England's Squad for Wales Game on 29th May

First topic message reminder :

Suggestions today that Jones will name an initial training squad tomorrow for this fixture. While losing AP semi-finalists have not been completely ruled out from the fixture, it while be interesting to see who is named.

bluestonevedder wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Don't really think either team will take much from it, regardless of who wins.

Ranking points will be at stake, which I think is daft.

I had no idea there were ranking points up for grabs! Strikes me as being really stupid.

Still, that gives the game real value now rather than playing for no reason whatsoever. Fingers crossed for a good team.

If you lose ranking points then you have the summer tour and AI series to get some back. Do the RWC seedings still take place years in advance?

mikey_dragon wrote:

beshocked wrote:bedfordwelsh getting a GS is moving on for England. Even Lancaster managed to beat Australia albeit not in the RWC.

Beating Australia is not an alien concept for England. Beating SA on the other hand has become an alien concept in the last few years.

If Japan,Wales,Ireland, almost every man and their dog can beat SA, England should be able too.

Wales already had the GS, so we didn't need to move on.

Just to clarify what beshocked was talking about

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

beshocked wrote:bedfordwelsh getting a GS is moving on for England. Even Lancaster managed to beat Australia albeit not in the RWC.

Beating Australia is not an alien concept for England. Beating SA on the other hand has become an alien concept in the last few years.

If Japan,Wales,Ireland, almost every man and their dog can beat SA, England should be able too.

Wales already had the GS, so we didn't need to move on.

Just to clarify what beshocked was talking about

He said Wales hadn't moved on. Let's face it the guy isn't happy unless he is bigging up England whilst simultaneously belittling Wales .

Thanks bambam, that's what I mean, a first GS since 2003 is a big deal for England because it's been a long time.

mikey dragon that's unfair. I am just saying what I believe.

England have a lot of work to do still, so do Wales.

I just feel more confident now E.Jones and his coaches are in charge. I don't believe Gatland is progressing Wales anymore.

Wales still have good players and are a good team but where's the progress?

I would like to see Wales improve but I think that will only happen if you get rid of him and his backroom staff bar Edwards. maybe the fitness coach could stay too.

Wales do have a great chance in the next couple fo years to be vying with England and leaving Ireland a step or 2 behind. For me it's these 2 teams who have the players to go on and challenge at the top of the game. There does come a certain pressure for Jones and Gatland with that.

And yes perhaps Gatland does need to freshen up his coaching staff to bring some fresh ideas.

I'm not convinced, I still think there's too many average players at the Welsh regions. The years in which the regions have played as badly as they have done this year has had a knock-on effect on the international team. The work that Gatland does with Wales and what's available to him is quite remarkable. Ireland don't have this problem and will be up there, they could even overtake both Wales and England. The only way for team Wales to improve is to improve from the bottom-up. The academies are good yet the progress stagnates when it comes to the regions.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I like to think of it as if you're not first you're nowhere. But well done for beating England, it's like you've won your own world cup!

Silly little boy

No 7&1/2 wrote:And yes perhaps Gatland does need to freshen up his coaching staff to bring some fresh ideas.

Most Wales fans are unsure as to why Howley and McBryde got the job in the first place. We're lucky that we now have some promising coaches in Wales (Jason Strange, Danny Wilson) and then there's old heads still knocking about like Dai Young. England and Ireland don't have a shortage of quality coaches IMO.

Sorry, that's rainbow. You beat England and that's all that matters to you. Hopefully most Welsh fans believe that they're actually better than that now.

mikey dragon but Wales still have very good players currently in the team.

It's not as if many of them are that old either.

One of your oldest is AWJ and he should still have at least be there for the next RWC.

Talking of England v SA, we're playing them first up in the AIs this year, hopefully we'll put in some great performances in Oz, and be ready to go from the off in that game

No 7&1/2 wrote:And yes perhaps Gatland does need to freshen up his coaching staff to bring some fresh ideas.

Howley and McBryde needs to go, then again they needed to go blydi years ago.

mikey_dragon wrote:

beshocked wrote:bedfordwelsh getting a GS is moving on for England. Even Lancaster managed to beat Australia albeit not in the RWC.

Beating Australia is not an alien concept for England. Beating SA on the other hand has become an alien concept in the last few years.

If Japan,Wales,Ireland, almost every man and their dog can beat SA, England should be able too.

Wales already had the GS, so we didn't need to move on.

In what sense did Wales already have a Grand Slam prior to the last Six Nations? The last time they won a grand slam was back in 2012. On that basis any team but Italy could claim to have a slam.

Exiledinborders wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

beshocked wrote:bedfordwelsh getting a GS is moving on for England. Even Lancaster managed to beat Australia albeit not in the RWC.

Beating Australia is not an alien concept for England. Beating SA on the other hand has become an alien concept in the last few years.

If Japan,Wales,Ireland, almost every man and their dog can beat SA, England should be able too.

Wales already had the GS, so we didn't need to move on.

In what sense did Wales already have a Grand Slam prior to the last Six Nations? The last time they won a grand slam was back in 2012. On that basis any team but Italy could claim to have a slam.

You're clearly not reading the convo. Beshocked said Wales needed to move on along with England by winning grand slams. I merely pointed out that we'd been there and done it. FYI nobody except Wales and England have won grand slams since 2012 .

It kind of supports beshockeds point that mikey.

We've won a tournament and been in the top 3 challenging for the title ever since that year. Beating England isn't the be-all-end-all like a lot of you like to think, in fact it's pretty sad.

mikey_dragon wrote:We've won a tournament and been in the top 3 challenging for the title ever since that year. Beating England isn't the be-all-end-all like a lot of you like to think, in fact it's pretty sad.

I also think its pretty sad when England loses

lostinwales wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:We've won a tournament and been in the top 3 challenging for the title ever since that year. Beating England isn't the be-all-end-all like a lot of you like to think, in fact it's pretty sad.

I also think its pretty sad when England loses

Theoretically they should be winning every single game...

Actually mikey, that's the whole point. Wales have the team to be challenging at the top of the game. That was my point earlier, I believe that's pretty much what beshocked thinks, though he'll tell you if that's incorrect. Gatland/his team haven't quite pushed you on to that point yet, it should be coming, you have some great players. No need to get uppity!

mikey_dragon wrote:We've won a tournament and been in the top 3 challenging for the title ever since that year. Beating England isn't the be-all-end-all like a lot of you like to think, in fact it's pretty sad.

Yes mikey you have been in the top 3 " in the Northern Hemisphere", but you have struggled againts the  top 3 Souther hemisphere teams.

England have only won it this year, but have beaten  the top three southern hemisphere team in that same  time.


Both England and Wales should be beaten Sa, Aus, Nz, more often than they do.

majesticimperialman wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:We've won a tournament and been in the top 3 challenging for the title ever since that year. Beating England isn't the be-all-end-all like a lot of you like to think, in fact it's pretty sad.

Yes mikey you have been in the top 3 " in the Northern Hemisphere", but you have struggled againts the  top 3 Souther hemisphere teams.

England have only won it this year, but have beaten  the top three southern hemisphere team in that same  time.


Both England and Wales should  be beaten Sa, Aus, Nz, more often than they do.

No they haven't madge, England have played a SH elite team once this year, and lost. I agree both England and Wales should notch up a few more wins against the thugs and convicts though. Wins over NZ is less likely.

This game on sky or the Beeb?

Sky

Does anyone know where they would show this game around the Bristol harbour front? BSB would more than likely be one, but I've always thought that place was a bit of a dive.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

BamBam wrote:I think you underestimate how much Gatland would enjoy tanking England at Twickenham

We do it often not much of a surprise now..... remember the World Cup ??  

We need our lads for proper matches in June.

To suffer another "plucky" series defeat to NZ

Hahaha coming from England that is so sad pal.  53,000,000 vs 3,063,000.  You lead us by one test match. I must admit I am embarrassed that we are one behind.

You need to learn to read as well pal.  I was referring to your NZ tour when all we'll hear is abiut the 'plucky' Welsh losing gallantly.....

You need to understand what it is you are writing before you post it.  Plucky enough to kick you out of YOUR world cup

Yes , congratulations that was you winning your world cup...

Jamie Roberts, Bradley Davies, Ross Moriarty and Rhys Priestland all available after usual hard-line stance is relaxed for Twickenham next weekend.

This match has been arranged by the RFU to provide financial compensation to the Aviva Premiership clubs in return for the start of the league season being delayed to make way for the World Cup.

And it's emerged that part of the agreement was for English-based players would be released to whoever the opposition country was and that has turned out to be Wales.

Exeter prop Tomas Francis will be absent as his club face Saracens in the Premiership final at Twickenham the day before, having beaten Davies' Wasps 34-23 in today's second semi-final at Sandy Park.

Utility back Matthew Morgan is also unlikely to be involved as Bristol take on Doncaster in the second leg of the Championship play-off final at Ashton Gate on Wednesday night.

And French-based duo Jonathan Davies and Luke Charteris will be on club duty with Clermont Auvergne and Racing 92 respectively, so not available.

In contrast, England will be without a host of their Grand Slam-winning team as a result of Saracens and Exeter meeting in the Premiership final next Saturday, the day before the Test match.

Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Chris Ashton, Owen Farrell, Jamie George and Mako and Billy Vunipola will all be away with Sarries, who battered Leicester 44-17 in today's first semi-final, while Jack Nowell, Henry Slade, Geoff Parling and Luke Cowan-Dickie are part of the Exeter set-up.  Joe Marler has also ruled himself out. Leicester centre Manu Tuilagi may also be out of contention after injuring a hamstring in his club's 44-17 defeat by Saracens.

Wales:

15 Liam Williams
14 George North
13 Scott Williams
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Alex Cuthbert
10 Dan Biggar
9 Rhys Webb
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun Wyn-Jones
4 Bradley Davies
3 Sampson Lee
2 Scott Baldwin
1 Rob Evans

Pretty happy with that in all honesty. England seem to have 12 out so far.

That's a really strong team.

I'm a bit worried about England's squad now.

Assuming the play off losers can play? We may see:

Hill
Hartley
Cole (Brookes)
Lawes
Launchbury (Attwood)
Robshaw
Haskell (Clifford)
Harrison/Clifford
Care
Ford
Roko
Tuilagi (Devoto)
Joseph (Daly)
Watson
Brown

Obviously if Jones rests the guys from the play offs then that'll change a fair bit (guys in brackets)

Well I doubt that Manu will be playing...

Was his injury bad? Or was he subbed off as a precaution?

yappysnap wrote:Was his injury bad? Or was he subbed off as a precaution?

Leicester centre Manu Tuilagi may also be out of contention after injuring a hamstring in his club's 44-17 defeat by Saracens.

yappysnap wrote:Assuming the play off losers can play? We may see:

Hill
Hartley
Cole (Brookes)
Lawes
Launchbury (Attwood)
Robshaw
Haskell (Clifford)
Harrison/Clifford
Care
Ford
Roko
Tuilagi (Devoto)
Joseph (Daly)
Watson
Brown

Obviously if Jones rests the guys from the play offs then that'll change a fair bit (guys in brackets)

Yappy stop taking the píss, I was almost happy until you posted that lot of players up. Can you change about 8 or 9 of them please so we can win one

yappysnap wrote:Assuming the play off losers can play? We may see:

Hill
Hartley
Cole (Brookes)
Lawes
Launchbury (Attwood)
Robshaw
Haskell (Clifford)
Harrison/Clifford
Care
Ford
Roko
Tuilagi (Devoto)
Joseph (Daly)
Watson
Brown

Obviously if Jones rests the guys from the play offs then that'll change a fair bit (guys in brackets)

Hill is a tighthead. With the departure of Marler and Mako otherwise engaged I would suggest that Eddie will drop Mullan into starting spot. I mean who else is there at this point? Auterac has been injured for months and only managed to get a few cameos off the bench in April. Ross Harrison from Sale? Alex Waller? He seems to be out in the cold a little bit.

I've read on other sites that that Ellis Genge might get a game, it sounds a little far fetched but I reckon he could get a game somewhere in the summer. We've got two tough tours which means that we will need to find four or possibly five loosehead props. Marler is out, which leaves England a little exposed. Perhaps Jones will test Genge's mettle in the Wales game?

I've read that Tuilagi looks like he is out for the summer (poor bugger can't seems to get his body right), which leaves us a little short at inside centre too, my suggestion is that Jones will go Devoto at inside and Joseph at outside, which could exciting.

I'd be looking at:

Mullan
Hartley
Brookes
Launchbury
Lawes
Robshaw
Harrison
Clifford
Care
Ford
Yarde
Devoto
Daly
Roko
Watson

Taylor
Waller
Sinckler/Hill (depends on training form and who's going to Aus)
Attwood
Kvesic
Robson
Cipriani
Joseph

Hartley to lead the team for 45/50 minutes before making way. Launchbury, Robshaw, Care, Ford and Daly very much playing for their positions in the team or matchday squad and none are guaranteed starters. Then a fair degree of experimentation and rotation, but not chucking anyone in because it is still a capped game after all.

Looks a decent pick. Front five is good. Hartley is first choice pick anyway and Brookes was in danger of overtaking Cole prior to the start of the 6 nations, if I remember correctly. Lawes and Launchbury formed a very good second row partnership in the recent past and would still be there but for the outstanding form of the Sarries pair. Back-row looks ballanced. I still reckon Jones will plump for Joseph ahead of Daly at 13. I reckon Mike Brown will be at fullback too.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sorry, that's rainbow. You beat England and that's all that matters to you. Hopefully most Welsh fans believe that they're actually better than that now.

You got it so wrong. I find the England game very matter of fact and just another game. I see and always have France and Ireland as better games. Beating England just shuts them up for a while.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sorry, that's rainbow. You beat England and that's all that matters to you. Hopefully most Welsh fans believe that they're actually better than that now.

You got it so wrong.  I find the England game very matter of fact and just another game.  I see and always have France and Ireland as better games.  Beating England just shuts them up for a while.

Do you ever write anything constructive? I mean, what is the point of you?

Shifty wrote:Wales:

15 Liam Williams
14 George North
13 Scott Williams
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Alex Cuthbert
10 Dan Biggar
9 Rhys Webb
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun Wyn-Jones
4 Bradley Davies
3 Sampson Lee
2 Scott Baldwin
1 Rob Evans

Pretty happy with that in all honesty.  England seem to have 12 out so far.

Cuthberts already been ruled out through injury so it will be Amos or James on the wing.

Genge is a huge shock but he has looked really good for Tigers.

With a 26 man squad of:

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Exeter Chiefs), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Forwards: Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps).

I am guessing that Burrell, Sinckler and one from Harrison/Kvesic to drop out - though would rather both the last two were in the 23 and Haskell was rested.


Amazing that in less than two months Genge has gone from unwanted by a second tier club side to probably on the bench for a full international.

My team would be (Giving Cole and Haskell a rest and Manu injured)
1) Mullan
2) Hartley
3) Hill
4) Launhcbury
5) Attwood
6) Robshaw
7) Kvesic
8) Clifford
9) Care
10) Ford
11) Yarde
12) Burrell (EWWWWW)
13) JJ
14) Watson
15) Brown

16) Taylor
17) Genge
18) Sinckler
19) Lawes
20) Harrison
21) Youngs
22) Devoto
23) Daly

Ah, had not noticed Manu in the squad - yeah almost sure to drop out. With Kvesic not in the Aus party, Harrison must be favoured to start ahead of him.

LondonTiger wrote:With a 26 man squad of:

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Exeter Chiefs), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Forwards: Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps).

I am guessing that Burrell, Sinckler and one from Harrison/Kvesic to drop out - though would rather both the last two were in the 23 and Haskell was rested.


Amazing that in less than two months Genge has gone from unwanted by a second tier club side to probably on the bench for a full international.

My friend is a big Bristol supporter and I don't think it was a case that he was unwanted. My mate believes that Genge was motivated to leave the city due to some off field issues. They are gutted to see him leave apparently.

Cumbrian, we could always let England have this seasons best performing LH.... Bobby V? Ha ha

Aye, what do you call it? An Indian summer to the big lad's career? Mental.

Big vote of confidence for Ford by selecting him as the only recognised 10 in the squad. Can't be the correct decision on form grounds, so are we to assume this is purely "man-management" reasons? Give him all the confidence he needs to regain his form with England?

If Manu makes it, I'd start with him because he needs minutes and he hasn't played in this team before. Otherwise, I'd go with Devoto.

Is Shifty's team confirmed? It's a very strong Wales team if so, and we'll need to put our best out to have a chance.

robbo277 wrote:Big vote of confidence for Ford by selecting him as the only recognised 10 in the squad. Can't be the correct decision on form grounds, so are we to assume this is purely "man-management" reasons? Give him all the confidence he needs to regain his form with England?

If Manu makes it, I'd start with him because he needs minutes and he hasn't played in this team before. Otherwise, I'd go with Devoto.

Is Shifty's team confirmed? It's a very strong Wales team if so, and we'll need to put our best out to have a chance.

Cuthbert is injured so definitely will not play, I suspect that AWJ may not make this game either and with Charteris unavailable, it's a choice between playing two front line jumpers ( Ball and Bradley) or a back rower at 5. I would not be suprised to see Samson given a bit more time to get over his head injury as well.

Seagultaf wrote:

robbo277 wrote:Big vote of confidence for Ford by selecting him as the only recognised 10 in the squad. Can't be the correct decision on form grounds, so are we to assume this is purely "man-management" reasons? Give him all the confidence he needs to regain his form with England?

If Manu makes it, I'd start with him because he needs minutes and he hasn't played in this team before. Otherwise, I'd go with Devoto.

Is Shifty's team confirmed? It's a very strong Wales team if so, and we'll need to put our best out to have a chance.

Cuthbert is injured so definitely will not play, I suspect that AWJ may not make this game either and with Charteris unavailable, it's a choice between playing two front line jumpers ( Ball and Bradley) or a back rower at 5. I would not be suprised to see Samson given a bit more time to get over his head injury as well.

Thanks for the update. Will look out for the team going up with interest.

Just my opinion of course, but I feel that Ford's "lack of form" has been seriously exaggerated on these boards.

Add in the fact that Cipriani is back in court on Thursday and who else is there?