England v South Africa, 12 November

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ENGLAND v SOUTH AFRICA
12 November 2016
14:30 GMT (UTC+0)
Twickenham Stadium, London

Live on Sky Sports 1

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

37 Played 37
12 Won 23
2 Drawn 2
23 Lost 12
592 Points 780

B. Recent Form

15 November 2014
Twickenham, London
28 – 31 to South Africa

24 November 2012
Twickenham, London
15 – 16 to South Africa

23 June 2012
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth
14 – 14 Draw

16 June 2012
Coca-Cola Park, Johannesburg
36 – 27 to South Africa

9 June 2012
Mr Price Kings Park, Durban
22 – 17 to South Africa

27 November 2010
Twickenham, London
11 – 21 to South Africa

C. Teams

ENGLAND 

Mike Brown (Harlequins); Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby); George Ford (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers); Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers); Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints); Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Billy Vunipola (Saracens).

Replacements: Jamie George (Saracens), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Danny Care (Harlequins), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby).

SOUTH AFRICA

Willie le Roux (Canon Eagles), Ruan Combrinck (Xerox Golden Lions), Francois Venter (Toyota Free State Cheetahs), Damian de Allende (DHL Western Province), JP Pietersen (Leicester Tigers), Patrick Lambie (Cell C Sharks), Rudy Paige (Vodacom Blue Bulls); Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), Adriaan Strauss (Vodacom Blue Bulls), Vincent Koch (Saracens), Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province), Lood de Jager (Vodacom Blue Bulls), Willem Alberts (Stade Francais), Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Western Province), Warren Whiteley (Docomo Red Hurricanes).

Replacements: Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Western Province), Steven Kitshoff (Bordeaux), Lourens Adriaanse (Cell C Sharks), Franco Mostert (Ricoh Black Rams), Nizaam Carr (DHL Western Province), Faf de Klerk (Xerox Golden Lions), Johan Goosen (Racing 92), Lionel Mapoe (Kubota Spears).

BamBam wrote:The Springbok team to face England at Twickenham:

15. Willie le Roux (Canon Eagles (Japan)), 39 caps, 45 points
14. Ruan Combrinck (Xerox Golden Lions), 4 caps, 13 points
13. Francois Venter (Toyota Free State Cheetahs), uncapped
12. Damian de Allende (DHL Western Province), 20 caps, 10 points
11. JP Pietersen (Leicester Tigers (England)), 69 caps, 120 points
10. Patrick Lambie (vice-captain) (Cell C Sharks), 53 caps, 137 points
9. Rudy Paige (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 5 caps, 0 points
8. Warren Whiteley (Docomo Red Hurricanes (Japan)), 12 caps, 15 points
7. Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Western Province), 17 caps, 15 points
6. Willem Alberts (Stade Francais (France)), 41 caps, 35 points
5. Lood de Jager (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 25 caps, 20 points
4. Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province), 53 caps, 10 points
3. Vincent Koch (Saracens (England)), 7 caps, 0 points
2. Adriaan Strauss (captain) (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 63 caps, 30 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), 84 caps, 10 points
Replacements
16. Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Western Province), 3 caps, 0 points
17. Steven Kitshoff (Bordeaux (France)), 7 caps, 0 points
18. Lourens Adriaanse (Cell C Sharks), 4 caps, 0 points
19. Franco Mostert (Ricoh Black Rams (Japan)), 4 caps, 0 points
20. Nizaam Carr (DHL Western Province), 2 caps, 0 points
21. Faf de Klerk (Xerox Golden Lions), 8 caps, 0 points
22. Johan Goosen (Racing 92 (France)), 10 caps, 20 points
23. Lionel Mapoe (Kubota Spears (Japan)), 9 caps, 0 points

http://www.sarugby.net/news/springboks-shuffle-team-clash-england/

Again Coetzee shows little consistency and very little sense.

The backline willbe on a hiding to nothing, Coetzee have switched his backline so regularly this season that none is the wiser, there will be Frak all organisation or cohesion in that backline.

There are only two players in that backline in any kind of form, and one of them is just back from a lengthy injury lay off.

Why Willem Alberts is there is anyone's guess.

This South Afrivan team will be slow, stodgy, unorganised, poorly coached and unprepared. They will struggle to retain possession, lack any urgency and kick everything away.

England should put 35-40 points on this team.

I'm sure a lot of people were saying the same about Australia before last Saturday, look how that turned out.

Yes SA had a poor RC, and yes the team is a shadow of the great teams of the recent past.

But Twickenham had been a happy hunting ground for over a decade, in the past they've blown England out of the water even when off form.

SA have been together since August, they're battered and bloodied, and they've been embarrassed, but that just makes them more dangerous.

yappysnap wrote:I'm sure a lot of people were saying the same about Australia before last Saturday, look how that turned out.

Yes SA had a poor RC, and yes the team is a shadow of the great teams of the recent past.

But Twickenham had been a happy hunting ground for over a decade, in the past they've blown England out of the water even when off form.

SA have been together since August, they're battered and bloodied, and they've been embarrassed, but that just makes them more dangerous.

If they had a good coach I would agree, thus far Coetzee have shown F all.

Du Toit at 7??

Holy moly, what you can do with Haskell we can do better!!?

Luckily we know that whatever issues England have had against SA, Eddie Jones knows this SA approach from both sides and has helped it succeed (the power pack of 2007) but also beaten it in the greatest upset in rugby!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Du Toit at 7??

Holy moly,  what you can do with Haskell we can do better!!?

Bit confused by this. South Africa usually play with these shirts reversed, ie Blindside wears 7 and the Openside 6. Does this mean that actually Alberts is playing on the openside?

Same difference overall.

Planning on bludgeoning us into submission? It has worked before and Alberts was at the heart of it. I must say though, I'm a little more confident after seeing the S.A. team.

Cumbrian wrote:Planning on bludgeoning us into submission?  It has worked before and Alberts was at the heart of it.  I must say though, I'm a little more confident after seeing the S.A. team.  

Look at their coaching staff and you will feel right as rain

Some accounts of England's run of losses against SA suggest England went into many of the matches with boundless confidence about strength and power, only to come away defeated.

That's not really how I remember it.

After we lost in 2006, I don't think supporters were particularly optimistic until 2010, when we were coming off back to back wins over Australia. The. 2007 tour was always a right off because of player unavailability. I was hopeful during the World Cup final but mainly because it was a one-off occasion. The result was not a shock.

After the 2010 hope, we looked clueless at the 2011 Cup, so our 2012 tour was always going to be rough, no matter what had happened in the Six Nations. Sure, I hoped we'd do better than just a draw, but didn't expect it.

The last two games I did give us a good chance, and they were close but we blew them. I make that three games out of the last 12 where we went in with high hopes rather than just hope.

If we lose tomorrow, then it'll be the first time in a long while we were regarded as favourites.

We are going to stuff them. England by +20pts.



but I'd take a 1 point win.

Biltong wrote:

BamBam wrote:The Springbok team to face England at Twickenham:

15. Willie le Roux (Canon Eagles (Japan)), 39 caps, 45 points
14. Ruan Combrinck (Xerox Golden Lions), 4 caps, 13 points
13. Francois Venter (Toyota Free State Cheetahs), uncapped
12. Damian de Allende (DHL Western Province), 20 caps, 10 points
11. JP Pietersen (Leicester Tigers (England)), 69 caps, 120 points
10. Patrick Lambie (vice-captain) (Cell C Sharks), 53 caps, 137 points
9. Rudy Paige (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 5 caps, 0 points
8. Warren Whiteley (Docomo Red Hurricanes (Japan)), 12 caps, 15 points
7. Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Western Province), 17 caps, 15 points
6. Willem Alberts (Stade Francais (France)), 41 caps, 35 points
5. Lood de Jager (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 25 caps, 20 points
4. Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province), 53 caps, 10 points
3. Vincent Koch (Saracens (England)), 7 caps, 0 points
2. Adriaan Strauss (captain) (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 63 caps, 30 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), 84 caps, 10 points
Replacements
16. Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Western Province), 3 caps, 0 points
17. Steven Kitshoff (Bordeaux (France)), 7 caps, 0 points
18. Lourens Adriaanse (Cell C Sharks), 4 caps, 0 points
19. Franco Mostert (Ricoh Black Rams (Japan)), 4 caps, 0 points
20. Nizaam Carr (DHL Western Province), 2 caps, 0 points
21. Faf de Klerk (Xerox Golden Lions), 8 caps, 0 points
22. Johan Goosen (Racing 92 (France)), 10 caps, 20 points
23. Lionel Mapoe (Kubota Spears (Japan)), 9 caps, 0 points

http://www.sarugby.net/news/springboks-shuffle-team-clash-england/

Again Coetzee shows little consistency and very little sense.

The backline willbe on a hiding to nothing, Coetzee have switched his backline so regularly this season that none is the wiser, there will be Frak all organisation or cohesion in that backline.

There are only two players in that backline in any kind of form, and one of them is just back from a lengthy injury lay off.

Why Willem Alberts is there is anyone's guess.

This South Afrivan team will be slow, stodgy, unorganised, poorly coached and unprepared. They will struggle to retain possession, lack any urgency and kick everything away.

England should put 35-40 points on this team.

Another SH team packed full of lock forwards for the weekend. Maybe SA are hoping to scare England with their massive blokes? It might work...

Tom Wood is the worry. Not physical enough or mobile enough against a pack like SA's. I know it'd be a tough debut, but Hughes would have been a far better pick. I think it's going to be a very long day for the pack and wouldn't be surprised at all if the Boks just bludgeon us.

Biltong wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Planning on bludgeoning us into submission?  It has worked before and Alberts was at the heart of it.  I must say though, I'm a little more confident after seeing the S.A. team.  

Look at their coaching staff and you will feel right as rain

If you want to punch it up around the fringes and one out with Alberts, de Jager, Etzebeth and Strauss there is no way on earth Tom Wood will be able to stop you on the gain line. With our pack I really think you just need to do what you do best and I'd expect you've got a very good chance.

Go England

Doing what we always do against SA, give points away needlessly.

'Why is May picked, he's terrible...'

EnglishReign wrote:Doing what we always do against SA, give points away needlessly.

yep

Not good to see England destroyed in the scrum like that. Looks like the absences will hurt them there.

Graces needs to learn the new maul laws - SA swimming around the side all the time

What the hell, there were about 5 knock ons there

Heaf wrote:Graces needs to learn the new maul laws - SA swimming around the side all the time

swimming?

EnglishReign wrote:'Why is May picked, he's terrible...'

(not watching) I am sure it was just an easy run in that any idiot could have scored....

doctor_grey wrote:

Heaf wrote:Graces needs to learn the new maul laws - SA swimming around the side all the time

swimming?

I presume he means changing bind

lostinwales wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:'Why is May picked, he's terrible...'

(not watching) I am sure it was just an easy run in that any idiot could have scored....

I know you're joking but that actually is most of Nowell's tries. Not knocking him either though.

EnglishReign wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:'Why is May picked, he's terrible...'

(not watching) I am sure it was just an easy run in that any idiot could have scored....

I know you're joking but that actually is most of Nowell's tries. Not knocking him either though.

Well somebody has to score them, and if its a run in then any international winger should be able to manage that. So you need guys who can offer something else as well - and I think both May and Nowell offer that.

Feels a bit better now.

Yarde needs to show a bit more composure on his box kick chases, worry we'll see a yellow if he keeps taking the man in the air.

From what I can read it seems that there is a serious amount of muscle in that SA pack but outside of that and Lambie's boot they are not offering much. Now they are one lock down (and it sounds like the other may be in the wars too) they are going to start to struggle

Very calm by Daly.

Nice way to go in at half time.

lostinwales wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:'Why is May picked, he's terrible...'

(not watching) I am sure it was just an easy run in that any idiot could have scored....

I know you're joking but that actually is most of Nowell's tries. Not knocking him either though.

Well somebody has to score them, and if its a run in then any international winger should be able to manage that. So you need guys who can offer something else as well - and I think both May and Nowell offer that.

Exactly right.

The next scrum after that lock left was more even, his departure had an impact.

Scotland leading 17 - 10 as well..

Some kick by Daly to end the half. First try was beautiful, just lovely. Second a bit scrappy, but it was a good kick from Daly into space, and then a good chase by England to force the error.

SA not offering a huge amount in attack so far, but England need to cut down on the penalties.

OK, but England did great for the last few minutes. Need that effort for the next full 40. I don't think Eddie will be that happy.
That said, i would rather be up by 11 as opposed to being down.

Lovely try

That's better..............

Scotland up 22-13............

doctor_grey wrote:Scotland up 22-13............

Sounds like an exciting game, going to have to watch it.

Definitely been better for England as they kept the ball in hand.

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Scotland up 22-13............

Sounds like an exciting game, going to have to watch it.

I have one game on tv and the other on the computer.

England have dropped of a bit here.  Great try from SA.

Last week they came back from here to draw, they will do it again if England don't keep focused.

Actually that was forward but the ref is giving it.

Erm that's a forward pass no?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Erm that's a forward pass no?

Apparently it wasn't because the TMO was zoomed into the picture lol

It was the most obvious forward pass. If that decided the game now he would not be popular.

Getting stuffed.

Glad we got Farrell's try. Our impact bench was looking distinctly unimpactful.

Ben Youngs playing so well..

Looks like Ben Youngs set up a virtually identical try as the one he set up Ford. One try to the left, one mirror image to the right.
Still a lot of England sleepwalking........

Overall some good play in a real pressure game. They haven't beaten these guys in ten years and these guys are still putting monsters on the pitch. Early on it looked like another bish bosh penalty game. England did well to play their game in the end.