Brexit

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 02 Dec 2016, 12:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Funniest thing to happen in years. Have been following the craziness on the FT. Despite the implications if our current crop of retards manage to push it through I can't remember when I've read the news everyday without fail and learned something new. What does everyone think of the possibility that we stay in the single market, retain freedom of movement. Pay into the EU coffers and lose our vote ??

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:11 pm

Yeah but your belief in your country will not make it succesful any more than my belief in Adele's fanny will make her sit on my face. The best thing about Britain has always been it's diplomatic skill all of which has been absent in recent years...just when we need it most.. You need to make the distinction between your belief and stone cold reality when you're reading through this stuff. EU ain't perfect but it's professionalism can't be questioned. We can quibble and we can renege but all those come with consequences we have to be willing to take without pointing fingers or playing games because we're the ones under the cosh.

by **88Chris05** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:35 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Yeah but your belief in your country will not make it succesful any more than my belief in Adele's fanny will make her sit on my face.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:55 pm

Hullo Chris, been a while old friend.

by **88Chris05** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:58 pm

How do, Shah?

Still trying to fathom what's happened to the once glorious boxing board, so having to test the waters in Off Topic more and more. Has the Brexit uncertainty subsided at the company you work for, yet? Seem to recall you mentioning it last year.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:34 pm

Big money players are moving to Switzerland so we're losing millions in tax and priceless amount of experience and scientific knowledge. The building will still run but with a shadow of it's contribution to the town and barely a shadow of it's former contribution to the treasury. Pretty much got my prediction spot on save I underestimated dramatically how much they were getting paid. They have said it's not due to brexit but billion pound relocations after only a year and half don't happen for small reasons. Just don't want the bad publicity that comes with the stupid thing. What about you, are you a fully fledged worker and contributor or are you sneaking into Jeff's house at night to steal his admittedly impressive collection of boxing books?

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:09 pm

LionsV2 wrote:A belief in my country is all I need, not that I need to justify my opinions to someone who lives in Canada.

Why not? Your belief about your country is based on the dim and distant past. The UK electorate voted to leave the most signifcant organisation it has ever been part of based on xenophobia and in doing so cut off its own nose and alienated business - ask Goldman Sachs - to such an extent it is now a case of will the last person turn out the lights.

And you'd better start being nice to Canadians, they like that, and the UK just signed a very significant trade agreement with them.

by dummy_half Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:20 pm

Gwlad wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:A belief in my country is all I need, not that I need to justify my opinions to someone who lives in Canada.

Why not? Your belief about your country is based on the dim and distant past. The UK electorate voted to leave the most signifcant organisation it has ever been part of based on xenophobia and in doing so cut off its own nose and alienated business - ask Goldman Sachs - to such an extent it is now a case of will the last person turn out the lights.

And you'd better start being nice to Canadians, they like that, and the UK just signed a very significant trade agreement with them.

Which because it's an EU deal, we will be negotiating our way out of in the next few months and then re-negotiating something (probably inferior) separately at a later date.

You really couldn't make up the stupidity, and all stemming from David Cameron over-estimating the threat posed by UKIP...

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:44 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:A belief in my country is all I need, not that I need to justify my opinions to someone who lives in Canada.

This guy has to be a troll, right?

It's Hammersmith Harrier by another name, IMO.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:45 pm

Gwlad wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Spain, Portugal, France, Germany and Italy have no history of colonialism do they?
Just what I was going to say...

Oh please, all tiny players by comparison to GB and her frankly evil colonial career....only France really compares, the rest tried to be colonialists but not to any extent in modern 19th and 20th century history.

Comprehension clearly an issue. THEY weren't colonised by us. Were they? Which was the point. picard

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 6:08 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/ftse-100-chiefs-fury-at-no-10-letter-backing-ministers-on-brexit-11023229

L.O.L

by catchweight Wed 06 Sep 2017, 6:11 pm

I dont think that was the point actually myself.

My take on it was that Britain is not alone in having history of colonialism ergo it would be hypocritical of these nations to "punish" Britain or it.

We have fought wars with most of the European countries historically in any event without neccessarly colonising them. I seriously doubt the EU negotiators are basing their negotoations on age old colonial wars and rivalries though.

Same cant be said for some of the leave voters though.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 6:22 pm

This talk of punishment is a false and misleading distraction from the legal questions. We designed and developed the single market so we could compete with Asia and the U.S.A and made it so no outside state could use any member of the single market as a back door into the trading bloc. Then we moved out of the trading bloc and thus out of it's protection which now applies to us as a third country. So how do we convince the EU to change it's laws to suit us?

by catchweight Wed 06 Sep 2017, 6:33 pm

Ah its pretty obvious we dont really know what we are doing. We have no clear position nevermind negotiable ways to implement it. How could we? We are trying manage an immensely complex scenario with no real national concensus beyond the results of a simplistic yes / no vote. You could spend decades on this and still struggle to work it out satisfactorily. We are trying to do it on the fly in a two year timeframe. An impossibly unrealistic undertaking.

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 6:42 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Spain, Portugal, France, Germany and Italy have no history of colonialism do they?
Just what I was going to say...

Oh please, all tiny players by comparison to GB and her frankly evil colonial career....only France really compares, the rest tried to be colonialists but not to any extent in modern 19th and 20th century history.
Comprehension clearly an issue. THEY weren't colonised by us. Were they? Which was the point.

Europe will punish GB and I for years of arrogance and colonialism....we snubbed them so of course they will take their pound of flesh, they don't like us anyway. UK voters are idiots.

This was the original point, and since i made it i suggest you read all the posts before making yourself look anymore foolish. thumbsup

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 6:53 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-uk-donald-tusk-punish-punishment-punitive-enough-latest-a7659371.html

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:08 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-uk-donald-tusk-punish-punishment-punitive-enough-latest-a7659371.html

This is what happens when you let the masses decide, the UK did for itself and will reap the results. Cameron ought to be strung up from Big Ben but even that doesnt work anymore.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:13 pm

Its just a point that Europe isn't looking to punish us, they know the destruction we will wreak on ourselves is worse than anything they could come up with and they just want to get it over with the least amount of damage to themselves. Nothing about colonialism or arrogance or teaching us a lesson. Just the determination to get the best possible outcome which is really how much damage limitation can be done.

by LionsV2 Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:28 pm

We shall see won't we, not for a second believing all the doom-mongers.

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:29 pm

I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:31 pm

If that was true they wouldnt be encouraging us to go to EFTA/EEA route which would largely mitigate the damage and would simply let us go.

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:37 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:If that was true they wouldnt be encouraging us to go to EFTA/EEA route which would largely mitigate the damage and would simply let us go.

i hope that the EEA route can be worked out, IMO that sis as far as we should ever have got involved with Europe anyway. But the point is that they are doing that for their benefit not four ours, just as we would do to another country that said, we don't want to be part of your club anymore. Inevitably the club would close ranks to protect itself and therefore the main victim will be the self enforced outsider.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:41 pm

Yes that's the point, Europe isn't going to stick the boot in because of arrogance or whatever other reason, they're going to do what's best for them. That's a far cry from deliberately and spitefully giving us a kicking because of past grievances.

by **Galted** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:47 pm

Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 7:57 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Yes that's the point, Europe isn't going to stick the boot in because of arrogance or whatever other reason, they're going to do what's best for them. That's a far cry from deliberately and spitefully giving us a kicking because of past grievances.

Sure they are, keep thinking that pal.

by LionsV2 Wed 06 Sep 2017, 8:00 pm

They're not going to punish us for things they also did, an absurd point of view to be honest.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 06 Sep 2017, 8:57 pm

Europe wants to know what the UK wants...Trouble is Remain like May two months ago were too arrogant to think S**T happens.

Going to be fun seeing the Tories paying the EU billions and then watching them explain to Nurses at the next GE..Why there is no money to give them a decent wage...

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 9:10 pm

LionsV2 wrote:They're not going to punish us for things they also did, an absurd point of view to be honest.

Well any rational person would say it is absurd for the UK to leave Europe and it is absurd to have voted for Donald Trump so I suppose you must be right.

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 9:40 pm

Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

by **Galted** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 9:59 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

by Gwlad Wed 06 Sep 2017, 10:39 pm

Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

Like I said you aren't funny, she's dead.

by **Galted** Wed 06 Sep 2017, 10:41 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

Like I said you aren't funny, she's dead.

Whatever.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 07 Sep 2017, 11:45 am

Gwlad wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Spain, Portugal, France, Germany and Italy have no history of colonialism do they?
Just what I was going to say...

Oh please, all tiny players by comparison to GB and her frankly evil colonial career....only France really compares, the rest tried to be colonialists but not to any extent in modern 19th and 20th century history.
Comprehension clearly an issue. THEY weren't colonised by us. Were they? Which was the point.

Europe will punish GB and I for years of arrogance and colonialism....we snubbed them so of course they will take their pound of flesh, they don't like us anyway. UK voters are idiots.

This was the original point, and since i made it i suggest you read all the posts before making yourself look anymore foolish.

Suggest you look up the definition of this word, as clearly you've used it mistakenly. No need to say 'Thanks'

.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 07 Sep 2017, 11:52 am

Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

Like I said you aren't funny, she's dead.

Please moderate your attitude around here. It's verging on being continually over-the-top.

by **Hero** Thu 07 Sep 2017, 2:17 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

Like I said you aren't funny, she's dead.

Hasn't bothered Galted in the past.

by **Galted** Thu 07 Sep 2017, 2:26 pm

Hero wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

Like I said you aren't funny, she's dead.

Hasn't bothered Galted in the past.

I find myself funny, and that's the most important thing.

by **Galted** Thu 07 Sep 2017, 2:27 pm

Galted wrote:
Hero wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

Like I said you aren't funny, she's dead.

Hasn't bothered Galted in the past.

I find myself funny, and that's the most important thing.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 07 Sep 2017, 4:00 pm

Galted wrote:
Galted wrote:
Hero wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I appreciate that's what they say, i also know my history and we are hated in Europe for arrogance and the carefully cultivated perception amonsgt European partners that we are better than they, when in truth we are a failed colonial behemoth on the verge of falling into an economic and social abyss.

Translation: Gwlad has a penpal in France who hates him.

You aren't anywhere near as amusing as you think you are, stick to playing with your man boobs.

Your mum's are better.

Like I said you aren't funny, she's dead.

Hasn't bothered Galted in the past.

I find myself funny, and that's the most important thing.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:03 pm

Just read this today:

"To be sure, the EU will be damaged if in 18 months Britain crashes out of the EU, the way your suit is ruined with blood stains if the person standing next to you decides to shoot themselves in the foot. But does the British political class genuinely believe that EU member states are going to jump in front of that bullet and undermine the very existence of their single economy in order to safeguard the privileges of a country that over the past decades has lost no opportunity to disparage, undermine and blackmail them? Britain already had a sweet deal – it’s not getting any sweeter."

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:16 pm

Aye it's the same thing over and over again. UK wants to leave and not join efta but at the same time wants the benefits of membership. This makes it a simple choice for the EU. Either they take an enormous hit and lose the whole EU economy or take a big hit and lose the UK economy. Losing the UK on its own is a big problem but compared to losing the whole EU? It's just doesn't compare.

by LionsV2 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:21 pm

Here's hoping it starts the collapse of the whole EU.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:39 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Here's hoping it starts the collapse of the whole EU.

It won't though, sorry.

Have you also considered that the UK is a service-based economy? You know that's the easiest sector to move out once the doodie starts to hit the fan, don't know?

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 12 Sep 2017, 9:35 am

LionsV2 wrote:Here's hoping it starts the collapse of the whole EU.

I doubt it somehow. You've clearly missed, for example, the Germans feeling OK with potential decreases in BMW/Merc/etc sales to the UK as a result of Brexit if the EU as whole stays intact. It's not (all) about the money for them, the French etc. 'We' clearly don't get it and now we'll have to lie in this bed we've so short-sightedly made for ourselves.

by **ShahenshahG** Tue 12 Sep 2017, 12:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41233257

Global Britain indeed.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 12 Sep 2017, 11:47 pm

Word has it that May is taking the UK out of the EEA.....Pretty much makes a hard Brexit a formality as attempts to set up new deals with those Countries ensue bypassing the Commission... Norway and places like that...Can't remember the others.....

Goodbye to the Single market...Freedom of movement. Hello to Barriers..Tariffs and a rise in Unemployment...

Repent at Leisure....After the other night's votes the Conservatives own Brexit now..

Not a great thing to own..me thinks.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 05 Oct 2017, 9:26 am

https://www.ft.com/content/92bb5636-a95b-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97?mhq5j=e7#comments

We won't even be trade on WTO terms anymore, The US has objected to splitting tariffs. Means EU keeps the same TRQ and we have to negotiate for access to other markets. Project fear slowly becoming project reality.

by Muscular-mouse Sun 08 Oct 2017, 1:01 am

The negotiations have been going terribly for the UK. The fact the EU are dictating what negotiations must take place first (divorce bill, EU citizens rights and Irish border) kind of shows who holds the power here.

In my opinion there needs to be a second referendum at the end of the negotiation period where all the facts can actually be presented and we can decide if we want the deal we negotiated and to leave the EU or whether we want to reverse the decision and remain an EU member.

by LivinginItaly Sun 08 Oct 2017, 7:31 am

If one wanted to be cynical, one could argue that a second referendum is precisely the type of scenario that the government is trying to engineer through a terrible negotiation phase leading to a very bad agreement that obviously nobody in their right mind would accept. Thus, given a bleak future from said terrible agreement, the government can propose a second referendum to allow the people to choose. Hoping that a vote to reject the agreement and remain in the EU will mean that everything can return to normal and we can quietly forget about the whole episode.

by Muscular-mouse Sun 08 Oct 2017, 10:13 am

I don't think the government are negotiating terribly on purpose, I think the EU was always going to play hard ball as they have all the power.

by Derbymanc Sun 08 Oct 2017, 4:37 pm

Everything won't return to normal though, either the way the EU now has us over a massive barrell with the parties seemingly clueless on what to do. Brexit has turned out to be somewhat of a mistake but it's now whilst we're struggling with negotiations that all parties should come together to discuss what should be done for the best of Britain.

I personally think it's gone too long now for a second referendum and unless we have a binding agreement from the EU that we would return to the status we did have then i can't see it happening. (either that or it will be the same clusterf*** that it is now with us begging for rights)

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 09 Oct 2017, 7:21 am

Right now what is happening is that people with vested interests are starting to make noises about No deal and how Europe is f*cking us over and how easy it will be after we leave. Meanwhile, there are mutterings about ration books in the civil service and nearly a quarter of the department has legged it rather than face a Chilcott type inquiry after it all goes tits up. The delusion is here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/08/brexit-treasury-eu-bernard-jenkin

Essentially saying we should make pinky swears and ignore international law.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/james-cusick-adam-ramsay-crina-boros/revealed-tory-mps-using-taxpayers-cash-to-fund-sec

and they don't have even the decency to use their own money to f*ck us over with.

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