What an absolutely pathetic end to the Welsh regional season

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Well, the title says it all really. What a pathetic, embarrassing finish to the PRO12 it was for the Welsh regions. I am livid, as a Welsh rugby fan I am bouncing, and it just goes to show how right I am when I talk about the attitudes towards the game that the regions take. What does it matter to the regions that they got beaten on the weekend ? Nothing, that's what, they do not have to worry.

Ospreys knew what they needed to do and the were shamed in their own back yard. If I were a paying customer on Saturday I would have been demanding my money back. Scarlets were the same, they just gave up in the second half, and the less said about Dragons the better. Where was the pride ? 

I live in hope that next season will be better, Welsh domestic rugby is in a dark place at the moment, how any fans of the regions can come on here and defend their teams showing over this season is beyond me. No doubt I will get attacked from every quarter on here by the likes of Risca, Stone motif, mikey dragon, PhillBB, Scarletspiderman, but how can they argue ? It's no wonder that the amount of fans going to watch our regions are not as good as elsewhere, it's because of the crap being served up infront of them week in week out, who would want to keep paying for it ?

But what does it matter, the regions will still get the same funding next year, they will still get the same money from Europe, nothing will change for them, so why should they change ?

Like two peas in a pod.

Kingshu wrote:The Union stepping in to lead a review and help the regions pinpoint issues and help resolve them

They've had 13 frigging years to pinpoint issues and resolve them

What difference is this poxy review gonna make?

It's like a parents evening for the thick kids

"Erm...yeah...your son needs to try harder in school and stuff"

In this review, hope the pro teams raise the question about when the international windows are going to mean something. Or maybe tell cement head to get his own house in order before worrying about the pro teams. Try encouraging more of the exiles to play in Wales and properly enforce this so called Gatland's Law. It's also no wonder there's a jobs for the boys mentality in the pro teams (to an extent), when it happens with Team Wales too.

Might be a good start for the teams if Team Wales did a bit more skills work internationally too, as opposed to flogging the players.

Didn't they say before one of the World Cup warm-up games that they hadn't done any skills work at all?

They sure did.

If a close working relationship between RRW and the WRU leads to better performances for the Regions and Wales(at all age grades) I'm all for it.My problem is that I could believe Sean Edwards could improve defensive systems at the Regions but I have no confidence whatsoever that McBryde and Howley have the necessary and sufficient coaching competencies to improve forward and offensive play at the Regions to the extent necessary to match the best of Super and European club rugby.That's almost touching on the surreal.Anyway,shouldn't it be the case that the Regions should be exporting the best of their offensive and defensive systems to Team Wales if and where they exist.Does seem the wrong way around for me.

Crisis! What crisis?

LordDowlais wrote:

offload wrote:Nothing new - the regional product has been dire for years and getting worse.

This.100%.

RiscaGame wrote:Answer the question. Who defends their teams?

PhillBB, Cardif Dave, TrueRaven to name a few. If I here how better Cardiff Blues are doing under Danny Wilson this season I will explode, yep they are doing so much better, they have finished one place higher in the league.

They are though.
Boomsh!
I think that sound was LD exploding inside his WRU, Roger monogrammed pink onesie. Euurgh!!

exile jack wrote:If a close working relationship between RRW and the WRU leads to better performances for the Regions and Wales(at all age grades) I'm all for it.My problem is that I could believe Sean Edwards could improve defensive systems at the Regions but I have no confidence whatsoever that McBryde and Howley have the necessary and sufficient coaching competencies to improve forward and offensive play at the Regions to the extent necessary to match the best of Super and European club rugby.That's almost touching on the surreal.Anyway,shouldn't it be the case that the Regions should be exporting the best of their offensive and defensive systems to Team Wales if and where they exist.Does seem the wrong way around for me.

Aye.

Allty wrote:Crisis!  What crisis?  

Just asking, but who was it that suggested there was a crisis anyway? The Beeb or the Fail maybe?

"It's not crisis time at all, it's time for some level heads," said Davies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36266158

LordDowlais wrote:Well, the title says it all really. What a pathetic, embarrassing finish to the PRO12 it was for the Welsh regions. I am livid, as a Welsh rugby fan I am bouncing, and it just goes to show how right I am when I talk about the attitudes towards the game that the regions take. What does it matter to the regions that they got beaten on the weekend ? Nothing, that's what, they do not have to worry.

Ospreys knew what they needed to do and the were shamed in their own back yard. If I were a paying customer on Saturday I would have been demanding my money back. Scarlets were the same, they just gave up in the second half, and the less said about Dragons the better. Where was the pride ? 

I live in hope that next season will be better, Welsh domestic rugby is in a dark place at the moment, how any fans of the regions can come on here and defend their teams showing over this season is beyond me. No doubt I will get attacked from every quarter on here by the likes of Risca, Stone motif, mikey dragon, PhillBB, Scarletspiderman, but how can they argue ? It's no wonder that the amount of fans going to watch our regions are not as good as elsewhere, it's because of the crap being served up infront of them week in week out, who would want to keep paying for it ?

But what does it matter, the regions will still get the same funding next year, they will still get the same money from Europe, nothing will change for them, so why should they change ?

You're spot on.

None of them are trying to improve at all.

LordDowlais wrote:If I here how better Cardiff Blues are doing under Danny Wilson this season I will explode, yep they are doing so much better, they have finished one place higher in the league.

This is a fantastic sentence. It's marvellously created.

It's almost Brent-esque.

LordDowlais wrote:
Yep, throw good money at bad money and hope it works. It is because the people running the regions cannot run a p!ss up in a brewery why they are in such a mess.

When you consider their competitors, yours is an interesting stance. In France and England, their competitors can negotiate their own TV deals. In France and England, each respective Union pays more for services provided than do the WRU.

In Ireland and Scotland, the same applies - their unions pay more money into the domestic professional game.

Therefore, in Wales, the four teams are already on the back foot when it comes to the major income streams. This means, in turn, that their salary bill is either going to be low or subsidised by Directors loans (thanks to the UK tax system) and either of those events leads to criticism from folk like yourself.

So, they cannot control their own major income streams and if their directors make up the shortfall they are also criticised. That may explain why there's the thought that they 'cannot run a urine up in a brewery'. In fact, they can't even choose the brewer or the pint, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

The French corporate tax law sees nigh on 50% of the income into T14 sides come in the form of sponsorship. Local authorities also pile in cash, something that would be frowned upon here (unless its WAG chucking Roger a huge wad for the Mill Stad pitch, including having meetings with the WRU that weren't even minuted).

All of those basic investments allow the product on the pitch to be strong and it is that product that then attracts ticket buyers who, in turn, spend cash on merchandise etc.

Meanwhile, in Wales, our four are hamstrung in all directions by deals cut by Roger Lewis. And, for that, it is they who are criticised.

In short, its absolutely bonkers thinking.

Feck me Phil, that was a load of long winded bollox. I am going to save everybody else the trouble reading it, all it means is one word.

EXCUSE.

So much for debating

Interesting news from France and the tv deal.

New French Top 14 TV deal will bring in £75m a year, the Aviva Prem deal delivers £40m plus and Pro12 around £11.5m.

RiscaGame wrote:Interesting news from France and the tv deal.

New French Top 14 TV deal will bring in £75m a year, the Aviva Prem deal delivers £40m plus and Pro12 around £11.5m.

But how many of those English and French clubs are really solvent as opposed to reliance on accounting ingenuity? I suppose that until Pro12 teams start to win the RCC1 and RCC2 tournaments the financial attraction of the Pro12 to TV will remain understated.The 2016/17 Pro12 season needs to set a much higher performance bar.I'm hoping that's the case anyway.

LordDowlais wrote:

Feck me Phil, that was a load of long winded bollox. I am going to save everybody else the trouble reading it, all it means is one word.

EXCUSE.

Good old Bowellais - staggering hypocrisy and ignorance all in the same post.

Which parts are bollix exactly?

LordDowlais wrote:

Feck me Phil, that was a load of long winded bollox. I am going to save everybody else the trouble reading it, all it means is one word.

EXCUSE.

You've obviously inhaled too much carpet dust if that's your understanding of business.

exile jack wrote:
But how many of those English and French clubs are really solvent as opposed to reliance on accounting ingenuity? I suppose that until Pro12 teams start to win the RCC1 and RCC2 tournaments the financial attraction of the Pro12 to TV will remain understated.The 2016/17 Pro12 season needs to set a much higher performance bar.I'm hoping that's the case anyway.

All French clubs have to be solvent as they are audited each year by the DNACG, who then publish their reports.

The French domestic TV deal dwarfs the French EPRC deal.

It is TV that drives up the standard of play by allowing more income to pay salaries. You've got your cart before the horse in that post.

Stone Motif wrote:
Good old Bowellais - staggering hypocrisy and ignorance all in the same post.

Which parts are bollix exactly?

He's good, isn't he? A typical troll.

I can see you typing Phil, but all I am reading is excuses.

Don't ever moan about people not debating with you again Dowellais.

I suppose it's a pretty effective way of you hiding the fact that you're out of your depth though.

LordDowlais wrote:I can see you typing Phil, but all I am reading is excuses.

Let's take your carpet business.

Say that you couldn't choose what carpets to sell and you couldn't choose your buy price. You couldn't choose the times that your shop opened and you couldn't affect the discount that your two biggest customers received.

Down the road from you, Carpet Right sells multiple more carpets than you do. It is immeasurably more successful than you are. It can choose its opening times, it can buy at lower prices than you, it can make more margin.

The Chief Exec of Carpet Right earns £982,000 a year. You live in Merthyr.

Are you a failure or an excuse maker?

RiscaGame wrote:Don't ever moan about people not debating with you again Dowellais.

I suppose it's a pretty effective way of you hiding the fact that you're out of your depth though.

He can't debate as he knows the answer I provided undoes his trolling. Of course, he lacks the grace to admit that.

It reminds me of the time he told me that the Clubhouse of Cardiff Athletic Club wasn't at Cardiff Arms Park and he tried to tell me who takes the income stream from events at Cardiff Arms Park. He lacked the wit and grace to admit his error on that, too.

He's quite clearly an empty troll and a fraud of a poster. He is not genuine.

Phil, the regions can do what ever they want, they are not owned by the WRU. All some people do on here, you, risca, mikey, stone is insult people when you are called out.

I have heard the same excuses rolled out by you over and over, along with others blaming the WRU for all the failings at the regions. Roger Lewis has gone now, there should be no more excuses. 

But it is easier to call me a fraud and a troll, the insults come easy when you are having to make excuses to defend the team you support.

And it's the people mentioned in this reply who add NOTHING to this forum, except jumping onto other people's articles and trying to belittle them, not once do I see you or the others mentioned actually starting up a thread to create a debate on here. Yet here you are throwing insults around.

I have answered you on numerous occasions, yet you keep coming back on here bringing up the same excuses that it's all the WRU's fault.

Starting a thread

Hang about, I'll go and see which of your paper's offerings I can clickbait up on one now.

If you were starting threads for debate Dowellais, you wouldn't have resorted to your last few excuses posts. You're a fine one to talk about being repetitive by the way.

LordDowlais wrote:Phil, the regions can do what ever they want

Can they choose and negotiate the competition they play in?
Can they negotiate their own tv rights?
Can they ignore the terms of the RSA?

Let's deal with those three first of all in the light of the part of your post that I've quoted.

Once you've admitted that they can do none of those things, we can shine a light on the stupidity of your comment.

LordDowlais wrote:Roger Lewis has gone now, there should be no more excuses. 

But it is easier to call me a fraud and a troll, the insults come easy when you are having to make excuses to defend the team you support.

And it's the people mentioned in this reply who add NOTHING to this forum, except jumping onto other people's articles and trying to belittle them, not once do I see you or the others mentioned actually starting up a thread to create a debate on here. Yet here you are throwing insults around.

I have answered you on numerous occasions, yet you keep coming back on here bringing up the same excuses that it's all the WRU's fault.

All I'm doing is pointing out the fallacy in your alleged opinion, Andy. If you had any gumption or honesty, you'd recognise that the points I raise simply disprove your claims and you'd change or temper your opinion.

Highlighting the errors of others by providing the evidence that disproves their claim does a huge service for any forum, otherwise you'd have it polluted by idiots who post nonsense and lies and then refuse to debate the posts that disprove them. And you wouldn't want that kind of behaviour on this forum, would you?

Unsurprisingly, Andy Dowellais has gone quiet.

But let's not stop looking at the issues here. The PrO'12 brings in about £1m in TV rights for each of its participants, but PRW have ZERO part in its negotiations. They have ZERO input into even wanting to play in this competition.

Meanwhile, LNR has just signed a TV deal that will bring in three times as much to each Top 14 club in domestic tv rights than PRW get. Three times.

In England, we have this: http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/25644/exclusive-rfu-agree-220m-deal-for-their-premiership-clubs/

"While sticking points remain, such as the redrawing of academy boundaries following the relocations of Wasps and Saracens, the £27.5m-a-year deal will enable individual clubs to rake in well in excess of £2m in RFU funding each season.

With TV and sponsorship money worth £4.1m-a-year on top, clubs can budget on receiving over £6m per annum from season 2016-17 – if they meet RFU criteria."

Presently, the WRU pays each PRW team c.£1.8m a year, so the English are about to have a 10% rise on that DESPITE their workload being split 12 ways instead of 4 in Wales. Therefore, the simple rule of thumb is that PRW are hit three times as hard by the international game.

Is there any point going any further in completely discrediting Andy Dowellais?

And you keep putting every performance that the teams make down to being the fault of the WRU.

The WRU are not at fault for gutless error strewn performances week in week out.

LordDowlais wrote:And you keep putting every performance that the teams make down to being the fault of the WRU.

The WRU are not at fault for gutless error strewn performances week in week out.

It may have escaped your attention, but the number of errors performed by better players is lower than those performed by weaker players. Therefore, better players on the pitch means fewer errors. And how do you get better players on the pitch? You pay them more.

Which brings us back to money.

Which brings us back to you 100% false claim of "the regions can do what ever they want".

Also, I can't remember too many 'gutless' Cardiff performances this season, so I think that your desire to use hyperbole is shaming your judgement ability.

Someone is losing investment money here. Someone ain't sleeping too well at night.

In France, the FFR agreed to pay a minimum of €23m over 4 years for what the WRU pays £7m a year for.

However, on top of that €23m, the FFR pay €1300 a DAY for player access to both seniors and u20 players. That means that the true price is more like €10m a year.

And, of course, there are 14 French clubs sharing the burden of international rugby compared to the 4 in Wales. Therefore, the 4 in Wales are hit proportionately significantly harder.

SecretFly wrote:Someone is losing investment money here.    Someone ain't sleeping too well at night.  

?

Its been going downhill for the Welsh regions for some time, sad really as they are very passionate supporters and always make for a great day out.

eirebilly wrote:Its been going downhill for the Welsh regions for some time, sad really as they are very passionate supporters and always make for a great day out.

Lots of green shoots now in place thanks to Roger Lewis leaving his job.

PhilBB wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Its been going downhill for the Welsh regions for some time, sad really as they are very passionate supporters and always make for a great day out.

Lots of green shoots now in place thanks to Roger Lewis leaving his job.

Agree, but the point that Dowellais and his like spectacularly miss (unsurprisingly) is that it'll take a while until we reap the rewards of him going.

I am aware that you understand this though. I'm just trying to help him out.

RiscaGame wrote:
I am aware that you understand this though. I'm just trying to help him out.

The short (pun intended) time I spend here indicates that he's not interested in being helped. He's not interested in being accurate.

He just likes the reaction.

PhilBB wrote:It may have escaped your attention, but the number of errors performed by better players is lower than those performed by weaker players. Therefore, better players on the pitch means fewer errors. And how do you get better players on the pitch? You pay them more.

Another excuse. The talent is there, the same players do not feck up as much when they are playing for Wales.

PhilBB wrote:However, on top of that €23m, the FFR pay €1300 a DAY for player access to both seniors and u20 players. That means that the true price is more like €10m a year. 

Another excuse. What has what the French pay got to do with performances in the Pro12 ?

PhilBB wrote:And, of course, there are 14 French clubs sharing the burden of international rugby compared to the 4 in Wales. Therefore, the 4 in Wales are hit proportionately significantly harder.

Another excuse. Again, what has that got to do with the Pro12? Scotland only have two clubs, and look at Glasgow go.

LordDowlais wrote:
Another excuse. The talent is there, the same players do not feck up as much when they are playing for Wales.

Rugby is a team game, not a game of individuals. Teams are only as strong as their weakest point.

Top players being surrounded by dross will mean their standards are dragged down.

This is basic. You should understand this.

LordDowlais wrote:
Another excuse. What has what the French pay got to do with performances in the Pro12 ?

Quite simply because if Mike Phillips, Luke Charteris, Jon Davies and the likes of Casey Laulala were playing in PRW teams then the standard would increase.

Again, this is basic. You should know this.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Another excuse. The talent is there, the same players do not feck up as much when they are playing for Wales.

Rugby is a team game, not a game of individuals. Teams are only as strong as their weakest point.

Top players being surrounded by dross will mean their standards are dragged down.

This is basic. You should understand this.

Good luck - I've already tried that.

Keep rolling out the excuses Phil. At least you will get support from your regional chums on here.


By your reckoning, players like Rob Evans, Jake Ball, Samson Lee get smashed about in the Pro12 because they have Steven Shingler in their team.

FFS.

LordDowlais wrote:
Another excuse. Again, what has that got to do with the Pro12? Scotland only have two clubs, and look at Glasgow go.

Glasgow the team with 35+ internationals on their books so can withstand losing players to Scotland better than can any Welsh team. Edinburgh are awful and packed with foreigners, in case you hadn't noticed.

LordDowlais wrote:Keep rolling out the excuses Phil. At least you will get support from your regional chums on here.

The idea that 'we're not as good as our opposition in pro sport because they have significantly more money than us' is an excuse is really, really weird thinking. Really weird.

In fact, it's illogical to the point of being unnatural.

And, of course, you're a coward for not answering the three questions asked of you above.

PhilBB wrote:And, of course, you're a coward for not answering the three questions asked of you above.

I have answered them and you have answered them back, so what the frig are you on about ?

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:And, of course, you're a coward for not answering the three questions asked of you above.

I have answered them and you have answered them back, so what the frig are you on about ?

Answer these:

Can they choose and negotiate the competition they play in?
Can they negotiate their own tv rights?
Can they ignore the terms of the RSA?

LordDowlais wrote:
By your reckoning, players like Rob Evans, Jake Ball, Samson Lee get smashed about in the Pro12 because they have Steven Shingler in their team.

Where do they get 'smashed about'?

If you cannot understand that rugby is a team game then there's little hope.

PhilBB wrote:Can they choose and negotiate the competition they play in?
Can they negotiate their own tv rights?
Can they ignore the terms of the RSA?

The regions agreed to all these terms in the RSA before they were rolled out didn't they ?

The regions can decide which competitions they play in, were they not threatening to join the English not so long ago ?

How the FF could the regions negotiate their own TV deal ? Who would want to pay for sole rights to air the dross the regions serve up ?