EU exit - So folks what are you all thinking?

First topic message reminder :

Just curious to know what you all think and what way you will be voting.

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).
Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs
What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?
How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

Yar, the sneaky yanks are trying to get their putrid meat through the back door. (Ooo Matron)

We're ok until the transition period ends (we're still tied into EU regs now)

Horrible shame that come next year we can be getting meat from anywhere in the world where animal welfare, and the debate on meat being fit for human consumption, isn’t above the profit margin in terms of importance.

But hey, at least we'll be able to use a blue passport!

come on

UK has clearly said agriculture is one of those areas where we will tailor tariffs and quotas to suit UK production, and UK non-production, after we leave the transition period.

so scotch beef will be fine and wont be undercut by the US, and we will drop quotas and tariffs to zero on things we cant grow, but which the EU does and so has massive external tariffs with the ROW that we were a part of.

anyway, proclaiming the end of the world doesn't wash with the reality which is much more shaded.

The world certainly won't end post brexit, it just won't be as pleasant for the many of the UK -

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/03/fears-about-us-food-standards-hysterical-says-boris-johnson

Whats Boris says, and what Boris does, are two totally different things.

At least with Trump, as much of a bam as he is, he's at least honest about mot things (he just says what he wants and doesnt care what folk think)

tigertattie wrote:Whats Boris says, and what Boris does, are two totally different things.

At least with Trump, as much of a bam as he is, he's at least honest about mot things (he just says what he wants and doesnt care what folk think)

Agree, actually I'd go further with Boris in that when he says he won't do something it is a good sign he will do it.

Trump for all his faults,  I think at least has some principals and genuinely wants America to succeed even if he is a narcissist.

Boris by contrast is just the affable front of the the far right, a puppet for Dominic Cummings. He has no morals and is completely driven by self interest.

I haven't been reading this thread so don't know if its been answered but by my reckoning the new immigration rules mean that for both the european cup and the pro 14 players will need visas to come from outside the UK to the UK

Any comments?

TJ wrote:I haven't been reading this thread so don't know if its been answered but by my reckoning the new immigration rules mean that for both the european cup and the pro 14 players will need visas to come from outside the UK to the UK

Any comments?

The common thinking is that only players playing for UK clubs will need visas and any UK players wanting to play thier rugby in France for example will also need one.

If you are an Edinburgh player and you have to travel to Bordaux for a game, you will not need a visa.

The rules for non-european players coming into the UK will remain unchanged.

It will then depend on if a rugby player is classed as a skilled or non skilled worker by the UK government as to how many points they get to come over. Most pro players will A) have a job (be signed by a club) B)Be getting paid over the minimum threshold. This should mean pro players will be unaffected by all the carry on.

Why will an italian player not need a visa? Musicians for example coming to the UK for a tour will. The italian player coming to the UK for a pro 14 match is a worker coming here to work

Whats the situation with SA players?

TJ wrote:Why will an italian player not need a visa?  Musicians for example coming to the UK for a tour will.  The italian player coming to the UK for a pro 14 match is a worker coming here to work

Whats the situation with SA players?

It come down to the detail TJ.

A zebre player for example coming to Edinburgh for a pro 14 game is paid his salary by Zebre and all taxes etc will be paid to the italian government.

if a musician comes into the UK to do work, they will be paid by a UK company or insititution to come over to work and therefore taxes etc will be due to the UK goverment.

It comes down to who is paying the wages.

Cheers for that. Makes sense. I still forsee difficulties however

What happens during the AIs? Do the SH teams/players/coaches/staff have to get visas, etc to come here? I guess we need to look to that as an example.

no-one will need working visas to come on rugby tours/trips to the UK.

the specific tourist visa or short term visa will vary by country but its really hard to imagine the UK is going to make it difficult to travel from France to the UK...

A lot of people voted for Brexit for the very reason to make it difficult to get to the UK ie the racists.

No 7&1/2 wrote:A lot of people voted for  Brexit for the very reason to make it difficult to get to the UK ie the racists.

Ahh that old argument.

Well its true that that what alot of people wanted. Are you denying that or saying the argument of less people coming is a pipe dream for them unless our economy sinks.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well its true that that what alot of people wanted. Are you denying that or saying the argument of less people coming is a pipe dream for them unless our economy sinks.

Wanting tighter immigration doesn't make you racist.

Oh right. Well the people I know who say they want it are. Goes back to not all people who voted for Brexit are racist but all racists voted for brexit.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh right. Well the people I know who say they want it are. Goes back to not all people who voted for Brexit are racist but all racists voted for brexit.

Not really at all true is it, I know numerous anti-Semites who backed remain.

Right... all the Brexit supporters you know are racist, of course they ALL are.

It's true soul. And that's going to be the difficulty going forward as too many arent really happy to admit that's what they want from brexit. So on one hand you have people talking about unicorn trade deals and saying that migration will remain at similar levels but a higher skill level while the others just want to stop hearing polish at sainsburys. Brexit means brexit. I find it hard to believe that rugby will be unaffected from any tightening after all our own home secretary's parents wouldn't get in under her proposed rules.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's true soul. And that's going to be the difficulty going forward as too many arent really happy to admit that's what they want from brexit. So on one hand you have people talking about unicorn trade deals and saying that migration will remain at similar levels but a higher skill level while the others just want to stop hearing polish at sainsburys. Brexit means brexit. I find it hard to believe that rugby will be unaffected from any tightening after all our own home secretary's parents wouldn't get in under her proposed rules.

I definitely believe you. Again you're confusing wanting tighter immigration with racism, the two are no the same.

Vast majority of tighter immigration guys are awful human beings. Think we've got to acknowledge that if we want to deliver what brexit was meant to be. Granted no one can yet tell us what brexit is but there we go. To bring this back to rugby I don't see how rugby can be unaffected: can you?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Vast majority of tighter immigration guys are awful human beings. Think we've got to acknowledge that if we want to deliver what brexit was meant to be. Granted no one can yet tell us what brexit is but there we go. To bring this back to rugby I don't see how rugby can be unaffected: can you?

Can you back up that argument?

Ita just opinion but if we are to see less immigration itll need to be across the board so rugby Visa s for working here full time will be harder to get and thus fewer people moving here. If it's easier to move to an irish province or france then the pull factor is greater.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ita just opinion but if we are to see less immigration itll need to be across the board so rugby Visa s for working here full time will be harder to get and thus fewer people moving here. If it's easier to move to an irish province or france then the pull factor is greater.

An opinion you can't back up in any way?

Well if we make it harder to move here so that it wouldn't be possible for the home secretary's parents to get here I dont think it's such a leap as to say other countries will be a more welcoming place for foreign based players to settle.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well if we make it harder to move here so that it wouldn't be possible for the home secretary's parents to get here I dont think it's such a leap as to say other countries will be a more welcoming place for foreign based players to settle.

Stop diverting from the original argument and answer the question.

Which EU nationals move to Ireland for rugby though? There's not many European players at Irish provinces that I can think of (French, Italian, Georgian......anyone else play to a high level?). SH players, perhaps. But then they're non-EU so would face the same visa issues. But it hasn't stopped them going to Ireland. I'm as pro-remain as they come but I don't think Brexit will affect sport too much. A bit. But not massively.

The Oracle wrote:Which EU nationals move to Ireland for rugby though?  There's not many European players at Irish provinces that I can think of (French, Italian, Georgian......anyone else play to a high level?).  SH players, perhaps.  But then they're non-EU so would face the same visa issues.  But it hasn't stopped them going to Ireland.  I'm as pro-remain as they come but I don't think Brexit will affect sport too much.  A bit.  But not massively.

Just to make myself more clear - if being outside the EU will make it so difficult to play in Ireland, France, etc. then why are their main imports from outside the EU?

Which question soul? I was answering the point in the post.

The impact goes beyond eu nationals though Oracle. Any draconian laws brought in now will be to affect everyone not just eu nationals.its merely an extension of what Brexit is.

I want you to quantify your point that the majority of people who want tighter immigration are awful human beings?

I could quite easily say the same of remain voters.

You're able to do so soul if that's what you believe. It's back to my previous point the people I have come across did it for racist reasons and I consider those people awful. Includes my parents. Racist idiots.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're able to do so soul if that's what you believe. It's back to my previous point the people I have come across did it for racist reasons and I consider those people awful. Includes my parents. Racist idiots.

Oh of course, do you always feel the need to resort to hyperbole?

My parents voted for brexit and one of their reasons was the amount of foreign people here.  So you could throw the racism accusation at them.  But I know them very well.  I know they are not racist.  They are part of the old cliche of 'having lots of foreign friends'!  It's easy to see them as racist as Brexit voters but dig a little deeper and you find that what they are worried about is overcrowding and the mass migration of people from poorer countries in the EU to the richer ones; the pressure on services such as the NHS; the worry about whether the government will be able to afford to look after them in their old age; pressure on councils leading to big cuts and austerity.  When I listen to that I perhaps see selfishness and a bit of protectionism.  But not out and out racism.

Well theres the balance isnt there. That is a racist reason to vote for brexit. We as a general term sometimes dont like to think the worst of ones close to us but if ita clear like that just call a spade a spade. Granted it's not a great reason and a lot of people didn't even realise non eu immigration far exceeded that within the eu but there we go. If people want to believe the lies on pressure on the NHS forcing wages down rather than look at evidence it's going to take a while for them to come around. It's starting to happen but unfortunately too late to avoid damage.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well theres the balance isnt there. That is a racist reason to vote for brexit. We as a general term sometimes dont like to think the worst of ones close to us but if ita clear like that just call a spade a spade. Granted it's not a great reason and a lot of people didn't even realise non eu immigration far exceeded that within the eu but there we go. If people want to believe the lies on pressure on the NHS forcing wages down rather than look at evidence it's going to take a while for them to come around. It's starting to happen but unfortunately too late to avoid damage.

Sorry but that isn't racism.

It is an emotive subject soul. As more people are hurt people who voted for Brexit are going to get abuse. Even on this rugby thread you see some people who votes for brexit still dont acknowledge impacts their choices will have instead seeing the you can eat your cake and have it too promises.

It is soul. It goes back beyond brexit back to the old signs in the windows. Different bad people coming over here stealing your jobs but the same dumb arguments.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It is soul. It goes back beyond brexit back to the old signs in the windows. Different bad people coming over here stealing your jobs but the same dumb arguments.

Not it isn't, you don't understand what racism actually is do you? Are you too preoccupied virtue signalling?

When can I get my blue passport?

Pretend all you like soul. That's the brexit alot voted for. Thick reasons yes but that s their beliefs. Too much education funding cut? Possibly. Hard to educate people who have had enough of experts though. I keep coming back to the rugby point though as despite your insistence that's its side stepping it's what this thread is about: what's the worst impact of brexit you can envisage for rugby? Or are you an unicorn guy?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pretend all you like soul. That's the brexit alot voted for. Thick reasons yes but that s their beliefs. Too much education funding cut? Possibly. Hard to educate people who have had enough of experts though. I keep coming back to the rugby point though as despite your insistence that's its side stepping it's what this thread is about: what's the worst impact of brexit you can envisage for rugby? Or are you an unicorn guy?

You're still not explaining the racism there. To be honest you need to move your argument beyond leavers being stupid and remainers being forward thinkers, are you educationally malnourished?

Your inability to debate without using tired clichés is not the sign of intelligence.

It is what it is.

Time to move on and make the best of it. Too many people living in the past wanting Britain to fail.

Its unfortunate soul but once you accept that racism had its large part to play it'll be hard for you to.move on. I keep trying to get this back to impact on rugby but you seem to have a problem with that. Maybe just post your thoughts on brexit in gernal to the off topic section.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Its unfortunate soul but once you accept that racism had its large part to play it'll be hard for you to.move on. I keep trying to get this back to impact on rugby but you seem to have a problem with that. Maybe just post your thoughts on brexit in gernal to the off topic section.

Are you unable to answer the question? Wanting tight immigration control is not racist. Now I realise you're unable to answer but you could at least try.

Which question have I missed. The tight immigration thing is driven by racism to a large degree. What's the worst impact on rugby due to brexit that you see on the horizon? At least try to keep it to topic rather than an argument that brexiters arent to a large degree racists and those who are fed up of experts.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Which question have I missed. The tight immigration thing is driven by racism to a large degree. What's the worst impact on rugby due to brexit that you see on the horizon? At least try to keep it to topic rather than an argument that brexiters arent to a large degree racists and those who are fed up of experts.

Unable to formulate an actual argument then and you accuse others of lacking a proper education.

What argument? There is no argument on racism. That's the reason a large number of people voted the way they did. I'm not sure you were one of those people but the way you're reacting suggests you may have some guilt? IP to you to acknowledge that and deal with it. Secondary to the point. Are you able to say the worst impact of brexit on rugby?

Do I need to break this down even more for you?

There's no doubt that racism played a part but wanting tighter immigration controls is in itself not racist and if you do need to quantify your opinions with some actual numerical evidence. I realise you're unable to think for yourself so keep trying to divert the debate away from that but it simply won't work.

That's the side note on the debate. You accused me of ignoring questions. Looking back the only ones I ignored were the ones attached to insults and I'm not going to answer these for the obvious reason. Have you a point back on rugby soul, as that's the point of this thread. It's not a diversion to talk to the actual point. I've answered your question care to answer mine?

Still not answered the question then, this thread is a general discussion about Brexit it is not specific to rugby