England v Wales - let it all out thread

[yappysnap]

First topic message reminder :

To hopefully stop the usual suspects from ruining more threads, could both nations wums just throw all of their toys out of the pram on this one?

Two weeks until the game and already it's like a full moon at the crazy house.

Thanks in advance

[LondonTiger]

I often think one of the reasons for clashes between England and Welsh fans is over how we see the Six Nations.

Actually, we both see it is the same way: it's a title we both value and both dearly want. However, England supporters don't always sound like they do value it, which understandably winds up Welsh supporters no end.

A lot of this is down to our experiences at the World Cup, and not simply in a "we've got one, you haven't" fashion. Woodward's England did finally win the Cup but we had a lot of painful years blowing Grand Slams and Six Nations titles on the way. I know there's a lot of talk about how those failures helped build the team's bloody-mindedness but I don't really buy it. Quite simply, we kept letting our NH rivals get to us.

As an England fan, this was excruciating but the pain was relieved because the team went on a tear against the SH sides at the same time. The heartbreak of losing in the Six Nations was offset by a winning streak we could only have dreamed of in the past...and today.

To win a World Cup, a NH team will likely have to beat at least two out of South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. Consequently, England supporters tend to look at how we are doing against them to assess whether we've got a sniff.

That may well come across to rival six nations fans as if England supporters take wins in the North for granted. For me, at least, that's certainly not the case. I'm almost resigned to some teams in the 6N giving us a wedgie every year.

The thing is, though, over a four year World Cup cycle, we also usually end up beating the 6N teams who beat us, so it's hard for me to feel like we should ever go into a tournament feeling we are outclassed against them.

A major exception to that statement is the pile of victories Ireland ran up over England from early 2004 to 2011. It's an appalling thing to say, but I was so obsessed with my own team's problems, that I didn't really notice Ireland were taking us to the cleaners on such a regular basis. Call it arrogance if you will, but I think I was more guilty of ignorance.

I'm ashamed to admit than it took me until the 2009 Lions tour to realize how superior a lot of the Irish and Welsh players were by comparison with the English.

In my defence, England had made it to a World Cup final in 2007 when both those sides didn't get out of the pools. It's harder to notice a team has your number when you are seemingly outperforming them in other areas.

Since Ireland stopped beating us so regularly, no Six Nations team has consistently had the upper hand over us, so it's not really surprising that England supporters don't have an inferiority complex with any opponent in that tournament.

Nor do we have a superiority complex. Another aspect of my ignorance was to hang on to the belief that a Grand Slam is a rare achievement in rugby. A cursory look at the record shows Grand Slams to be increasingly common but just not for England. We have a great recent win record in the competition and a horrible one when it comes to the damn title, let alone a sweep.

I want a Grand Slam but I want a World Cup more. For too long, I've probably accepted six nations failures as part of some larger plan to win another Cup. After all, it happened to Clive's team. I think what I missed along the way is that winning even a title, and certainly a Grand Slam, demands that you can hold your nerve at key moments.

Realistically, the last time England held their nerve was in back-to-back wins against Australia and France in the 2007 tournament. Even our 2011 6N title win ended sourly with a comprehensive loss to Ireland. Has there ever been a more doleful title winner?

If I was a Welsh fan, I wouldn't ask why English fans think they can beat Wales, because the answer is simple: we've done it in recent memory, home and away. The question I'd put instead is: Why do you think you can beat Wales when it counts? "When it counts" is a bit contingent, to say the least, but Lancaster lost three times to Wales. On two occasions, it cost him a Grand Slam, on the other, it sent us out of the World Cup. Ergo, we haven't recently won against Wales when it counts.

The match this weekend counts, because if England lose, Wales will likely take the title. England could win and still go on to  lose the title to France but we probably get nothing with a loss, and could risk falling to two 6N losses for the first time since 2010.

If all this sounds like England are sorry sacks by comparison with Wales, then it's not all one way traffic. England supporters have a valid point when we bring up the lack of success Wales has experienced against New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa.

I'm proud of rugby in the North. It frustrates me that England have failed to win more titles but I'm not ashamed, because I think we've lost to better teams. What infuriates me, is when these same teams can't transfer their winning mentality to beating teams in the south. If no-one in the North was beating them, then fair enough, but England have a good record against Australia. Not just the occasional surprise win, but a regular habit of beating them as much as they beat us.

To me, that means Australia, at least, have been there to be beaten by teams who have regularly humbled England. It's a sore on the backside of rugby in the north that Wales have not managed to do so. When the leading teams in the north can't dispatch southern competition on a better-than-average basis, then we all look bad.

The good thing is, Welsh supporters know this. There's a tangible impatience now about the Welsh game plan. It may yet be enough to claim another 6N title but it looks well short of beating even one southern hemisphere team in a World Cup, let alone two. If Welsh supporters start to feel 6N titles no longer feed the beast, then maybe we'll all start to be on the same page. Why not demand a side which can beat the best?

Wales has had fantastic players over the years, players who really make you feel excited about the game. We wonder about which England players might qualify as world class but names like Halfpenny, Roberts, Warburton, Faletau and North come instantly to mind when you think of Wales and we could easily add some other names too. There must be a strategy which can put these guys to work for more wins against the south than they've managed so far.

The Six Nations shouldn't be a second division. When Woodward beat the SH but couldn't win a 6N title, it started to make the south look like the second tier. Let's not kid ourselves, we never got to that point but the south didn't feel on top, and I'd happily settle for that now.

New page.

[RubyGuby]

We have a Billy Vinapola, the lad has a habit of beating the Welsh he loves tearing them up

Yes like last September he really teared us one before he went off with a limp.

*tore*

No, Blly teared us a new one

It might also help if the fella spells his name right  before commenting on the grammatical slurs - It's Vunipola by the way.

It might help if you actualy read the name of the person correcting the grammatical error before accusing them of being the op.  

It might help if you STFU Tigger

[Sgt_Pooly]

Nice......

[eirebilly]

These threads really do give me a good laugh at times, keep it up lads

[RubyGuby]

These threads really do give me a good laugh at times, keep it up lads

My pleasure Billy I do miss the real rugby discussions though with Gibson et al.

[eirebilly]

Yeah, gibbo is a huge miss to this site Guru. Wish he would come back as geen sport voor watjes

[RubyGuby]

He's too clever for this site now Billy, he'd be disappointed and probably has bigger fish to fry, rollies to smoke and whisky to drink.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Yes, rollies...

[eirebilly]

Yes, rollies...

What ever could you be implying here Lucky

[RubyGuby]

And lets not forget about the mayonnaise he's shoving on his chips out there

[Gwlad]

Going to be really interesting to see if the Burgess Factor is going to strike again…will Eddie go against everything he has built so far and do a Lancaster, he'll have to drop Farrell and start Manu to do a number on Roberts.

I bet he wants to.

[englandglory4ever]

I want to too. Love Manu. Looking forward to seeing Hughes too.

As an aside. That Marcus Watson is well rapid. Is he EQ?

[lostinwales]

I want to too. Love Manu. Looking forward to seeing Hughes too.

As an aside. That Marcus Watson is well rapid. Is he EQ?

Dunno about him but I hear his little brother might be

[majesticimperialman]

I want to too. Love Manu. Looking forward to seeing Hughes too.

As an aside. That Marcus Watson is well rapid. Is he EQ?

Dunno about him but I hear his little brother might be

Isn't Marcus Watson Antony Watson younger brother?

[George Carlin]

I've always felt, and I don't wish to be over-general about this, that all Welsh people smell of light salad dressing.

[carpet baboon]

I've always felt, and I don't wish to be over-general about this, that all Welsh people smell of light salad dressing.

Are you talking the Paul Newman salad dressing?

[George Carlin]

I've always felt, and I don't wish to be over-general about this, that all Welsh people smell of light salad dressing.

Are you talking the Paul Newman salad dressing?

Yes. But the nice one with honey and lemon in it.

[carpet baboon]

I've always felt, and I don't wish to be over-general about this, that all Welsh people smell of light salad dressing.

Are you talking the Paul Newman salad dressing?

Yes. But the nice one with honey and lemon in it.

I concur. Harrumph

[yappysnap]

And the English smell of arrogance and prawn mayo GC

[carpet baboon]

And the English smell of arrogance and prawn mayo GC

No more hinez BBQ beans

[George Carlin]

And the English smell of arrogance and prawn mayo GC

I am a Glasgow fan, so if you're wondering where the smell of Buckfast, heroin, despair and fried chocolate comes from...

[carpet baboon]

And the English smell of arrogance and prawn mayo GC

I am a Glasgow fan, so if you're wondering where the smell of Buckfast, heroin, despair and fried chocolate comes from...

Best post ever

[doctor_grey]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

[stub]

This thread has taken an unusual turn!

[lostinwales]

I want to too. Love Manu. Looking forward to seeing Hughes too.

As an aside. That Marcus Watson is well rapid. Is he EQ?

Dunno about him but I hear his little brother might be

Isn't Marcus Watson Antony Watson younger brother?

Marcus Watson is the older brother and has played a lot (for England) on the 7's circuit

[nathan]

Looks like lawes could be out, so who's the next lock to be included?

[Gwlad]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

[lostinwales]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

Tell them to change yours more often?

[George Carlin]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

Tell them to change yours more often?

[Gwlad]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

Tell them to change yours more often?

I'd prefer it if your wife did it, I'm sure she's an expert.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Doc's gay Gwlad, still want it changing.











Sorry Doc, I couldn't resist.

[RiscaGame]

And the English smell of arrogance and prawn mayo GC

I am a Glasgow fan, so if you're wondering where the smell of Buckfast, heroin, despair and fried chocolate comes from...

God, I love the Bucky and deep fried goodies mind.

[stub]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

Smells like......Victory.

[stub]

And the English smell of arrogance and prawn mayo GC

I am a Glasgow fan, so if you're wondering where the smell of Buckfast, heroin, despair and fried chocolate comes from...

God, I love the Bucky and deep fried goodies mind.

Tried a deep fried mars bar once - it was unexpectedly fishy

[lostinwales]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

Tell them to change yours more often?

I'd prefer it if your wife did it, I'm sure she's an expert.

Nah shes had enough of dealing with small children

[Gwlad]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

Tell them to change yours more often?

I'd prefer it if your wife did it, I'm sure she's an expert.

Nah shes had enough of dealing with small children

Im sure she's had plenty of practice, but you really shouldn't put yourself down.

[lostinwales]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

Tell them to change yours more often?

I'd prefer it if your wife did it, I'm sure she's an expert.

Nah shes had enough of dealing with small children

Im sure she's had plenty of practice, but you really shouldn't put yourself down.

Putting myself down? We have two great children but that level of childcare is happily long past. Try harder Mr. Smelly

[Gwlad]

I think England smell like Napalm in the morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

I think they smell like Nappies in the morning.

Tell them to change yours more often?

I'd prefer it if your wife did it, I'm sure she's an expert.

Nah shes had enough of dealing with small children

Im sure she's had plenty of practice, but you really shouldn't put yourself down.

Putting myself down? We have two great children but that level of childcare is happily long past. Try harder Mr. Smelly

Oops, do you need a change, I think I can smell your BS from here! As i said, sure she gets plenty of practice still.

[stub]

I suppose it's what the thread is for but this is very poor.

[majesticimperialman]

I suppose it's what the thread is for but this is very poor.

I guess this thread is what you could call a ( DUMP ) thread

[lostinwales]

I suppose it's what the thread is for but this is very poor.

I guess this thread is  what you could call a ( DUMP ) thread

It had its moments but now its just a bit sad. The latest comments from our friend in Vancouver reminds me of what Denis Healey said about Geoffry Howe

[Gwlad]

I suppose it's what the thread is for but this is very poor.

I guess this thread is  what you could call a ( DUMP ) thread

It had its moments but now its just a bit sad. The latest comments from our friend in Vancouver reminds me of what Denis Healey said about Geoffry Howe

Ah now i see why you left Wales, got a bit over enthusiastic with the wildlife did you

[stub]

I suppose it's what the thread is for but this is very poor.

I guess this thread is  what you could call a ( DUMP ) thread

It had its moments but now its just a bit sad. The latest comments from our friend in Vancouver reminds me of what Denis Healey said about Geoffry Howe

Yes, definitely tailing off in terms of anything of worth Imo. I think it's just about getting in the last word.

Enjoyed the Apocalyspe Now interlude though!

[DirtyRucker7]

Biggar will kick it away a lot! to the most dangerous back line in world rugby.Advantage England.

Farrell will control the field position from 12 and Joseph will tear the Welsh a new one. Advantage England.

Care and Ford will play with such pace and tempo the Aussies will be having sleepless nights already thinking about the summer tour. Advantage England.

Billy oh Billy is quite frankly the IRB player of the year. Advantage England.

Robshaw and Haskell ripping up trees showing pocock how it is done. Advantage England.

Itoje and Kruis these boys give the Boks nightmares,they will absolutely beast the over rated Alun and Beanpole Luke.Advantage England

Cole, Marler going to be having toast for dinner on Saturday because thats what they will be cooking from the Welsh scrum Boom. Advantage England.

Hartely the rock our national treasure just like Martin Johnson he will be the next Lions captain. Advantage England.

Infact the more i analysis this the bigger the score i see us putting on the welsh.

Just like Sir Clive said to me yesterday "it is just wales, beating them is our bread and butter"

[Gwlad]

Biggar will kick it away a lot! to the most dangerous back line in world rugby.Advantage England.

Farrell will control the field position from 12 and Joseph will tear the Welsh a new one. Advantage England.

Care and Ford will play with such pace and tempo the Aussies will be having sleepless nights already thinking about the summer tour. Advantage England.

Billy oh Billy is quite frankly the IRB player of the year. Advantage England.

Robshaw and Haskell ripping up trees showing pocock how it is done. Advantage England.

Itoje and Kruis these boys give the Boks nightmares,they will absolutely beast the over rated Alun and Beanpole Luke.Advantage England

Cole, Marler going to be having toast for dinner on Saturday because thats what they will be cooking from the Welsh scrum Boom. Advantage England.

Hartely the rock our national treasure just like Martin Johnson he will be the next Lions captain. Advantage England.

Infact the more i analysis this the bigger the score i see us putting on the welsh.

Just like Sir Clive said to me yesterday "it is just wales, beating them is our bread and butter"

I'd stop doing 'analysis' and start getting some done of yourself.

[lostinwales]

I suppose it's what the thread is for but this is very poor.

I guess this thread is  what you could call a ( DUMP ) thread

It had its moments but now its just a bit sad. The latest comments from our friend in Vancouver reminds me of what Denis Healey said about Geoffry Howe

Ah now i see why you left Wales, got a bit over enthusiastic with the wildlife did you

I left Wales because I hated my job there and the politics around it, and hated living there. Why did you leave?

[doctor_grey]

Doc's gay Gwlad, still want it changing.











Sorry Doc, I couldn't resist.

That was funny - I was laughing...........until I realised it was about me.

[Gwlad]

I suppose it's what the thread is for but this is very poor.

I guess this thread is  what you could call a ( DUMP ) thread

It had its moments but now its just a bit sad. The latest comments from our friend in Vancouver reminds me of what Denis Healey said about Geoffry Howe

Ah now i see why you left Wales, got a bit over enthusiastic with the wildlife did you

I left Wales because I hated my job there and the politics around it, and hated living there. Why did you leave?

Because of you.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

My nine-year-old niece comes up with better stuff than that, Gwlad.

[Jimpy]

Looks like lawes could be out, so who's the next lock to be included?

Slater.

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