Welsh regions can no longer carry on being Pro12 'fodder' for Irish and Scottish rivals, says former Lions legend

At last, an article that I can really relate to. I could not agree more with Phil Bennett, our regions must do better this year. Cue all the haters coming on here and telling me about funding and the like, but the tools are here in Wales, I am not saying we should be dominating the Pro12, but I would at least like to see us get 3 teams into the top 6 and one fighting for 7th/8th. I reckon, the world cup really affected our teams in a negative way last season. Hopefully no world cup will be a massive burden lifted this time around.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-regions-can-no-longer-11811023

Anyway, with the season starting on Friday, and with me feeling like a kid counting down the days to Christmas morning, what would our regional fans on here consider a decent achievement for next season ? What would you be happy with ? I firmly believe that Ospreys, Blues and Scarlets can finish in the top six, at the expense of Munster and Connacht. I would also like to see Ospreys and Blues get to at least the semi finals of the second tier European competition, even Dragons could get to that stage.

Whats your thoughts on the coming season ?

LD, I think there's every chance that the Welsh can compete, they have good players and some decent coaches so why not.
Interestingly the comments on piece are almost the total opposite of what gets posted on here regarding why Welsh clubs are not doing well, i.e. the main faults are within Wales and the WRU - fourth AI etc., and no comments about the dastardly Irish and Scots doing them over.

Irish Londoner wrote:and no comments about the dastardly Irish and Scots doing them over.

Nobody says that though. What a strange thing to say.

People do say that union controlled systems and privately owned systems cannot work together, but I do not want to drag this topic down that road.

LordDowlais wrote:At last, an article that I can really relate to. I could not agree more with Phil Bennett, our regions must do better this year. Cue all the haters coming on here and telling me about funding and the like, but the tools are here in Wales, I am not saying we should be dominating the Pro12, but I would at least like to see us get 3 teams into the top 6 and one fighting for 7th/8th. I reckon, the world cup really affected our teams in a negative way last season. Hopefully no world cup will be a massive burden lifted this time around.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-regions-can-no-longer-11811023

Anyway, with the season starting on Friday, and with me feeling like a kid counting down the days to Christmas morning, what would our regional fans on here consider a decent achievement for next season ? What would you be happy with ? I firmly believe that Ospreys, Blues and Scarlets can finish in the top six, at the expense of Munster and Connacht. I would also like to see Ospreys and Blues get to at least the semi finals of the second tier European competition, even Dragons could get to that stage.

Whats your thoughts on the coming season ?

New season, same old Bowellais.

When people point out the huge wage disparity between the Welsh teams and their Scottish and Irish rivals that's not them being haters, that's them trying to disabuse you of the nonsense you trot out season after season.

The pro teams have not yet turned the corner. All have comedy players in their best XVs and are only a couple of injuries away from a load more. Many of the better WQ players have peaked or are in decline. I can't see one reason to think they'll be any more competitive than last season.

"Cue all the haters coming on here and telling me about funding and the like, but the tools are here in Wales"

Well I think we could all name at least 2 tools

LordDowlais wrote:At last, an article that I can really relate to. I could not agree more with Phil Bennett, our regions must do better this year. Cue all the haters coming on here and telling me about funding and the like, but the tools are here in Wales, I am not saying we should be dominating the Pro12, but I would at least like to see us get 3 teams into the top 6 and one fighting for 7th/8th. I reckon, the world cup really affected our teams in a negative way last season. Hopefully no world cup will be a massive burden lifted this time around.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-regions-can-no-longer-11811023

Anyway, with the season starting on Friday, and with me feeling like a kid counting down the days to Christmas morning, what would our regional fans on here consider a decent achievement for next season ? What would you be happy with ? I firmly believe that Ospreys, Blues and Scarlets can finish in the top six, at the expense of Munster and Connacht. I would also like to see Ospreys and Blues get to at least the semi finals of the second tier European competition, even Dragons could get to that stage.

Whats your thoughts on the coming season ?

First paragraph, it isn't "haters" who remind you about budgets etc. You mention it yourself when it suits you.

Second bit. How are Connacht likely to drop from winners to 7th? That's pretty nonsensical, even for you. As for your last bit, even Dragons could get to that stage? That's a bit ignorant on your part (shock) given that we have done so for the past two seasons.

And here they come. Two members on here who I could have put in my original post to bet who would be the first to have a go. Making up excuses before a die has been cast. Some people seriously need to get over themselves.

I think this season will be much like last season, there will be 6-7 teams battling for play off spots from the off, one or two regions being in the mix, and 8-9 teams having a realistic Poopie at getting into the top six with the final few rounds to go.

So all in all a pretty competitive tournament, leading to bickering about poor end of season standings and ignoring how competitive the season has actually been.

RiscaGame wrote:Second bit. How are Connacht likely to drop from winners to 7th?

Well, for a start, there is no world cup, so that will take Connacht's early season advantage away from them, secondly, the regions have recruited a lot better than Connacht, so that is why I expect them to drop out. In fact, besides Ulster, I would say that Ospreys, Scarlets and Cardiff Blues have recruited better than all the other Irish regions and the Scottish teams.

RiscaGame wrote:That's a bit ignorant on your part (shock) given that we have done so for the past two seasons.

When have Dragons finished 7th or 8th in the league lately ?

LordDowlais wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Second bit. How are Connacht likely to drop from winners to 7th?

Well, for a start, there is no world cup, so that will take Connacht's early season advantage away from them, secondly, the regions have recruited a lot better than Connacht, so that is why I expect them to drop out. In fact, besides Ulster, I would say that Ospreys, Scarlets and Cardiff Blues have recruited better than all the other Irish regions and the Scottish teams.

RiscaGame wrote:That's a bit ignorant on your part (shock) given that we have done so for the past two seasons.

When have Dragons finished 7th or 8th in the league lately ?

There's still a fourth AI. Has that slipped your mind? The big three will still have their players flogged by team Wales for a lot of the season.

What relevance is league position to making the semis of the second tier European comp? That makes little sense again. You said even the Dragons could make the semis, when we have for the past two seasons. Don't try and cover up your ignorance. League position is an irrelevance to that competition, as we have proven. So my point remains that you're either ignorant, or you should maybe take a bit more time to consider what you are posting before you hit send.

LordDowlais wrote:I would also like to see Ospreys and Blues get to at least the semi finals of the second tier European competition, even Dragons could get to that stage.

Yes, if they put their minds to it, even the lowly Dragons could get to the semi finals of the Challenge Cup - for the third season in a row.

We're not great, we know that, but a little credit where it's due would be nice.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We're not great, we know that, but a little credit where it's due would be nice. OK

I congratulated Dragons when they achieved it. What I meant to say was that Dragons could get to the semi's AGAIN, if they avoid one of the other Welsh regions on their way.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We're not great, we know that, but a little credit where it's due would be nice. OK

I congratulated Dragons when they achieved it. What I meant to say was that Dragons could get to the semi's if they avoid one of the other Welsh regions on their way.

Yeah, as we didn't knock out one of the regions when we made the semis the first time. Jesus. There's no guarantee that Cardiff or Ospreys will make the knockout stages of this comp anyway. For a start, if they are going as well in the league as you insist they should do, maybe they won't prioritise the Challenge Cup.

Hmmm, that was nothing like what you said..

And yeah - God forbid we get the mighty mighty Cardiff again.

FFS. Here come all the Dragon's fans crying like babies because it's all unfair.

What would you all consider a decent season ?

LordDowlais wrote:FFS. Here come all the Dragon's fans crying like babies because it's all unfair.

What would you all consider a decent season ?

So you get something completely wrong and are rather patronising about it but obviously the people pointing out your mistake are 'babies'

Good to know.

OK, so let's ignore the Dragon's fans with their chips on their shoulders and talk about the coming season.

What would you describe as a good season this time around ?

I'd like Cardiff to win both games in Italy and to have their results in Ireland not directly affected by refereeing decisions.

I think that early season will be difficult whilst new partnerships are bedded in (front five and half back especially) but I am optimistic of them being competitive.

Everything which happens in a game is affected by everything else. The players and management are the ones who win and lose. Sore losers look to blame external factors.

What would you be happy with this season Phil ?

LordDowlais wrote:What would you be happy with this season Phil ?

I think that the PrO'12 is such a mismatch of fixtures and officiating that trying to guess a finishing position is beyond me. The league depends on who you play and when, plus who is reffing that game, so there are too many variables for me to work out a league position.

I'd like my team to do well, to be competitive and to beat Bath in Bath as revenge.

I think that the Euro Group is really tough when you consider the wage bills at Bath and Pau, so it will need a sneaky win at Bristol plus three home wins (which will be really tough) to progress. Unless, of course, Pau don't give a monkey's.

PhilBB wrote:I'd like Cardiff to win both games in Italy and to have their results in Ireland not directly affected by refereeing decisions.

Cant beat he whipping boys but lose in Ireland to some of the top teams and its a dodgy ref that done it

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:I'd like Cardiff to win both games in Italy and to have their results in Ireland not directly affected by refereeing decisions.

Cant beat he whipping boys but lose in Ireland to some of the top teams and its a dodgy ref that done it

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/referee_games.php?refereeID=187&season=2015-2016

Just 5 competitive away wins. Let's look at the Munster penalty try vs Connacht to see how that looks, thus negating one of the away wins. We're now down to 4. One is Harlequins beating Italian amateurs. We're now down to 3. The Turks winning in Dave Parade can move us to 2.

And that's before we consider the yellow card awarded by the IRFU official when Cardiff played Leinster in Dublin.

?

Laughing at you Phil moaning about refs. You're more suited to football I think.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Laughing at you Phil moaning about refs. You're more suited to football I think.

Right, I see.

Must not moan about refs. It just isn't rugby.

Oh.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-introduce-neutral-television-11789218

Pat Lam. More suited to soccer.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701130

Michael Cheika.

More suited to soccer.

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:FFS. Here come all the Dragon's fans crying like babies because it's all unfair.

What would you all consider a decent season ?

So you get something completely wrong and are rather patronising about it but obviously the people pointing out your mistake are 'babies'

Good to know.

Every article posted by Dowellais seems to descend into muppetry and mostly by his own doing. Did you expect this one to be any different?

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:I'd like Cardiff to win both games in Italy and to have their results in Ireland not directly affected by refereeing decisions.

Cant beat he whipping boys but lose in Ireland to some of the top teams and its a dodgy ref that done it

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/referee_games.php?refereeID=187&season=2015-2016

Just 5 competitive away wins. Let's look at the Munster penalty try vs Connacht to see how that looks, thus negating one of the away wins. We're now down to 4. One is Harlequins beating Italian amateurs. We're now down to 3. The Turks winning in Dave Parade can move us to 2.

And that's before we consider the yellow card awarded by the IRFU official when Cardiff played Leinster in Dublin.

Sorry is there a point there?

Generally home teams fair better across the board results wise, if a team is defending more they will face more pressure meaning more penalties and cards

You are talking about the tackling the player without the ball? Its was a stretch of a decision but one that that could be argued for given the situation, didn't Connacht win that game anyway?

It seems you chose the criteria for a valid away win though just like who awards things on the field, just like the decisions a Welsh ref gives a yellow and you blame the Irish AR not that it was a correct decision or anything or the Welsh ref giving the penalty try?

Maybe we should all chip in for a violin for you

marty2086 wrote:

Sorry is there a point there?

Generally home teams fair better across the board results wise, if a team is defending more they will face more pressure meaning more penalties and cards

You are talking about the tackling the player without the ball? Its was a stretch of a decision but one that that could be argued for given the situation, didn't Connacht win that game anyway?

It seems you chose the criteria for a valid away win though just like who awards things on the field, just like the decisions a Welsh ref gives a yellow and you blame the Irish AR not that it was a correct decision or anything or the Welsh ref giving the penalty try?

Maybe we should all chip in for a violin for you

The point is that Whitehouse is a homer.
I am not 'talking about tackling the player without the ball'.
The yellow card was not the correct decision. The referee took the instruction as he was unseen.

Please do chip in. Whilst doing so, take something off the top so you can sign up for English comprehension lessons. As ever, you're making Owen Robins look intelligent.

We are writing on a forum not a bloody dissertation you have a problem with it all maybe go back and converse with the intelligentsia at the Arms Park. You are the only one who complains, so maybe Im not the problem

It isn't a point, its an opinion.

Well the tackling the man without the ball is the only penalty try I remember and the highlights confirm it

You say it wasn't the right decision but you aren't at all biased are you?

marty2086 wrote:We are writing on a forum not a bloody dissertation you have a problem with it all maybe go back and converse with the intelligentsia at the Arms Park

It isn't a point, its an opinion.

Well the tackling the man without the ball is the only penalty try I remember and the highlights confirm it

You say it wasn't the right decision but you aren't at all biased are you?

So an opinion can't be a point?

I'm not discussing a penalty try.

Please, you really struggle to understand what I write so why don't you just ignore it? It's clearly not for you. When you try to reply, you just end up looking stupid and showing that you can't add up.

My point on Whitehouse was his Cardiff games. What he did for Munster in trying to get them a victory at home is of little relevance to me, other than to further prove the point.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:We are writing on a forum not a bloody dissertation you have a problem with it all maybe go back and converse with the intelligentsia at the Arms Park

It isn't a point, its an opinion.

Well the tackling the man without the ball is the only penalty try I remember and the highlights confirm it

You say it wasn't the right decision but you aren't at all biased are you?

So an opinion can't be a point?

I'm not discussing a penalty try.

Please, you really struggle to understand what I write so why don't you just ignore it? It's clearly not for you. When you try to reply, you just end up looking stupid and showing that you can't add up.

'Let's look at the Munster penalty try vs Connacht to see how that looks, thus negating one of the away wins'

Not discussing a penalty try?

I struggle to understand what you write?

I look stupid?

Yes, you do. Look at both posts.

Oh dear. I came back on with the misguided hope that Dowellais would offer a good response to the discussion offered to him by myself and I see those two posts. From the self proclaimed debater as well.

Your post is your usual whining drivel, lacking in actual context just a load of numbers and stats trying to obscure reality to back up your paranoid writings

As I said, Cardiff can't beat the whipping boys of the league yet the top teams they lose against because of everybody else?

You say the AR calling a player going in from the side of a maul and pulling it down was the wrong call? Despite him, you know, going in from the side and pulling it down

marty2086 wrote:Your post is your usual whining drivel, lacking in actual context just a load of numbers and stats trying to obscure reality to back up your paranoid writings

As I said, Cardiff can't beat the whipping boys of the league yet the top teams they lose against because of everybody else?

You say the AR calling a player going in from the side of a maul and pulling it down was the wrong call? Despite him, you know, going in from the side and pulling it down

Cheers, martyn. I've no idea how you've arrived at any of that, other than the obvious, but there we go.

PhilBB wrote:Oh.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-introduce-neutral-television-11789218

Already a topic discussing bringing that in following sore losers moaning!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Oh.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-introduce-neutral-television-11789218

Already a topic discussing bringing that in following sore losers moaning!

Eh?

LordDowlais wrote:At last, an article that I can really relate to. I could not agree more with Phil Bennett, our regions must do better this year. Cue all the haters coming on here and telling me about funding and the like, but the tools are here in Wales, I am not saying we should be dominating the Pro12, but I would at least like to see us get 3 teams into the top 6 and one fighting for 7th/8th. I reckon, the world cup really affected our teams in a negative way last season. Hopefully no world cup will be a massive burden lifted this time around.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-regions-can-no-longer-11811023

Anyway, with the season starting on Friday, and with me feeling like a kid counting down the days to Christmas morning, what would our regional fans on here consider a decent achievement for next season ? What would you be happy with ? I firmly believe that Ospreys, Blues and Scarlets can finish in the top six, at the expense of Munster and Connacht. I would also like to see Ospreys and Blues get to at least the semi finals of the second tier European competition, even Dragons could get to that stage.

Whats your thoughts on the coming season ?

Ospreys and Cardiff will do better. Ospreys and Scarlets will be fighting for a top 4 place. Cardiff will fight for a top 6, and maybe top 4.

The fight for top 6 will be incredibly close between 9 teams for most of the season, I believe, and stamina (Fitness levels/Strength in Depth) will decide who makes it.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Oh.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-introduce-neutral-television-11789218

Already a topic discussing bringing that in following sore losers moaning!

Eh?

You're really struggling today eh?

No 7&1/2 wrote:
You're really struggling today eh?

I always struggle to spot what point you are trying to make. Above, you claimed I'd be better off following soccer because I can spot refereeing issues. I've yet to see you admit that you were bloody stupid to make that claim.

I suggested you follow football for a few reasons 1 being you'll find loads more people (though there a fair few here) who hold the ref more responsible than their own players. Refs make mistakes its not news. You'd enjoy footy though; go support man u you'll even have Jose moaning about refs with you.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I suggested you follow football for a few reasons 1 being you'll find loads more people (though there a fair few here) who hold the ref more responsible than their own players. Refs make mistakes its not news. You'd enjoy footy though; go support man u you'll even have Jose moaning about refs with you.

There's enough people in rugby pointing out more than just ref errors, thanks.

Plus, of course, refs hold far more responsibility in rugby than they do in soccer. But thanks for the advice.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Your post is your usual whining drivel, lacking in actual context just a load of numbers and stats trying to obscure reality to back up your paranoid writings

As I said, Cardiff can't beat the whipping boys of the league yet the top teams they lose against because of everybody else?

You say the AR calling a player going in from the side of a maul and pulling it down was the wrong call? Despite him, you know, going in from the side and pulling it down

Cheers, martyn. I've no idea how you've arrived at any of that, other than the obvious, but there we go.

The obvious being you are a paranoid complainer who can't just say his team isn't good enough?

That's known as a sore loser