Wales thread continued - 2017/18 season

by mikey_dragon Wed 14 Sep 2016, 2:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

2017/2018 season results (full fixture list posted below).

Wales 21 - 29 Australia
Wales 13 - 6 Georgia
Wales 18 - 33 New Zealand
Wales 24 - 22 South Africa

Wales 2018 6N Squad:
Forwards: Rob Evans (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, capt), James Davies (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).

Backs: Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), ~~Rhys Webb~~ (Ospreys), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), ~~Rhys Priestland~~ (Bath), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors), Hallam Amos (Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Steff Evans (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Saracens).

Faletau, Biggar expected to be available later on in the tournament. Amos, L Williams perhaps a little sooner.

Call-ups to cover injuries, etc.
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I thought we'd start with the Autumn series. Gatland the Great is set to return and shake things up after another disappointing season underneath the Howler and his pal McBryde. The fixtures for this series are as follows:

November 2017
Sat 11th Nov 17 17:15
Wales v Australia
Sat 18th Nov 17 14:30
Wales v Georgia
Sat 25th Nov 17 17:15
Wales v New Zealand
December 2017
Sat 2nd Dec 17 14:30
Wales v South Africa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there's no time like now so why not. Last year was a bit disappointing, topped off with an unsuccessful tour to NZ (as expected). Whilst I'm hoping for better this season my expectations are low as we have Howler and some other amateurs in charge who got the job because they were mates with Gatland and others in the WRU.

AI's
Wales V Australia 05/11/2016
8 - 32
Wales V Argentina 12/11/2016
24 - 20
Wales V Japan 19/11/2016
33 - 30
Wales V South Africa 26/11/2016
27 - 13

6 Nations
Italy V Wales 05/02/2017
7 - 33
Wales V England 11/02/2017
16 - 21
Scotland V Wales 25/02/2017
29 - 13
Wales V Ireland 10/03/2017
22 - 9
France V Wales 18/03/2017
20 -18

Very tough AI series but a kind start in the 6N. So far this season Blues and Ospreys look good, but how many of their players will be starters for Wales? Cuthbert is starting to look like his old self and if this continues he could come back into the team. Tomos Williams looks like a good player and if he also continues in this vein then might he take advantage of Gareth Davies' supposed rustiness? It's still early days but going by what I've seen and the reports I've read I would like to see a new centre partnership and also perhaps see our old back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny reinstated - although a lot could happen between now and November. With Faletau out I think we can all guess who the wildcards will be, but who does that leave to play at No.8 - possibly Warburton with Ellis Jenkins at 7? What changes (if any) would you like to see? Keep it sensible please.

WALES 2016 UNDER ARMOUR SERIES SQUAD
Prop Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues) (12 Caps) Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (14 Caps) Rhys Gill (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps) Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (126 Caps) Samson Lee (Scarlets) (28 Caps) Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
Hooker Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) (24 Caps) Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) (3 Caps) Ken Owens (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
Second Row Jake Ball (Scarlets) (20 Caps) Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby) (68 Caps) Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (56 Caps) Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (102 Caps) Rory Thornton (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Back Row Dan Baker (Ospreys) (3 Caps) Taulupe Faletau* (Bath Rugby) (61 Caps) James King (Ospreys) (8 Caps) Dan Lydiate (Ospreys) (57 Caps) Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (9 Caps) Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (43 Caps) Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues) (67 Caps)
Scrum Half Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (17 Caps) Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (22 Caps) Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) (27 Caps)
Fly Half Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) (8 Caps) Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (48 Caps) Sam Davies (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Centre Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (56 Caps) Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons) (3 Caps) Jamie Roberts* (Harlequins) (83 Caps) Scott Williams (Scarlets) (38 Caps)
Wing/Full Back Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons) (10 Caps) Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (42 Caps) Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (62 Caps) George North* (Northampton Saints) (62 Caps) Liam Williams (Scarlets) (35 Caps) * Denotes Senior Player Selection Policy wildcard selection.
Ospreys wing Keelan Giles, Cardiff Blues full-back Rhun Williams and Dragons pair Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will train with the Wales squad.

June summer tour
Tonga 6 - 24 Wales
Samoa 17 - 19 Wales

by mikey_dragon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:11 pm

wayne wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I see no sense in moving Liam Williams to accommodate Halfpenny - particularly with Biggar pretty much nailed on at 10 and taking the kicks. I'd make Halfpenny earn his way back into the side from the bench. Williams is a class act. North and Amos would complete my back three.

The centres is a tough one for Wales. Roberts and JD2 is an experienced and tested combo, but there are some talented players knocking on the door, particularly Tyler Morgan, Scott Williams and Cory Allen. Tough call for Howley.

It's Webb and Biggar every day of the week for me at halfback. Back-up is harder to call, although I'd have Gareth Davies on the bench for impact. Probably one from Gareth Anscombe, Matt Morgan, Sam Davies and Rhys Priestland, although the latter is probably out of the reckoning due to Gatland's Law.

That is good Fes, after his performances out in NZ and at home I wouldn't have Scott Williams on the bench, Tyler and Anscombe for me.

FES, it's not to accommodate Halfpenny who is playing well, it's more to do with the fact that Williams is one of our best wingers. I'm not sure if they'd pick James or Cuthbert. North, Amos and Williams is a back 3 I'd be happy with though.

Agree with you on the centre's but so far Williams hasn't played well either, and according to reports from Quins Roberts has also been in poor form.

Halfback for me would be Webb, Biggar starting with Davies, Anscombe on the bench - Davies can be a game changer and Anscombe is there as injury cover more than anything. Me personally, I can't see Morgan or Sam Davies being the fly-half reckoning and if Priestland isn't picked then it's due to him being an international failure rather than this ever-changing Gatland's law.

by wayne Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:14 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
chris_501 wrote:What do people think to a back row of

6. Moriarty
7. Warburton
8. Navidi?

Decent - you could swap Warburton and Navidi around I guess. I'm assuming Ellis Jenkins would be on your bench too?

Mikey I've been mightily entertained for a while now with your pushing for Ellis Jenkins for this squad, why would you pick 2 out of 3 of a back row for the National Team when they were totally outplayed by an Ospreys back row of 6) Cracknell, 7) King (named MOTM by the broadcasters) and (that well known 8) Dan Lydiate, on Judgement Day, it was helped by the powder puff WRUburton going off early (yet again).
Let me say that NOT ONE Blues back row player would get in our team in the type of game we are playing ATM. It might suit the game of the captain if Gatlandball is being used, you really need to open your eyes and actually watch what Tipuric does in a game. He has a far superior skill set than probably anybody else within Welsh Rugby and has for quite a while.

by mikey_dragon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:15 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:No you idiot.

Classy.

So what is it then ?

We WILL play players out of position ? Or We WILL NOT play players out of position ?

Baker doesn't regularly play 8. Want to know how I know? Because Ardon's form is stopping him from getting regular rugby, if you watched rugby you'd know. I've never agreed with you that Baker will play 8 - can't you refrain from acting stupid because it's the end of the day and it's getting annoying now.

As for your other question, i'll check my crystal ball and get back to you. Me personally however, Morairty and Warburton to cover No.8. If you're convinced that the players you listed earlier are playing out of position, you're still incorrect.

by mikey_dragon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:20 pm

wayne wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
chris_501 wrote:What do people think to a back row of

6. Moriarty
7. Warburton
8. Navidi?

Decent - you could swap Warburton and Navidi around I guess. I'm assuming Ellis Jenkins would be on your bench too?
Mikey I've been mightily entertained for a while now with your pushing for Ellis Jenkins for this squad, why would you pick 2 out of 3 of a back row for the National Team when they were totally outplayed by an Ospreys back row of 6) Cracknell, 7) King (named MOTM by the broadcasters) and (that well known 8) Dan Lydiate, on Judgement Day, it was helped by the powder puff WRUburton going off early (yet again).
Let me say that NOT ONE Blues back row player would get in our team in the type of game we are playing ATM. It might suit the game of the captain if Gatlandball is being used, you really need to open your eyes and actually watch what Tipuric does in a game. He has a far superior skill set than probably anybody else within Welsh Rugby and has for quite a while.

Where-as NOT ONE of your back-row would get into the Blues team with the way they're playing Smile

. I don't expect them to pick all three of Warbs, Navidi and Jenkins but it is difficult to ignore the form of the latter two. I've championed Navidi for a while now. End of last season Jenkins was the best in Wales and it still looks that way. Not only does he manage to score tries he actually does what a flanker is supposed to do; make a lot of tackles, turnovers and be a strong carrier - so for me he's ahead of Tips and Cubby. I'm not really concerned as to what happened in a one-off game last year, I'm sure you're over your game against Ulster last season as well right?
I know some folk don't agree with me but I think Tips is just another overhyped Osprey. I haven't seen much of him this season but from what I've seen he actually does look a bit better than last season. Saying he has the best skill set in Welsh rugby is overstretching it by miles - the guy shows up on the wing and puts in a pass or scores in the corner - that's not amazing skills!

by mikey_dragon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:21 pm

Anyway I should I add that I wouldn't be disheartened if Tips gets the nod as we know he's a good player, it's just my view that Navidi and Jenkins deserve to be there although it's unlikely that both will be there.

by LordDowlais Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:38 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Me personally however, Morairty and Warburton to cover No.8

Why ? We have specialists no.8's in Wales. So you would rather us play flankers at 8 because you think they are better than somebody who's position it is to play number 8 ? If we took that attitude all the time, we would never have seen players like Coombs playing for Wales.

I would rather see a back row of Warburton at 7. Lydiate at 6 and Baker at 8. Playing in their proper positions.

by wayne Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:40 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
wayne wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
chris_501 wrote:What do people think to a back row of

6. Moriarty
7. Warburton
8. Navidi?

Decent - you could swap Warburton and Navidi around I guess. I'm assuming Ellis Jenkins would be on your bench too?
Mikey I've been mightily entertained for a while now with your pushing for Ellis Jenkins for this squad, why would you pick 2 out of 3 of a back row for the National Team when they were totally outplayed by an Ospreys back row of 6) Cracknell, 7) King (named MOTM by the broadcasters) and (that well known 8) Dan Lydiate, on Judgement Day, it was helped by the powder puff WRUburton going off early (yet again).
Let me say that NOT ONE Blues back row player would get in our team in the type of game we are playing ATM. It might suit the game of the captain if Gatlandball is being used, you really need to open your eyes and actually watch what Tipuric does in a game. He has a far superior skill set than probably anybody else within Welsh Rugby and has for quite a while.

Where-as NOT ONE of your back-row would get into the Blues team with the way they're playing . I don't expect them to pick all three of Warbs, Navidi and Jenkins but it is difficult to ignore the form of the latter two. I've championed Navidi for a while now. End of last season Jenkins was the best in Wales and it still looks that way. Not only does he manage to score tries he actually does what a flanker is supposed to do; make a lot of tackles, turnovers and be a strong carrier - so for me he's ahead of Tips and Cubby. I'm not really concerned as to what happened in a one-off game last year, I'm sure you're over your game against Ulster last season as well right?
I know some folk don't agree with me but I think Tips is just another overhyped Osprey. I haven't seen much of him this season but from what I've seen he actually does look a bit better than last season. Saying he has the best skill set in Welsh rugby is overstretching it by miles - the guy shows up on the wing and puts in a pass or scores in the corner - that's not amazing skills!

The trouble with your argument is, it doesn't matter what game between the Ospreys and Blues you'd like to examine since WRUburton and Tipuric came into the squad and what players are used, the Blues back row are shamed, but then again WRUburton isn't normally round for long, the same will happen in about 3 weeks time.

by mikey_dragon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:44 pm

You're just not listening LD and not for the first time either. I've written all I have to say about it back there and it seems you're the only one who's not able to comprehend it. All I can say is thank god you aren't picking the team because we'd end up with a load of off form players starting against some of the world's best Rolling Eyes

.

Not even sure what you're trying to say or compare with Coombes either, he's a now retired lock/No.6 who showed up well when Wales had a lock crisis. I'll just add this one to your stupid comment pile.

by wayne Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:47 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Anyway I should I add that I wouldn't be disheartened if Tips gets the nod as we know he's a good player, it's just my view that Navidi and Jenkins deserve to be there although it's unlikely that both will be there.

Let's look at it realistically, WRUburton, Tipuric, Moriarty are definites, Lydiate also if he is fit, Probably Turnball, and King, so how many will Gatland/Howley want for the squad probably one more, if he shows any form in the next few weeks I think it will be Cubby, as his form last season was exceptional.

by LordDowlais Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:47 pm

To be fair wayne, Ellis Jenkins has been playing well for Cardiff, although I would not throw him into international rugby yet, but there were questions being asked down at the CAP last season as to how Warburton should get his place back, there was even talk that he should be moved to 6 to allow Ellis to keep his spot. Given time Ellis Jenkins will emulate Sam Warburton, I can see Sam retiring early as his body just gives in as he gets older. But for me the pecking order for 7's in Wales is:-

Sam Warburton
Justin Tuperic
Ellis Jenkins
James Davies

by mikey_dragon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:48 pm

wayne wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
wayne wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
chris_501 wrote:What do people think to a back row of

6. Moriarty
7. Warburton
8. Navidi?

Decent - you could swap Warburton and Navidi around I guess. I'm assuming Ellis Jenkins would be on your bench too?
Mikey I've been mightily entertained for a while now with your pushing for Ellis Jenkins for this squad, why would you pick 2 out of 3 of a back row for the National Team when they were totally outplayed by an Ospreys back row of 6) Cracknell, 7) King (named MOTM by the broadcasters) and (that well known 8) Dan Lydiate, on Judgement Day, it was helped by the powder puff WRUburton going off early (yet again).
Let me say that NOT ONE Blues back row player would get in our team in the type of game we are playing ATM. It might suit the game of the captain if Gatlandball is being used, you really need to open your eyes and actually watch what Tipuric does in a game. He has a far superior skill set than probably anybody else within Welsh Rugby and has for quite a while.

Where-as NOT ONE of your back-row would get into the Blues team with the way they're playing . I don't expect them to pick all three of Warbs, Navidi and Jenkins but it is difficult to ignore the form of the latter two. I've championed Navidi for a while now. End of last season Jenkins was the best in Wales and it still looks that way. Not only does he manage to score tries he actually does what a flanker is supposed to do; make a lot of tackles, turnovers and be a strong carrier - so for me he's ahead of Tips and Cubby. I'm not really concerned as to what happened in a one-off game last year, I'm sure you're over your game against Ulster last season as well right?
I know some folk don't agree with me but I think Tips is just another overhyped Osprey. I haven't seen much of him this season but from what I've seen he actually does look a bit better than last season. Saying he has the best skill set in Welsh rugby is overstretching it by miles - the guy shows up on the wing and puts in a pass or scores in the corner - that's not amazing skills!
The trouble with your argument is, it doesn't matter what game between the Ospreys and Blues you'd like to examine since WRUburton and Tipuric came into the squad and what players are used, the Blues back row are shamed, but then again WRUburton isn't normally round for long, the same will happen in about 3 weeks time.

This seems to be your opinion, and if you're using it as if to say "the Ospreys back-row forwards should be selected ahead of the Blues ones because of it" then that doesn't really add up because you haven't taken into consideration every other game each team plays throughout the season. Besides that you wouldn't not select a player playing well because the team around him isn't as good, unless you're Andy Dowellais I guess. Let me add that I think Ospreys mostly beat the other welsh teams in the local derbies because I think they're much better drilled. I've been of this opinion for a while and I credit Gibbes with the work as well as your forwards - the pack have a really good engine on 'em.

by mikey_dragon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:51 pm

wayne wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Anyway I should I add that I wouldn't be disheartened if Tips gets the nod as we know he's a good player, it's just my view that Navidi and Jenkins deserve to be there although it's unlikely that both will be there.
Let's look at it realistically, WRUburton, Tipuric, Moriarty are definites, Lydiate also if he is fit, Probably Turnball, and King, so how many will Gatland/Howley want for the squad probably one more, if he shows any form in the next few weeks I think it will be Cubby, as his form last season was exceptional.

It's very hard to tell what's going through the coaches minds but I think you're right about the definites and Lydiate. Hopefully the rest aren't Turnbull, King or Cubby - not good enough in my view. Cubby is alright but we have better 7's, some of them also being able to give us back-row versatility.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:55 pm

First off the squad isn't picked on one game alone so just using judgement day as a guideline isn't the best.

We have more than our share of 7s but not many out and out 6s or 8s.

At 6 we have Lydiate and Moriarty

At 8 we have Faletau and ????

My choice at 8 for the Autumn would be Moriarty but that leaves a hole at 6 as Lydiate hasn't played yet and not sure when he's back (any news Wayne)?

Not convinced by Sam at 6 and Navidi has never really figured under Gatland/Howley and I just don't rate King at all but that's my opinion.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Me personally however, Morairty and Warburton to cover No.8

Why ? We have specialists no.8's in Wales. So you would rather us play flankers at 8 because you think they are better than somebody who's position it is to play number 8 ? If we took that attitude all the time, we would never have seen players like Coombs playing for Wales.

I would rather see a back row of Warburton at 7. Lydiate at 6 and Baker at 8. Playing in their proper positions.

Do we really?

Baker is being kept out by Adron.

Navidi is playing for Blues (not a specialist) or Nick Williams.

Barclay or McCloed has played there for the Scarlets so far.

Ed Jackson playing there fur us at the Dragons.

by wayne Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:11 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
wayne wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Anyway I should I add that I wouldn't be disheartened if Tips gets the nod as we know he's a good player, it's just my view that Navidi and Jenkins deserve to be there although it's unlikely that both will be there.
Let's look at it realistically, WRUburton, Tipuric, Moriarty are definites, Lydiate also if he is fit, Probably Turnball, and King, so how many will Gatland/Howley want for the squad probably one more, if he shows any form in the next few weeks I think it will be Cubby, as his form last season was exceptional.

It's very hard to tell what's going through the coaches minds but I think you're right about the definites and Lydiate. Hopefully the rest aren't Turnbull, King or Cubby - not good enough in my view. Cubby is alright but we have better 7's, some of them also being able to give us back-row versatility.

Come on Mikey, there wasn't a better 7 over the ball than Cubby the whole of last season (yes better than Tipuric) and his passing is good, why would you need more versatility when every other player mentioned can cover other positions adequately. EG I mentioned King at 7 on JD he regularly plays 6 and on Saturday after Ardron went off he went to 8 very early (first 10 minutes) and Tandy in his post match PC commended 2 players one of which is King, he is an extremely talented and efficient player and as Gatland had him in the NZ squad I can't see him gone.

by wayne Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:19 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:First off the squad isn't picked on one game alone so just using judgement day as a guideline isn't the best.

We have more than our share of 7s but not many out and out 6s or 8s.

At 6 we have Lydiate and Moriarty

At 8 we have Faletau and ????

My choice at 8 for the Autumn would be Moriarty but that leaves a hole at 6 as Lydiate hasn't played yet and not sure when he's back (any news Wayne)?

Not convinced by Sam at 6 and Navidi has never really figured under Gatland/Howley and I just don't rate King at all but that's my opinion.

I can agree with some of that BW, you'll know where we disagree, as for Lydiate he's still out injured, but I know I've seen him in the prematch sessions when we have interviews with a couple of players, I think it will be touch and go for TW.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:25 pm

I did hear mid to end of October as possible return date so he's out of the AIs.

I know we wont agree on King but I wouldn't be surprised if he got the nod at 6 with Moriarty at 8 or other way round maybe.

I would like to see Navidi given a crack but like said he hasn't really figured under this regime.

As for 7s we have Warburton, Tipuric, Jenkins and Davies in that order I reckon and I'd be happy with any of them starting. However I think for us to get the best out of Tipuric and Davies we have to change our style of play.

by wayne Mon 19 Sep 2016, 7:05 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I did hear mid to end of October as possible return date so he's out of the AIs.

I know we wont agree on King but I wouldn't be surprised if he got the nod at 6 with Moriarty at 8 or other way round maybe.

I would like to see Navidi given a crack but like said he hasn't really figured under this regime.

As for 7s we have Warburton, Tipuric, Jenkins and Davies in that order I reckon and I'd be happy with any of them starting. However I think for us to get the best out of Tipuric and Davies we have to change our style of play.

BW, the latest I can find on Dan L on our website is an injury update on July 26th, when it said he is going into the next stage of his pre season work at the end of which Chris Towers the Ospreys head honcho for medicals, said there would be a return to play time issued, let me say in the same update it was mentioned James King was also recovering from a neck injury sustained out in NZ, and he is back. What to me is very upsetting is in the last week or so Rob McCusker has extended his short term contract until seasons end, we are also missing Sam Underhill could either of the injured endured a relapse, I really hope not.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:17 am

wayne wrote:
Come on Mikey, there wasn't a better 7 over the ball than Cubby the whole of last season (yes better than Tipuric) and his passing is good, why would you need more versatility when every other player mentioned can cover other positions adequately. EG I mentioned King at 7 on JD he regularly plays 6 and on Saturday after Ardron went off he went to 8 very early (first 10 minutes) and Tandy in his post match PC commended 2 players one of which is King, he is an extremely talented and efficient player and as Gatland had him in the NZ squad I can't see him gone.

I wouldn't know, but are there some stats that show this? I certainly think he was the top 7 for a while last season and he was often a shining light in a poor performing team, but even then I thought people were really overhyping him. The scrum V panel are just as bad, if not the worst. I think they've only just stopped mentioning his silver medal... I didn't like his attitude regarding that either, as if it was his divine right to be thrust into the team but said he was glad he didn't get picked so he could go to the Olympics. In the latter half of the season Ellis Jenkins got more game time and established himself as the top 7 in Wales IMO, and has continued this season. I think he's superior to Cubby in every aspect, who will have to wait longer as we have a few good open-sides playing in Wales.
I like King for the Ospreys but he never seems to be able to do it for Wales. Like I've alluded to with some other players I think King might be one of those guys who can only play well in a team playing to a particular style, rather than fit into any team like a really good player can. As much as I want Wales to play more like the Blues I don't think it will happen. I thought King was very poor in NZ, granted we were awful across the board when we faced Chiefs but he was handed the tryline on a plate and still couldn't score.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:26 am

I'm one of the guilty parties in hyping up James Davies, but from what I've seen of him he could be one hell of a player. I haven't seen as much of Ellis Jenkins so I'm no well placed to comment, but Wales are looking pretty well stocked at 7 when you add in Warburton and Tipuric to the mix.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:29 am

Shame nobody mentions Cudd, who was playing better than Cubby over a longer period Wink

. I think he's missed his ticket now anyway, and might lose his Dragons starting place permanently to Ollie Griffiths who is another good prospect.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 1:59 pm

So on recent form it seems that Scott Andrews is the only available TH Shocked

.

by munkian Tue 20 Sep 2016, 2:13 pm

Cudd probably too small for an International flanker but hes a very solid club player.

I think Sanjay would be wasted on the wing - nailed on at 15 but then Im not coach.

Halfpenny on the bench maybe with Amos and North on the wings.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:12 pm

munkian wrote:Cudd probably too small for an International flanker but hes a very solid club player.

I think Sanjay would be wasted on the wing - nailed on at 15 but then Im not coach.

Halfpenny on the bench maybe with Amos and North on the wings.

If he's too small then so is Cubby who is smaller - you're not the first one to put forward this bonkers perspective BTW so don't worry too much.

Yeah I would agree with that, but I think the coaches are more likely to put Sanjay on the wing as he's played there more than Halfpenny.

by offload Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:23 pm

As is the norm when we approach the international season, a lot of names get thrown around on here. Gatland may not be "in charge" but I'll bet my house we'll see the same conservative selection approach with a minimum of forced changes.

This is not a bad thing because we have so little depth of any quality. Just because you play in a particular position for an average team in a poor league, doesn't make you a test level player. Some of the suggested names in this thread are really silly.

We have a weak front row but if everyone is fit the best players pick themselves. Same for the second row. If neither Lydiate and Faletau are fit Howley will go with what he knows and I suspect Tipuric, Moriarty and Warbuton will be selected. Webb will partner Biggar and he will pick Roberts and JD in the centre. Williams, North and Halfpenny will probably make the back three.

Form will play little part in selection. Howley will pick players who have done it before (even though in truth they may not have done it for a while). There are few players putting their hands up anyway! Certainly not in problem positions like 2,8,12,13,14.

Looking at the games so far in the Rugby Championship we probably won't be good enough to beat Australia. We may have a chance against SA and Argentina, provided ou best stay fit. I think we'll do well to win 2 out of 4. We'll be lucky to win any if we pick a team full of Bakers, Kings and Becks.

by munkian Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:26 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
munkian wrote:Cudd probably too small for an International flanker but hes a very solid club player.

I think Sanjay would be wasted on the wing - nailed on at 15 but then Im not coach.

Halfpenny on the bench maybe with Amos and North on the wings.

If he's too small then so is Cubby who is smaller - you're not the first one to put forward this bonkers perspective BTW so don't worry too much.

Yeah I would agree with that, but I think the coaches are more likely to put Sanjay on the wing as he's played there more than Halfpenny.

Its from Gatland's perspective and I never lose sleep over any of your opinions. And Cudd still has less physical mass than Cubby no matter what your perspective.

Do you mean played there more recently than Halfpenny or in general ? As I doubt the latter is true.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:34 pm

munkian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
munkian wrote:Cudd probably too small for an International flanker but hes a very solid club player.

I think Sanjay would be wasted on the wing - nailed on at 15 but then Im not coach.

Halfpenny on the bench maybe with Amos and North on the wings.

If he's too small then so is Cubby who is smaller - you're not the first one to put forward this bonkers perspective BTW so don't worry too much.

Yeah I would agree with that, but I think the coaches are more likely to put Sanjay on the wing as he's played there more than Halfpenny.

Its from Gatland's perspective and I never lose sleep over any of your opinions. And Cudd still has less physical mass than Cubby no matter what your perspective.

Do you mean played there more recently than Halfpenny or in general ? As I doubt the latter is true.

He's lighter, so that's incorrect.

More often and more recently he has played on the wing (as far as I'm aware). He never played 15 until Nigel Davies was forced to put him through injury against Northampton and he had a stormer. Since end of 2011 Halfpenny has been at 15 and Williams would mostly be on the wing - I think Williams was also shifted to the wing against NZ.

by munkian Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:36 pm

Cubby

Height: 1.87 m
Weight: 93 kg

Cudd

Height: 1.83 m
Weight: 92 kg

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:48 pm

munkian wrote:Cubby

Height: 1.87 m
Weight: 93 kg

Cudd

Height: 1.83 m
Weight: 92 kg

You should be able to tell both of these are off just by looking at the players? Headscratch

Cubby is under 6 feet, so I'm wondering if these have been exaggerated. Both players look the same height, maybe Cubby having half an inch on Cudd but is lighter.

Cubby - 1.87m and 93kg: http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/teams/first-team-Players.php?PlayId=98390

Cudd - 1.80m and 96kg: http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/Teams/Player/Dragons/137882/nic-cudd/

by munkian Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:50 pm

I should be able to tell if a person is half an inch smaller by seeing them from the terraces or on TV ? Riight.

You really are a chore.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:52 pm

munkian wrote:I should be able to tell if a person is half an inch smaller by seeing them from the terraces or on TV ? Riight.

You really are a chore.

Compare them to your own height or the height of other players? It's not difficult is it. I think you're upset because I just proved you to be incorrect. One is too small and the other isn't, despite the small one being bigger than the other laughing

dumbest argument ever put forward.

by munkian Tue 20 Sep 2016, 3:56 pm

Yes, you've got me, I'm absolutely mortified.

You really are an intellectual colossus and I'm dwarfed by your sporting knowledge.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:12 pm

munkian wrote:Yes, you've got me, I'm absolutely mortified.

You really are an intellectual colossus and I'm dwarfed by your sporting knowledge.

I already knew, but thanks for letting everyone else know Wink

.

Today's lesson boys and girls - Wikipedia is not your best friend, it's your worst enemy!

by LordDowlais Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:44 pm

mikey making friends again.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:46 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey making friends again.

Age: 39

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:48 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey making friends again.

606v2's Mr Agreeable.

by LordDowlais Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:50 pm

It's the whole, it's not me, it's everybody else attitude that you take on here mikey. Honestly, it's getting a little boring.

Please take some advice.People have opinions, you should take that into account before you get all bolshie on here all the time. thumbsup

by LordDowlais Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:51 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:

mikey making friends again.

606v2's Mr Agreeable.

How are you today LP.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:55 pm

offload wrote:As is the norm when we approach the international season, a lot of names get thrown around on here. Gatland may not be "in charge" but I'll bet my house we'll see the same conservative selection approach with a minimum of forced changes.

This is not a bad thing because we have so little depth of any quality. Just because you play in a particular position for an average team in a poor league, doesn't make you a test level player. Some of the suggested names in this thread are really silly.

We have a weak front row but if everyone is fit the best players pick themselves. Same for the second row. If neither Lydiate and Faletau are fit Howley will go with what he knows and I suspect Tipuric, Moriarty and Warbuton will be selected. Webb will partner Biggar and he will pick Roberts and JD in the centre. Williams, North and Halfpenny will probably make the back three.

Form will play little part in selection. Howley will pick players who have done it before (even though in truth they may not have done it for a while). There are few players putting their hands up anyway! Certainly not in problem positions like 2,8,12,13,14.

Looking at the games so far in the Rugby Championship we probably won't be good enough to beat Australia. We may have a chance against SA and Argentina, provided ou best stay fit. I think we'll do well to win 2 out of 4. We'll be lucky to win any if we pick a team full of Bakers, Kings and Becks.

I meant to reply to this sooner, but idiots, well one idiot keeps dragging it off topic. I think you might be right about form not really playing a part but I'm still hoping that won't be the case. I'm predicting us to lose all four, that includes Japan. Hope I'm wrong, for once.

Do you think 12,13,14 is a problem position? There's a few putting their hand up but of course a lot can change.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 4:57 pm

LordDowlais wrote:It's the whole, it's not me, it's everybody else attitude that you take on here mikey. Honestly, it's getting a little boring.

Please take some advice.People have opinions, you should take that into account before you get all bolshie on here all the time.

FFS

- I really can't stand you on here. If you can't see the irony then I'm convinced you have learning difficulties. I'm not sure why you're talking about opinions? I accept people have them but I've not been wrong, unless you care to point out where.

by offload Tue 20 Sep 2016, 5:15 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
offload wrote:As is the norm when we approach the international season, a lot of names get thrown around on here. Gatland may not be "in charge" but I'll bet my house we'll see the same conservative selection approach with a minimum of forced changes.

This is not a bad thing because we have so little depth of any quality. Just because you play in a particular position for an average team in a poor league, doesn't make you a test level player. Some of the suggested names in this thread are really silly.

We have a weak front row but if everyone is fit the best players pick themselves. Same for the second row. If neither Lydiate and Faletau are fit Howley will go with what he knows and I suspect Tipuric, Moriarty and Warbuton will be selected. Webb will partner Biggar and he will pick Roberts and JD in the centre. Williams, North and Halfpenny will probably make the back three.

Form will play little part in selection. Howley will pick players who have done it before (even though in truth they may not have done it for a while). There are few players putting their hands up anyway! Certainly not in problem positions like 2,8,12,13,14.

Looking at the games so far in the Rugby Championship we probably won't be good enough to beat Australia. We may have a chance against SA and Argentina, provided ou best stay fit. I think we'll do well to win 2 out of 4. We'll be lucky to win any if we pick a team full of Bakers, Kings and Becks.

I meant to reply to this sooner, but idiots, well one idiot keeps dragging it off topic. I think you might be right about form not really playing a part but I'm still hoping that won't be the case. I'm predicting us to lose all four, that includes Japan. Hope I'm wrong, for once.

Do you think 12,13,14 is a problem position? There's a few putting their hand up but of course a lot can change.

Well, I don't think I've seen a quality performance from our mid-field for a while. Roberts is not playing well (I seen him twice for Quins) and from what I've seen of JD and S. Williams they are no better. Williams was awful on the weekend. I don't see two quality centres with power, defence and all around skill.

Wing is only a problem if 1/2p, Williams and North aren't the back three. I don't rate Cuthbert, James or Amos.

As I said I fully expect to see Roberts and JD in the centre (Williams on the bench) continuing to once again create nothing in attack.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 20 Sep 2016, 5:19 pm

Cardiff Blues backs coach Matt Sherratt will work with Wales for the autumn internationals.

Rob Howley, Wales' usual backs coach, has been temporarily promoted to head coach as Warren Gatland steps down from his Wales role to take charge of the British and Irish Lions.

Sherratt, 40, will combine his new role with his Cardiff Blues duties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37422817

by offload Tue 20 Sep 2016, 5:24 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Cardiff Blues backs coach Matt Sherratt will work with Wales for the autumn internationals.

Rob Howley, Wales' usual backs coach, has been temporarily promoted to head coach as Warren Gatland steps down from his Wales role to take charge of the British and Irish Lions.

Sherratt, 40, will combine his new role with his Cardiff Blues duties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37422817

I know nothing about Sherratt, but I'll go out on a limb and suggest he'll do a lot better than Howley. Yahoo

by Guest Tue 20 Sep 2016, 5:37 pm

Reading this is nothing short of embarrassing.

As if I'm having to trudge through the same nonsense and paranoia regarding the selective use of statistics for James Davies and Nic Cudd as I did a year ago. The quality on these boards is seriously variable, but there's one poster in particular who is like a dog dragging his unwashed behind all over the carpet, ruining it for everyone else.

LD is right regarding moving players out of position simply to fit them in. Whilst I disagree and think Hook looked best in the centre, he was atrocious at 15. Roberts has been a success at 12, but it's different changing a player's position early in their career than asking an experienced player to plug a gap when there is the option of blooding a new player this far out from a WC (particularly when they'll then select the likes of Howells when he's playing semi-pro rugby!).

Australia and South Africa seem to be- if not there for the taking- beatable. I expect them to be harder to beat then they werein the Summer, purely as a result of the experience of the Summer Tours and Rugby Championship will have given the teams in the rebuilding process after the WC, but also because they'll tighten things up in their tactical approach coming to the NH.

I'd love for this to be the year that Wales finally get the Australian monkey off their back, but I cannot see it. I think Australia could really struggle up in the NH, but still beat Wales, purely through history and the historic fear I think the Welsh players will bring into the game, particularly first up as the first game back having had what must have been a bit of a reality check down in NZ (the last Test and midweek game must still be getting a few of the players down having had a good WC, and decent 6N). I think South Africa is the more likely game for Wales to win, particularly if Wales can keep their forward pack and set piece as robust as possible. I think we could see quite an open game between the two, with Jantjes and the new SA approach being to play a bit more with the ball in between the typical arm wrestle up front, and being happy to respond in kind.

Still unsure over selection, we are only 3 games into the season let's not forget. No-one really putting a hand up to break into the team other than the tried and tested at the moment, other than perhaps Sam Davies, helped in no small part to Rhys Priestland's (presumed) ineligibility. I have to admit I think Ben John has the attributes that wouldn't look out of place at Test level. What I doubt is his physicality and the fact that he's not really been tested to start week in week out, and has looked good too often when coming off the bench, and late on in games.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 6:33 pm

offload wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
offload wrote:As is the norm when we approach the international season, a lot of names get thrown around on here. Gatland may not be "in charge" but I'll bet my house we'll see the same conservative selection approach with a minimum of forced changes.

This is not a bad thing because we have so little depth of any quality. Just because you play in a particular position for an average team in a poor league, doesn't make you a test level player. Some of the suggested names in this thread are really silly.

We have a weak front row but if everyone is fit the best players pick themselves. Same for the second row. If neither Lydiate and Faletau are fit Howley will go with what he knows and I suspect Tipuric, Moriarty and Warbuton will be selected. Webb will partner Biggar and he will pick Roberts and JD in the centre. Williams, North and Halfpenny will probably make the back three.

Form will play little part in selection. Howley will pick players who have done it before (even though in truth they may not have done it for a while). There are few players putting their hands up anyway! Certainly not in problem positions like 2,8,12,13,14.

Looking at the games so far in the Rugby Championship we probably won't be good enough to beat Australia. We may have a chance against SA and Argentina, provided ou best stay fit. I think we'll do well to win 2 out of 4. We'll be lucky to win any if we pick a team full of Bakers, Kings and Becks.

I meant to reply to this sooner, but idiots, well one idiot keeps dragging it off topic. I think you might be right about form not really playing a part but I'm still hoping that won't be the case. I'm predicting us to lose all four, that includes Japan. Hope I'm wrong, for once.

Do you think 12,13,14 is a problem position? There's a few putting their hand up but of course a lot can change.

Well, I don't think I've seen a quality performance from our mid-field for a while. Roberts is not playing well (I seen him twice for Quins) and from what I've seen of JD and S. Williams they are no better. Williams was awful on the weekend. I don't see two quality centres with power, defence and all around skill.

Wing is only a problem if 1/2p, Williams and North aren't the back three. I don't rate Cuthbert, James or Amos.

As I said I fully expect to see Roberts and JD in the centre (Williams on the bench) continuing to once again create nothing in attack.

You're not wrong there. The Scarlets boys seem like they've forgotten how to pass and tackle.

That's likely to be the back 3. In all fairness James and Cuthbert are playing well but are very limited. If we play like Cardiff they'd flourish...

I'd like to see Allen and Morgan involved in the midfield. I wouldn't complain if Beck was called up - hard to tell if he picks up where he left off given he's injured so often.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 6:36 pm

If Sherratt can get the Wales back line running like the Blues then he's done a tremendous job already - also willing to assume he's a step up on Howley. Offload that might be also be an indication that more Cardiff wingers than you'd have hoped for will feature...

by offload Tue 20 Sep 2016, 7:07 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:If Sherratt can get the Wales back line running like the Blues then he's done a tremendous job already - also willing to assume he's a step up on Howley. Offload that might be also be an indication that more Cardiff wingers than you'd have hoped for will feature...

It's not that I'm hoping they won't feature, I'm just not convinced they are good enough. If they get called up and play well, I'll be the first to congratulate them.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:00 pm

Btw, the following is for those still struggling: http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/squads_wales_sevens.php?player=115882&includeref=dynamic

More proof that I was 100% spot on in saying that the Cudd vs Cubby too small debate is a flawed one - I've now posted an abundance of evidence to prove it. I'm still surprised that some people can't accept this.

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:07 pm

Cubby is the same weight here: http://en.espn.co.uk/wales/rugby/player/205129.html - so that's several sources which state he's smaller than Cudd (according to Dragons site as well as ESPN).

by mikey_dragon Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:10 pm

Another source: http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/games/player_archive.php?player=94613&includeref=dynamic

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