Wales thread continued - 2017/18 season

[mikey_dragon]

First topic message reminder :

2017/2018 season results (full fixture list posted below).

Wales 21 - 29 Australia
Wales 13 - 6 Georgia
Wales 18 - 33 New Zealand
Wales 24 - 22 South Africa

Wales 2018 6N Squad:
Forwards: Rob Evans (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, capt), James Davies (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).

Backs: Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Bath), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors), Hallam Amos (Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Steff Evans (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Saracens).

Faletau, Biggar expected to be available later on in the tournament. Amos, L Williams perhaps a little sooner.

Call-ups to cover injuries, etc.
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I thought we'd start with the Autumn series. Gatland the Great is set to return and shake things up after another disappointing season underneath the Howler and his pal McBryde. The fixtures for this series are as follows:

November 2017
Sat 11th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   Australia  
Sat 18th Nov 17 14:30
Wales   v   Georgia
Sat 25th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   New Zealand
December 2017
Sat 2nd Dec 17 14:30
Wales   v   South Africa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there's no time like now so why not. Last year was a bit disappointing, topped off with an unsuccessful tour to NZ (as expected). Whilst I'm hoping for better this season my expectations are low as we have Howler and some other amateurs in charge who got the job because they were mates with Gatland and others in the WRU.

AI's
Wales V Australia 05/11/2016
8 - 32
Wales V Argentina 12/11/2016
24 - 20
Wales V Japan 19/11/2016
33 - 30
Wales V South Africa 26/11/2016
27 - 13

6 Nations
Italy V Wales 05/02/2017
7 - 33
Wales V England 11/02/2017
16 - 21
Scotland V Wales 25/02/2017
29 - 13
Wales V Ireland 10/03/2017
22 - 9
France V Wales 18/03/2017
20 -18

Very tough AI series but a kind start in the 6N. So far this season Blues and Ospreys look good, but how many of their players will be starters for Wales? Cuthbert is starting to look like his old self and if this continues he could come back into the team. Tomos Williams looks like a good player and if he also continues in this vein then might he take advantage of Gareth Davies' supposed rustiness? It's still early days but going by what I've seen and the reports I've read I would like to see a new centre partnership and also perhaps see our old back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny reinstated - although a lot could happen between now and November. With Faletau out I think we can all guess who the wildcards will be, but who does that leave to play at No.8 - possibly Warburton with Ellis Jenkins at 7? What changes (if any) would you like to see? Keep it sensible please.

WALES 2016 UNDER ARMOUR SERIES SQUAD
Prop Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues) (12 Caps) Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (14 Caps) Rhys Gill (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps) Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (126 Caps) Samson Lee (Scarlets) (28 Caps) Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
Hooker Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) (24 Caps) Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) (3 Caps) Ken Owens (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
Second Row Jake Ball (Scarlets) (20 Caps) Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby) (68 Caps) Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (56 Caps) Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (102 Caps) Rory Thornton (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Back Row Dan Baker (Ospreys) (3 Caps) Taulupe Faletau* (Bath Rugby) (61 Caps) James King (Ospreys) (8 Caps) Dan Lydiate (Ospreys) (57 Caps) Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (9 Caps) Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (43 Caps) Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues) (67 Caps)
Scrum Half Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (17 Caps) Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (22 Caps) Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) (27 Caps)
Fly Half Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) (8 Caps) Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (48 Caps) Sam Davies (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Centre Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (56 Caps) Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons) (3 Caps) Jamie Roberts* (Harlequins) (83 Caps) Scott Williams (Scarlets) (38 Caps)
Wing/Full Back Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons) (10 Caps) Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (42 Caps) Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (62 Caps) George North* (Northampton Saints) (62 Caps) Liam Williams (Scarlets) (35 Caps) * Denotes Senior Player Selection Policy wildcard selection.
Ospreys wing Keelan Giles, Cardiff Blues full-back Rhun Williams and Dragons pair Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will train with the Wales squad.  

June summer tour
Tonga 6 - 24 Wales
Samoa 17 - 19 Wales

[Guest]

Don't you think Usk is picturesque, TightHEAD?  

It will do for now. Nice pubs and not too far of the beaten track (M4), but far enough.

It's nowhere near the M4!

[LordDowlais]

Don't you think Usk is picturesque, TightHEAD?  

It will do for now. Nice pubs and not too far of the beaten track (M4), but far enough.

It's nowhere near the M4!

BUSTED.

[BamBam]

Really? Assuming there's only one place called Usk, its 17 mins from the M4, that is certainly "not far" in my book

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Usk/M4,+Port+Talbot+SA13/@51.6305178,-2.9899283,12z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x4871c118b764ba9f:0x2b773c1d5b9e032f!2m2!1d-2.903404!2d51.703533!1m5!1m1!1s0x4871717d5d22edaf:0xa5aa2c42770e30bd!2m2!1d-2.9270317!2d51.6019767

[Guest]

Really? Assuming there's only one place called Usk, its 17 mins from the M4, that is certainly "not far" in my book

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Usk/M4,+Port+Talbot+SA13/@51.6305178,-2.9899283,12z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x4871c118b764ba9f:0x2b773c1d5b9e032f!2m2!1d-2.903404!2d51.703533!1m5!1m1!1s0x4871717d5d22edaf:0xa5aa2c42770e30bd!2m2!1d-2.9270317!2d51.6019767

It's probably because I live in Newport and the M4 goes right through the middle (A gift and a curse! ) so Usk, which is classed as rural, seems far from the M4 in comparison. What you're used to I suppose.

I have friends who moved from Newport to Usk and complain how long it takes them to get to the motorway in the morning and in to work now (which they were warned about).

[TightHEAD]

Don't you think Usk is picturesque, TightHEAD?  

It will do for now. Nice pubs and not too far of the beaten track (M4), but far enough.

It's nowhere near the M4!

It is in a car.

[TightHEAD]

Really? Assuming there's only one place called Usk, its 17 mins from the M4, that is certainly "not far" in my book

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Usk/M4,+Port+Talbot+SA13/@51.6305178,-2.9899283,12z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x4871c118b764ba9f:0x2b773c1d5b9e032f!2m2!1d-2.903404!2d51.703533!1m5!1m1!1s0x4871717d5d22edaf:0xa5aa2c42770e30bd!2m2!1d-2.9270317!2d51.6019767

12mins in my car Vroooooooommmmmmm.......................

[TightHEAD]

What are you friends called Oracle? I might know them.



9miles to M4 isn't far chaps, not when you are used to commuting to Richmond a few times a week.

[TightHEAD]

[No 7&1/2]

People don't believe you after Walter mitty trip to new Zealand?

[TightHEAD]

Ha you're just jealous.

[RiscaGame]

Walter Mitty. Loving your work

[TightHEAD]

I fancy Wales to turn Ireland over in Dublin.

I guess Biggar, Williams and 1/2p will be back?

[Guest]

What changes do you think we should make for the Ireland game? I’m wondering whether injury and sickness returnees should go straight into the team or let these current guys keep the shirt? I’d keep the same forward pack. Pretty happy with how they’re going. In the backs though I think I’d bring Halfpenny straight back in. What about Biggar though? Does he play too deep for the type of game we’re trying to play? Or stay with a Patchell? One good game and one not so good. Not sure we should ditch him yet? North in or keep him on the bench? What about Liam W?

My fear is that if we bring back Biggar, North, Halfpenny, Liam W all at once we could end up with pretty much the stagnant Gatlandball back line of recent seasons. Tempted to go with the same back line as against Scotland (so, adding 1/2p back in) to give them another run, with North, Liam W and Biggar on the bench. Or is that too many backs with Aled Davies? If so, just Liam to cover wing and FB? And what about Anscombe as he was pretty good when he moved to 10.

[TightHEAD]

I miss Gatlandball, I'd bring Dr Roberts back and start Bigger, 1/2p and Liam on the wing

The kiwi Parkes in the centre is nothing special, Roberts is still a class act.

[Gwlad]

I miss  Gatlandball, I'd bring Dr Roberts back and start Bigger, 1/2p and Liam on the wing

The kiwi Parkes in the centre is nothing special, Roberts is still a class act.

Likewise why don't you bring burgess back for England

[TightHEAD]

Good player Sam, but I think Teo is a better fit, better hands.

Roberts is a machine and brings a ton of class and experience to the team.

[mikey_dragon]

I think Gatland will start Halfpenny and North. Biggar on the bench with hopefully Tomos Williams, with the final backs spot to be taken by one of Anscombe or Liam Williams. Faletau is back too right? I think we really need him to slot back in. Moriarty seems to have been a little quiet while the rest of the forward pack are very lively.

This time next year we could actually have a good First and Second XV.

[Gwlad]

Yet again no one gets the point. Hilarious really already written off we were totally discarded until we thrashed Scotland who at last have been shown up as the Emperor with no kilt. While everyone else are fielding their majority First XV bar a couple injuries Wales have been decimated of all their Lions - because they delivered a draw in NZ and are paying the price -Meanwhile Gats is fielding 2nd, 3rd and even 4th choice players, hammering Scots and pushing the English into the corner that reveals them for what they rally are which is a machine which can easily be out played because it is so rigid were it not for Farrell. If Wales win in 2 weeks in my opinion they have every chance of winning this tourney. I believe we will win and then Ireland will beat England; our BPs and Italy try fest will be critical. When Wales get their 8 or so first choice players back they will be a force with significant strength in depth for 2019. Aside from 4 and 9 we now have at least 2 quality players in each position and a developing style redolent of 2005.

Its a genuinely experienced squad with depth:
Evans, Jones
Owens, Dee
Lee, Francis
AWJ, Hill Davies Ball
Shingler, Lydiate
Navidi, Tipuric, Warburton
Faletau, Moriarty
Davies
Bigger, Anscombe, Owen
North, Adams
Parkes, Roberts,
Williams, JD2, Watkin
Evans, Amos, Liam
Half, Patchell

[George Carlin]

Yet again no one gets the point. Hilarious really already written off we were totally discarded until we thrashed Scotland who at last have been shown up as the Emperor with no kilt.

but also, obviously .

[mid_gen]

Players missing aside, I don't see how Gatlandball has gone away. The game plan is still to be fitter and strong and throw a blitz defence at the opposition until they crack. With ball in hand there's still very little in the way of creative threat.

Italy have played the two best defensive sides in the championship (England and Ireland) and created 5 tries. Wales have only managed 4 and all of them against a Scottish side that offered them up on a silver platter.

[rapidsnowman]

I believe we will win and then Ireland will beat England;

I can see that happening too.

As an Ireland supporter, the Welsh player I don't want to see back for Ireland v Wales is Liam Williams.

[Guest]

Players missing aside, I don't see how Gatlandball has gone away. The game plan is still to be fitter and strong and throw a blitz defence at the opposition until they crack. With ball in hand there's still very little in the way of creative threat.

Italy have played the two best defensive sides in the championship (England and Ireland) and created 5 tries. Wales have only managed 4 and all of them against a Scottish side that offered them up on a silver platter.

Suggests they aren't the best defensive sides in the Championship!!!

Just to add, don't forget Wales just played the best side in the world, away from home. It was never going to be easy to score tries. But saying that, the best side in the world were limited to 12 points themselves when they average 30+ at home. So Wales have a lot to offer defensively too! I think we saw the attacking threat v Scotland. But vs England it was an arm wrestle (unfortunately. We all know that's how 6 nations games go sometimes - see France v Ireland too). I agree we need to be better going forward though. We've got Ireland, France and Italy - will they all be as good as England?

[mid_gen]

Suggests they weren't the best defensive sides in the Championship!!!

Why didn't Wales manage to score against England then? Italy managed to create two nice tries, stretching us across the pitch until they created chances. Even if you want to count the fluffed shin over the line as a consolation, Italy have been the more potent attacking side.

It's not to say that Wales are a worse side btw. They patently are. Italy have brought some real nice attacking play this season, even if their defence, fitness and game management is still poor.

[Guest]

Suggests they weren't the best defensive sides in the Championship!!!

Why didn't Wales manage to score against England then? Italy managed to create two nice tries, stretching us across the pitch until they created chances. Even if you want to count the fluffed shin over the line as a consolation, Italy have been the more potent attacking side.

It's not to say that Wales are a worse side btw. They patently are. Italy have brought some real nice attacking play this season, even if their defence, fitness and game management is still poor.

Italy often score tries. I think other teams play fast and loose to try to build up a big score and leave themselves exposed a bit.

[SecretFly]

Players missing aside, I don't see how Gatlandball has gone away. The game plan is still to be fitter and strong and throw a blitz defence at the opposition until they crack. With ball in hand there's still very little in the way of creative threat.

Italy have played the two best defensive sides in the championship (England and Ireland) and created 5 tries. Wales have only managed 4 and all of them against a Scottish side that offered them up on a silver platter.

Suggests they aren't the best defensive sides in the Championship!!!  

Just to add, don't forget Wales just played the best side in the world, away from home.  It was never going to be easy to score tries.  But saying that, the best side in the world were limited to 12 points themselves when they average 30+ at home.  So Wales have a lot to offer defensively too!  I think we saw the attacking threat v Scotland.  But vs England it was an arm wrestle (unfortunately.  We all know that's how 6 nations games go sometimes - see France v Ireland too).  I agree we need to be better going forward though.  We've got Ireland, France and Italy - will they all be as good as England?

England are now the best side in the world? Eddie will be over the moon.
Yes, the England v Wales game became a slog of bodies trying to beat each other to death.... and there is merit in such exercises as we Irish always remind people . It looked a hard enough game but then it didn't look an exceptionally hard game - physically. I was wondering why either team weren't scoring a bit more because there was space there at times but neither side seemed to be in an expansive enough mood to use it.
So?........ How good is Ireland, France or Italy? Who knows, it all comes down to the day and the conditions, the refs and the errors, the yellow cards or red cards. But how good is Wales? And how good is England? If that was England being a cut above the rest, then the cut is a razor sharp slim one.

[munkian]

I think other teams are definitely catching up to England and Eddie knows it.

I think Wales have a fair chance to beat Ireland and Scotland should put everything into beating England at Murrayfield.

[TightHEAD]

I don't think England are too far ahead of anyone, but they have a habit of winning games. It's amazing what a bit of believe can do.

I hope Wales give Anscombe a start vs Italy as he deserves a go, against Ireland I'd go for Biggar if available.

[mikey_dragon]

With what I said I was looking ahead to the world cup. Our fixture list is ridiculous so at some point rotation will be necessary IMO. So just as an example first XV would be:

Halfpenny
L Williams
JD2
Parkes
Evans
Patchell
Davies

Faletau
Navidi
Shingler
AWJ (c)
Hill
Lee
Owens
Evans

Second XV:

Adams
North
S Williams
O Williams
Amos
Biggar
Webb

Moriarty
Warburton
Lydiate
B Davies
Ball
Francis
Dee
W Jones

Just hypothetical. Gatland likes to have a carrier and 2nd play-maker in the backs right now (Parkes is useful as he's both of those), so Roberts could just as easily be in, while the 2nd play-maker is Owen Williams. Another option is have that at 15 (Anscombe or Patchell I guess). Nicky Smith, Leon Brown, Scott Baldwin, Seb Davies, Adam Beard, Cubby Davies, Ellis Jenkins, Gareth Anscombe, Tomos Williams, Jonny Evans, Ashley Back, Owen Watkin, Tyler Morgan among the replacements for both XV's.

[Allty]

Mm no place for Tips !!!

[Newsilure]

Rather than spend a long period transitioning to a more rapid attack based style why don't we just go there immediately and pick players whose first thoughts are run and offload and give them the next two years to bed in. How about putting these out against Ireland(not expecting to win but to learn) -

Patchel
L Williams
Watkin
O Williams
Amos
Anscombe
Davies

Navidi
Tuperic
Shingler
Seb Davies
Hill
Leon Brown
Dee
Evans

Subs:

Smith
Ryan Elias
W Jones
James Davies
Ellis Jenkins (Shingler would have to cover 2cnd row)
Tomos Williams
Adams
Tyler Morgan

[Cyril]

Wales still have half a chance for the 6Ns this year. That side will be eaten up by Ireland’s attritional play and lose 21 6 - all penalties.

[Cyril]

If they play like they did against England and in the same style they’ll win 21 12 and score a couple of tries.

[mikey_dragon]

Mm no place for Tips  !!!

Yeah I kinda forgot about him, so he'd be among the replacements. I don't think he's as great as everyone makes out anyway and I'm not sure why people are still trying to shoehorn him into the side. Right now Navidi is better at just about everything... apart from standing on the wing.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Rather than spend a long period transitioning to a more rapid attack based style why don't we just go there immediately and pick players whose first thoughts are run and offload and give them the next two years to bed in.  How about putting these out against Ireland(not expecting to win but to learn) -

Patchel
L Williams
Watkin
O Williams
Amos
Anscombe
Davies

Navidi
Tuperic
Shingler
Seb Davies
Hill
Leon Brown
Dee
Evans

Subs:

Smith
Ryan Elias
W Jones
James Davies
Ellis Jenkins (Shingler would have to cover 2cnd row)
Tomos Williams
Adams
Tyler Morgan

No tighthead cover on the bench there, Wyn and Nicky are both looseheads

[mikey_dragon]

First time for everything, me agreeing with Dr Gwyn Jones!

"I want Patchell at 10 because he has played well for 18 months at 10 and [Gareth] Anscombe has played well for 25 minutes. I think Patchell deserves another chance."

Anyone else?

[mikey_dragon]

...and we're playing SA in Washington DC pre-Arg tour.

[mikey_dragon]

EPC final - 12th May.
Pro14 final - 26th May.
Wales summer tour, begins 2nd June versus South Africa in Washington DC, with the following 2 weeks against Argentina in Arg.

If the Scarlets boys are heavily involved in all of that, which I hope they are, they'll be knackered. The starting team for Italy had about 4 Scarlets players - one on debut with another 4 on the bench - so there's a chance we could see similar for SA. AWJ will be rested whilst there has been a hint at resting some others. I just hope we're going on tour with the intention of winning all 3 fixtures so with that we can't really afford to rest anyone else.

No.9 is becoming a bit of a crisis position for me. With Webb out all season it leaves us with one decent option in Davies who can be fairly erratic. Tomos Williams wasn't given a chance in the 6N and Gats became reluctant to use Aled after seeing how bad he is for the 100th time. I would call in Jonny Evans (if available) and Tomos Williams and actually give them some game time!

I'd like to fly to Washington for this game but not sure if I can as of yet.

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