EU exit - So folks what are you all thinking?

First topic message reminder :

Just curious to know what you all think and what way you will be voting.

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).
Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs
What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?
How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

Don't take it too seriously. He's just been out in the sun for too long

how about a general election then? oh wait, the opposition, in a majority, dont fancy it.

wtf

They do not want one that would allow Boris to sneak a no deal in through the back door - with parliament being shut during a campaign. Pretty much anyone with a few synapses understands that, but chooses to pretend not too for effect. If he asks for and gets an extension and they still refuse to permit an Election then you can moan.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12274412

So, is that an unexpected benefit or downside of Brexit?

So moved this over from the eligibility thread as it was deemed off topic to talk about human rights there. Brexit could have an impact on reducing human rights in the uk should the appropriate brexit be 'gained'. Could allow some unscrupulous owners to take advantage a little more on some.foreeign born talent.

LondonTiger wrote:They do not want one that would allow Boris to sneak a no deal in through the back door - with parliament being shut during a campaign. Pretty much anyone with a few synapses understands that, but chooses to pretend not too for effect. If he asks for and gets an extension and they still refuse to permit an Election then you can moan.

Thank goodness somebody else sees it too! I keep seeing people accusing the opposition of cowardice and can't decide whether the accusers are being thick or purposefully ignorant.

The likes of the Daily Heil will be the first to laugh about how good old Bozo got one over on the salty remoaners, should the opposition fall for this obvious tactic.

It is worrying just how many people seem to be falling for it though...

What is more worrying to me is that the Con artists are so high in the polls.

As many UK politicians have proven over the last 4 years or so, some of them are thick, some are liars and some of them are thick liars

Boris gets a new deal.

Seems though that it is actually worse than the May one

Blimey, reading the immediate messages above is like a breath of fresh air. You begin to wonder if the country has gone mad - obviously not all of it )

Oh completely mad.

Waiting to see if Govt pull their Election Bill because they do not want any kids or forners be allowed to vote.

Democracy is dead, the Tories will win and yet Parliament will still stop us leaving. AGAIN!

TightHEAD wrote:Democracy is dead

We have this system:

https://www.tutor2u.net/politics/reference/representative-democracy


We do not have this system:

https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-direct-democracy-definition-examples-pros-cons.html


Was the referendum legally binding:

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

At the end of the day, the vote was IN or OUT.

OUT won. We need to live with it.

Now, all we have, are politicians using BREXIT as a means to their own ends. Jeremy Corbyn was offered his own manifesto, without him realising and guess what, he rejected it.

The politicians need to take a good long look at themselves, they are letting the country down. I am so fed up of the whole debacle now. If the politicians are always going to reject any deal, even Theresa May's deals before, then they must want no deal, surely ? Or they are against that as well ? If so, then what is their agenda ?

Another vote is out of the question, because we will just have the opposite of what we have now, and there would be riots everywhere.

What we need is, for our politicians to start respecting the vote, we then need the Liberal Democrats and Labour to stop trying to win seats by promising a new referendum. These parties are just causing more trouble, that as a country, we could do without.

The people in Westminster are making our country look like village idiots. They have let the whole nation down, lets just get BREXIT done and move on. Do these politicians in Westminster realise what they are doing to this country ? How can we move on when all we are doing is arguing ?

Lets get BREXIT done, fix any of the damage it will cause, then make Britian great again. This is what ALL the politicians should now be aiming for.

The vote was in or out, based on the representation of what those choices meant by the respective campaigns.

What we need is a clear view of what the public want based on an accurate understanding of what the choices mean.

There could be people who voted Remain for fear of the unknown, but now see a deal where worker's rights are protected so may prefer to Leave with the Deal. There may be people who voted Leave as they were told getting a deal would be easy, but don't want a No Deal, so would vote remain

LordDowlais wrote:At the end of the day, the vote was  IN or OUT.

OUT won. We need to live with it.

Now, all we have, are politicians using BREXIT as a means to their own ends. Jeremy Corbyn was offered his own manifesto, without him realising and guess what, he rejected it.

The politicians need to take a good long look at themselves, they are letting the country down. I am so fed up of the whole debacle now. If the politicians are always going to reject any deal, even Theresa May's deals before, then they must want no deal, surely ? Or they are against that as well ? If so, then what is their agenda ?

Another vote is out of the question, because we will just have the opposite of what we have now, and there would be riots everywhere.

What we need is, for our politicians to start respecting the vote, we then need the Liberal Democrats and Labour to stop trying to win seats by promising a new referendum. These parties are just causing more trouble, that as a country, we could do without.

The people in Westminster are making our country look like village idiots. They have let the whole nation down, lets just get BREXIT done and move on. Do these politicians in Westminster realise what they are doing to this country ? How can we move on when all we are doing is arguing ?

Lets get BREXIT done, fix any of the damage it will cause, then make Britian great again. This is what ALL the politicians should now be aiming for.

If the UK was a proper democracy it would revert back to using parliament as it was intended. There should never have been referndum in the first place on such a complex issue (and not forgetting all the barefaced lies that were told in support of both sides of the argument). What really astounds me is how little consultation there has been with the administrations in Scotland and Wales in contrast to the DUP in Northern Ireland who do not represent the majority view. This is just not democracy in action.

You might think that its best to just 'do brexit' and get finished with it - the problem with this is that its only beginning.

Sin é wrote:You might think that its best to just 'do brexit' and get finished with it - the problem with this is that its only beginning.

Sorry, I do not agree with this.

This is not the beginning. The beginning started with David Cameron, the person who took us into this mess, then jumped ship. This was the beginning.

Then the people of the UK made their decisions, whether they were badly advised or not, the public made their vote, we all have our own minds, and the majority voted out. I fail to beleive it was all on ill advice. This was the next step.

We are now three quarters of the way down the road on this, and the scheming, underhanded politicians are now seeing this as an opportunity to meet their own ends, frig, Boris Johnson got himself a job as our prime minister because he used BREXIT for his own means.

This is the mess we are in. It's not because of BREXIT, it's because of the people we trusted to deliver BREXIT. The politicians have let the whole country down.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:You might think that its best to just 'do brexit' and get finished with it - the problem with this is that its only beginning.

Sorry, I do not agree with this.

This is not the beginning. The beginning started with David Cameron, the person who took us into this mess, then jumped ship. This was the beginning.

Then the people of the UK made their decisions, whether they were badly advised or not, the public made their vote, we all have our own minds, and the majority voted out. I fail to beleive it was all on ill advice. This was the next step.

We are now three quarters of the way down the road on this, and the scheming, underhanded politicians are now seeing this as an opportunity to meet their own ends, frig, Boris Johnson got himself a job as our prime minister because he used BREXIT for his own means.

This is the mess we are in. It's not because of BREXIT, it's because of the people we trusted to deliver BREXIT. The politicians have let the whole country down.

No sorry you haven't got the point. The point is that if we do leave its only the start of years of negotiations, years of effort replacing systems which are working right now but we have apparently chosen to throw away, and years of pain.

Brexit was sold as a simple process and it is anything but. Failure to deliver is not so much a reflection of our politicians (although the current bunch are appalling) but rather the complexity of the thing itself.

The actual process did indeed start before the referendum, but we are still in the foothills.

Last comment. There will not be riots. We were warned there would be riots today if we are not leaving and guess what.... Last I looked Mark Francois has not exploded yet either.

I shudder when I hear people advance the idea that people - in referendums - shouldn't be allowed vote on Big Issues - and then claim to be democrats.

That's the very time to vote.... when parliamentarian lobbyist slaves might nuzzle together in complicity and formulate some cosy elitist/knowledgeable/informed language to cheat you out of one.

Voting in referendums isn't the problem in itself if there are proper checks and balances. Interpretation of the vote is another thing altogether.

If the advisory brexit ref was to be treated properly it should have lead to a proper investigation of the process, royal commission or whatever, then some hard decisions. People are too fickle and the margin too small to do anything else. Get a proper margin of victory then there is a chance of finding a way forward.

Instead we have a situation where we have yet another GE but are not being allowed another vote on Brexit.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:You might think that its best to just 'do brexit' and get finished with it - the problem with this is that its only beginning.

Sorry, I do not agree with this.

This is not the beginning. The beginning started with David Cameron, the person who took us into this mess, then jumped ship. This was the beginning.

Then the people of the UK made their decisions, whether they were badly advised or not, the public made their vote, we all have our own minds, and the majority voted out. I fail to beleive it was all on ill advice. This was the next step.

We are now three quarters of the way down the road on this, and the scheming, underhanded politicians are now seeing this as an opportunity to meet their own ends, frig, Boris Johnson got himself a job as our prime minister because he used BREXIT for his own means.

This is the mess we are in. It's not because of BREXIT, it's because of the people we trusted to deliver BREXIT. The politicians have let the whole country down.

I'm afraid it was on ill advice. There was an interview on Irish TV the day before the vote with I think the mayor of one of the town on the Border in Ireland. He said that he was voting for Brexit because Theresa Villiers (who was Sec of State) and Boris Johnson told them at a town meeting that Brexit would make no difference to the Border situation as there would still be FoM between Ireland and UK. Its taken about 3 years to educate Boris and his ERG pals how the Single Market operates and the EU would certainly not be agreeing to an open border between the EU and a third country (like the UK).

How could people know what they were voting for when they were told so many lies?

lostinwales wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:You might think that its best to just 'do brexit' and get finished with it - the problem with this is that its only beginning.

Sorry, I do not agree with this.

This is not the beginning. The beginning started with David Cameron, the person who took us into this mess, then jumped ship. This was the beginning.

Then the people of the UK made their decisions, whether they were badly advised or not, the public made their vote, we all have our own minds, and the majority voted out. I fail to beleive it was all on ill advice. This was the next step.

We are now three quarters of the way down the road on this, and the scheming, underhanded politicians are now seeing this as an opportunity to meet their own ends, frig, Boris Johnson got himself a job as our prime minister because he used BREXIT for his own means.

This is the mess we are in. It's not because of BREXIT, it's because of the people we trusted to deliver BREXIT. The politicians have let the whole country down.

No sorry you haven't got the point. The point is that if we do leave its only the start of years of negotiations, years of effort replacing systems which are working right now but we have apparently chosen to throw away, and years of pain.

Brexit was sold as a simple process and it is anything but. Failure to deliver is not so much a reflection of our politicians (although the current bunch are appalling) but rather the complexity of the thing itself.

The actual process did indeed start before the referendum, but we are still in the foothills.

Last comment. There will not be riots. We were warned there would be riots today if we are not leaving and guess what.... Last I looked Mark Francois has not exploded yet either.

I have got the point thanks.


What do you think all these deals that keep getting reject are ? We will have to sort out any other issues as they arise. Do you think all the European countries who deal with us now, will just want to stop because we are out of the EU ? They stand to lose just as much.

I get it. You are somebody who wants to remain, I was as well. The difference is, I have now excepted the outcome of the vote. I have prepared for the worst. We cannot carry on like this, we need to get this over the line.

There will be a time, where people will come to terms with this, like yourself, and you will also be fed up of the whole debacle, and you will just want it done. We all need to realise, we are leaving the EU. No amount of dilly dallying, or delaying, by people who do not want to leave will change this.

The best thing we can do now, is all leave together, as one.

I would bet my life on it, that we could get the best deal ever, be in a place that puts the UK at the top of the pile, with some magic out of this world deal, and there would still be politicians who would try reject the deal, and that is what we need to move on from.

The election IS another vote on Brexit.  Anyone who claims different hasn't been living on Earth these past three years.  The public know why the Winter election has been called.  They know what they've been listening to (whether they wanted to or not) for three years on the airwaves.  Now is their chance to influence the topic again - To push it on or bury it in more quagmire.
How they vote will decide if a quick solution is doable and the European part of the world can at least begin talking about something else. Or it's back to the madhouse that is Westminster, where people argue that black is white, that No means Yes, that Yes is essentially No.

Sin é wrote:


How could people know what they were voting for when they were told so many lies?

So kill off all elections, including the one coming up because in all elections, the world over, people get told lies.  Candidates are humans.  We lie to get ahead. We lie to get jobs.  We lie to find a mate.  It's nature.  Lying isn't going to stop.  
The referendum and all elections are as much about people's aspirations as they are about political promises.  The aspiration in the referendum was to Leave the EU.  Lies are part of the human landscape.  But so are aspirations.  Instincts to shift and move and change.

People need to start realising, that BREXIT is happening. They need to come to terms with it, as the vote was cast, and we now have to live with it.

When people make their piece with that, and realise that no protesting, and jumping up and down will change it, then and only then can we move forwards.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:


How could people know what they were voting for when they were told so many lies?

So kill off all elections, including the one coming up because in all elections, the world over, people get told lies.  Candidates are humans.  We lie to get ahead. We lie to get jobs.  We lie to find a mate.  It's nature.  Lying isn't going to stop.  
The referendum and all elections are as much about people's aspirations as they are about political promises.  The aspiration in the referendum was to Leave the EU.  Lies are part of the human landscape.  But so are aspirations.  Instincts to shift and move and change.

Exactly, like I have said earlier, people can make up their own minds, the whole nation are not thick, and to brutally honest here, most voters did not cast their vote on BREXIT because of what the politicians were canvasing.

No.

Most people voted because they were fed up of the EU and fed up with immigration, that was the brass balls of it all. Not whether we can have a deal with the EU, or backstops. People in the UK were fed up with Brussels not listening to the UK public. I know this seems harsh, but that is the truth of it.

I voted to remain, I was gutted over the outcome, but I have now made my piece with it, and I would now like to try and embrace it, and make the best of it, now, and going forwards, no matter what hurdles we may encounter.

SecretFly wrote:I shudder when I hear people advance the idea that people - in referendums - shouldn't be allowed vote on Big Issues - and then claim to be democrats.

That's the very time to vote.... when parliamentarian lobbyist slaves might nuzzle together in complicity and formulate some cosy elitist/knowledgeable/informed language to cheat you out of one.

If they are not part of your democratic process, then they are ill advised. Take for instance the recent abortion referendum in Ireland. Apart from the Citizens Assembly recommendations, prior to the referendum, the Government published the draft legislation for abortion so everyone knew what they were voting for and which meant that it went through fairly quickly because the politicians knew what the people in the referendum actually voted for!

I feel that a referendum would have been ok if properly set up and honestly campaigned for.

With only 35% of the electorate voting in favour as it is, then we really can’t sensibly make such a massive decision based on that.

I think we need another properly set up referendum to advise the current thinking based upon what is now a much better understanding.

Have no idea which way it would go.

What a mess.

I was reading a report the other day, where they interviewed a number of staunch brexiteers and a number of staunch remainers.

They asked them questions along the lines of, what do you like about Great Britian ? And what do you want to change about Great Britian ? All questions along those lines.

And guess what ?

They all gave the same answers, they all wanted the same thing. Go figure.

The problem is that many on the leave side have never succeeded at anything in their lives before, suddenly they're on the winning side in something that they didn't have the foggiest clue about, and are unwilling to see past the most clear evidence that they voted for unicorns

They treat it as a football match "We won, get over it", because it's the only other time they've had any affiliation to success

I'm obviously a remainer, but I'm resigned to the thickest of all of us causing the UK's decline. I'll just move abroad, it's not a big deal for me because my skills are in demand, but I'll be sad for my country

Yup, not surprised really.

Same destination desired but completely different ways of getting there.

The problem for me is that I don’t think both ways will get us there.

Edit: In answer to LD

Both sides are patriotic. One side thinks the other are traitors, the other side thinks the first lot are deluded.

Thats where we are folks

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:


How could people know what they were voting for when they were told so many lies?

So kill off all elections, including the one coming up because in all elections, the world over, people get told lies.  Candidates are humans.  We lie to get ahead. We lie to get jobs.  We lie to find a mate.  It's nature.  Lying isn't going to stop.  
The referendum and all elections are as much about people's aspirations as they are about political promises.  The aspiration in the referendum was to Leave the EU.  Lies are part of the human landscape.  But so are aspirations.  Instincts to shift and move and change.

Exactly, like I have said earlier, people can make up their own minds, the whole nation are not thick, and to brutally honest here, most voters did not cast their vote on BREXIT because of what the politicians were canvasing.

No.

Most people voted because they were fed up of the EU and fed up with immigration, that was the brass balls of it all. Not whether we can have a deal with the EU, or backstops. People in the UK were fed up with Brussels not listening to the UK public. I know this seems harsh, but that is the truth of it.

I voted to remain, I was gutted over the outcome, but I have now made my piece with it, and I would now like to try and embrace it, and make the best of it, now, and going forwards, no matter what hurdles we may encounter.

Just a question. What exactly did Brussels not listen to the uk on?

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Just a question. What exactly did Brussels not listen to the uk on?

Things like fishing quotas and immigration for a start. But I do not want to get into a tit for tat about it on here, thanks.

The bottom line is, a hell of a lot of people are just fed up with the EU, that's why the UK voted to leave.

BamBam wrote:The problem is that many on the leave side have never succeeded at anything in their lives before, suddenly they're on the winning side in something that they didn't have the foggiest clue about, and are unwilling to see past the most clear evidence that they voted for unicorns

They treat it as a football match "We won, get over it", because it's the only other time they've had any affiliation to success

I'm obviously a remainer, but I'm resigned to the thickest of all of us causing the UK's decline. I'll just move abroad, it's not a big deal for me because my skills are in demand, but I'll be sad for my country

I also know a lot of successful people who have voted leave as well. Just because you did not get your way on this, there is no need to have a tantrum. People like you are part of the problem in my opinion. I did not get my way, so I'm off !!!!!

Ask all the fishermen and women in the UK if they have voted for unicorns, you will be ran out of town.

Why can't you accept the vote ? If you have these skills that are in demand, you will be most needed in the months to come. Knuckle down, and be part of the solution. Calling people thick for voting on something they feel strongly about smacks of arrogance, seriously, you need to make your piece with this, you will find that life is much better when you take other peoples point of view on board.

Why do you stereo type everyone with a different view on life to you ?

The only problem with immigration is how our government have implement the rules.

Fishing is more complex but its such a tiny part of our economy and one that has evolved out of all recognition from what it once was a 100 years ago. Most of the produce from fishing is exported to the continent because we don't like eating stuff like spider crabs, so leaving will screw that industry over.

That post is exactly why I think people voted for unicorns

Fishing is around 1% of the UK economy, and there are something like 15k fishermen in the UK. Is that worth risking massive chunks of the other 99% over? Nissan in Sunderland employed around 30k people

No, it's not my responsibility to stay around and help clear up a mess caused by the idiots. I can earn more and be taxed less in many other countries

You nailed it anyway. For quite a few leave voters it was about seeing too many brown faces on the street, like mine. What they don't realise is that those aren't going anywhere because they're nothing to do with the EU! My uncle was told "he'll be thrown the Frak out when we leave" after an argument on the roads, that's just one example before you ask

If fishing and immigration are the two big reasons you can give for voting leave, I can't believe you have to ask why anyone voted for unicorns

Fishing is 0.1% of the UK economy, apparently

Brexit is an absolute clusterfeck of a shambles.

The fishing argument (mainly frm Scotland) is utterly hillarious.

Angry Scottish Fisherman - "I want brexit so I can choose how many fish I catch and to hell with susitianability"

EU - "Ah ok, off you go an catch double the amount of fish"

Angry Scottish Fisherman - "I bloody well will. Now, how many mackerel do you want next year? I gave you 10 tonne this year, I can catch 20 tonne next year. So 20 tonne yeah?"

EU - "None fo rme thanks. I'm buying my 10 tonne from the Spanish fisherman coz his fish is cheaper as it doenst have tairffs on it"

Angry Scottish Fisherman -"Screw you EU. I'm going to sell my 20 tonne to Tesco. Oi Tesco, how much you gonna give me for this mackerel?"

Tesco - "None pal. No one in the UK eats the stuff"


Angry Scottish Fisherman -"Ohhhhhhh dear"

Nicely put Tiger.

Then finished off with there being a oversupply of Mackerel to the market, driving prices down to less than half price with the fisherman essentially having to absorb the tariff's in the form of reduced prices

LordDowlais wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Just a question. What exactly did Brussels not listen to the uk on?

Things like fishing quotas and immigration for a start. But I do not want to get into a tit for tat about it on here, thanks.

The bottom line is, a hell of a lot of people are just fed up with the EU, that's why the UK voted to leave.

I wasn’t interested in a tit for tat argument. People voted leave for a myriad of reasons as has become clear. If the things you mention are important then so be it. I just personally think they are misguided as per the example given by tigertattie.

Love a tit for tat argument.

It’s ok for the rest of you lot in the uk. Brexit either gets called off or it goes ahead. It could be a disaster for the UK or it could be a success. It could even be an utter meh outcome that is neither up nor down and we send five years trying to figure out what all the fuss was about.

Meanwhile in Scotland, all this messing about has led to another Scottish independence ref and if that goes through, heaven help us trying to figure out how to implement that clustefeck

BamBam wrote:That post is exactly why I think people voted for unicorns

Fishing is around 1% of the UK economy, and there are something like 15k fishermen in the UK. Is that worth risking massive chunks of the other 99% over? Nissan in Sunderland employed around 30k people

No, it's not my responsibility to stay around and help clear up a mess caused by the idiots. I can earn more and be taxed less in many other countries

You nailed it anyway. For quite a few leave voters it was about seeing too many brown faces on the street, like mine. What they don't realise is that those aren't going anywhere because they're nothing to do with the EU! My uncle was told "he'll be thrown the Frak out when we leave" after an argument on the roads, that's just one example before you ask

If fishing and immigration are the two big reasons you can give for voting leave, I can't believe you have to ask why anyone voted for unicorns

Sorry, I am only now reading this. I have to say this is bad form, very bad form.

Nobody I know even cares about the colour of a persons skin. You seriously need to take that chip off your shoulder.

What I am about to say is the truth, honestly and sincerely. My oldest, and best mate, he was my best man at my wedding twenty years ago, he is like a brother to me, his father grew up being mates with my father. Guess where his family are originally from ? Bangladesh.

My mates grandfather and his family came to the UK after the second world war and married a Welsh woman, and they have been here ever since, my mate/brother voted leave, he has dark skin, in fact he is darker than his father, but this does not fit into your remit, does it ? He is British, and he is fed up with the EU, and we do debate into the night after a few pints.

Also, I just used the fishing industry as an example, there a loads of other industries that have quotas forced on them by the EU, people need to stop looking at this from their own point of view, and take everybody else's points into consideration as well, as much as we all don't like it, BREXIT is happening, and it's about time we all came to terms with it.

Ita not law that it has to happen therefore it can be stopped. Democracy doesnt just stop thankfully.

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:That post is exactly why I think people voted for unicorns

Fishing is around 1% of the UK economy, and there are something like 15k fishermen in the UK. Is that worth risking massive chunks of the other 99% over? Nissan in Sunderland employed around 30k people

No, it's not my responsibility to stay around and help clear up a mess caused by the idiots. I can earn more and be taxed less in many other countries

You nailed it anyway. For quite a few leave voters it was about seeing too many brown faces on the street, like mine. What they don't realise is that those aren't going anywhere because they're nothing to do with the EU! My uncle was told "he'll be thrown the Frak out when we leave" after an argument on the roads, that's just one example before you ask

If fishing and immigration are the two big reasons you can give for voting leave, I can't believe you have to ask why anyone voted for unicorns

Sorry, I am only now reading this. I have to say this is bad form, very bad form.

Nobody I know even cares about the colour of a persons skin. You seriously need to take that chip off your shoulder.

What I am about to say is the truth, honestly and sincerely. My oldest, and best mate, he was my best man at my wedding twenty years ago, he is like a brother to me, his father grew up being mates with my father. Guess where his family are originally from ? Bangladesh.

My mates grandfather and his family came to the UK after the second world war and married a Welsh woman, and they have been here ever since, my mate/brother voted leave, he has dark skin, in fact he is darker than his father, but this does not fit into your remit, does it ? He is British, and he is fed up with the EU, and we do debate into the night after a few pints.

Also, I just used the fishing industry as an example, there a loads of other industries that have quotas forced on them by the EU, people need to stop looking at this from their own point of view, and take everybody else's points into consideration as well, as much as we all don't like it, BREXIT is happening, and it's about time we all came to terms with it.

If you seriously think there aren't massive numbers of people that voted because they don't like immigrants then you're seriously deluded. Not all leave voters are racist but all the racist voters were on the leave side, even you can probably agree to that

As for your best mate, there's a large amount of 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants from the Indian subcontinent (my family are also from that area), who are quite happy to pull the drawbridge up behind them so to speak. The "I'm alright Jack" attitude. They are the worst of us all, the Priti Patels of this world who are absolute poisonous individuals regardless of the colour of their skin

Maybe you should remind your mate that had his father / grandfather not strived for better and made their way here, he would have been diving for fish for $1 a day in Bangladesh. Before moaning about the EU offering others opportunities, he should look in the mirror

I'm happy to hear of any non fishing examples you have, if there are any that aren't just bluster. As for "Bad form" and "chip on the shoulder" I don't think someone with your background should be lecturing someone with mine about whether or not it is appropriate to comment on race in this country

There's a good lad

Not all leave voters are racist but all the racist voters were on the leave side, even you can probably agree to that

Not sure I can agree though. The vast majority of white racists will have been on the leave side, but there are other racists out there.

My mixed race daughters have both faced racial abuse, one for being too white and one for being too brown. I do not believe all the perpetrators (especially those who are Momentum card holders are Leavers).

If he did not have dementia their maternal Grandpa would be voting Tory at this election to try and prevent further immigration from Bangladesh (and Eastern Europe but not relevant to this point) as it would mean too many Sylhetis coming in. As a Bengali he looks at them as an underclass.

Is there a moral obligation to 'like' immigrants?  And if so, on what grounds must they be 'liked'?

If it's fair game to hate your British neighbour because he's caused you so much distress for at least three years because he's an unapologetic Leave voter who'll vote Leave again in a jiffy if he's forced to vote again, then why should it be required of any citizen to 'like' an immigrant?

LT don't get me started on the caste system. I'm apparently of the highest caste but it is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard

Fly, no one says anyone has to like the immigrants, just don't pretend that people don't like them, and doesn't vote in a way that reflects that. Deluded people like Dowlais like to pretend it doesn't exist, rather than calling it out for what it is

I'll do that until the end of my days, no matter how much someone blusters on about bad form and chips on shoulder

Fly,

Not liking people is one thing. Envy is understandable, but throwing a bag at faeces at a 16yo girl and calling her a F***ing P@ki before driving off is beyond dislike or envy. It is pathetic and sadly symptomatic of too much of society.

BamBam wrote:The problem is that many on the leave side have never succeeded at anything in their lives before, suddenly they're on the winning side in something that they didn't have the foggiest clue about, and are unwilling to see past the most clear evidence that they voted for unicorns

They treat it as a football match "We won, get over it", because it's the only other time they've had any affiliation to success

I'm obviously a remainer, but I'm resigned to the thickest of all of us causing the UK's decline. I'll just move abroad, it's not a big deal for me because my skills are in demand, but I'll be sad for my country

did you reread this before you posted it?

do you think that as people get older they get thicker?

you are a young man. you have strong opinions. do you think you will be dumber at 50 than you are at 30? or maybe just maybe do you think you might have learned a few more things?