Heineken Cup vs Super 15

What would you all say to an exhibition match being played between the winners of these two competitions? Either at the end of each season or every 2/4 years. Obviously all hypothetical, but I'm bored, and wouldn't mind a healthy discussion.

Exhibition match? No way. A competitive annual game to be played for World Cup Champion. HEC winner v S15 winner. Stage it in a different venue every year.

It would be an interesting idea, possibly it should be the winner of the premiership, heineken, top 14 and magners vs winner of the currie cup, new zealand cup, australian conference in the s15 and the s15 winner overall in an 8 club competition.

MR. scotland27 wrote:It would be an interesting idea, possibly it should be the winner of the premiership, heineken, top 14 and magners vs winner of the currie cup, new zealand cup, australian conference in the s15 and the s15 winner overall in an 8 club competition.

Where are they possibly going to find the time to have a tournament with 8 teams. Thats at a minimum 7 games to shove into the rugby calendar.

I agree there wouldn't be any time for another tournament. However, if it were to be an important match, I feel it'd have to be double-legged, so that both teams play home and away, to make it both fair and marketable, as it'd cost huge amounts of money for away fans to travel.

i know it is unlikely but it would certainly settle a debate that has been going on for quite a while, and I would fancy an NH side to win, most probably top 14 or HC winner.

The Currie Cup and the New Zealand Cup (sponsor keeps changing!) are the provincial teams from which the Super 15 players are selelcted so it is not workable.

HC v S15 is the ultimate clash, although if it was England or France playing it would be club v Franchise!

My view is that what makes rugby so special is that this could be one question to which we'll never know the answer.
Bit like KNOWING what you're getting for Christmas the anticipation goes.

If it never happens we can always wonder.

Id love to see a one of game at some point - Perhaps in one of the lull seasons (no Lions, no WC) - It would certainly be an interesting match.

They could keep it fresh by only having it every 4 years like the Lions.

I'm for it - like they already do in Rugby League WCC.

HC v S15 winners play off for the World Rugby Union Club Championship - every year at alternating NH/SH venues. Would give us all something more to talk about...and it would be a cracker of a match no doubt.

I hate silly questions like this



... Heineken cup teams would just run the S15 teams ragged and walk through their religious and 'holey' (See what i did!!) defences

Linebreaker wrote:I'm for it - like they already do in Rugby League WCC.

HC v S15 winners play off for the World Rugby Union Club Championship - every year at alternating NH/SH venues. Would give us all something more to talk about...and it would be a cracker of a match no doubt.

Neutral venue.

Hong Kong
Dubai

Somewhere like that.

These would have been the match ups over the years had this have been in place

1996 - Blues vs. Toulouse
1997 - Blues vs. Brive
1998 - Crusaders vs. Bath
1999 - Crusaders vs. Ulster
2000 - Crusaders vs. Northampton Saints
2001 - Brumbies vs. Leicester Tigers
2002 - Crusaders vs. Leicester Tigers
2003 - Blues vs. Toulouse
2004 - Brumbies vs. London Wasps
2005 - Crusaders vs. Toulouse
2006 - Crusaders vs. Munster
2007 - Bulls vs. London Wasps
2008 - Crusaders vs. Munster
2009 - Bulls vs. Leinster
2010 - Bulls vs. Toulouse
2011 - ??? vs. Leinster

Looking at those fixtures and thinking back to the particular teams concerned, there are some fantastic match ups, and real clashes of styles. If I get time later I might start individual threads for each analysing the players who would have played and see what everything thinks the results would have been.

I think that would be a great advertisement for rugby and should be staged in developing rugby nations. It's only one more game to be factored in and would be great for the sport.

Scheduling has proved the big bottleneck for a world club match - by the time the Super XV season finishes the NH players are all either on holiday or touring for the June internationals. SXV teams don't re-assemble until the following January, halfway through the following NH season. It has been proposed in the past but negotiations have always fallen over around the date of the match. So until/unless a global season materialises it sadly won't happen.

As far as the historic matchups go, my picks would be (assuming neutral venue and no injuries):
1996 - Blues vs. Toulouse - Blues, probably the 2nd best Super side ever, after the 2002 Crusaders.
1997 - Blues vs. Brive - Blues still, but closer
1998 - Crusaders vs. Bath - probably Bath
1999 - Crusaders vs. Ulster - pass, heart says Crusaders
2000 - Crusaders vs. Northampton Saints - see 1999
2001 - Brumbies vs. Leicester Tigers - Tigers. George Smith v Neil Back would be some battle.
2002 - Crusaders vs. Leicester Tigers. Crusaders were unbeaten this season, and put 96 points on the Waratahs, the 4th best team in the comp
2003 - Blues vs. Toulouse - Toulouse
2004 - Brumbies vs. London Wasps - pass
2005 - Crusaders vs. Toulouse - Dan Carter was unstoppable in 05
2006 - Crusaders vs. Munster - too close to call
2007 - Bulls vs. London Wasps - Bulls. But I wouldn't pay to watch it
2008 - Crusaders vs. Munster - Munster
2009 - Bulls vs. Leinster - Bulls
2010 - Bulls vs. Toulouse - Toulouse, courtesy of the revised tackle ball interpretations
2011 - ??? vs. Leinster - depends on who wins SXV. Leinster could strangle the Reds enough to stop that backline from scoring enough points, and the Stormers would be close fought. However the Crusaders pack would have a big edge. Leinster would be too good for the Blues, Bulls, 'Tahs and Highlanders.

Kiwireddevil wrote:
1997 - Blues vs. Brive - Blues still, but closer

According to Wikipedia, on 22 February 1997, Brive, as European champions, were pitted against Auckland Blues who had recently won the Super 12. The French team were no competition to an extra powerful Kiwi side which won easily 47–11.

red_stag wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:
1997 - Blues vs. Brive - Blues still, but closer

According to Wikipedia, on 22 February 1997, Brive, as European champions, were pitted against Auckland Blues who had recently won the Super 12. The French team were no competition to an extra powerful Kiwi side which won easily 47–11.

I like this concept and had written an article on the old 606 about this same subject a few months ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A83005940

Personally, I think having an end of season match between the HC winner and S15 winner is a good idea. I think it should be an out-and-out championship and not an exhibition. It would be easy to market, and would help continue to raise the global image of Rugby. One match in one location, but to me should be in the S15 or HC countries. Adding any additonal teams or matches adds to the current congestion of matches. In fact, I am sure something would have to give in the NH schedule to make it work. Would be a huge money maker, and would help Rugby grow, if only by virtue of having a big global event. Based upon recent HC and S15 champions, would have fantastic matches almost every year.

The same porblem will exist with the Super XV vs HC Champions as there is with summer and winter tours, it is inevitable that one will be at peak and the other either at end of season or beginning of season.

It is a no win situation for someone.

I one off game between the two champions would be great to see. I am for it.

If this was ever to happen, it would have to made clear that forward passes are not allowed in rugby. That would stop about half of the tries from some of the Super XV teams.

The game at twickenham was unbearable to watch, so many forward passes...all in the name of 'exciting rugby'

Got to have a sync'ed season if we want this to happen, as there is just no room in the calender for a game like this.

If the match was played in Hong Kong/Dubai/wherever, it would be little more than an exhibition. I think you have to alternate it between the NH and the SH to make sure you get enough fans in.

All in all, I wouldn't bring the match in.

Great idea to pit the two winners against eachother, but given its not a legitimate game with proper silverware at the end of it, and just a means to excite fans - neither hemispheres club directors would want it, and even if they did sign up for it, its unlikely they would field a full first XV team.

National and provincial managers would go balistic if a player was injured for an unnecessary game.