England's Squad for Wales Game on 29th May

First topic message reminder :

Suggestions today that Jones will name an initial training squad tomorrow for this fixture. While losing AP semi-finalists have not been completely ruled out from the fixture, it while be interesting to see who is named.

meow

Would anyone be tempted to try out Morgan? See if being selected might be a bit of a carrot to push him on? Or would you just leave him alone and focus on Clifford or Harrison at 8.

Shame Beaumont is injured still.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

BamBam wrote:I think you underestimate how much Gatland would enjoy tanking England at Twickenham

We do it often not much of a surprise now..... remember the World Cup ??  

We need our lads for proper matches in June.

Three times since 1988? Your definition of 'often' must be different to mine.

I hadn't realised Jamie George was back playing, how's his form looking?

From being a bit stuck at hooker, we've got our top two options back, albeit short of game time

Bambam well he made a big difference at scrum time for Sarries vs Racing Metro, he helps anchor that Sarries scrum. Makes it much stronger. People believe Mako is a poor scrummager but with George next to him he's generally done well. Wasn't his best at lineout time but he's still a bit rusty I expect from being out for a while!

Do English posters here think Mike Brown might not be the answer at full back? He was great a few seasons ago, in the Six Nations at least, but for me he's looked quite ordinary recently. If he doesn't start, who does?

From the sat game he looked good when he came on....definitely shored up a pack that was starting to struggle against the big French units. I am sure he will tour, but wont be available for this game.

Surely Hartley will start as needs gametime and would be happy with Taylor on the bench to see what he's got.

GF - I am undecided about morgan! If he was starting for Glouces then I would have seen a bit more of him. If its a fitness thing then he just needs to knuckle down and the form will come back, but he is one of those weird ones where he has looked better in an England shirt than club....but that makes it difficult justification for selection.
Harrison, from what I have seen deserves a shot. Billy V, is the incumbent, Clifford has dropped a bit of form but covers the whole back row, and Hughes qualifies soon.
You would think that its now or never for Morgan.

Ah ok, cheers beshocked, I reckon we should be looking to give him a start this summer

LP, I'd give Watson a go at FB .. may not have the kicking game but a back 3 of Watson, Nowell and May/Wade/Yarde has some serious attacking threat

Luckless - Brown is talked a lot about on the summer tour thread.
The general consensus I believe is that he is looking pretty tired and could perhaps do with a rest.
Watson is generally seen as the long term successor to the 15 shirt and will possibly be trialled in the Wales game.
A.Goode has been touted by a few but there are other ? over his game, despite some solid recent displays.
Nowell has covered 15 for club but isn't a specialist.

J.May if and when he comes back into fitness may contest the 15 shirt.
Pennel was a contender too but seems to have dropped down the pecking order.

Yarde shouldn't be anywhere near the England squad at the moment.

Lewington is a far better option.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Do English posters here think Mike Brown might not be the answer at full back? He was great a few seasons ago, in the Six Nations at least, but for me he's looked quite ordinary recently. If he doesn't start, who does?

He's not on great form but he has played a lot of rugby over the last couple of seasons. Regardless of that we do seriously need to think about a long term replacement. There are arguments for Alex Goode as the form English FB but that doesn't sit well with me and many others for reasons that have often come up (too slow too weak). I think the 'fan favourite' at the moment would be shifting Watson in from the wing.

Or in other words what Prop say...

Theres always Simon " The rapier" Hammersley

propdavid_london wrote:Luckless - Brown is talked a lot about on the summer tour thread.

So I see!

Will the losers of the play-offs be available for this? They would have around 8 days in between that and this game right?

mikey_dragon wrote:Will the losers of the play-offs be available for this? They would have around 8 days in between that and this game right?

We think they will be but it looks like we'll find out Sunday.

I don't see the point in rushing players for this game Mike. I imagine Wales will be taking the same approach.

Use it to maybe give some match practice - like Hartley and maybe have a look at fringe players like young Lewington on the wing...Watson moved to FB etc.

I'd also suspect that anyone coming into the squad after the semi final games would have to be existing squad members rather than fringe players.

lostinwales wrote:I'd also suspect that anyone coming into the squad after the semi final games would have to be existing squad members rather than fringe players.

I think EJ will make a squad without the top 4 teams, and only bring in players from the losing semi-finalists that are needed to shore up the team - or if they need game time.

So (apologies to Leicester fans) we could see Tuilagi come in to partner JJ.

Alex_Germany wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I'd also suspect that anyone coming into the squad after the semi final games would have to be existing squad members rather than fringe players.

I think EJ will make a squad without the top 4 teams, and only bring in players from the losing semi-finalists that are needed to shore up the team - or if they need game time.

So (apologies to Leicester fans) we could see Tuilagi come in to partner JJ.

Alex - If any Tigers were parachuted in I reckon it'd be second rows. Any of Slater, Kitchener and even 'Dim' Barrow let alone Dom would add a lot more than Attwood or Ewels will currently.

Manu would likely depend on how Eddie views his fitness. He's still working his way back to a full 80 mins at top intensity. The knee knock although minor won't have helped with that. If Eddie thinks he needs the minutes before Oz then he could bring him in.

I could be accused of wanting to protect Tigers players by saying I wouldn't play Manu but I think this fixture is such a moronic addition to an already overcrowded season that I don't think any of them should be risked!

Well if Slater, Kitchener or Barrow are being considered why not Sean Robinson. Had a class season for us and is the 2nd in the lineout stats in the prem.

We have no idea if any players in the top 4 teams are being considered, but we do know that any player from the other 8 clubs, whether it is Pennell or Robinson or anyone else, not in the Brighton Jolly group are probably not being considered.

Very true LT

Guessing a 60% chance that Wasps lose and 80% chance that Leicester lose, then I think that Daly, Wade, Tuilagi and Launchbury would really strengthen the team. (Haskell is going to need a break - at his age:) )

GeordieFalcon wrote:I don't see the point in rushing players for this game Mike. I imagine Wales will be taking the same approach.

Use it to maybe give some match practice - like Hartley and maybe have a look at fringe players like young Lewington on the wing...Watson moved to FB etc.

You'll probably see some familiar faces like Lee, Francis, AWJ, Warburton and Scott Williams - they all need game time. We already know that the France based players are not released for this, so you can discount them.

Does the game fall in the window? Didn't think it did?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Does the game fall in the window? Didn't think it did?

Nope, so Wales will probably have to select from only home based players.

Or Exeter are getting a fine.

Probably, but they might be able to still select North? Backline will likely be Webb, Biggar, James, Williams, Morgan, North, L.Williams. Both of our centre's are short on game time, so that's a slight concern for me. The good news is no Priestland in the match-day squad.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Or Exeter are getting a fine.

Exeter likely to be in AP Final?

Stand a good chance, but just going through mikeys picks and Francis was there.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

BamBam wrote:I think you underestimate how much Gatland would enjoy tanking England at Twickenham

We do it often not much of a surprise now..... remember the World Cup ??  

We need our lads for proper matches in June.

To suffer another "plucky" series defeat to NZ

Hahaha coming from England that is so sad pal. 53,000,000 vs 3,063,000. You lead us by one test match. I must admit I am embarrassed that we are one behind.

I'd imagine the majority of posters are embarrassed by you too..

mikey_dragon wrote:Probably, but they might be able to still select North? Backline will likely be Webb, Biggar, James, Williams, Morgan, North, L.Williams. Both of our centre's are short on game time, so that's a slight concern for me. The good news is no Priestland in the match-day squad.

I hope Amos gets nod over James Mikey but then again who knows.

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Does the game fall in the window? Didn't think it did?

Nope, so Wales will probably have to select from only home based players.

Clermont have already said Davies won't be released and if the the other clubs follow suit we could also be without Francis, B Davies, L Charteris, Moriarty, Priestland, M Morgan and Roberts.

So if he intends to put out his strongest available side we could be looking at:-

Evans Baldwin Lee
AWJ Ball
Lydiate Faletau Warburton

Webb Biggar

North Sc Williams T Morgan Amos/James

Li Williams

Jenkins, Owens, Rh Jones, Turnbull, King, Davies, Anscombe, James/Amos

Still decent but this game really shouldn't be a full test given the amount of players not available.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Still decent but this game really shouldn't be a full test given the amount of players  not available.

I agree and my fear is that if we lost, even with that side against what would be a much less experienced English side it could be very damaging.

Wouldn't worry about it. It'll be a bit of a scratch side for English with the guys on the outskirts, can't see it being any more than a glorified Baa Baas match.

Don't really think either team will take much from it, regardless of who wins. Great opportunity to test some fringe players, but it's hardly going to be a re-match of the two first string teams.

Thats my point though, I think Englands side will be far more of a scrtach side than ours so if we win what can be taken from it?

However if we lose than could be quite damaging.

Wales need to shake off the rustiness and get an away win. If we lose then it's 60 points shipped per test in NZ - so in that regard we can take something from this game.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

BamBam wrote:I think you underestimate how much Gatland would enjoy tanking England at Twickenham

We do it often not much of a surprise now..... remember the World Cup ??  

We need our lads for proper matches in June.

To suffer another "plucky" series defeat to NZ

Hahaha coming from England that is so sad pal.  53,000,000 vs 3,063,000.  You lead us by one test match. I must admit I am embarrassed that we are one behind.

You need to learn to read aswell pal. I was referring to your NZ tour when all we'll hear is abiut the 'plucky' Welsh losing gallantly.....

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

BamBam wrote:I think you underestimate how much Gatland would enjoy tanking England at Twickenham

We do it often not much of a surprise now..... remember the World Cup ??  

We need our lads for proper matches in June.

To suffer another "plucky" series defeat to NZ

Hahaha coming from England that is so sad pal.  53,000,000 vs 3,063,000.  You lead us by one test match. I must admit I am embarrassed that we are one behind.

You need to learn to read as well pal.  I was referring to your NZ tour when all we'll hear is abiut the 'plucky' Welsh losing gallantly.....

You need to understand what it is you are writing before you post it. Plucky enough to kick you out of YOUR world cup

I like to think of it as if you're not first you're nowhere. But well done for beating England, it's like you've won your own world cup!

rainbow warrior England have moved on, Wales haven't.

Still believe Gatland has got to go, beating England in a RWC has given him a free pass but it shouldn't.

Wales need to aspire for more. England have changed their coaching set up and we've already seen an improvement in results.

This game on the 29th May is not important for either England or Wales, it's just an opportunity to give some players some match practice before the tough tours.

bluestonevedder wrote:Don't really think either team will take much from it, regardless of who wins.

Ranking points will be at stake, which I think is daft.

beshocked wrote:rainbow warrior England have moved on, Wales haven't.

Still believe Gatland has got to go, beating England in a RWC has given him a free pass but it shouldn't.

Wales need to aspire for more. England have changed their coaching set up and we've already seen an improvement in results.

This game on the 29th May is not important for either England or Wales, it's just an opportunity to give some players some match practice before the tough tours.

Think their up coming tour will show more if they have moved on or not really. After all Gatland won a GS in his first year in charge so let's see how England develop from now on.

True bedford, with some of players coming through and the average ago of the team England should push on. There'll be ups and downs still but in the next 18 months or so we should start to see some consistent performances against the top teams rather than the 1 step forward 1 step back which inexperience sometimes brings.

Rugby Fan wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Don't really think either team will take much from it, regardless of who wins.

Ranking points will be at stake, which I think is daft.

I had no idea there were ranking points up for grabs! Strikes me as being really stupid.

Still, that gives the game real value now rather than playing for no reason whatsoever. Fingers crossed for a good team.

bedfordwelsh getting a GS is moving on for England. Even Lancaster managed to beat Australia albeit not in the RWC.

Beating Australia is not an alien concept for England. Beating SA on the other hand has become an alien concept in the last few years.

If Japan,Wales,Ireland, almost every man and their dog can beat SA, England should be able too.

beshocked wrote:bedfordwelsh getting a GS is moving on for England. Even Lancaster managed to beat Australia albeit not in the RWC.

Beating Australia is not an alien concept for England. Beating SA on the other hand has become an alien concept in the last few years.

If Japan,Wales,Ireland, almost every man and their dog can beat SA, England should be able too.

Wales already had the GS, so we didn't need to move on.