Ulster 2015/2016 Part 2

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He was just coming through and then decided he wanted to play for Scotland

No choice but to show him the door - NIQ spots are too precious to spend on a position of strength

Contention certainly but for, say 12-13, definite first choice between Bowe, Trimble, Gilroy and himself? - dont thing you can say that

I did, at the time, because he is younger than Bowe and Trimble. Only question was whether we could keep him happy enough to retain him in the short term until he replaced them in the long term. We couldn't, and if he hadn't shown the ambition to leave he would have probably stagnated so- thats how it goes.

"I sense another announcement very soon.

Also a less exciting signing from England."

Courtesy of KOTH from over the way.

So Luke Marshall signs a new deal until 2018 and confirmed Scholes is off to Edinburgh

Ulster's Director of Rugby, Les Kiss, said:

"We're delighted that Luke has committed his future to us, particularly given that there was a high level of interest in him. Luke is one of our core group of indigenous players which is the bedrock of this squad and, at just 24, we believe that his best rugby is still ahead of him."

Commenting on his departure, Kiss said: "It was obviously a tough decision for Rory and it's disappointing to lose a player of his quality."

"Our Academy has done a great job in producing local young talent that has gone on to perform well at PRO12 and Champions Cup level. Rory's departure will give more opportunities to our current crop of young players such as Jacob Stockdale, Jack Owens and Robert Lyttle."

So there was the announcement which is a pleasing one no doubt. I wonder what the less exciting signing from England will be, out-half cover perhaps ?

Not sure how pleasing it is with Scholes going, he has really come on this season and would have been nice to see him kick on some more in an Ulster shirt. Hopefully he gets more game time at Edinburgh and does it there, except against us, and will come back in the future

The English announcement will probably be Heaney or McKinney coming back

Shame about Scholes.

Three or four good articles about Les Kiss on the Bele Tele website today. Worth a read.

marty2086 wrote:Not sure how pleasing it is with Scholes going, he has really come on this season and would have been nice to see him kick on some more in an Ulster shirt. Hopefully he gets more game time at Edinburgh and does it there, except against us, and will come back in the future

The English announcement will probably be Heaney or McKinney coming back

Sorry Marty I meant Luke staying. Agreed Re: Scholes but hopefully it's a great move for the lad.

I know it's not the done thing to have highly paid squad players... but in the case of our half backs, Ulster really need to get their wallets out to make sure we FINALLy get an IQ half back backup we can rely on.

I personally like what Paul Marshall brings to the table, but perhaps it's more beneficial to see what he brings coming off the bench. When Pienaar is away with SA, or in need of a rest (as he often is), Marshall is not who you want playing 70 odd minutes.

At outhalf, the situation is perhaps worse (all depending on how and if Nelson develops there). IMO we need to REALLY look damn hard and see who has an Irish granny and pay big.

The way I see it, not only do Ulster need a backup out-half, but dare I say Paddy Jackson could benefit from somebody behind him who might be close enough to rip the ten jersey off him.

geoff999rugby wrote:In that year (10-11) the pecking order, as wingers was Trimble, Gilroy/Whitten with Seymour/Cochrane/Emerick seen as the best of the rest in equal measure

Danielli was a first choice wing too(!) but was injured for a lot of that season, as was Trimble which was why Emerick was signed short term. He got all of two caps, one of which should have included a red card for barging Carr into the advertising hoardings. So on the back of injuries and signing an American eedjit, every Tom, Mark and Jonny were tried at some point but when Gilroy scored those two tries on his debut he looked to the manor born. Seymour got his few starts because he did OK but not well enough to hold his place when there were other options available.

Up to now there aren't many indigenous players who have left Ulster that would supplant the current incumbent, with perhaps the only one being Paddy McAllister, so in general they seem to have been getting it right.

It's good news that Marshall has signed on but I would have definitely tried to hold onto Scholes ahead of Ludik as he is a player that Cunningham will regret letting go.

Problem is clive, does the budget leave room for spending big after signing Pienaar, Coetzee and Piutau?

After next season though we have a project slot open with Herbst and Ludik both becoming IQ and with Sexton, Marsh, Madigan, Keatley, Hanrahan and Jackson all still around it may be an option though did Munster sign Bleyendaal as a 10 or 12 as that could be a factor in it all too

Why is Scholes going to Edinburgh? Is he Scottish qualified?

Scholes is not Scottish qualified and Ulster did offer him a decent contract - he chose to go

I knew there was someone else that year and it wasn't Bowe - you are of course correct it was Danielli

Outstanding 2016 contract are:

Peter Browne
Paul Rowley
Ian Humphreys
Ruaidhrí Murphy
Willie Faloon
Bronson Ross
Sam Windsor
Clive Ross
Conor Joyce

geoff999rugby wrote:Outstanding 2016 contract are:

Peter Browne RE-SIGN
Paul Rowley REPLACE
Ian Humphreys REPLACE
Ruaidhrí Murphy RELEASE
Willie Faloon RETIRE? (if not - RE-SIGN
Bronson Ross RE-SIGN
Sam Windsor RELEASE (Nelson to 10)
Clive Ross REPLACE
Conor Joyce RELEASE

Thoughts???

clivemcl wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Outstanding 2016 contract are:

Peter Browne RE-SIGN
Paul Rowley REPLACE
Ian Humphreys REPLACE
Ruaidhrí Murphy RELEASE
Willie Faloon RETIRE? (if not - RE-SIGN
Bronson Ross RE-SIGN
Sam Windsor RELEASE (Nelson to 10)
Clive Ross REPLACE
Conor Joyce RELEASE

Thoughts???

Hopefully Browne won't become one of those who needs the incentive of a new contract to perform but should at least get another year

Humphreys should be resigned on the cheap and made to do nothing but hold the tackle bag just to see how its meant to be done

Cant we resign Murphy in the hope he might one day talk Pocock into coming?

With Herbst, Ah You and Lutton is there any need to resign B.Ross?

If Faloon is cleared to play he should be given a short term deal to build up his fitness and see if he can comeback to a decent level

I'd be interested to see what Kiss could do with Windsor, he does look to have some ability to him but could do with a bit more consistency and better decision making

Murphy is on a salary 3 times anyone else on that list - he has to go

geoff999rugby wrote:Murphy is on a salary 3 times anyone else on that list - he has to go

He must go down as one of Ulster's biggest turkey signings. Up there with Rob Dewey. Has he even played?

Regarding Seymour, I never rated him at Ulster. He only showed one spark I remember away to Munster. Did we have Nagusa then? He has been a try machine in France.

Scholes should be good enough for first choice at Edinburgh, hopefully he will develop and come back.

geoff999rugby wrote:Scholes is not Scottish qualified and Ulster did offer him a decent contract - he chose to go

I knew there was someone else that year and it wasn't Bowe - you are of course correct it was Danielli

There was story that Seymour looked at Danielli and looked at Trimble and decided to play for Scotland!

clivemcl wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Outstanding 2016 contract are:

Peter Browne RE-SIGN
Paul Rowley REPLACE
Ian Humphreys REPLACE
Ruaidhrí Murphy RELEASE
Willie Faloon RETIRE? (if not - RE-SIGN
Bronson Ross RE-SIGN
Sam Windsor RELEASE (Nelson to 10)
Clive Ross REPLACE
Conor Joyce RELEASE

Thoughts???

Browne started the season well enough then went AWOL and now it’s contract time he suddenly seems to have got his mojo back – but is one good game against Cardiff Blues enough to sway the jury? Ulster have been missing both Henderson and Tuohy for most of the season, and Bryn in his wisdom still let Stevenson go mid season, with Kiss/Doak prepared to draft Diack or Ross in to cover at lock - so is he really needed?
How many spare locks do Ulster really need? VdM and Henderson are obviously first choice with Tuohy on the bench. O’Connor is improving all the time and pretty much on a par with Tuohy right now. Treadwell is supposed to be a prospect and will need to be tested in the first team. That leaves few enough opportunities for guys like Donnan and Thompson to get any time to develop with a decent pack around them. Add to that Diack who has arguably done as well at lock as in the backrow and Ulster seem reasonably well covered.
Supposedly Browne played a fair bit at 8 and certainly on his last showing he won at least three breakdown turnovers - those skills were impressive and he made his tackles too. On the Cardiff form he would be ahead of Roger Wilson, but I just can’t see him ever being selected as a backrow while AC is in charge of the forwards, so if he is signed and Ulster don’t have the blight of injuries then he isn’t going to play and will only reduce the opportunities for the Academy guys further.

Apart from Browne, Clive Ross should be considered because he always gives 100% but he lacks ability, and if there is anyone else coming in then he would have to make way.

toml wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Murphy is on a salary 3 times anyone else on that list - he has to go

He must go down as one of Ulster's biggest turkey signings. Up there with Rob Dewey. Has he even played?

Regarding Seymour, I never rated him at Ulster. He only showed one spark I remember away to Munster. Did we have Nagusa then? He has been a try machine in France.

Scholes should be good enough for first choice at Edinburgh, hopefully he will develop and come back.

IIRC Chris Cochrane and Mark McCrea both had sparks of genius against Munster too! Jim Nagusa had already gone.

Seymour was with us at a time when I went to nearly all the Ravens games and you could see he was a class above the likes of McCrea and Cochrane. Having said that, losing Scholes is a bigger blow because had he stayed he could have usurped either Trimble or Bowe within that two year period he's signed for at Edinburgh.

Small mercies- at least he isn't signed up for three years as a project. The IRFU/Ulster will have a chance to get him back if he does well before the SRU can cap him. I'm still very, very frustrated he's leaving as I think the other players we have have in that position have a lot less potential than him

15-9): C Gilroy, R Scholes, L Marshall, S Olding, J Stockdale, P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): K McCall, R Herring (captain), R Lutton, P Browne, F van der Merwe, R Diack, C Henry, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, C Black, A Warwick, R Wilson, S Reidy, P Marshall, S Windsor, D Cave.

Cracking team, Gromit. Well, should be more than good enough for five points at home against Zebre.

Nothing being left to chance there, a side to take a bonus point I believe.

Olding at 12

I hope he and Marshall gel the way McCloskey and Marshall have, that centre partnership could be starting a lot next season.

It's really got to be five points and nothing less hasn't it. We don't stop the rot now we're in difficulties

I think every point counted before the two losses, for a top 4 finish, now every point counts just to stay in the top 6. We should win this, and we should take the 5 points, but if we continue on as we have been playing we could miss out. Can't see us not getting the win at least though.

Looking forward to seeing how Marshall and Olding get on.

A poster over from the other forum says we are signing a 9 from Connacht I assume, a 10 from 'the mainland', and we are still expected to get a backrower from Leinster.

Names being suggested are John Cooney from Connacht (and hopefully not Porter), Peter Lydon from London Scottish (formerly played for Stade), and the usual Conan/Murphy wishlist from Leinster.

The poster did say an '8' from Leinster. Considering Kiss said he wanted to use Coetzee as an 8, I have a feeling our Leinster signing will be of squad filler ability...

Has Lydon played much at 10? At Scottish hes a 15 and I think most if not all his games for Stade were there too, he is a place kicking 15 though

Any of the Leinster back row options would be fantastic for us and would likely start the majority of Pro 12 games. I would honestly be surprised if this does come true, as Geoff has said previously not many players seem interested in moving up north. If it is true, then the choices in order of likelihood (in my opinion) would be:

Heaslip - no chance
O'Brien - no chance
Ruddock - no chance
van der Flier - no chance
Conan - I would have said no chance before his name was mentioned previously on here as he is second only to Heaslip
Murphy - so far the most likely option but he has recently stated he is working hard to regain his form/place at Leinster
Ryan - he could potentially move but he still starts a large number of games for Leinster
Leavy - another potential option but he hasn't really had his chance with Leinster yet and he was considered ahead of JvdF at one stage

To be perfectly honest any of these players would be an outstanding signing for us. In fact, reading that list again I seriously doubt that Leinster would wish to give any of these players up. Heaslip is 32, O'Brien is a walking sick note and many of them are unavailable due to Ireland commitments. All of them are getting regular game time at the minute.

Anyone else tearing their hair out yet?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Anyone else tearing their hair out yet?

Can't none left. tore it all out last week. I'm now tearing out my beautifully crafted wig

As much as I'd love Nick to get his hatrick, Browne deserved that.

In general though... Still woeful. Also... Awful refereeing performance.

A TBP is the absolute bare minimum. And not expect me to be happy if/when we achieve it.

Darren Cave carrying on with his recent tackling form...

Here's Wee P on to get our bonus point try...

Ha! You will never know if I was being serious or sarcastic!

That performance was no laughing matter.

Well, we did it. Much better in the first half but that second half was same old same old.

Happy to get the 5 points, but we are still dire. Zebre made us look good in the first half, and we made Zebre look good in the second. Players looked knackered after 40 minutes of rugby.

Have to say that big Nick Williams has been the player of the season for us. Ironic, isn't it? Browne continues to improve, so at least that's a positive. Stockdale looked lost today.

Olding really annoyed me when he passed to the tiny Marshall for the forth try. That's two games he could almost have walked it in.

We won't win anything playing as we are.

Munchkin wrote:
Olding really annoyed me when he passed to the tiny Marshall for the forth try. That's two games he could almost have walked it in.

I thought that first time, but he was being covered across by the blindside winger

OK, maybe I've a soft spot for him, but I honestly think Paul Marshall brings a spark which can, at times, be vital. For the try, he takes the ball from the rick and runs laterally briefly. He has reputation for darts, and the truth is he drew players in and made the break that came after easier. And he sprinted his ass off to be there on Oldings shoulder whether the pass was necessary on not.

Pienaar would have passed from the base of the rick. The Zebre defence would have no guessing to do and pushed up quicker on our attack.

Just my opinion. I think we can all agree Pienaar is in poor form. I hope UR put him up in a spa for this two weeks!

toml wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
Olding really annoyed me when he passed to the tiny Marshall for the forth try. That's two games he could almost have walked it in.

I thought that first time, but he was being covered across by the blindside winger

I did see the cover, but thought Olding was in if he went left. You're probably right though, and maybe I need to look at it again.

Another player who deserves a mention is Luke Marshall. I thought he had an excellent game. Great passing overall and he picked some excellent lines. Almost an entirely different player from his awkward crash ball antics a few seasons back.

Luke is back to his best, if not better. After his run of injuries he did say that he was going to work on those skills he seemed to lose, thanks to the Ulster coaches. He was true to his word, and I think our best centre pairing are now him and McCloskey.

I feel that a lot of our players at the.minute feel a huge pressure to perform, but when the pressure is on they force it, and try to create individual brilliance which often leads to poor decision making and mistakes. I feel there are still positives from players, but the team as a unit just isn't working well. Lack of trust perhaps. Or the disruption isn't allowing training to build structures and partnerships maybe. The worry is that the longer we underperforming, the more pressure there is on the players. That may continue to lead to more players trying too hard, and high risk have-a-go madness.

Where are our cool heads? Do we have any?

Strange also how players can have such night and day performances, even within a game. Gilroy was king of the high balls in first half, and went significantly off the boil in second half.

It's difficult for me to understand how some players can blow so hot and cold.

Well that was better than the last two weeks, especially defensively and at the breakdown. Stressful waiting to the last few minutes to seal it and even then my heart was in my mouth when Paul Marshall nearly fumbled it! We're still not getting enough tempo into our game to really worry defences despite the talent we have in the back line. When it gets slow we're hitting it up with a forward one pass from the ruck, don't dominate the collision, and then we're looking lateral against a set defence. We're not getting quick ball in our phase play and we're easy to read. Zebre were well beaten but not humiliated, and fair play to them as they came to play rugby and fight hard and thats what they did. Their heads never dropped.

Thought Luke Marshall was superb and isn't far away from making the break through to Ireland again. Picking good lines, showing really good awareness of where the support is, kicking well from hand, showing a range of passing and generally making very good decisions.

Pienaar is a bit of a curate's egg right now, his box kicking was superb last night and resulted in several penalties and yet he is not helping with our tempo problems at all.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Another player who deserves a mention is Luke Marshall. I thought he had an excellent game. Great passing overall and he picked some excellent lines. Almost an entirely different player from his awkward crash ball antics a few seasons back.

Yes he's a case study in why Anscombe had to go - so is Nick Williams.

Marshall is maybe a tad shy of pace to be a really top 13 but he's certainly faster than Cave and makes his tackles. Injuries permitting he should get a run there to the end of the season - when Payne returns he should drop back to 15 and leave Luke at 13.

Ulster continue to show their reliance on Williams. When he tired Ulster faded, and you know he's playing well when two ex-backrows like Ward and Ferris are wondering if Coetzee can fill Nick's boots.

The really worrying thing is how directionless the team look. Kiss is obviously trying to institute a 'ball in hand' game, but without any strategy to create openings or mismatches (other than give it to the big lawd). Playing off the cuff is all well and good, but some players are suffering, especially Pienaar. Ruan looks at his best when he's acting out the lines he's been given, I'm not so sure he's as good at making it up as he goes along. A few too many times in recent games he has gone for the wrong option and again last night butchered what should have been Nick's third, with a panic pass to Herring and this after going to the wrong side the phase before. We haven't seen the pressure from him for the charge-down he got for a long time so maybe he has been carrying a niggle or all the rugby he has been forced to play is finally catching up but I was calling for Marshall to be on for the last quarter.

Peter Browne is not only worth a contract, but on that form will be hard to shift out of the team. He certainly has the pace and skills to play 6 and I'd have him ahead of both Diack and Wilson if he's not needed at Lock.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Another player who deserves a mention is Luke Marshall. I thought he had an excellent game. Great passing overall and he picked some excellent lines. Almost an entirely different player from his awkward crash ball antics a few seasons back.

Yes he's a case study in why Anscombe had to go - so is Nick Williams.

Marshall is maybe a tad shy of pace to be a really top 13 but he's certainly faster than Cave and makes his tackles. Injuries permitting he should get a run there to the end of the season - when Payne returns he should drop back to 15 and leave Luke at 13.

Ulster continue to show their reliance on Williams. When he tired Ulster faded, and you know he's playing well when two ex-backrows like Ward and Ferris are wondering if Coetzee can fill Nick's boots.

The really worrying thing is how directionless the team look. Kiss is obviously trying to institute a 'ball in hand' game, but without any strategy to create openings or mismatches (other than give it to the big lawd). Playing off the cuff is all well and good, but some players are suffering, especially Pienaar. Ruan looks at his best when he's acting out the lines he's been given, I'm not so sure he's as good at making it up as he goes along. A few too many times in recent games he has gone for the wrong option and again last night butchered what should have been Nick's third, with a panic pass to Herring and this after going to the wrong side the phase before. We haven't seen the pressure from him for the charge-down he got for a long time so maybe he has been carrying a niggle or all the rugby he has been forced to play is finally catching up but I was calling for Marshall to be on for the last quarter.

Peter Browne is not only worth a contract, but on that form will be hard to shift out of the team. He certainly has the pace and skills to play 6 and I'd have him ahead of both Diack and Wilson if he's not needed at Lock.

I still think that Luke Marshall is better at 12 anyway and he certainly has all of the attributes to play there. However he may find it very difficult to get much game time there and he will probably play at 13 for the majority of his time at Ulster. I'm not sure how I feel about that to be honest but it is what it is. We have 3 excellent players fighting for the 12 shirt and he is certainly playing well at 13.