Rafa gets wild card for Buenos Aires

http://www.canindia.com/djokovic-insists-nadal-still-remains-king-of-clay

What is your opinion ??  Do you agree or is Novak just being patronising ?
Over to you socal

I think Novak is referring to Nadal's past record...after all he is the clay GOAT. However, is Rafa NOW Novak's biggest threat? I think most would say not unless Rafa's game suddenly turns around.
The game is moving on and although Rafa is still only 29 he's not moving with it. He needs to flatten out his game and become even more aggressive - he has the skills to partly do this but not the coaching set up. Something has to give you feel for Rafa to take the next step otherwise his best days will continue to be behind him and he'll be no threat to anyone, never mind Novak!

Totally agree ..Novak is no mug hence he  is playing down his own chances of winning the F0....heat off

Well coaching change may not be out of the question for Rafa as didn't Toni drop hints at such things prior to the Australian Open or following his early exit? We haven't heard thar before from Uncle Toni.

If you had watched Rafa during the exhos at IPTL and Abu Dhabi, you would have noticed that Rafa DID flatten his shots, even the CC FH and was hitting with depth. He was also hitting a decent BHDTL. He beat Raonic in straight sets at the Abu Dhabi final and Raonic was playing well.

The problem with Rafa is that he couldnt bring all that to an actual atp or a slam match. He reverted to his 'old' way of playing more often than not. This is the problem he has yet to solve.

Does anyone know what the story is with Rafa's racquet? Last year he briefly tried to change the racquet, then went back to the old one saying he would switch in the off-season, but I have not heard much about it since then.

Has he switched now, or is he still playing with the old one?

Haddie-nuff wrote:http://www.canindia.com/djokovic-insists-nadal-still-remains-king-of-clay

What is your opinion ??

It is not clear to me from the article exactly what Novak said.

The article did not seem to be saying that Novak was suggesting that Rafa was a bigger favorite than himself - that would obviously be untrue.

He seemed to be only comparing Rafa to the remainder of the opposition.  If he is just saying that from among all the opponents, he thinks Rafa is the most likely one to be the most difficult to beat, that sounds fairly reasonable to me.  Even at last year's form, Rafa was probably 3rd or 4th best player on clay, and it is not unreasonable to expect he can do better than that this year.

summerblues wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:http://www.canindia.com/djokovic-insists-nadal-still-remains-king-of-clay

What is your opinion ??

It is not clear to me from the article exactly what Novak said.

The article did not seem to be saying that Novak was suggesting that Rafa was a bigger favorite than himself - that would obviously be untrue.

He seemed to be only comparing Rafa to the remainder of the opposition.  If he is just saying that from among all the opponents, he thinks Rafa is the most likely one to be the most difficult to beat, that sounds fairly reasonable to me.  Even at last year's form, Rafa was probably 3rd or 4th best player on clay, and it is not unreasonable to expect he can do better than that this year.

Well I too am not sure but Im taking the cynical, if not realistic view that  Novak is taking the pressure off himself.
The FO  title is the one he most covets and that if Rafa is ever to be a force to be reckoned with it will be then if ever.
Should Rafa find his form again, it will have to be on clay, and then Novak can say I told you so. !!!
or is he just being patronising..? Interesting that there is no comment from socal ..Im sure he would be able to tell us what is on Novak's mind

What Djoker is saying is nobody has achieved anywhere near what the rallying macaque has achieved and his success was remarkable, however these days even on clay Nadal is not a big obstacle which is why he was brushed aside by him easily last few times they met on it.

Paying his respects does not mean he thinks Nadal will win the French again

GG... give it a rest. Your baseless accusations are not going to help 606v2.

It's not steroids, its some blood plasma magic purifying god knows what injections, so illegal that that he could not do it in Europe and did it on some Farm in Texas

So please let's be precise here

But anyway, as far as he can beat Djoko at the RG, I don't mind if Rafa is taking chopped carbon nano tubes

Sorry mate, you've been asked twice already, clearly you have no respect for the forum and its gonna have to cost you
Lf I got rid of your quote too just in case

temp you saying that to me?

That news is old, i'm not making anything up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2449179/Rafael-Nadal-How-broken-star-rebuilt.html

7 Oct 2013 ... REVEALED: How broken Nadal was rebuilt with the help of blood spinning ... and  the use of Plasma Rich Platelet therapy, often known as bloodspinning.

Both Haas and Blake had also done the PRP treatment. Its Plasma being used, not red blood cells. Its not illegal and Rafa done it in Europe, in Spain.

Perhaps both Haas and Blake done theirs in NA?

Dear lord did I open the door to that cr@p again .. what is the matter with you people... no such vile accusations have been made about any other player than Nadal..

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Paying his respects does not mean he thinks Nadal will win the French again

Well at least for once JM we are on the same page

Rafa done that in 2010, after MC hence he skipped Barcelona that year. Its very painful and he was complaining about the pain when playing in Rome the following week. Haas too mentioned how painful the process was but its effective for Haas too as he came back and did well in the tour.

The so called HGH effect, if any, was just for some 24 hours or at best a few days, I doubt that could enhance Rafa's performance any further when he was already the king of clay at that time. He did the treatment a second time in Spain after winning Wimbledon that year, before going to S Africa for the World Cup. Again I dont see how any HGH effect affecting his performance when he wasnt playing any tournament after the treatment.

I think he did the PRP treatment as and when his knees needed it; he skipped Miami in 2013 after winning at IW to treat his knees before the clay season. Still, his knees werent in ideal conditions for grass and he lost in R1 at Wimbledon.

I cannot believe this kind of accusation is still being made about Rafa .. for sure if he was ever on any illegal substance that promoted his performance he could bloody well do with it now

And it will continue throughout sadly...

I know of no other player, during the course of their career, that has had so much sh@t thrown at him, baseless accusations that have never been proven. Would anyone dare say the same about the unbelievable performances that Novak is producing.???. not on your life !!!

There are reservations about a certain chamber which is similar to Harry Potter's chamber. Full of secrets!

Well lk..I know what you are insinuating but there has been no proof and I would be the last to make such an accusation. But Rafa is trying to pull himself up by his boot laces and still the cr@p keeps flying.. what is it about this man than seems to attract such venom. Ive yet to understand.
Rafa WAS undoubtedly the King of Clay and I will forever remember him as that.. but I think the statement made by Djoko was patronising in an attempt to make it look good when, I fear he will, win the FO

I say watch this space Haddie. Should Novak not win the FO, I am sure his detractors will be in celebration mode.

I think we know why Nadal seems to be put under scrutiny by some...

Yes lk .. 2016 is Rafa's Waterloo and my fingers are forever crossed.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Dear lord did I open the door to that cr@p again .. what is the matter with you people... no such vile accusations have been made about any other player than Nadal..

Not true- we see people saying the same thing on here about Djokovic, and do a google search on Federer dope- you will see blog post after blog post created by haters saying the same stuff. Fans always think their guy is the only one being attacked. Not so.

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Both Haas and Blake had also done the PRP treatment. Its Plasma being used, not red blood cells.  Its not illegal and Rafa done it in Europe, in Spain.

Perhaps both Haas and Blake done theirs in NA?

You can't ignore the real factual reasons why PRP creates suspicions. The article presents the positive angle and the HGH effect it talks about it certainly a brief bump that really isn't the issue. The issue is that doctors have used that bump and the therapeutic exemptions given for the levels it will show in the blood to mask other true doping.  Some of the most famous doctors in prp treatments, even the pioneers of it have been caught smuggling peds from Canada into USA, been banned from performing the procedures on athletes in various sports worldwide, athtletes who have used these doctors have been caught doping.  That's all facts and can't be ignored- it's a procedure perfect for peds masking and has been used as such by it's most famous doctors and world class  athletes.

Now that certainly doesn't mean every single person who uses it is doing so to mask peds.  That's a ludicrous assertion and many on here are right- without other proof- it's not fair to just point a finger and say-  he used prp so he doped.    At same time- it's not shocking or even unreasonable for it to create a little smoke because unlike many other medical procedures- we know without a doupt this one has been used for doping.

There's a possibility of course but that's provided the recipient of the true doping is/was still in competition making full use of the masked effect; if not, that defeats the purpose (of making use of the masked effect).

He also got stem cell treatment:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/2014/11/10/nadal-to-receive-stem-cell-treatment-for-back-pain/18807341/

Sure these are all public, so we can only assume what extra options are ticked on the surgery table

He is a Cyborg.

Belovedluckyboy wrote:There's a possibility of course but that's provided the recipient of the true doping is/was still in competition making full use of the masked effect; if not, that defeats the purpose (of making use of the masked effect).

lol-- no that's not correct.  Sorry, but that isn't how it works.  sure, there are doping regimens that require constant cycling up and down while the athlete is performing, but there is just as much out there where a brief period of doping during a training period, during a pretend or even real rehabilitation phase creates a base that enhances a players natural abilities.  Hence, performance enhancers.  You could have doped a year ago and under the crazy modern technology now- be receiving it's benefits a year later. Most athletes that dope aren't just under a constant stream of meds.

I suggest you do some research into all this. Look at the doctors who actually performed the procedures on the athletes (whoever they may be) under question. Look at what types of procedures are used to mask peds. it could be an eye opener.

Well since corruption is potentially now in tennis, a little nasty stuff is way more easier to have been  arranged, no bags of cash in Hotel lobbies.

Watched a few days ago the Lance cycling movie, and I expect a as big a scandal in Tennis in next few years after Fed & Nadal retire and speak up

TRuffin wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Dear lord did I open the door to that cr@p again .. what is the matter with you people... no such vile accusations have been made about any other player than Nadal..

Not true- we see people saying the same thing on here about Djokovic, and do a google search on Federer dope-  you will see blog post after blog post created by haters saying the same stuff.   Fans always think their guy is the only one being attacked. Not so.  

O come on this has been going on about Rafa for at least two years or more.. show me where such accusations have been made about Federer... GOD 606 v 2 would have been closed down had anyone dare to do so.
As for Novak the only insinuation I have ever seen is about the egg chamber not PEDS

Haddie-nuff wrote:

TRuffin wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Dear lord did I open the door to that cr@p again .. what is the matter with you people... no such vile accusations have been made about any other player than Nadal..

Not true- we see people saying the same thing on here about Djokovic, and do a google search on Federer dope-  you will see blog post after blog post created by haters saying the same stuff.   Fans always think their guy is the only one being attacked. Not so.  

O come on this has been going on about Rafa for at least two years or more.. show me where such accusations have been made about Federer... GOD 606 v 2 would have been closed down had anyone dare to do so.
As for Novak the only insinuation I have ever seen is about the egg chamber not PEDS

Here you go Haddie- you asked me to show you. like I said in my post Google Federer doping and this is the first entry

Roger Federer is Doping


www.federerisdoping.blogspot.com

created by a nadal fan as retaliation for the famous blog that focused on nadal.

if you scroll down you will see blog and website after website by haters and fans of other players created saying this about Federer.

I don't blame you for not liking it being said about Nadal, but my point remains-- statements like no one except nadal gets this horrible treatment that I constantly see on here and elsewhere is just wrong. As I keep saying in all aspects of internet hating on players- EVERY spotlight player gets hate thrown at them by fans of other players.

Frankly I do not wish to continue this discussion.. it is way off topic and as the OP of this thread I would request you refer back to my original question..

http://www.canindia.com/djokovic-insists-nadal-still-remains-king-of-clay

What is your opinion ?? Do you agree or is Novak just being patronising

I have alerted the mods and will request the thread be closed

Nobody cares for Djoko thoughts and neither for a 13GS champion getting wild cards.

Hilarious topic, but a good place to talk about medicine

Line. Sand.

As H-N says - keep it on topic please.

Is there a full interview anywhere? Presumably Djoko must have said a bit more than that?

Not sure that he needed to say anything at all JM which is precisely my point.

As for those who do not want to comment on his reasons then I suggest they take their snidely little comments elsewhere

These guys gets questioned all the time - he has to say something. What he said seems fairly polite and respectful, if a little bland.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/tennis/76470823/rafael-nadal-still-the-claycourt-benchmark-novak-djokovic-says

More complete answer here. It's obviously a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

Reasonable ? yes but totally unnecessary in my view

Am I cynical.??. yes may be I am .. am I realistic?? yes I think I am

Novak knows by making this obvious statement, he takes the pressure off himself if Rafa, and I SAY IF RAFA, finds his form during the coming clay court season and in particular the FO..

I do not think I need to add anything further.

H-n, I am not sure what is bothering you about Novak's statements.  Rafa used to make statements much like that all the time himself.

Now I recognize that Rafa was saying it because he is a good and humble kid, while Novak is saying it because he is a patronizing little twerp who is trying to take pressure off himself, but not everyone will be able to appreciate the difference.

summerblues wrote:H-n, I am not sure what is bothering you about Novak's statements.  Rafa used to make statements much like that all the time himself.

Now I recognize that Rafa was saying it because he is a good and humble kid, while Novak is saying it because he is a patronizing little twerp who is trying to take pressure off himself, but not everyone will be able to appreciate the difference.

:laugh:Well you said it I didn't !!!!  Now if that doesn't extract a comment from his No.1. fan nothing will.
But I appreciate your view point

Whatever Novak said in reply to the question then Novak would have been ridiculed. Had he said he was going to steamroller the opposition on clay then I am sure hordes would have leapt up saying he hasn't even won RG so how can he say that? It would have made Muhammad Ali sound modest. Now he gave the stock reply recognising Rafa for the legend he has become on clay and still it offends.

The way I see it is that this is Novak's way of keeping on his toes to make sure he doesn't slacken off. He was the same prior to his matches against Roger and Andy at the Australian Open. Deep down inside he is probably bubbling with confidence but his way of keeping a cap on it and keeping his feet on the ground is talking up his opponents to convince himself tough challenges lie ahead - even though he feels sure he will win.

Either way I don't think Rafa will be too fussed and the comments he is probably unaware of - he will be immersed in working hard to recover form and rebuild confidence and momentum going into the clay court season. He is an old hand now and isn't one to worry about what other players are saying.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Whatever Novak said in reply to the question then Novak would have been ridiculed. Had he said he was going to steamroller the opposition on clay then I am sure hordes would have leapt up saying he hasn't even won RG so how can he say that? It would have made Muhammad Ali sound modest. Now he gave the stock reply recognising Rafa for the legend he has become on clay and still it offends.

The way I see it is that this is Novak's way of keeping on his toes to make sure he doesn't slacken off. He was the same prior to his matches against Roger and Andy at the Australian Open. Deep down inside he is probably bubbling with confidence but his way of keeping a cap on it and keeping his feet on the ground is talking up his opponents to convince himself tough challenges lie ahead - even though he feels sure he will win.

Hardly did I say it offends ??? cmon CC  Rafa has been criticised numerous  occasions  for making  those kind of patronising comments either about Federer or Novak.. All par for course in my book

Haddie-nuff wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Whatever Novak said in reply to the question then Novak would have been ridiculed. Had he said he was going to steamroller the opposition on clay then I am sure hordes would have leapt up saying he hasn't even won RG so how can he say that? It would have made Muhammad Ali sound modest. Now he gave the stock reply recognising Rafa for the legend he has become on clay and still it offends.

The way I see it is that this is Novak's way of keeping on his toes to make sure he doesn't slacken off. He was the same prior to his matches against Roger and Andy at the Australian Open. Deep down inside he is probably bubbling with confidence but his way of keeping a cap on it and keeping his feet on the ground is talking up his opponents to convince himself tough challenges lie ahead - even though he feels sure he will win.

Hardly did I say it offends ??? cmon CC  Rafa has been criticised numerous  occasions  for making  those kind of patronising comments either about Federer or Novak.. All par for course in my book

Criticism I'd reserve for players opinions only if they are not respectful of other players. I can't recall Rafa being like that and neither can I recall Novak either. Comments I see like those from Novak are not sinister in anyway. I mean he trots out the same lines about his opponents quality even after losing slam finals so that is fair enough. Likewise with Rafa.

For one that has been the dominant force in tennis now for over a year I think Novak shows great humility and I do not take that lightly. In whatever warp of life or sport I cannot stand big-headed or boastfulness - if I see that trait in someone I will leap on it believe you me. Novak does not strike me in that way at all.

Lets see what happens over the spring (southern hemi) and summer clay seasons...if Rafa like 2015 doesn't win much I can guarantee you that Djokovic WILL NOT be making these statements again in the run up to French Open.

lydian wrote:Lets see what happens over the spring (southern hemi) and summer clay seasons...if Rafa like 2015 doesn't win much I can guarantee you that Djokovic WILL NOT be making these statements again in the run up to French Open.

I disagree as he is not one for coming out and saying he is going to crush all that stand before him. He'll always respect what the likes of Rafa has acheived. Prior to the final in Melbourne (despite having won nine of his last ten matches V Murray) he was still talking about how tough a match it was going to be. To be honest I don't see any of the top players being big headed or full of themselves - they all talk highly of each other.

lydian wrote:Lets see what happens over the spring (southern hemi) and summer clay seasons...if Rafa like 2015 doesn't win much I can guarantee you that Djokovic WILL NOT be making these statements again in the run up to French Open.

;)Yep again Lydian we are on the same page !!! "We know him so well"