Welsh regions can no longer carry on being Pro12 'fodder' for Irish and Scottish rivals, says former Lions legend

First topic message reminder :

At last, an article that I can really relate to. I could not agree more with Phil Bennett, our regions must do better this year. Cue all the haters coming on here and telling me about funding and the like, but the tools are here in Wales, I am not saying we should be dominating the Pro12, but I would at least like to see us get 3 teams into the top 6 and one fighting for 7th/8th. I reckon, the world cup really affected our teams in a negative way last season. Hopefully no world cup will be a massive burden lifted this time around.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-regions-can-no-longer-11811023

Anyway, with the season starting on Friday, and with me feeling like a kid counting down the days to Christmas morning, what would our regional fans on here consider a decent achievement for next season ? What would you be happy with ? I firmly believe that Ospreys, Blues and Scarlets can finish in the top six, at the expense of Munster and Connacht. I would also like to see Ospreys and Blues get to at least the semi finals of the second tier European competition, even Dragons could get to that stage.

Whats your thoughts on the coming season ?

marty2086 wrote:

The obvious being you are a paranoid complainer who can't just say his team isn't good enough?

That's known as a sore loser

Oh, I see.

For many seasons, Cardiff haven't been good enough. That, of course, doesn't mean that their results could have been better with better refereeing. It was their own fault for such incidents affecting their results.

How about that? Hopefully you'll no longer need for me to write the obvious to you as I, foolishly, took the above to be granted.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I suggested you follow football for a few reasons 1 being you'll find loads more people (though there a fair few here) who hold the ref more responsible than their own players. Refs make mistakes its not news. You'd enjoy footy though; go support man u you'll even have Jose moaning about refs with you.

There's enough people in rugby pointing out more than just ref errors, thanks.

Plus, of course, refs hold far more responsibility in rugby than they do in soccer. But thanks for the advice.

Still makes you a poor loser though. Whats the point in the players at all? They can't even influence a game more than 1 decision from 1 man!? ManU would be the perfect club for you.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The obvious being you are a paranoid complainer who can't just say his team isn't good enough?

That's known as a sore loser

Oh, I see.

For many seasons, Cardiff haven't been good enough. That, of course, doesn't mean that their results could have been better with better refereeing. It was their own fault for such incidents affecting their results.

How about that? Hopefully you'll no longer need for me to write the obvious to you as I, foolishly, took the above to be granted.

Oh good finaling acknowledging its not the refs fault (nearly!).

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Still makes you a poor loser though. Whats the point in the players at all? They can't even influence a game more than 1 decision from 1 man!? ManU would be the perfect club for you.

Ok, I see. Pointing out game changing decisions by referees, however factual, makes somebody 'a poor loser'.

Sign me up for that.

We both agree you're a sore loser then, done.

No 7&1/2 wrote:We both agree you're a sore loser then, done.

I've yet to meet a winner who isn't.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The obvious being you are a paranoid complainer who can't just say his team isn't good enough?

That's known as a sore loser

Oh, I see.

For many seasons, Cardiff haven't been good enough. That, of course, doesn't mean that their results could have been better with better refereeing. It was their own fault for such incidents affecting their results.

How about that? Hopefully you'll no longer need for me to write the obvious to you as I, foolishly, took the above to be granted.

Every team in the league can point to single decisions and games and say they are hard down by, both real and imagined.

Rather than just saying the refs are rubbish and/or the players were poopie you have to come off with this theories of IRFU conspiracies or refs being homers except where it doesn't suit you then there are good reasons for that

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:We both agree you're a sore loser then, done.

I've yet to meet a winner who isn't.

Must be gutting for you to support losers in rugby then. You'll get a bit more practice getting used to it anyway!

marty2086 wrote:

Every team in the league can point to single decisions and games and say they are hard down by, both real and imagined.

Rather than just saying the refs are rubbish and/or the players were poopie you have to come off with this theories of IRFU conspiracies or refs being homers except where it doesn't suit you then there are good reasons for that

Sure they can and they do. Referee accountability is a very important part of modern sport and will hopefully come more to the forefront of the PrO'12, instead of it being done behind closed doors as it is now.

I think that the stats do suggest which referees are more likely to go for home wins. You might wish to disagree with the stats, but I don't. As for independence of referees, there's good reason why the PrO'12 has taken steps towards that this season and why every league / international sport does similar.

It seems to me that you're arguing in the face of facts.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:We both agree you're a sore loser then, done.

I've yet to meet a winner who isn't.

Must be gutting for you to support losers in rugby then. You'll get a bit more practice getting used to it anyway!

Yes, you're right.

Who do you support, again?

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Every team in the league can point to single decisions and games and say they are hard down by, both real and imagined.

Rather than just saying the refs are rubbish and/or the players were poopie you have to come off with this theories of IRFU conspiracies or refs being homers except where it doesn't suit you then there are good reasons for that

Sure they can and they do. Referee accountability is a very important part of modern sport and will hopefully come more to the forefront of the PrO'12, instead of it being done behind closed doors as it is now.

I think that the stats do suggest which referees are more likely to go for home wins. You might wish to disagree with the stats, but I don't. As for independence of referees, there's good reason why the PrO'12 has taken steps towards that this season and why every league / international sport does similar.

It seems to me that you're arguing in the face of facts.

I don't argue with the stats, I argue with your interpretation. As I stated homes wins are more likely across the board in rugby meaning that the home team will attack more and the away will face more pressure, more pressure equals more mistakes which usually equate to foul play.

The good reason being the one stated that they want to remove the perception of bias

As for every league, please see Super Rugby

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:We both agree you're a sore loser then, done.

I've yet to meet a winner who isn't.

Must be gutting for you to support losers in rugby then. You'll get a bit more practice getting used to it anyway!

Yes, you're right.

Who do you support, again?

Current 6Ns Grand Slam Champions.

I think he meant club team... Which is Quins isn't it? Who aren't up to much these days either.

marty2086 wrote:

I don't argue with the stats, I argue with your interpretation. As I stated homes wins are more likely across the board in rugby meaning that the home team will attack more and the away will face more pressure, more pressure equals more mistakes which usually equate to foul play.

The good reason being the one stated that they want to remove the perception of bias

As for every league, please see Super Rugby

So you agree that there is a perception of bias yet you think that I'm misrepresenting the stats that indicate the same thing.

Ok.

I know nothing about Super Rugby. Doesn't it use neutral refs? I know that there was a fuss about the final but is that the norm? That, of course, being another Blazer ruined competition.

mikey_dragon wrote:I think he meant club team... Which is Quins isn't it? Who aren't up to much these days either.

Don't support any club side. Got into rugby as I was moving around so never felt right to support anyone. Watch Donny Knights for live rugby but supporting them would be a stretch.Never lived in London.

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Don't support any club side. Got into rugby as I was moving around so never felt right to support anyone. Watch Donny Knights for live rugby but supporting them would be a stretch.Never lived in London.

Ah, that explains it.

What explainhs what SL?

SL?

What explains what? SL was short for your self acknowledgement of being a sore loser but do answer the question.

No 7&1/2 wrote:What explains what? SL was short for your self acknowledgement of being a sore loser but do answer the question.

It explains that you either have no empathy for club supporters or you're a liar.

Theres refs in all levels but its true I have little sympathy for sore losers who blame them over theiir own teams failings.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Theres refs in all levels but its true I have little sympathy for sore losers who blame them over theiir own teams failings.

That's the way. Write a complete non-sequitur.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

I don't argue with the stats, I argue with your interpretation. As I stated homes wins are more likely across the board in rugby meaning that the home team will attack more and the away will face more pressure, more pressure equals more mistakes which usually equate to foul play.

The good reason being the one stated that they want to remove the perception of bias

As for every league, please see Super Rugby

So you agree that there is a perception of bias yet you think that I'm misrepresenting the stats that indicate the same thing.

Ok.

I know nothing about Super Rugby. Doesn't it use neutral refs? I know that there was a fuss about the final but is that the norm? That, of course, being another Blazer ruined competition.

And you call me slow? The perception is that refs of different nationalities favour the teams from their own country, stats showing home teams get more favourable decisions doesn't fit that perception its a separate one. I have perceived a bias from Clancy and Lacey against Ulster, doesn't mean there is bias. You talked about a number of decisions to back up your stats that were correct decisions yet you again dispute it and say the stats back you up, the reality doesn't.

I've explained Super Rugby to you a number of times

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Theres refs in all levels but its true I have little sympathy for sore losers who blame them over theiir own teams failings.

That's the way. Write a complete non-sequitur.

I support England who have their games reffed occassionally badly hence I can understand yet I have no sympathy for people who prefer to blame refs for defeats when the players always have more say in a match. Sorry honestly thought you were sharp enough to follow!