Ongoing NFL Discussion Thread V

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Love this Texans D. They're amazing without Watt. Scary.

Amazing is a bit far - they're pretty good, nothing special.

Number one D in the NFL without their best player.

They're one of about 8 teams to hold that tag - and lets face it it's measured in yards...in points the #1 D was the Pats.

No great defences out there this year, just a lot of pretty good ones. If they had Watt, maybe they'd be great...but they don't

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Picking a RB at #1 over a QB for a team that hasn't had a QB in their entire second existence would be so incredibly stupidly dumb, it makes me thinks the Browns will actually do it.

Why would you actively give up your choice of the QB class, to draft a RB? It'd be absolutely bonkers.

[Lowlandbrit]

I know these are only mocks but I don't get the consensus on drafting a QB #1.

Browns need a QB, if they wait until #4 and someone above them gets someone that ends up looking good everyone laughs at them. Plus, the last time a RB went #1 was in 1995 and it's still seen as a position where you can get a solid starter later on.

[GSC]

If you like a QB enough at 4, draft him 1.

[mikeygnfl]

After the NFL Combine Saquon Barkley looks a non-brainer at no 1 pick. Unfortunately the Browns have number 1 pick and their record is not great.

They have enough cap space to get a capable QB in free agency where that be Kirk Cousins, Teddy Bridgewater or even Case Keenums in the short term.

I like Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield at QB but feel the Browns can get better value at other positions in the draft.

[mikeygnfl]

My NFL Combine winners were:-
QB Josh Allen
RB Saquon Barkley, Nick Chubb
WR DJ Chark
TE Mike Gesicki
S Dane Cruikshank, Troy Apke
DE Leon Jacobs
DL Ade Aruna, Marcus Davenport
LB Gerard Avery, Oren Burks, Matthew Thomas
CB Denzel Ward
OL Kolton Miller

[GSC]

Underwear Olympics winners that has next to nothing to do with football woop woop

[skins4ever]

OK, I get what you mean about missing out on the best QB in the draft if you pick RB 1st, but given a) Browns have an awful history with QB's and the #1 pick and b) what Jax did last year after picking up a marquee back, I don't think it's that daft. IF they didn't also have the #4 pick I'd wholeheartedly agree.

[GSC]

The Jaguars might have beaten NE if they picked DeShaun Watson.

They didn't make the postseason because they had Fournette, they made it because they had a dominant defense. Fournette didn't even top 4 ypc.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

GSC has beaten me to the post there - you can get RBs late in the draft, or on the cheap in FA who can do everything you need them too, you only have to look at the RBs on the two super bowl teams to see that

[Pr4wn]

Look at where the top two rookie RBs were drafted. Fournette was good but he wasn't as good as Hunt or Alvin Kamara.

[GSC]

I actually don't mind picking a RB high if he's a stud, but if I need a QB or a pass rusher and there's one available, no chance.

[skins4ever]

I'd argue Fournette gained a lot of yards despite opponents keying on the run game because Bortles wasn't seen as a threat, but his YPC was low because a) he was targeted and b) he was used a lot in short yardage. He accounted for 1300+ yards and 10 TD's as a rookie. Yes Hunt and Kamara are possibly better weapons because of their versatility, but that doesn't make Fournette a bad player. Look at the teams they were on; both much bigger passing threats than Jax. And anyone argue that adding both of those backs made both teams better?

I won't argue that generally you need a franchise QB to win the SB, but with a championship calibre D and an RB that can take the pressure off the QB, you can still win. And I'd argue that with the Browns looking at yet another rookie QB probably being thrown in the deep end early, and without a D that can help him out, being able to lean on the running game is indispensable. And I'm not the only one saying this.

[Pr4wn]

Never said he was a bad player, he was very good! But you don't pass up on a potential franchise QB for anything else.

Remember when Trent Richardson was the next Barry Sanders?

[GSC]

Didn't say Fournette was bad, don't think he was that good either. A lot of people associating Jacksonvilles resurgence with his arrival.

[GSC]

In their quest to win a game, the Browns have traded actual assets for a mediocre slot receiver and a bad QB

[JDizzle]

Tyrod is okay. But they’ve traded the 65th pick for a bloke who’ll play 8 games.

They’ve also traded for Damarious Randall. Average is better than bad I guess.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

In their quest to win a game, the Browns have traded actual assets for a mediocre slot receiver and a bad QB

Don’t understand people who seem to think Landry is good - dude literally cannot run a route beyond five yards

[Lowlandbrit]

I think the Browns have done pretty well there. Taylor's good enough that you don't need to draft someone that can start day 1, and they have 5 earlier picks than the one they gave up anyway.

[Number-25]

I've always thought that your RBs will run as far as your O-Line let's them. In fact, unless you have Brady or Rodgers, your entire offense will generally just go as far as your O-Line will take it.

Re Cleveland, a lot of analysts appear to have mistaken a lot of activity for improvement.

[skins4ever]

No doubt they have more work to do on bolstering across the squad, but can't help thinking that whilst not great strides, Taylor and Landry are an improvement over what they have. Plus they're trading Kizer away and getting picks back. If they re-sign Thomas and draft RB, OL and D, they could well be improving on ranking 32.

On a side note, its going to be interesting to see what Buffalo does now, given they don't really have a starter at QB on the roster now. Another team in the draft a QB mix, or maybe they go after a QB in FA?

[GSC]

They got Randall from GB for Kizer, not picks.

Tyrod is a below average starting QB. His stats look better than he does.

Landry might be the least efficient player in the league. No idea how you lead the league in catches and not top 1000 yards

[skins4ever]

They got Randall from GB for Kizer, not picks.

Tyrod is a below average starting QB. His stats look better than he does.

Landry might be the least efficient player in the league. No idea how you lead the league in catches and not top 1000 yards

My bad on Kizer. Agree on Taylor, but he's still better than what they have/had.

Landry is a bit of a puzzle to me. Are his stats a product of his ability, his place in the scheme or just a lack of stability at the QB position over his stint with the Phins? There are bits about his play that remind me of Art Monk. He was your 1st down man that would rarely burn someone but almost always got open where needed. Except Landry doesn't move the chains. Can't help thinking/hoping for his sake he gets a fresh start in Cleveland.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'm with GSC on Landry - I don't see how anyone could possibly pay him $15m a year, the guy can't do anything beyond 5 yards of the line of scrimmage - and half his receptions are simply screens or designed dump offs - he's meant to be a "YAC" monster, but he just isn't - he constantly just dances around and doesn't make yards, like GSC says how you can lead the league in catches and not even top 1000 yards (and finish second last in yards per catch iirc) is beyond me in this day of the league.

I like the Taylor move though. An actual veteran who can play is something Cleveland haven't had - so long as it doesn't stop them taking their guy at #1 i think it's fine

[JDizzle]

To be fair to Landry, before this year with Cutler, he had averaged 10.5 and 12.1 YPC in the previous two seasons - which are around Edelman numbers. He is limited and not worth $15m a year, but if Cleveland can lower that number with a long term deal and with Odell set to blow the roof of the WR market - it might look a decent deal in a few years.

On Tyrod, he is a solid placeholder QB. I just don't get why you'd give up a third round pick for a guy who is probably going to only start for half a season and then leave? Unless this means they are taking Josh Allen and think he needs an entire redshirt season, in which case RIP Cleveland.

[Pr4wn]

Looks like Cousins is heading to Minnesota.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Amendola is going to the Dolphins

I AM NOT COOL WITH THIS - my heart </3

[Number-25]

Is there a point to the legal tampering phase of FA??

[Pr4wn]

Is there a point to the legal tampering phase of FA??

"Clubs are permitted to contact, and enter into contract negotiations with, the certified agents of players who will become Unrestricted Free Agents upon the expiration of their 2017 player contracts at 4:00 p.m., New York time, on March 14. However, a contract cannot be executed with a new club until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on March 14."

Nobody appears to be breaking any rules, as things stand.

[crazy_dave23]

I feel that Case Keenum is going to be terrible this year in Denver... I can just sense it.

Also sad to see Jordy Nelson released for old times' sake... however here's hoping that Jimmy Graham isn't the next Martellus Bennett

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The Jets, most cap room in the league, two big FA signings so far are Josh McCown and Isiah Crowell

Jets gonna jet

[skins4ever]

Be interesting to see if Nelson can get back to 2016 form somewhere else. Something tells me the drop off last year was more than just Rodgers absence. Sad if he's done (or as good as), as at one stage he was on pace for HOF consideration.

Agree on Keenum. Lot of pressure on him to deliver after last year. Reckon Elway hedges his bets and goes after the best QB at #5 (Mayfield?) regardless of other needs.

Kind of curious how the Cards are going to play it as they've gone after Bradford. Must be thinking QB in the draft (signing him to only a 1 year deal), but with them down at #15 surely they need to trade up to get a franchise guy. I reckon they will look to move up to #3 or even #2, as Browns, Broncos and Jets all just about nailed on to draft a QB. Or are they banking on Bradford proving it with the one year deal and going after a QB next year instead if he doesn't work out? They did get a few years out of Palmer after all.

Butler to the Titans bolsters an already good D. Was kind of hoping Skins might go after him to replace Breeland, but $12M a year is probably too steep given what we're paying Norman, even for Snyder.

Also, not sure picking up Richardson has improved our receiving corps that much; rather have seen a 2nd or 3rd rounder picked up in the draft once they address DL and DB's. Mocks have us taking another 1st round WR...

[skins4ever]

The Jets, most cap room in the league, two big FA signings so far are Josh McCown and Isiah Crowell

Jets gonna jet

Wonder what odds I get on the Jets taking a QB with their first pick...

[GSC]

The Jets, most cap room in the league, two big FA signings so far are Josh McCown and Isiah Crowell

Jets gonna jet

I'll be honest, I much preferred winning the SB to winning FA, but to each their own.

[GSC]

Also Sam Bradford got another 20m,

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The Jets, most cap room in the league, two big FA signings so far are Josh McCown and Isiah Crowell

Jets gonna jet

I'll be honest, I much preferred winning the SB to winning FA, but to each their own.

To win a super bowl you must make some good pickups in FA

Those are not good moves

[GSC]

If the only good pickups in free agency were made at a premium a day before it actually opens, you might have a point.

[Number-25]

You do have to make some use of FA but I tend to think that the first couple of days of FA are best avoided... ordinary players move for All-Pro money and it's crazy. If your team isn't on the list of the analysts FA "winners" written at the end of Day 2 of FA then you should feel good.

Re the legal tampering period, honestly what is the point??? Why not just open FA yesterday???

[GSC]

The Jets are signing Trumaine Johnson, start planning the parade

[Number-25]

Keenum will have a better season than Cousins and make Minnesota look like idiots.

[Lowlandbrit]

Re the legal tampering period, honestly what is the point???

I think they probably just came up with it so they wouldn't have to bother investigating anyone when a bunch of people sign contracts in the first hours.

[skins4ever]

To be fair, the tampering period was intended to stop teams talking to players before they had cleared their incumbent teams FA discussions. Given that's for many its plain obvious who they are letting walk, it is kind of redundant, but you have to have some form of period else what stops another team approaching an imminent FA while they are still training and playing for their current team? I think what's happening more often now is teams are talking to their FA's and saying, 'just so you know and get the chance of the best deal, we're going to let you go when the deadline expires'. I reckon theirs an element of gamesmanship here, because teams can bump each others cap space down by pushing a guy out as early as possible and create a bidding war.

Then again you have guys like Sherman who walk out one door immediately into another without seeing other teams (officially?), so is there maybe collusion between teams about moving some of these guys?

[GSC]

The legal tampering period is purely so the NFL can stop having to pretend it actually cares to enforce it's tampering rules

All these deals were 90% done at the combine.

[Pr4wn]

Joe Thomas calls it a career. 10 Pro Bowls in 11 season while playing for the Browns. What an achievement.

[GSC]

The greatest pointless career ever

[Number-25]

Redskins looking good for comp picks next year as half the roster agrees deals elsewhere... some guys just find staying around in a winning culture too intimidating I guess

[Pr4wn]

The greatest pointless career ever

Bit harsh.

[Number-25]

Suh getting released.... sad end to his All-Pro Miami career.

[skins4ever]

The greatest pointless career ever

Bit harsh.

I think he means great career on a team that failed to match his potential with success. If not, yeah, a bit harsh.

[Number-25]

So it's official, the NFL has lost its mind.... Mr Average, Kirk Cousins, is now the highest paid player in its history.

Minnesota have essentially paid insane money to obtain the same level of QB play that they had last season. Cousins has a higher floor than Keenum but the ceiling is essentially the same.

[GSC]

Pretty sure you traded a third, your best corner from last year and 71m guaranteed for Mr Average

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