World T20 Final England vs West Indies

First topic message reminder :

I thought this now warranted a separate thread. We have a final that not many would have predicted either team would make, and a combination of finalists that probably no-one predicted!

Hoping for a good game but ultimately an England win

Ludicrous to suggest Morgan should be replaced as captain after the best twelve months post World Cup England have had in donkeys years under his leadership

Yes his form wasn't great but he will come again - he was incredible during the English summer lest we forget

I kinda think Stokes needs to work out his batting in ODI/T20 stuff. For a guy of his talent his average in the formats is quite frankly abysmal, but he adds great balance to the side and his bowling has been on the whole good.

All in all I would just continue to let this group grow further. We have guys in reserve ready to come in if needed or if their form dictates they can get into the side too.

Morgan isn't a good captain, results have flattered him, but he makes so many mistakes, he's not terrible, and I don't think root should be captain, so probably not logical for him to be sacked unless Butler can captain.

England missed woods in my opinion.

This is a good limited over side now, would be great if England could produce a Amir or mustafizur... But maybe that's not likely.

But problem is we don't have a bowler below that level which is poor, even a bumrah would get into this team in all honesty.

I don't get why we're not producing fast bowlers, every country is. But surprisingly Englands got one of the better spin attacks though, and stokes does add ballance, but root should bowl more

To be fair on Stokes hes generally built his reputation ( in all formats) ona pretty average avergae but backing that up by being a genuine all rounder and winning matches single handedly with the bat or ball once every now and then.

Guys who can do that are pretty handy, even if they end up being passengers a lot of the time (Braithwaite? Russell? )

Ideally all players would be Joe Root, then all we would have to worry about was finding a fit strike bowler.


In terms of the debate I dont think its his role as captain thats in question, its his actual place in the side.
Whoever made the decision to bowl Root at the start has some level of genious in hindsight, even if you then question what happened to Ali.

I doubt very much anyone is calling for wholesale changes to the side.
It does make you wonder what they mightve done with fully a functional Finn , Broad and KP....but the selection ( 3rd spinner aside) isnt really facing any valid criticism.
If Morgan werent captain though or if theyd fallen short against SA I think the calls for his beheading would be deafening.

Gooseberry wrote:Its interesting to hear stiuff coming from Sammy following up on Samuels rather "emotional" press conference making similar points - they were genuinely aggreived at some of the things that had been said about them as people, as well as the shenanigans with their own board and getting their payments (hey we arent mercenaries!). Stokes rankled them in the game, Warne befor it and Nicolas ast the start of the tournament.
Playing angry can go wrong, but for an agressive style and if its used to pull a team together and extract maximum effort this is what can happen. People can do things they dont normally do.

Quite right...the sense of the whole world's against us, worked for them, a la Alex Ferguson.

And it continues, with some folks still pointing fingers at Samuels, while ignoring the role of Stokes's sledging in the whole storm-in-a-teacup. But I don't mind...so long as the journalists keep picking on Samuels, while ignoring Stokes, the more Marlon will stay angry, and that's good for us!

VTR wrote:Chris Jordan - improved into a consistent and valuable performer, one of the first names on the T20 teamsheet now

Jordan's 19th over was outstanding...Stokes should've paid attention to how Jordan bowled, and tried to follow his example. When Samuels gave room to leg, Jordan shot the ball down the off stump. The result...a dot ball. Carlos made room to leg for all four deliveries, and Stokes foolishly served it up in his hitting zone. No use of the slower ball, nothing. Did he not watch Russell bowl in the England innings? Newsflash...Stokes is not Malinga. He's medium fast at best. Four attempted yorkers in a row was just what Brathwaite wanted....

shivfan wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Its interesting to hear stiuff coming from Sammy following up on Samuels rather "emotional" press conference making similar points - they were genuinely aggreived at some of the things that had been said about them as people, as well as the shenanigans with their own board and getting their payments (hey we arent mercenaries!). Stokes rankled them in the game, Warne befor it and Nicolas ast the start of the tournament.
Playing angry can go wrong, but for an agressive style and if its used to pull a team together and extract maximum effort this is what can happen. People can do things they dont normally do.

Quite right...the sense of the whole world's against us, worked for them, a la Alex Ferguson.

And it continues, with some folks still pointing fingers at Samuels, while ignoring the role of Stokes's sledging in the whole storm-in-a-teacup. But I don't mind...so long as the journalists keep picking on Samuels, while ignoring Stokes, the more Marlon will stay angry, and that's good for us!

If only England were so easily offended (or less used to constant abuse)

http://uk.reuters.com/article/cricket-world-england-idUKL3N16L03H

shivfan wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Its interesting to hear stiuff coming from Sammy following up on Samuels rather "emotional" press conference making similar points - they were genuinely aggreived at some of the things that had been said about them as people, as well as the shenanigans with their own board and getting their payments (hey we arent mercenaries!). Stokes rankled them in the game, Warne befor it and Nicolas ast the start of the tournament.
Playing angry can go wrong, but for an agressive style and if its used to pull a team together and extract maximum effort this is what can happen. People can do things they dont normally do.

Quite right...the sense of the whole world's against us, worked for them, a la Alex Ferguson.

And it continues, with some folks still pointing fingers at Samuels, while ignoring the role of Stokes's sledging in the whole storm-in-a-teacup. But I don't mind...so long as the journalists keep picking on Samuels, while ignoring Stokes, the more Marlon will stay angry, and that's good for us!

Not to be funny or anything but he was the third fastest bowler in the tournament I believe

As far as the England team is concerned:

Morgan - how long do you persist, especially when he made a crucial captaincy error in giving Stokes the last over (Jordan should have had 18 & 20)
Root - has surely cemented his place in the shortest format, but such a brainless shot to be dismissed cast doubts on his clarity of thought at crucial moments. This in turn shoudl cast doubts over his Skipper-in-waiting position. The team shoudl also have imposed a fine on him for that dismissal.
Roy - great slogger, but does he have the technique to thrive against quality bowling or on non-flat tracks.
Bowling - not enough guys bowling wicket taking balls. Which leads to....
Rashid - having turned the ball square with the leg break why not try some more, at least at some point? He is not a Badree (medium pace googly bowler) so should have bowled to his strengths.

Steady on , Tiger...

Root fined for a poor shot ? That has to be a joke. All the top players try these highly risky shots in t20 - sometimes they come off ; sometimes they don't. If it goes for 4 we all applaud his audacity : can't turn round and hammer him when one doesn't come off! The man has been immense for England throughout the competition and (though I am in no hurry to burden him with the captaincy) is clearly a player with a very sound knowledge of his game and match situations ; so is going to be a leader in name as well as action sooner or later.

Morgan had a horror run with the bat. He - like anyone - will have to produce runs if he is to keep his place in the team ; but if he does so I see no reason to change skippers just yet. He has generally done a decent job , in most critic's opinions.
Personally I have no problem with Stokes bowling the last over - as he had been doing (successfully) in previous games. This time , it didn't work. He got his trademark full deliveries a little bit wrong - and Brathwaite had a few minutes in which he could do anything... I wonder how any other bowler would have fared ? Jordan bowled an excellent 19th : and in many ways the penultimate over might be seen as more important than the last .Suppose Stokes had bowled an expensive 19th and left Jordan to defend , say , nine runs ? Would that be wrong too ?
Too much after the game wisdom here.

As for Roy - I shall leave guildford to defend him

Alfie - I struggled with Tiger's last post above. Suspected he might have been trying to have a laugh or had overindulged on the Black Sheep.

A team fine - maybe having to attend a meeting in his underwear, would be appropriate for such a shot at that time. Having just lost Buttler and Ali we did not need him to take such a risk right then.

Thought Stokes had been bowling the penultimate overs - if not, then apologies for the error.
Roy is a player with a good eye, but very poor technique. He will do just fine for us in limited overs cricket.
Rashid was a real disappointment, but in general our bowling was weak.

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - I struggled with Tiger's last post above. Suspected he might have been trying to have a laugh or had overindulged on the Black Sheep.

Been tee-total ever since I stopped playing rugby - due to a drunk driver.

Tiger - genuine apologies as what was intended as a light hearted and friendly comment appears inappropriate to your own circumstances. Guildford.

guildfordbat wrote:Tiger - genuine apologies as what was intended as a light hearted and friendly comment appears inappropriate to your own circumstances. Guildford.

Dinnae panic laddie, no offence was taken. Just pointing out my ramblings are merely that of an idiot (rather than a drunken idiot)

Should have milked it a bit tiger See if you could shame Guildford out of his usual graceful manner.

Oh wow, addressed as ''Sir'' by Vikram Solanki last week and now called ''graceful'' by Shahenshah - where will it end?!