England v Wales - let it all out thread

[yappysnap]

To hopefully stop the usual suspects from ruining more threads, could both nations wums just throw all of their toys out of the pram on this one?

Two weeks until the game and already it's like a full moon at the crazy house.

Thanks in advance

[bedfordwelsh]

Its going to be a blydi long two weeks that's for sure.

[majesticimperialman]

bedfordwelsh

You are so right.

I do not wan't to jinx England here. but being an Enland fan i wan't England to win.
Just like any Welsh fan wan't Wales to win.

If you look at both teams with unbiased eyes you would say that England shouold win this game no problem.

England have scored the most points have had the least points scored against them.

Wales all ways start off slow then get better has the tournament goes on...yet Wales do not seem to have got better has the tournament hs gone on. got a bit luckyer but not really improved from the first game.

England on the other hand started  slow and have improved every game. but the again on papaer/screen it looks like it is England's too lose.

But then what looks good on paper/screen does not all ways go that way on the field of play.

If i was to make a prediction England by 10 points.

COME ON ENGLAND.

[offload]

England shouold win this game no problem.

Therein may be England's problem. Over confident perhaps?

Wales are the more successful, experienced and settled team. They will be close to full strength and most players have been to Twickenham and won.

England have three wins (against the two worst teams and a very depleted Ireland), are top of the table, have a slam to aim at and home advantage.

Both teams are making mistakes and have not played to their potential. There's not much in it and the team that executes better on the day will win. Should be a cracker........

[RuggerRadge2611]

Anyone taking bets on how long it will be untill this thread gets locked?

[majesticimperialman]

offload.

(against the two worst teams and a very depleted Ireland)

Was it not the same Ireland team that Wales managed to get a draw against though?

[offload]

Previous matches won't make a shred of difference. The winner will be the team that raises it's game and executes on the day.  If you want to believe that England "should win no problem" that's up to you.

[majesticimperialman]

When you have Andy Nicol ( Scotland ) Keith Wood ( Ireland ) both saying that England will win.

Who am i to disagree with them.

I do agree with you previous matches won't make any difference at all. So why do we keep hearing that Wales are the more settled team in the 6ns? They ( Wales ) was the more settled team against Ireland yet they did not win the game. the game was a ( DRAW )
And Wales are the most settled team?

[RiscaGame]

offload.

(against the two worst teams and a very depleted Ireland)

Was it not the same Ireland team that Wales managed to get a draw against though?

Yes, away though.

He might be right this time (even a broken clock is right twice a day though), but Madge also thought that with our injuries England would beat Wales pretty comfortably in the RWC.

[offload]

I'm done on this now as I don't really understand what point you're trying to make, other than trying to start an argument and I can't be bothered.

[RiscaGame]

When you have Andy Nicol ( Scotland ) Keith Wood ( Ireland ) both saying that England will win.

Who am i to disagree with them.

I do agree with you previous matches won't make any difference at all. So why do we keep hearing that Wales are the more settled team in the 6ns? They ( Wales ) was the more settled team against Ireland yet they did not win the game. the game was a ( DRAW )
And  Wales are the most settled team?

We also lost our best (FLYHALF) early and you even (ACKNOWLEDGE) when it suits you that Wales are slow starters. So a draw away is a fairly good result.

[majesticimperialman]

When you have Andy Nicol ( Scotland ) Keith Wood ( Ireland ) both saying that England will win.

Who am i to disagree with them.

I do agree with you previous matches won't make any difference at all. So why do we keep hearing that Wales are the more settled team in the 6ns? They ( Wales ) was the more settled team against Ireland yet they did not win the game. the game was a ( DRAW )
And  Wales are the most settled team?

We also lost our best (FLYHALF) early and you even (ACKNOWLEDGE) when it suits you that Wales are slow starters. So a draw away is a fairly good result.

I also said what looks good on paper/screen does all ways play out on the field.

I wan't England to win. Just like you wan't Wales to win.

Who will win? it is a matter of wait and see. and good luck too both teams.

[Rugby Fan]

...If you look at both teams with unbiased eyes you would say that England should win this game no problem....

Not at all. Regardless of what you might think of the individuals, a lot of pundits are going for Wales. I see McGeechan and Guscott have done so today.

England may have won three games, but more Welsh players would make a combined 6N team today. England had the best of large parts of the game against Wales at the World Cup but came out losers. That could happen again.

"No problem" seems like a very optimistic reading of our chances, given that England have a desperately poor record when it comes to crunch matches we have to win. We have a lot of the right bits in place to seal a victory but that's been true in previous years, and we've fallen short.

[majesticimperialman]

I see McGeechan and Guscott have done so today.

Guscott must of changed his mind from last night then. Last night he said England would win.

[RiscaGame]

I see McGeechan and Guscott have done so today.

Guscott must of changed his mind from last night then. Last night he said England would win.

Where? Unless he thinks France will beat England then, as he still thinks that Wales will win the tournament (which we won't if we lose next week).

[LondonTiger]

At the start of the tournament I predicted England would win 4 from 5 games and finish second.

Right now I am still, sadly, confident in that assertion.

[majesticimperialman]

I see McGeechan and Guscott have done so today.

Guscott must of changed his mind from last night then. Last night he said England would win.

Where? Unless he thinks France will beat England then, as he still thinks that Wales will win the tournament (which we won't if we lose next week).

On bbc 2 last night John inverdale ask Andy Nicol, Keith Wood, and Jermy Guscott who will win England or Wales and all 3 said England.

[No 7&1/2]

When Nichol is the best pundit on the panel you're in trouble.

[RiscaGame]

Guscott needs to have a good think before he speaks then. As I said, we can't win the tournament if we lose next week.

[Guest]

England for me, unfortunately.

[Breadvan]

A looooong 2 weeks alright Bedford. Loads of questions and debate to be had tho. Will EJ keep his self imposed media ban? What will Gats say and will he stick to the kick the ball away tactics from fri? Will Mike 'Putin,Assad,badguy' Brown be cited? Good grief...

[kingjohn7]

I hope Charteris is bk, Eng lineout is looking quite strong. Both number 8s look very good-looking forward to that. I thought England took longer than expected to get round the Irish defence and am worried that they might start firing on more cylinders eventually. Our defence is very strong but dont think we can contain Eng the whole game. I think England will have more impact off the bench- although we will have Tips. As usual im looking forward to a big game. Good luck English lads, you're gonna need it!

[doctor_grey]

Anyone taking bets on how long it will be untill this thread gets locked?  

I will bet you a pint we get through today unscathed.

[GavCanDance]

Guscott is backing Wales for the championship:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35680254

Who will win the Six Nations? - Steve Humphreys

"I still think Wales will do it."

[mikey_dragon]

How have Wales been a settled team? We had a few players coming back in from long-term injury and a bit of a new look front row (it's improved our set piece thankfully). So unless you don't watch rugby (madge) then it takes a high degree of bonehead thinking to call Wales a settled team.

[GavCanDance]

Stats for both teams:



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[beshocked]

Personally I think England have more room for improvement than Wales.

Wales are a good side but I haven't seen them play at a higher level than a 4th or 5th ranked side in the world in the last few years. With England I feel it's still a work in progress but if England can cut their penalty count to a normal level then Wales will find it very difficult.

England are similar to the one in the RWC but also some noticeable differences. Hooker and 2nd row are an upgrade on what we had in the RWC. The bench should be an improvement too.

Take out the jingoism and you'll find that the England-Wales games in the last few years (since Lancaster) have been closely fought contests bar the 2013 one.

It's going to be a tough contest. I would say England are marginal favourites, going from what I've seen so far in the 6 nations but doesn't make it easy.

Contrary to what some Welsh WUMS think I do have some healthy respect for Wales.

I like players such as Warburton, Roberts and Faletau. Think all 3 are excellent players and good role models.

I believe you beat us fair and square in the RWC, I admired the gutsy effort your players put in despite the injuries, well done but doesn't mean I think you'll win this time.

[englandglory4ever]

People called the Wales v France game boring, including me. But I would bet Wales were very pleased in the manner of their win. Their defence suffocated the French and their set piece very strong.these are the hallmarks of a very good side. Their attack was not so impressive but scoring against them will be as hard as it gets. using their excellent defence to give them kickable penalties is their main strategy. This will be a highly tactical game and could be nail biteingly tight.

[TightHEAD]

I think Wales are hugely talented.

[RubyGuby]

bedfordwelsh

I do not wan't to jinx England here. but being an England fan i wan't England to win.
Just like any Welsh fan wan't Wales to win.

If you look at both teams with unbiased eyes you would say that England shouold win this game no problem.


COME ON ENGLAND.

Fair play Maj - reading that has made my Monday morning - I love your unbiasedness

[offload]

Although a work in progress I believe England are a disciplined and smart team playing an attractive brand of rugby. They've played brilliantly this tournament, what a turnaround. Loving the new humility too. Can't wait for the 12th.

[TightHEAD]

As long as Wales play by the rules and the Refs/TMO don't allow Wales to stand in offside positions and pick up the knock on's from their own players and score tries then England stand a chance to scrape home by about 10 points.

[majesticimperialman]

bedfordwelsh

I do not wan't to jinx England here. but being an England fan i wan't England to win.
Just like any Welsh fan wan't Wales to win.

If you look at both teams with unbiased eyes you would say that England shouold win this game no problem.            


COME ON ENGLAND.

Fair play Maj - reading that has made my Monday morning - I love your unbiasedness

RubyGuby why don't you read the rest of what i said an do not pick the parts that make you laugh.

[mikey_dragon]

Stats for both teams:

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Not exactly favourable to England when you factor in the fact that they've played minnows Italy. They should start as slightl favourites due to home advantage though.

[RiscaGame]

bedfordwelsh

I do not wan't to jinx England here. but being an England fan i wan't England to win.
Just like any Welsh fan wan't Wales to win.

If you look at both teams with unbiased eyes you would say that England shouold win this game no problem.            


COME ON ENGLAND.

Fair play Maj - reading that has made my Monday morning - I love your unbiasedness

RubyGuby why don't you read the rest of what i said an do not pick the parts that make you laugh.

That doesn't really leave a lot.

[mikey_dragon]

Although a work in progress I believe England are a disciplined and smart team playing an attractive brand of rugby.  They've played brilliantly this tournament, what a turnaround.  Loving the new humility too.  Can't wait for the 12th.  

Good one

[GavCanDance]

Stats for both teams:

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[/url]

Not exactly favourable to England when you factor in the fact that they've played minnows Italy. They should start as slightl favourites due to home advantage though.

Agreed. Also let's not forget that 2 yellow cards (against a good team) usually costs the offending team around 7-10 points per card.

[beshocked]

gavcandance interesting stats.

I think the ones that stand out the most IMO

39 penalties conceded, 2 YCs compared to 28 penalties conceded, no YCs.

17 breaks, 9 tries compared to 11 breaks, 5 tries.

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/matchcentre/match_centre.php?section=playstatshome&fixid=204317#Ot4bvuQzg49HtxLi.97

Interesting looking at England vs Ireland match stats.

People who say Hartley had a good game should look at the stats...

I know you'll say that you're being harsh and stats don't tell you the whole story.

You're right they don't but they are important too.

Penalties conceded is interesting and of course there's the usual suspects....


Stats show Farrell wasn't particularly good.

Nowell and Daly did well in defence. Surprisingly Ford too.

[No 7&1/2]

You don't think Hartley played well?

[HammerofThunor]

Those stats show what I'm feeling, England haven't done great. Just to clarify (remembering that Wales have yet to play Italy)
England have given away more penalties, received more yellow cards, missed more tackles, lost more lineouts, lost more rucks, conceded more turnovers, made fewer passes, made fewer offloads, beaten fewer defenders.

Only points where England have been better, more distance per carry, more clean breaks, and lost fewer scrums. If we lose Billy...we're fecked.

I think Wales are going to win, and win reasonably comfortably. Not 33-0 (or whatever the score was) but not a close game come the end.

I just don't see any massive improvement in England. Possibly due to bedding in time, etc. rebuilding, yawn. I'd be happy to be pleasantly surprised.

[HammerofThunor]

Stats show Farrell wasn't particularly good.

He's a poor man's Biggar at the moment. All the similar qualities but worse.

Nowell and Daly did well in defence. Surprisingly Ford too.

Only surprising if you don't pay any attention and just think "Ford small...bad defender"

[No 7&1/2]

Do we reckon there'll be any changes for the Wales game? Launchbury presumably comes back into the reckoning of starting with Kruis. Itoje obviously will be hoping to keep onto the lock spot but could move to 6. Clifford pushing for 7, looked good in his glimpses so far. Farrell, Ford, Daly, Tuilagi will be forming the 10 and 12 by the looks of it but will he just stick with what he has?

I'm also assured by several peoples posts we'll be looking for a new full back. Goode or Watson?

[mikey_dragon]

Thunor, nice to see a humble Englishman who is in touch with reality. I hope you can rub off on the likes of Hoonercat, Hammersmith and englandglory .

[offload]

Those stats show what I'm feeling, England haven't done great.  Just to clarify (remembering that Wales have yet to play Italy)
England have given away more penalties, received more yellow cards, missed more tackles, lost more lineouts, lost more rucks, conceded more turnovers, made fewer passes, made fewer offloads, beaten fewer defenders.

Only points where England have been better, more distance per carry, more clean breaks, and lost fewer scrums. If we lose Billy...we're fecked.

I think Wales are going to win, and win reasonably comfortably. Not 33-0 (or whatever the score was) but not a close game come the end.

I just don't see any massive improvement in England. Possibly due to bedding in time, etc. rebuilding, yawn. I'd be happy to be pleasantly surprised.

I've seen this tactic before - you just don't want the favourites tag
By the way it was 33-3, easy to forget I know.

[beshocked]

no 7 & 1/2 No not really. 5.5/10. His set piece was solid but his defence was poor and he should have really powered over for the try after running on to the ball at pace. Gave away 2 penalties.

Of course that's just my opinion.

Hammerofthunor bear in mind Farrell is playing out of position. If Biggar played at 12 I would be interested to see how he did..... even in the RWC Farrell in my opinion was outplaying Biggar till he was moved into the centre....

I personally think Biggar and Farrell are pretty much on par these days.

[No 7&1/2]

Very easy to forget apparently offload.

[Guest]

Really Hammer? It's encouraging for me as a Welsh fan to read your comments, but I really don't feel we're favourites to win so winning 'reasonably comfortably' is an even greater leap! We've not got many wins over the years at HQ. I'm really not confident for this one. The France game showed that we're not doing much more than defending. England will be a step up again and I can't see us getting as many points, or being able to hold out England attacks in the same way (better ball carriers than France, etc.). Saying that, I don't think we've played well yet so there's an element of 'if' we can click then we might do well.

I think Wales might lose this, but beat Italy in the last week; England to win this one but perhaps lose to France (who I think are getting better) away from home in the final weekend. It could then be a straight shoot out between France and England for the title, depending on how France do next game. Would it go on head to head, or points difference if tied on championship points?

[No 7&1/2]

Fair enough beshocked, thought he took another step up in performance myself. Really solid, led well. Hopefully we thrash Wales to such an extent George gets a good half hour against a stronger front row, but unlikely!

[mikey_dragon]

Do we reckon there'll be any changes for the Wales game? Launchbury presumably comes back into the reckoning of starting with Kruis. Itoje obviously will be hoping to keep onto the lock spot but could move to 6. Clifford pushing for 7, looked good in his glimpses so far. Farrell, Ford, Daly, Tuilagi will be forming the 10 and 12 by the looks of it but will he just stick with what he has?

I'm also assured by several peoples posts we'll be looking for a new full back. Goode or Watson?

Launchbury is still overrated. Kruis and Itoje are high quality lock forwards, I would stick with them and have Tuilagi on the bench. Haskell for me drops out, he's still a penalty machine. A lot will also depend on Brown and Vunipola, so you need to hope they're still available.

[No 7&1/2]

Whatever mikey.

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