Ireland's bid for 2023 World Cup - venues announced + Gov. underwriting 320m

by Sin é Mon 08 Aug 2016, 9:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

Venues announced and both Govs underwriting cost.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/government-to-underwrite-320m-in-bid-for-2023-rugby-world-cup-414609.html

Croke Park, The Aviva stadium, RDS in Dublin; (3)
Casement Park and Kingspan Stadium in Belfast (2)
Pairc Uí Chaoimh in Cork;

These include Croke Park, the Aviva Stadium and the RDS in Dublin;
Casement Park and Kingspan Stadium in Belfast;
Pairc Uí Chaoimh in Cork;
Thomond Park, Limerick;
Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney;
Pearse Stadium, Galway;
McHale Park in Castlebar;
Nowlan Park, Kilkenny;
and Celtic Park in Derry.

Great to see how evenly spread around the island (Derry & Kilkenny for example).

The operational costs for redeveloping some of these venues and bringing them up to standards and sizes for the tournament is estimated to cost in the region of €60m.

I think we have a good chance.

by marty2086 Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:46 pm

Ravenhill hosted the Wallabies back in '99 and Casement Park if they ever rebuild it will have a capacity of over 30k

by Collapse2005 Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:47 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Dublin is a beautiful city Collapse, and the price of beer is just me nit-picking, it's just a bug bare I have when in the Eurozone.

I would not begrudge a world cup in Ireland, and I would travel to watch Wales there whilst participating in one, saying that, I like Belfast as a city as well, I would not mind if games were played there, are there stadiums big enough to host a tier one country in a world cup pool in Northern Ireland ?

Wales have a good record in Dublin and Wales fans are popular here when they come for the six nations. I assume that teams that play their group games in Dublin may have a group game in Belfast against a smaller side. Japan played Zimbabwe in Belfast in the 1991 RWC. Think that is the only RWC game to have been played there. Cant see any of the bigger games being played in Belfast.

by LordDowlais Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:53 pm

Also, do not quote me on this, as it was so long ago, but I think, when Wales last hosted the World Cup, in 1999, to get votes, Wales allowed the home nations to hold their own pool matches at their home grounds, on the understanding, that if they were ever to host a World Cup, then the favour would be returned.

Now I know France and England have since hosted World Cups and Wales have had their pool games in Cardiff, but Ireland have yet to host one, so does the agreement still stand ?

I would hope it would.

by Collapse2005 Wed 18 Oct 2017, 5:05 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Also, do not quote me on this, as it was so long ago, but I think, when Wales last hosted the World Cup, in 1999, to get votes, Wales allowed the home nations to hold their own pool matches at their home grounds, on the understanding, that if they were ever to host a World Cup, then the favour would be returned.

Now I know France and England have since hosted World Cups and Wales have had their pool games in Cardiff, but Ireland have yet to host one, so does the agreement still stand ?

I would hope it would.

The WRU have already waived the agreement. It went further than that it stated that Ireland would have to give Wales a cut of the revenue if they didnt get games. Thankfully the WRU have waived it.

by geoff999rugby Wed 18 Oct 2017, 5:19 pm

LD two points on beer prices.

1 - One of reasons you will pay so much is the collapse in the pound caused by sterling - blame you countrymen for voting for it
2 - As Collapse says it is all about knowing where to go Wink

Lastly you would have to drink an awful lot of beer to compensate for the hotel prices in Cardiff on match days.
I'm lucky given a mate of mine happens to be fortunate that his mother lives in Cardiff Yahoo

by MichaelT Thu 19 Oct 2017, 8:54 am

geoff999rugby wrote:LD two points on beer prices.

1 - One of reasons you will pay so much is the collapse in the pound caused by sterling - blame you countrymen for voting for it
2 - As Collapse says it is all about knowing where to go

Drinking/ eating out has always been expensive in Ireland compared to UK. Even when it was nearly €1.5 / £1. When you're used to paying £2-£3 for drinks going to Ireland and paying €5-€6 is a big jump. Plus with drink deals (e.g. double spirit extra £1) you really cant compare and is nothing to do with recent exchange rate.

Plus the exchange rate was worse, or at best the same, 5 to 8 years ago than now so it really is irrelevant.

As an English person in Ireland, I would say there is more an emphasis on keeping prices low in the UK than Ireland, but the quality of food in restaurants can be better in Ireland. If you're used to two meals for £8 in Wetherspoons though paying €15 for a burger and chips will put you off. You get what you pay for though, and in general youre paid less in the UK anyway. See dole, state pensions and minimum wage for comparisons.

Stay away from Dublin and you will see your money stretch further - the west coast is far nicer, more scenic and friendlier anyway.

by geoff999rugby Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:10 am

MichaelT wrote: When you're used to paying £2-£3 for drinks .

How many places can you get a pint for less than £3 in GB - very few.
I was in Herefordshire recently, one of the cheapest in England and even there it was around £3.50

Beer in England is, mostly, £3.50 to £4.50

£15 for a burger and chips - where are you going ? - it is half that in Dublin !

by LordDowlais Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:17 am

geoff999rugby wrote:How many places can you get a pint for less than £3 in GB - very few.

In my club, a pint of Stowford Press is £2.52. A pint of Stella or 1664 is £2.75. Those are my two tipples. Granted, as you go into town, the price varies from between £2.50/£3.50 per pint.

by MichaelT Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:18 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
MichaelT wrote: When you're used to paying £2-£3 for drinks .

How many places can you get a pint for less than £3 in GB - very few.
I was in Herefordshire recently, one of the cheapest in England and even there it was around £3.50

Beer in England is, mostly, £3.50 to £4.50

£15 for a burger and chips - where are you going ? - it is half that in Dublin !

Loads of local pubs in north-east England would still charge £2.50 a pint. Working mens clubs under £2. I would say Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria are much the same outside of Liverpool and Manchester. Theres more to the UK than London. And Hertfordshire! 15 miles north of London/ St Albans - one of the cheapest places. Really.

Where is it half that in Dublin? Not the places I've been to. Even early bird specials are €20 in Dublin (Portabello) and its very small portions. You must be eating in McDonalds. Most pubs/ restaurants main courses are €15 - €20 anywhere in Ireland with steaks being €25 to €30.

by Collapse2005 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:22 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
MichaelT wrote: When you're used to paying £2-£3 for drinks .

How many places can you get a pint for less than £3 in GB - very few.
I was in Herefordshire recently, one of the cheapest in England and even there it was around £3.50

Beer in England is, mostly, £3.50 to £4.50

£15 for a burger and chips - where are you going ? - it is half that in Dublin !

Best burger in Dublin is Bunsen and that costs about €7.5 or €9.5 for a double. Its a cracker too.

by Collapse2005 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:25 am

MichaelT wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
MichaelT wrote: When you're used to paying £2-£3 for drinks .

How many places can you get a pint for less than £3 in GB - very few.
I was in Herefordshire recently, one of the cheapest in England and even there it was around £3.50

Beer in England is, mostly, £3.50 to £4.50

£15 for a burger and chips - where are you going ? - it is half that in Dublin !

Loads of local pubs in north-east England would still charge £2.50 a pint. Working mens clubs under £2. I would say Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria are much the same outside of Liverpool and Manchester. Theres more to the UK than London. And Hertfordshire! 15 miles north of London/ St Albans - one of the cheapest places. Really.

Where is it half that in Dublin? Not the places I've been to. Even early bird specials are €20 in Dublin (Portabello) and its very small portions. You must be eating in McDonalds. Most pubs/ restaurants main courses are €15 - €20 anywhere in Ireland with steaks being €25 to €30.

Best burgers in Dublin are Bunsen and maybe Joburger. Burgers there are about 8-12 Euro. http://www.bunsen.ie/

Best steak in Dublin is Featherblade and it costs €13. You are going to the wrong places dude. http://www.featherblade.ie/menu

Prices are generally going to be expensive in Dublin as it is in all capital cities in western Europe.

by geoff999rugby Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:31 am

I said Herefordshire not Hertfordshire !!

You cant count clubs prices are always cheaper - go to a rugby club in Ireland and you will get a cheaper pint.

On the whole Northern England is cheaper than the South but look where the big clubs in England are

London, Bath, Exeter, Leicester, Northampton, Coventry, Gloucester - virtually no pints under £3.50 there
Sale and Newcastle are the exceptions

Bottomline is simple - beer in England used to be, in most places (especially rugby heartland lands), the same as Ireland and a about £1 cheaper than Dublin or London.

That gap has increased to £2 because of the recent 15% to 20% devaluation caused by Brexit

Not eaten in McDonalds for over 30 years.
If you are paying £15 for a burger and chips in Dublin, that confirms to me you really don't know Dublin very well - I have never paid that sort of price.
Also I know where to go to get pints for the equivalent of about £4, or £3.50 before Brexit and I am talking central not out in the suburbs

As Collapse says a certain capital city mark up - same as London, Paris etc
I still maintain for a big match you can have a cheaper weekend in Dublin, than Cardiff (ignoring travel costs), because of the hotel mark up in Cardiff

by LordDowlais Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:35 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Prices are generally going to be expensive in Dublin as it is in all capital cities in western Europe.

Just Western Europe ? I take it you have not been to Moscow yet then ?

by Collapse2005 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:38 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Prices are generally going to be expensive in Dublin as it is in all capital cities in western Europe.

Just Western Europe ? I take it you have not been to Moscow yet then ?

Yes of course other capital or big cities in other parts of the world are expensive. I have been to Buenos Aires, Tokyo, New York, San Francisco and Sydney recently and they are all more expensive or on a par with Dublin to eat out.

by marty2086 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:44 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Prices are generally going to be expensive in Dublin as it is in all capital cities in western Europe.

Just Western Europe ? I take it you have not been to Moscow yet then ?

Yes of course other capital or big cities in other parts of the world are expensive. I have been to Buenos Aires, Tokyo, New York, San Francisco and Sydney recently and they are all more expensive or on a par with Dublin to eat out.

Yeah but in Ireland theres craic too, so more value for money thumbsup

by LordDowlais Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:48 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Prices are generally going to be expensive in Dublin as it is in all capital cities in western Europe.

Just Western Europe ? I take it you have not been to Moscow yet then ?

Yes of course other capital or big cities in other parts of the world are expensive. I have been to Buenos Aires, Tokyo, New York, San Francisco and Sydney recently and they are all more expensive or on a par with Dublin to eat out.

Food non alcoholic beverages and accommodation in the Eurozone, taking whatever events are going on out of the equation, are about on par with what we pay in the UK.

But for some reason, and it has nowt all to do with brexit, or the strength of the pound, alcoholic beverages, and in particular pints of larger/beer/cider are always extortionate, when I was last in Paris it was a hell of a lot cheaper to drink wine than larger. Dublin was about the same price for a pint as Paris. Berlin was the same, as was Frankfurt, as was Barcelona.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:53 am

marty2086 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Prices are generally going to be expensive in Dublin as it is in all capital cities in western Europe.

Just Western Europe ? I take it you have not been to Moscow yet then ?

Yes of course other capital or big cities in other parts of the world are expensive. I have been to Buenos Aires, Tokyo, New York, San Francisco and Sydney recently and they are all more expensive or on a par with Dublin to eat out.

Yeah but in Ireland theres craic too, so more value for money

Well there is that. Laugh

Ireland and Scotland are my favourite rugby trips of them all. Scotland just pipping Ireland though. Thing is though, when I go to Scotland I always stay in Glasgow, and when I go to Ireland I stay in Bray. Why ? Because Edinburgh and Dublin are always full of us Welsh, I might as well be in Cardiff. Laugh

I kid you not, when I go to these away games, I see more people I know from Wales, than I actually see Irish and Scottish people. So I try and stay off the beaten track, and travel into the cities just for the game, and the festivities afterwards.

by MichaelT Thu 19 Oct 2017, 11:31 am

Fair enough, I did wonder how you thought Hertfordshire was cheap. Laugh

Must learn to read.

But do you think only those places with clubs have rugby fans who will travel for a world cup in Ireland? Pretty sure Newcastle had 52,000 people for world cup matches with Leeds and Manchester being the same/ more. So listing the clubs is moving the goalposts, and not relevant to prices charged. I dont know Dublin very well, because i think its unfriendly and over-priced.

If youre going to be picky and focus on those places in England, than most people for the matches will be in city centre Dublin as thats where the most of the (bigger) matches will take place. Or will stay there as thats where the hotels are/ better infrastructure is. A quick look at TP Smiths shows burger and chips 13.50 (I said 15 euro not pounds), still alot more than your 'half that' and thats a standard place to go in dublin. Even that Bunsen is 10 - 11 with chips and that looks quite basic menu wise. Saying you know where to go is pointless too - match goers will want to be convenient for match, hotel and airport, not going out to here and there to find the pubs locals know are cheap.

The bottom line is theres a reason why you have a 9% VAT rate here for hospitality as the bottom would have fell out of the market years ago without it.

by marty2086 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 12:27 pm

MichaelT wrote:
The bottom line is theres a reason why you have a 9% VAT rate here for hospitality as the bottom would have fell out of the market years ago without it.

Not really especially since there are two countries as part of the bid, not one and the other country has a higher hospitality VAT rate that those who used to be in charge and would like to be in charge again but can't seem to be grown up about it all, would like to drop to the same rate as it encourages investment and growth in the industry and encourages more tourists

by MichaelT Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:09 pm

Not relevant as the point was about the UK being cheaper than Ireland, and how if you're used to going to Wetherspoons or Hungry Horse, or any of the pub chains in UK than you will find paying Irish prices high. We might have got stuck on burger and chips, but when you're away and out for a match and a few drinks, you will mainly go for quick food like that.

And Featherblade Guns? Have you seen the price of drinks - €6.50 for craft beer? Proves my point really. And €34 for a bottle of red? Shocked

Must be how they can charge so little for the food.

by Collapse2005 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

Well there is that.

Ireland and Scotland are my favourite rugby trips of them all. Scotland just pipping Ireland though. Thing is though, when I go to Scotland I always stay in Glasgow, and when I go to Ireland I stay in Bray. Why ? Because Edinburgh and Dublin are always full of us Welsh, I might as well be in Cardiff.

I kid you not, when I go to these away games, I see more people I know from Wales, than I actually see Irish and Scottish people. So I try and stay off the beaten track, and travel into the cities just for the game, and the festivities afterwards.

for some reason you get a lot of welsh staying in Bray on match weekend. I have seen them there a lot recently.

by Collapse2005 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:35 pm

MichaelT wrote:Not relevant as the point was about the UK being cheaper than Ireland, and how if you're used to going to Wetherspoons or Hungry Horse, or any of the pub chains in UK than you will find paying Irish prices high. We might have got stuck on burger and chips, but when you're away and out for a match and a few drinks, you will mainly go for quick food like that.

And Featherblade Guns? Have you seen the price of drinks - €6.50 for craft beer? Proves my point really. And €34 for a bottle of red? Must be how they can charge so little for the food.

Cant please everyone. Can you not take a break from boozing while you eat your meal? I dont drink anyway so it doesnt bother me.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:39 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:for some reason you get a lot of welsh staying in Bray on match weekend. I have seen them there a lot recently.

it is catching on.

A beautiful coastal town, about 4 golf courses, I like to play golf, plenty of nice hotels, the Wilton and the Martello being two of my favourites and a few nice pubs to get bladdered in, and it is not far from Dublin either.

by Golden Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:21 pm

MichaelT wrote:Not relevant as the point was about the UK being cheaper than Ireland, and how if you're used to going to Wetherspoons or Hungry Horse, or any of the pub chains in UK than you will find paying Irish prices high.

So go to the Wetherspoons in Dublin then. You'll find it just as cheap (almost).

You cant use Wetherspoons as the standard for pub prices.

by MichaelT Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:43 pm

In the same way the Ryanair has brought down the prices of air travel in Europe, Wetherpersons (in the UK) has kept drinks prices low, and have influenced the market to a large degree. So you can use them as a barometer, and I would say a lot of people do.

Getting tetchy are we boys?

by marty2086 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:45 pm

MichaelT wrote:In the same way the Ryanair has brought down the prices of air travel in Europe, Wetherpersons (in the UK) has kept drinks prices low, and have influenced the market to a large degree. So you can use them as a barometer, and I would say a lot of people do.

Getting tetchy are we boys?

Not really and if they had then why haven't they done it in Dublin?

by MichaelT Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:53 pm

Dublin is not in the UK, and secondly there are a lot stricter rules/ laws regarding drinks promotions in Ireland than the UK. Which have also kept prices lower.

I'd say thats probably why theres more inner-city yobbish behaviour in the UK than Ireland too. Higher police presence on nights out that you dont see in Ireland.

by Pot Hale Sun 29 Oct 2017, 4:01 am

Apparently, World Rugby has received the independent auditor’s report on the three bids and have given their recommendation on which union should host the RWC 2023 for other unions to consider when they vote in mid-November. France, Ireland and SA are excluded from voting.

WR intend to publish the report/provide to media on this Tuesday.

by Collapse2005 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:16 am

SA in the lead. Looks like Ireland's bid is all but dead in the water now.

by marty2086 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:17 am

Collapse2005 wrote:SA in the lead. Looks like Ireland's bid is all but dead in the water now.

Why? WR Council have to vote on it

by munkian Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:27 am

marty2086 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:SA in the lead. Looks like Ireland's bid is all but dead in the water now.

Why? WR Council have to vote on it

They generally don't go against the recommendation as far as I know.

by Collapse2005 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:36 am

Some unions like NZ have confirmed already that they will pretty much follow World Rugby's recommendations.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:37 am

Guess the government don't need to worry about that guarantee now.

by Sin é Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:42 am

Collapse2005 wrote:SA in the lead. Looks like Ireland's bid is all but dead in the water now.

The marks are very close, so I'm not sure it would be dead in the water yet.

by Sin é Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:43 am

munkian wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:SA in the lead. Looks like Ireland's bid is all but dead in the water now.

Why? WR Council have to vote on it

They generally don't go against the recommendation as far as I know.

This is the first time they have done it this way.

by marty2086 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:57 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Guess the government don't need to worry about that guarantee now.

SA need to worry about it now since Durban had to pull out of hosting the Commonwealth Games in 2022 because they didn't have the money for it

by munkian Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:58 am

Ireland should boycott the semifinals in protest !

by marty2086 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 12:00 pm

munkian wrote:Ireland should boycott the semifinals in protest !

Englands protest at the group seedings worked well last time round Whistle

by marty2086 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 12:01 pm

The scores given to the three bids

Ireland's bid for 2023 World Cup - venues announced + Gov. underwriting 320m - Page 9 Screen10

by Engine#4 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 12:25 pm

Be interesting to see a more detailed report of that scoring. For example how did Ireland tie with South Africa on the finance side or how did SA outstrip the other two on infrastructure?

by No9 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 12:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:The scores given to the three bids

If those are the scores, then I'd say Ireland is there making up the numbers going into the vote, as they didn't win any of those categories.

Of course, the most important category was missing..

That being the Quality of the Guinness .... On that Ireland (specifically Dublin) gets my vote every time..

by marty2086 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 12:40 pm

Seems the work needed for Pearse Stadium, Fitzgerald Stadium and Pairc Ui Chaoimh made the Ireland bid higher risk but Casement Park was the bigger concern because of the delays there. steam

by Scottrf Tue 31 Oct 2017, 1:30 pm

Engine#4 wrote:Be interesting to see a more detailed report of that scoring. For example how did Ireland tie with South Africa on the finance side or how did SA outstrip the other two on infrastructure?

https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/worldrugby/document/2017/10/31/e8dd4d9c-bcea-4a5c-a657-5e105c25be86/RWC_Report_v3.1a1_Redacted.pdf

by Gwlad Tue 31 Oct 2017, 3:01 pm

Congrats SA exactly the right choice, a RWC in Ireland would have been a waste of an occasion.

by Scottrf Tue 31 Oct 2017, 3:15 pm

Gwlad wrote:Congrats SA exactly the right choice, a RWC in Ireland would have been a waste of an occasion.

Why?

by marty2086 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 3:37 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Congrats SA exactly the right choice, a RWC in Ireland would have been a waste of an occasion.

Why?

Ireland's bid for 2023 World Cup - venues announced + Gov. underwriting 320m - Page 9 Intern10

by Gwlad Tue 31 Oct 2017, 3:44 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Congrats SA exactly the right choice, a RWC in Ireland would have been a waste of an occasion.

Why?

Exactly we dont want leprechauns on steroids running our RWCs

by marty2086 Tue 31 Oct 2017, 5:09 pm

Gwlad wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Congrats SA exactly the right choice, a RWC in Ireland would have been a waste of an occasion.

Why?

Exactly we dont want leprechauns on steroids running our RWCs

I thought the steroid epidemic was in Welsh rugby?

by catchweight Tue 31 Oct 2017, 6:27 pm

Is it a coincidence that the scoring seemed to work out proportional to what each country was guaranteeing in money? Or is that being cynical?

by geoff999rugby Tue 31 Oct 2017, 6:40 pm

catchweight wrote:Is it a coincidence that the scoring seemed to work out proportional to what each country was guaranteeing in money? Or is that being cynical?

That thought had crossed my mind as well

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