promise. Felix Jones is retired. O'Hallornan is seemingly out in the wilderness, not rated. It says a lot that Nucifora was willing to allow Louis Ludik to stay at Ulster to become Irish qualified despite the fact we're over the NIQ limit, but solid as he is no-one really wants to see him play for Ireland!

Robbie Henshaw is head and shoulders above the other 15 candidates, no pun intended. At centre its more about identifying who isn't going to play. It'll be frustrating if Leinster use him at 12. I'd almost be willing to give them an Ulster 12 just to stop that happening!

Stuart Olding Notch???

[Sin é]

Great insight here from Lynne Cantwell.


Lynne Cantwell: ‘Do we have under-developed rugby decision-makers?’

Our Six Nations columnist reflects on what Ireland can learn ahead of the trip to Twickenham.

IN SPORT, THE word ‘leader’ can often be thrown around with godly sort of connotations.
In rugby, a leader is a player who manages demanding situations well, provides direction in the face of challenge and exercises a high degree of control under pressure.

From that point of view, Ireland lacked players who managed the game against France last weekend. Joe Schmidt needs people to grow into those roles and manage games intelligently based on how the games unfold. It was interesting to watch Paul O’Connell on the BBC during the game. Freshly retired from the game, he naturally commentated with a present player’s mindset.

He highlighted a main tactic by France, which would exploit one of Ireland weaknesses coming into this Six Nations campaigns and also the French game. The French front row substitutes were tactically called upon to make maximum impact in the second half, against a fatiguing Irish pack.

Guy Novès introduced that front row with 35 minutes to go and it ended up being the deciding of the game. O’Connell felt that was coming. Fiona Coghlan, the ex-Ireland captain, will roll her eyes at me offering my scrum observations, but from a game management point of view it was clear that France had a stronger scrum.

In that instance, it’s important that the pack leader or front row to be able to tactically manipulate the situation to get Ireland out of that position underneath their posts when they were still leading.

Whether it is collapsing scrums or countering the angles the French are bringing, Ireland needed out of that position. France showed greater nous to score the try than Ireland did in defending it.

Tommy O’Donnell was head down, scrummaging hard to offer bulk, compensating for a struggling scrum when France scored. Ian Madigan, fresh on the pitch, stood nervously wide defending his try line. An out-half’s defensive position was exploited by Wales similarly the week before.

Players must know their own individual role, but recognise threats as a collective. ‘Leaders’ need to come together on the pitch and say, ‘What’s happening here? What are we going to do to counter this and get us out of this position?’ I think that was lacking.

From that point of view, Ireland lacked players who managed the game against France last weekend. Joe Schmidt needs people to grow into those roles and manage games intelligently based on how the games unfold. It was interesting to watch Paul O’Connell on the BBC during the game. Freshly retired from the game, he naturally commentated with a present player’s mindset.

He highlighted a main tactic by France, which would exploit one of Ireland weaknesses coming into this Six Nations campaigns and also the French game. The French front row substitutes were tactically called upon to make maximum impact in the second half, against a fatiguing Irish pack.

Players must know their own individual role, but recognise threats as a collective. ‘Leaders’ need to come together on the pitch and say, ‘What’s happening here? What are we going to do to counter this and get us out of this position?’ I think that was lacking.
It’s like having an older brother around the house and he’s making all the decisions. Then he goes to Australia and you realise you’re the one who needs to organise presents for your parents’ anniversary and all those things. You’ve got to step into those shoes.
I don’t mean to be overtly negative here. This defeat in Paris brings Ireland into a really valuable learning process. Before the Six Nations, I wrote about the championship being viewed as a vehicle for genuine growth and development, and the game management maturity most certainly applies in that sense.

The players can learn so much from this poor performance and, with the right feedback, learn to make more effective decisions based on what’s happening in the game.

The learning potential here is huge and the learning process can be quite quick when they have a chance to put it into action so soon.

You hear that Schmidt is very controlling and players have often mentioned the stress of Ireland’s video analysis sessions. The perception may be that Schmidt’s style of coaching and his demands are actually removing players’ ability to make decisions for themselves.

But I don’t believe that Schmidt is trying to have complete, 100% control of everything because he doesn’t believe the players can do it themselves. Joe is a former teacher and I believe he’s trying to actively teach the players how to manage the game better and make decisions for themselves.

The players need to meet him halfway. I think what he’s hoping for is a combination of providing template plays to work from but encouraging players to react to what the defence and attack are doing to find the space.

It’s up to you as a player to read how the play unfolds and to use your own game reasoning as to which option to take. Sometimes that will be to pass the ball to width, but other times the conditions and circumstances will mean that’s not a good idea.
The trip to Twickenham has become all the more fascinating. I know historically that our big performances against England are emotionally fuelled, but I’m not a big fan of emotionally-fuelled games.


They can be truly special and we’re the best at them, but I think it’s been shown that it’s not sustainable. Italian rugby has demonstrated that. I will be more interested in what Ireland have learned from the last two games.

I hope Schmidt will not make big personnel changes beyond those enforced by injury. Last week’s painful defeat is worthless if we don’t apply what we’ve learned to the next challenge.

Whether that means Ireland will beat England is a different thing. The alternative is to change the team and heed the calls to bring in the young guns, but then you’re just left with a team completely made up of inexperienced decision-makers.

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