Olympics

First topic message reminder :

6-14 August
Perhaps in need of own thread.
Discuss build up and matches here.

Top of the billing with be Djokovic and Murray, and then Rafa who is currently scheduled to play, and planning to travel to Rio, but still not completely clear that he will play singles.

TRuffin copied this list from aother site and put it on the Toronto thread, I've added Federer, the rest is per July 23 post of Truffin. Edited August 2nd to add Wawrinka.

Out from top 10
#3 - Federer
#4 - Wawrinka
#7 - Raonic
#8 - Berdych
#9 - Thiem

Out from 11 - 20
#14 - Gasquet (also out of RC with injury)
#16 - Isner
#18 - Kyrgios
#19 - Tomic

Out from 21 - 30
#21 - F Lopez
#22 - Pouille
#29 - Querrey

Out from 31 - 40
#33 - Anderson
#35 - Karlovic
#37 - Dolgopolov
#38 - Chardy

I haven't heard about withdrawals on the women's side of the singles, but a lot of big names seem to be in.

Another thing is maybe Djokovic doesn't particularly value the achievement of winning all 9 masters. He is not going to get many more chances at Cincinatti. He has made so many finals there and lost to Roger, that this could have been his year, with Roger out.

With Federer and Djokovic already gone, Cincinatti will be nervously waiting to see if Murray, Nadal and others will pull out after playing various matches at the Olympics.

Murray road to gold glory looks similar to what he would face in say an ATP 500 tournament : Next round he might face Paire then Johnson then Nishikori and then potentially Del Potro or Nadal in the final.
A few surprises in the double tournament with early exists of Murray bros , Djokovic and Mahut/Herbert.

Solid win for Rafa. Looks like a comfortable win for Goffin as well.

In the ladies, what happened to Muguruza - losing 16 16 to Puig? Konta and Kuznetsova in a tight third set.

Serena getting ploughed by some Ukrainian lady (Svitolina) 4-6, 1-2 down at the moment.

And she's out 6-4 6-3 to the 21 year old Ukrainian.

Yeah looked injured. Sad for Serena. Looked close to tears at the end.

hard to keep up with everything that's going on really!

Good win for Konta against Kuznetsova, confirming that her ranking in the top 15 is on merit and not just the result of a one-off freak performance.

Agree that Murray has to be a very strong favourite in the men's singles after Djokovic's defeat. Then again, with the way GB medal prospects have performed so far, he'll probably contrive to have a soft defeat next up...

Serena has seemed hyper-emotional all tournament...trashed a racquet in the last match against journey-player Cornet...she basically beat herself last night.

We've seen it a lot in the past 18 months too...it gets harder and harder to contain and control the emotions and nerves the older you get. She's starting to wilt under self-pressure these days.

I suspect we arent going to see many more slams out of her...I dont think shes going to surpass M.Court.

Speaking of age and facing up to stiff competition...just WOW re: Phelps last night. Oldest swimmer to ever win an individual gold now to add to all his other stellar achievements. His 5th olympics...and only outside the medals apparently by 0.5 sec for his treasured 200m 'fly when he was 15 in Sydney. It is the stuff of legend...went unbeaten for 11 years in that event...11 years!...until he badly timed his finish (having been ahead right to the end) in London 2012 and lost to Le Clos by 0.05s...a situation which curiously led to yesterday where he stared down, went into the zone and beat Le Clos who had been goading him the past 4 years. Can only imagine sweet victory tasted after that...Phelps 1st...Le Clos 4th.

We talk of GOAT on here...he is undoubtedly the swimming GOAT and is asking the question re: greatest athlete of all time by the time Rio is finished.

Sorry, its non tennis but had to mention it if you're a sports & achievements lover.

In fairness, Cornet may be a journeyman player but she'd beaten Serena the last three times they had played. Understandable that Serena was taking that match quite seriously!

I only saw the very end of last night's match. She was rolling serves in with no pace at all, so I'm presuming there must have been some physical issue?

I think it's 50-50 whether she catches Court. I think she is declining (understandable at 34!) but I'd still make her favourite for the US. If she does win that, one more slam next year has to be plausible.

lydian wrote:Speaking of age and facing up to stiff competition...just WOW re: Phelps last night. Oldest swimmer to ever win an individual gold now to add to all his other stellar achievements. His 5th olympics...and only outside the medals apparently by 0.5 sec for his treasured 200m 'fly when he was 15 in Sydney. It is the stuff of legend...went unbeaten for 11 years in that event...11 years!...until he badly timed his finish (having been ahead right to the end) in London 2012 and lost to Le Clos by 0.05s...a situation which curiously led to yesterday where he stared down, went into the zone and beat Le Clos who had been goading him the past 4 years. Can only imagine sweet victory tasted after that...Phelps 1st...Le Clos 4th.

We talk of GOAT on here...he is undoubtedly the swimming GOAT and is asking the question re: greatest athlete of all time by the time Rio is finished.

Sorry, its non tennis but had to mention it if you're a sports & achievements lover.

It was a fascinating race. Also watched Ledecki vs Sjostrom - http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/36686457 . Absolutely wonderful swimming.

This one too - http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/36686888 at age ~43. Just wow!

Djoko is out of Cincy, interestingly due to a wrist injury

I wonder if it's fairly persistent? Remember, Murray has had trouble in the past, bad enough to affect him for a few months

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/37038154

Yes perhaps re: injury but she seems a bag of nerves at the moment. Cornet is one of those buzzy type players she can have problems with...very consistent...and if Serena isnt then she has problems. She was a shoe-in for the US Open last year then folded like a bad hand against Vinci...we'll just have to see.

I heard Novak has a bad wrist, hence why out of Cincy...seems to be either.

Yes wow LF...ridiculous that a 43 yo can win a gruelling event like that...does that show cycling, like rowing, isnt so much about skill but who is the fittest? Physical skill (not tactics) and quickness usually drops with age. I'm not sure about it...but a great achievement by Armstrong (no relation to Lance I presume!).

Loving the swimming...makes me feel exhausted just watched it though!

Yeah 31 at swimming that's like about 36 at other sports, and still winning.

Phelps is definitely in the debate for greatest sportsman. I would have him well ahead of Bolt or other Olympians, but difficult to compare to the likes of Don Bradman and Muhammed Ali.

I am suspicious of any events that are predominantly physical these days however. Not suspicious of Phelps in particular, but any physical strength or endurance event, whether athletics, swimming, weight lifting, cycling, is hard to know what you are really watching.

So a wrist injury for Novak. That explains a lot. Sort of strange to lose to Del Potro and then complain of a wrist injury though! I'm sure DelPo would happily swop the last few years with Novak.

Things are looking a little bit up for Rafa. Delbonis 2+1, Seppi 3+3, looking favourite for the semi final, and with Djokovic and Federer out, even a contender for the title.

An out-of-sorts Andy Murray today who had been in trouble a break down in the final set but dug himself out of the hole he had dug to beat Fabio Fognini and keep his hopes alive of retaining his Olympic title. Must do better.

Nadal with another confidence boosting win to progress.

Classic Andy. Cruising at a set and a break up. Falls asleep and loses no less than 8 games in a row. Wakes up and wins last 6 games to cruise through. Always entertaining!

So quarters are:

Del Potro v RBA
Nadal v Bellucci
Nishikori v Cilic/Monfils
Murray v Johnson

Should be an amazing atmosphere for the Bellucci match!

Interesting that Murray/Watson managed to get in as alternates in the mixed. Easy first round win over Ferrer/Suarez-N. They will be tough to beat.

Nadal/Muguruza withdraw. Presumably as Rafa has already made the men's doubles final and is still in the singles?

Exactly...he's loving this Olympics for sure:

http://www.foxsports.com/olympics/story/rafael-nadal-loves-the-olympics-more-than-anybody-081116.html

To be fair they make s great doubles team and Nadal is no slouch at this discipline.

Quote from the above:

Andy Murray and his own health remain Nadal's biggest challenges

Murray wins in final set tiebreak. I felt that was probably the biggest set of Johnson's career, whereas for Murray it was probably about the 100th or 200th biggest. And I think that showed a little bit; Johnson hit some good shots, but when it came to the real crunch, like serving 30-15 4-3 when he dumped a forehand into the net from a winnable position, or the drop shot at 2-4 in the TB, he didn't quite have enough.

Deja vu match for Murray today. Strolled through the first set, dipped in the second and lost it then dug a hole in the third set for himself but dug himself out to beat Johnson in a third set tiebreak. Almost a carbon copy of the Fognini match yesterday.

He has to be more consistent in his semi V Monfils or Nishikori or he will not win.

Poor Olympics for Jamie Murray. Still, I don't feel too sorry for him as he's had a great career regardless.

For something other than tennis, check our Simone Biles floor routine the other day. Even if you don't like gymnastics, she is a star.

Nadal locked in a tight battle with Bellucci at present. On serve in the final set. Should Rafa win a tasty line-up in the semis are on the cards. It could be:-

Nadal V Del Potro
Murray V Nishikori

Better than some slam semi line-ups of late dare I say.

Doubles result

Medalists

Gold medal Marc López
Rafael Nadal Spain

Silver medal Florin Mergea
Horia Tecău Romania

Bronze medal Steve Johnson
Jack Sock United States

Which other sports are people watching? I like table tennis, volleyball, a bit of cycling, swimming.

Murray and Heather Watson lost 6-4 6-4 in the mixed doubles quarter-finals to India's Sania Mirza and Rohan Bopanna.

Quarter final is a tough loss. 75% chance of a medal if you win it.

And the Spaniards were a break down at 4-3 in the 3rd - winning the next 3 games to take gold.

Absolutely no idea how Nadal will have any energy left for the semi vs Del Potro later today! Played approx 5 hours today and a lot of emotion spent in that doubles final and celebration too.

Flashes of the old Rafa in his quarter-final singles win, but he's probably far from fully fit. It will be interesting to see if he plays at the USO given he's already said his wrist is not 100%.
With Djoko also suffering wrist probs (and rumours circulating of other difficulties with him), Murray appears to be the last man standing among the Big Four.

What rumours are they sfp? You have whetted my appetite.

Also the Olympics seem to mean a heck of a lot to Nishikori as he got quite emotional on sealing his win.

Ok some more comment on the OG Doubles. And it may not be wholly what you expect.

It was an outstanding and enthralling doubles final. But I have to say it was Rafa's fighting spirit that got them over the line despite being visibly exhausted.

For 2 sets out of 3, after first set, he was playing not 2 but 3 opponents, one of them being Marc who was so overwhelmed after wrapping up the first set in 34 mins with incredible play from both, that he kept tanking each advantage Rafa earned on the deuce court side for the team. He was starting to choke quite badly from the end of set 2 onwards. Yes 13 UFEs were nothing, however they came at crucial junctures. The Romanian Team shifted their tactic of playing at Rafa, who they thought would be more tired in set 1, to only returning and hitting to Marc for the remainder of the match.

Rafa had to find ways to cut in and hit a BHCC or FHDTL winner, pass or volley, to give the team advantage on the ad side...only for Marc to dump all the shots out, return short moonballs, or loft easy put away lobs. Out of the 16 BPs Rafa predominantly created, Marc lost 13 of them with choke shots. That's how tough the match was for Marc after set 1 when his own weight of realisation started to drain him of being able to play free flowing tennis. This is when you realise what separates the great players from the good. Marc is a great team mate and friend to Rafa but he was wilting horribly.

Rafa was visibly spent but refused to give up and kept nudging and encouraging Marc, giving him positive vibes. It was enthralling viewing because of the contrasts of teams and styles of play on show. This may seem critical of Marc but he needed Rafa to keep him/them in the match and Rafa had to call on all his competitive instincts and ability. It was Nadal's unrelenting will, despite cramping and having to carry a team mate who was drowning in self doubt, that saw them through.

The Romanian's are accomplished top 10 doubles specialists who saw their chance...playing relentlessly on Marc in the 3rd. Marc lost his serve in the third...putting Romanians 4-3 up and you felt that was it...I feared that the chance was slipping away because Marc was basically choking the match away. But Nadal refused to give up coming straight back at them next game, patting Marc on the back and shoulder between every point.

They broke back, Rafa held for 5-4 and then the Romanians again targeted Marc relentlessly...his nerve was almost broke completely hoisting up lob after lob. Although to be fair he made a cracking return in their service game...a rarity in the final set and a bit. Ironically, it was the Romanians who faltered critically when Mergea hit a very short & easy Lopez well beyond the baseline to give the Spaniards an astonished victory from the hopeless situation they seemed to be in 15 minutes earlier.

Nadal collapsed exhausted to the ground...hardly with enough energy to celebrate. That match took so much out of him to carry his team and keep fighting til the end. He not only fulfilled his objective of Olympic gold but showed his vintage tenacity was back, he found that extra gear when needed despite the cramping. Which augurs well for the future now. But boy did he have to work hard for this...and to be fair of course Marc played his part but only really decisively in Set 1.

Amazing match, amazing result...but he'll have nothing left for the Del Potro match.

sirfredperry wrote: ... With Djoko also suffering wrist probs (and rumours circulating of other difficulties with him) ...

CaledonianCraig wrote:What rumours are they sfp? ...

Rumour number 1) Djokovic has been unnerved by hearing of the 850 rule.
Rumour number 2) He has seen the writing on the wall, after his kid got hold of some crayons.

10th Aug Telegraph article:

Telegraph wrote:Novak Djokovic has withdrawn from next week’s Masters event in Cincinnati because of a “recurring left wrist injury”. ... Rumours have done the rounds about off-court distractions but it now appears that physical stresses and strains could also be a factor in his recent vulnerability. ... there are the doubts surrounding that word “recurring”. (The description of Djokovic’s injury was put out by the Cincinnati event itself.) Chronic wrist problems are increasingly prevalent on the professional tours, as players ramp up both the weight of their groundstrokes and the intensity of their schedules. And they can be seriously career-limiting if they get out of control. ... In Djokovic’s case, however, these may only be minor pangs of discomfort. It is also clearly preferable to have the issue in the left wrist, as this only contributes to his double-fisted backhand and not to the serve and forehand that make up the greater part of any tennis match. ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2016/08/10/novak-djokovic-pulls-out-of-cincinnati-masters-with-recurring-le/

I haven't been able to find out anything else. But others such as Lydian etc who have watched him play said something that he hasn't seemed to be quite himself since the start of the clay season (even though he won the French Open 2016). His Wimbledon loss was a little unusual and he seems to be taking quite a bit of time off here and there.

When I saw Novak Djokovic crying after his loss to Del Potro, it changed my attitude a little bit towards having big professional sports (tennis, golf ...) included in the Olympics.

Lets say you are a Djokovic - the pinnacle of your sport are the grand slams.  You are heading towards making a billion dollars out of prize money and sponsorship.  So why allow him and others into the Olympics.

But then I saw Djokovic crying.  Wow it must mean a lot to him, these Olympics.  He is supposed to be one of the greatest sportsmen on the planet.  But his sporting achievements have mainly been all about him.  He has done it for himself.  But as a great sportsman, maybe he wants to give something back to his country, maybe he wants to do something for his country and the people of his country.  Okay there is the Davis Cup, but that is not the Olympics - and the Olympics is where the sporting greats from around the globe and across sports congregate every four years ... and isn't Djokovic one of these sporting greats?  

All the worlds media will congregate to the event, and all national tv channels will report on it, and all the nations peoples will be drawn towards it - and they will all be looking at their medal tables to see how well their country does compared to other countries. It transcends sport. People usually with no interest in sport will often also be watching. With such coverage it may be difficult to ignore. "Hay look one of our own, representing us, is on the television. He / she is trying to beat those other competitors from those big countries ..., let's see how they do ..."

And look at the transformative effect success can have on ordinary people and nations - look at Fiji rugby sevens winning the gold medal, Fiji's first Olympic medal of any sort.  A national holiday has been declared in its wake.

Then I thought of Djokovic crying.  He was crying not because he had lost, not because it was a black mark against his cv, he was crying for Serbia - he wanted to put them on the medal table, move them up the medal table, he wanted to put some sunshine into the hearts of his fellow country folk.  He wasn't able to do that.

Don't take a taxi in Rio de Janeiro, fingers crossed for a positive outcome:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/37069834

Murray screaming lets go when Nishi hits an unforced error. Rather embarrassing when Murray's one of the biggest mental midgets in the modern game.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Nadal locked in a tight battle with Bellucci at present. On serve in the final set. Should Rafa win a tasty line-up in the semis are on the cards. It could be:-

Nadal V Del Potro
Murray V Nishikori

Better than some slam semi line-ups of late dare I say.

Nah! Remember this is a 250 event at best

Nore Staat wrote:When I saw Novak Djokovic crying after his loss to Del Potro, it changed my attitude a little bit towards having big professional sports (tennis, golf ...) included in the Olympics.

Lets say you are a Djokovic - the pinnacle of your sport are the grand slams.  You are heading towards making a billion dollars out of prize money and sponsorship.  So why allow him and others into the Olympics.

But then I saw Djokovic crying.  Wow it must mean a lot to him, these Olympics.  He is supposed to be one of the greatest sportsmen on the planet.  But his sporting achievements have mainly been all about him.  He has done it for himself.  But as a great sportsman, maybe he wants to give something back to his country, maybe he wants to do something for his country and the people of his country.  Okay there is the Davis Cup, but that is not the Olympics - and the Olympics is where the sporting greats from around the globe and across sports congregate every four years ... and isn't Djokovic one of these sporting greats?  

All the worlds media will congregate to the event, and all national tv channels will report on it, and all the nations peoples will be drawn towards it - and they will all be looking at their medal tables to see how well their country does compared to other countries.  It transcends sport.  People usually with no interest in sport will often also be watching.  With such coverage it may be difficult to ignore.  "Hay look one of our own, representing us, is on the television.  He / she is trying to beat those other competitors from those big countries ..., let's see how they do ..."

And look at the transformative effect success can have on ordinary people and nations - look at Fiji rugby sevens winning the gold medal, Fiji's first Olympic medal of any sort.  A national holiday has been declared in its wake.

Then I thought of Djokovic crying.  He was crying not because he had lost, not because it was a black mark against his cv, he was crying for Serbia - he wanted to put them on the medal table, move them up the medal table, he wanted to put some sunshine into the hearts of his fellow country folk.  He wasn't able to do that.

At last one of the few scribes on here who understand that this event is totally separate from the Slams. From a status point of view, this means everything to players at the top of their sport. That is those sports people who are not self absorbed - hence it's interesting that often the great enthusiasts are those that have children, i.e. something to make them proud as opposed to just earning more money

Justin Rose, is currently top of the leader board in golf - as a player who's always been the most enthusiastic and grounded of all the top golfers - I really hope he does it

Andy Murray far more clinical today and beats Keith Nishikori 6-1 6-4 to reach another Olympic Final (his third). He awaits the winner of Nadal V Del Potro semi in the final.

And what a phenomenal rally to take him to match point. Congratulations Andy.

Is it just me or is Nishikori really going backwards? I remember watching him over the past couple of years thinking this guy is really becoming the real deal but to me he is now going backwards. He is a great ball striker and I like his style of the game taking the ball early but he is very erratic.

On a separate note I am finding the tennis in the Olympics so hard to get into, it is so dull. I don't doubt the players want to win it but I just cannot get into it and cannot take it seriously for whatever reason. With slams you can just feel the tension building as it gets towards the QF stage of the slams but in this I just couldn't care less. Even when Novak lost in the 1st round, it was kind of like yeah whatever ! whereas when he lost to Querrey it seemed like a big deal particularly with the potential for the calendar year slam.

I genuinely think even if Djokovic were to have won this, I still wouldn't have cared in the slightest. Like the golf where I would find the majors to be quite exciting at times, the golf this week has been so dull.

I just don't think the tennis and golf belong in it at all.

Going by player reactions/motivations I would safely say the Olympics are bigger than any Masters event. I know I have not seen Novak in tears when exiting ANY Masters or WTF. Likewise I haven't seen Roger in tears after losing any WTF or Masters Final.

It is irrelevant if fans can't get into it as the players clearly do and that is what matters more than anything.

Rafa starting out the first games, in the ad court mainly, serving so far to the side I almost wondered if he got confused with so much doubles. He must think he's playing doubles still. I get the strategy of creating angles, I don't know whether it is a good idea or not, but it is certainly not what I remember from him or anyone else in singles.

I assume he does it more on the ad court since it's much easier for him as a leftie to spin the ball out very wide on that side, and perhaps the variation of possible angle is slightly higher.

Has he been doing this all tournament? Would I be right in thinking that this is further from the centre line that usual for him?

On the subject of Olympics importance to the players, the winner of the women's bronze medal looked pretty happy. I think they said Kvitova, but they just showed one point.

Interesting match this (Del Potro vs Nadal). Put it on. I have a good feeling.

slashermcguirk wrote:Is it just me or is Nishikori really going backwards? I remember watching him over the past couple of years thinking this guy is really becoming the real deal but to me he is now going backwards. He is a great ball striker and I like his style of the game taking the ball early but he is very erratic.

On a separate note I am finding the tennis in the Olympics so hard to get into, it is so dull. I don't doubt the players want to win it but I just cannot get into it and cannot take it seriously for whatever reason. With slams you can just feel the tension building as it gets towards the QF stage of the slams but in this I just couldn't care less. Even when Novak lost in the 1st round, it was kind of like yeah whatever ! whereas when he lost to Querrey it seemed like a big deal particularly with the potential for the calendar year slam.

I genuinely think even if Djokovic were to have won this, I still wouldn't have cared in the slightest. Like the golf where I would find the majors to be quite exciting at times, the golf this week has been so dull.

I just don't think the tennis and golf belong in it at all.

I understand what you mean and you're perfectly entitled to feel this way. However, it is clearly important to a lot of players, public etc. I know people who simply never watch sport, except when it's The Olympics - that means they only watch Murray, Novak, Rafa etc then. No other tennis event has an audience as wide. By definition then, it's a big event. And the Andy / Kei SF match has an atmosphere like a slam SF

Well, it'll definitely be a slam winner that wins the Tennis and you wouldn't bet against the same for the Golf

Nadal takes the first set 7-5.

On the Olympics it is unique for tennis players. The whole thing allows them to be part of the biggest sporting spectacle in the world. It allows them to rub shoulders with other sporting icons such as Phelps, Bolt and lots more. It gives them the chance to represent their country in a singles tournament and is a once in every four years tournament. Like I said earlier the very best players get very emotional at the Olympics - much more so than at any Masters or WTF'S. The Slams will always be the creme de la creme and the tennis tournaments most craved for but the uniqueness and irregularity coupled with the global massive Ness of Olympics fires the Olympics singles title above Masters and WTF.

Del Potro hits back to take the second set and they are all square at one set all. Into the decider we go.