6N 2017: Wales v Ireland, 10 March

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WALES v IRELAND
10 March 2017
KO: 20:05 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)]

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

124 Played 124
50 Won 67
7 Drawn 7
67 Lost 50
1,477 Points 1,381

B. Recent Form

7 February 2016
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
16 – 16 draw

29 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
10 – 16 to Wales

8 August 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
21 – 35 to Ireland

14 March 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 16 to Wales

8 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
26 – 3 to Ireland

2 February 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
22 – 30 to Ireland

5 February 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
21 – 23 to Wales

8 October 2011
Regional Stadium, Wellington, New Zealand
22 – 10 to Wales

C. Teams

WALES 


Halfpenny; North, J Davies, S Williams, L Williams, Biggar, Webb, Evans, Owens, Francis, Ball, A Jones, Warburton, Tipuric, Moriarty.

Replacements: Roberts for S Williams (67), S Davies for Biggar (80), G Davies for Webb (67), Smith for Evans (67), Baldwin for Owens (72), Lee for Francis (70), Charteris for Ball (63), Faletau for Moriarty (67).

IRELAND


Kearney; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Murray; McGrath, Best, Furlong, D Ryan, Toner, Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip.

Replacements: Bowe for Kearney (70), Jackson for Sexton (19), Marmion for Murray (46), C Healy for McGrath (59), Scannell for Best (80), J Ryan for Furlong (80), Henderson for Toner (63), O'Mahony for Stander (63).

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

the-goon wrote:Our back 3 is truly the weakest part of our team. The sooner we start blooding Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH and Stockdale the better. Hopefully once the WR ranking points for the RWC seeding is sorted, we will see this happen.

It just doesn't give me the feeling of pace.  I like the heart of Earls, the fight in that guy is great and Zebo while infuriating at times has the natural talent to make something happen.  Kearney also has improved immeasurably in the past 6 months.  But in Stockdale, Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH, O'Loughlin there are youngsters of formidable size and great pace that are coming through.  In a years time they'll be scary, would love to see Ireland with real pace.  Not the pace that makes a break and goes for 10 yards down the field before cover catches, but pace that makes a break and takes it to the house.

That comment really amuses me. Zebo and Earls have bags of pace. I think Zebo maybe the fastest in the squad. They play the game that Schmidt wants them to play (safety first, never risk getting turned over by getting away from your support).

Keith Earls wrote:Earls’s speed has remained unaffected: “I’m still clocking good times. We have a ‘max velocity’.” Last week he clocked 9.5m per second, which is over 34kmh or 21mph. “I wouldn’t be as fast as Zeebs. He clocked a 10.2.”

He reckons that maybe over the first 10 metres he would be faster than Zebo, “but he’d have me on the longer distances. He has phenomenal speed, and some of the ways he gets the ball down is incredible. He’s unbelievably naturally talented. In fairness, he has set me up for a lot too.”

The Welsh team seems to have been selected on one or more several bases:
1)Howley and his team is unwilling or unable to distinguish between form and reputation;
2)Gatland is still picking the team;
3)The WRU have told him his position is secure irrespective of results and performance;
4)The well-known tension in the Welsh camp is preventing 1) above;and
5)Howley and his team have no understanding of how to select,coach and motivate an international rugby team.

On the team itself,the principle of 'putting things right' is valid except in Wales' case it has infinity applied to it.Could see why Charteris and Faletau aren't starting given their Bath performances last weekend but not swapping Liam and 1/2p suggests stubborn blind faith as does retaining North.Starting Biggar wouldn't be my choice but I don't have a lifetime contract from the WRU.I'm a bit worried about Friday because that Irish team looks highly mobile to me with the best 3/4s in the NH.

maestegmafia wrote:Stander vs Warburton will be interesting. Both have played well so far.

Mouth watering, can't wait.

exile jack wrote:On the team itself,the principle of 'putting things right' is valid except in Wales' case it has infinity applied to it.

That made me laugh - although it's not funny

Sin é wrote:

That comment really amuses me. Zebo and Earls have bags of pace. I think Zebo maybe the fastest in the squad. They play the game that Schmidt wants them to play (safety first, never risk getting turned over by getting away from your support).

Keith Earls wrote:Earls’s speed has remained unaffected: “I’m still clocking good times. We have a ‘max velocity’.” Last week he clocked 9.5m per second, which is over 34kmh or 21mph. “I wouldn’t be as fast as Zeebs. He clocked a 10.2.”

He reckons that maybe over the first 10 metres he would be faster than Zebo, “but he’d have me on the longer distances. He has phenomenal speed, and some of the ways he gets the ball down is incredible. He’s unbelievably naturally talented. In fairness, he has set me up for a lot too.”

Why do you keep talking about running track measurements when replying to rugby comments, Sin?

Sin é wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

the-goon wrote:Our back 3 is truly the weakest part of our team. The sooner we start blooding Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH and Stockdale the better. Hopefully once the WR ranking points for the RWC seeding is sorted, we will see this happen.

It just doesn't give me the feeling of pace.  I like the heart of Earls, the fight in that guy is great and Zebo while infuriating at times has the natural talent to make something happen.  Kearney also has improved immeasurably in the past 6 months.  But in Stockdale, Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH, O'Loughlin there are youngsters of formidable size and great pace that are coming through.  In a years time they'll be scary, would love to see Ireland with real pace.  Not the pace that makes a break and goes for 10 yards down the field before cover catches, but pace that makes a break and takes it to the house.

That comment really amuses me. Zebo and Earls have bags of pace. I think Zebo maybe the fastest in the squad. They play the game that Schmidt wants them to play (safety first, never risk getting turned over by getting away from your support).

Keith Earls wrote:Earls’s speed has remained unaffected: “I’m still clocking good times. We have a ‘max velocity’.” Last week he clocked 9.5m per second, which is over 34kmh or 21mph. “I wouldn’t be as fast as Zeebs. He clocked a 10.2.”

He reckons that maybe over the first 10 metres he would be faster than Zebo, “but he’d have me on the longer distances. He has phenomenal speed, and some of the ways he gets the ball down is incredible. He’s unbelievably naturally talented. In fairness, he has set me up for a lot too.”

They are quick for Irish players, but not in the same league as Hogg, Watson, Daly, North etc.

And to be honest, you haven't really provided any proof, just an interview where a player praises his teammate. hardly surprising. What numbers does Hogg clock? How is this translated onto the pitch? when it matters.

I had blocked out that Earles was a Lion

Earls is faster than Hogg, just look at his try in week 1, Earls can go backwards faster than Hogg can forwards

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Wales are not clever in attack

Now there's an understatement.

Wales are not in.

I'd take Earls to NZ, quality player.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Rah rah....everyone sucks but us.

I think we'll turn Scotland over, at least 10pts. Wales v Ireland is a very tough one to call though.

Thank you. World order is restored.

I think Ireland will win quite comfortably against Wales. It might be close for 20-30 minutes, but if you look at what Scotland did to Wales in the second half, and then look at what Ireland did to Scotland in the second half (70% possession of something like that), I think Wales will struggle with the intensity in the last quarter. Ireland are clever in defence and at the breakdown, whereas Wales are not clever in attack (Rhys Webb and Liam Williams being notable exceptions).

Wales aren't too clever in defence either, who doesn't kick the ball to touch in the dying minutes when stuck in your own 22?

All Wales need to d is shift the ball to their left wing fast and run at Earls, its easy to gain ground that way and quite often tries

munkian wrote:I had blocked out that Earles was a Lion

Ireland won a grand slam that year so it wasnt that much of a surprise that players like Earls were selected. He is also a fairly good player. He has a decent international try scoring record.

I wouldn't say its just about pace, look at someone like Ben Smith, he isn't an out and out burner but he'd worry me a lot more with ball in hand than Earls would, even if EARLS is a faster runner

The Bolt.... he'd burn all of them (allegedly)  But how long would he last through 80 minutes doing those sprints?  Not bloody long at all.  

Straight line track speed on a single timed occasion has no meaning to a field game where pace has to be turn onable throughout an intensely physical game.  Like Bam said, it really doesn't matter what you can clock in a timed run, it matters how fast you can get things done in a game, over and over and over again.

Cannot believe we are putting out the same side because its important to let the players put things right, wtf. Its important to let the players know that they failed to perform and if the limits of our imagination are this selection then we are royally fecked. Some needed dropping not least North. But it just goes to show what a master manipulator Howley is; at the start of the tournament there was all this excitement about the new additions to the squad and yet even with North's injury we still didn't use any of them and they can't even get on the bench. Steff Evans ffs, yet when i hear Edwards describe him as not the biggest winger you know exactly what their thinking is. Size first, talent second. That and this latest selection shows just how popularity is driving Howley, he isn't bothered about development, rather just the next game and hanging in there. I maintain my wish for us to lose so that big changes have to happen. But they won't.

I hope you lose too.

I second Gun's motion.

PS Or maybe I'm technically wrong there. I third it.

"This is a question for non-Irish fans, when you see Zebo, Earls and Kearney do you think, oh sugar, don't give them space, or are you thinking the threat comes from other parts of the team."

I think they've got the gas and the nous to finish chances created by those inside them most of the time and maybe to create their own sometimes. They're all good players.

I'm interested to see a lot of people apparently rate the Irish back row well above the Welsh. We'll see on Friday, but I wouldn't assume Wales will lose out in that area overall. Whereas the Irish front row and half backs have a clear advantage.

Looks like I'm having to stay in Dublin til Monday.....anyone recommend a good pub with good atmosphere for the game Friday?

If us losing our next two games guaranteed a shake up in our coaching setup I'd be OK with it, especially as it would make Super Saturday more interesting.

But it won't, so I'll cheer the team on and hope we beat Ireland. Can take losing to England, even Scotland but Ireland ? Oh hells no.

Winzer wrote:I'm interested to see a lot of people apparently rate the Irish back row well above the Welsh.  We'll see on Friday, but I wouldn't assume Wales will lose out in that area overall.

I don't think we'll struggle for ball. The problem will be, as it has been for season upon season, how inefficient we are. We make poor use of the ball. Points win prizes, and we don't score enough of them.

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

the-goon wrote:Our back 3 is truly the weakest part of our team. The sooner we start blooding Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH and Stockdale the better. Hopefully once the WR ranking points for the RWC seeding is sorted, we will see this happen.

It just doesn't give me the feeling of pace.  I like the heart of Earls, the fight in that guy is great and Zebo while infuriating at times has the natural talent to make something happen.  Kearney also has improved immeasurably in the past 6 months.  But in Stockdale, Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH, O'Loughlin there are youngsters of formidable size and great pace that are coming through.  In a years time they'll be scary, would love to see Ireland with real pace.  Not the pace that makes a break and goes for 10 yards down the field before cover catches, but pace that makes a break and takes it to the house.

That comment really amuses me. Zebo and Earls have bags of pace. I think Zebo maybe the fastest in the squad. They play the game that Schmidt wants them to play (safety first, never risk getting turned over by getting away from your support).

Keith Earls wrote:Earls’s speed has remained unaffected: “I’m still clocking good times. We have a ‘max velocity’.” Last week he clocked 9.5m per second, which is over 34kmh or 21mph. “I wouldn’t be as fast as Zeebs. He clocked a 10.2.”

He reckons that maybe over the first 10 metres he would be faster than Zebo, “but he’d have me on the longer distances. He has phenomenal speed, and some of the ways he gets the ball down is incredible. He’s unbelievably naturally talented. In fairness, he has set me up for a lot too.”

They are quick for Irish players, but not in the same league as Hogg, Watson, Daly, North etc.

And to be honest, you haven't really provided any proof, just an interview where a player praises his teammate. hardly surprising. What numbers does Hogg clock? How is this translated onto the pitch? when it matters.

He provides timings. Have you any for those listed?

marty2086 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Rah rah....everyone sucks but us.

I think we'll turn Scotland over, at least 10pts. Wales v Ireland is a very tough one to call though.

Thank you. World order is restored.

I think Ireland will win quite comfortably against Wales. It might be close for 20-30 minutes, but if you look at what Scotland did to Wales in the second half, and then look at what Ireland did to Scotland in the second half (70% possession of something like that), I think Wales will struggle with the intensity in the last quarter. Ireland are clever in defence and at the breakdown, whereas Wales are not clever in attack (Rhys Webb and Liam Williams being notable exceptions).

Wales aren't too clever in defence either, who doesn't kick the ball to touch in the dying minutes when stuck in your own 22?

All Wales need to d is shift the ball to their left wing fast and run at Earls, its easy to gain ground that way and quite often tries

Maybe its not so easy. George North has 1 try in 6 games v. Ireland. Earls has 4 tries in 7 v. Wales!

edit: and Earls didn't play in the game that North scored v. Ireland. Bowe & Trimble were the wings that day!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Winzer wrote:I'm interested to see a lot of people apparently rate the Irish back row well above the Welsh.  We'll see on Friday, but I wouldn't assume Wales will lose out in that area overall.

I don't think we'll struggle for ball. The problem will be, as it has been for season upon season, how inefficient we are. We make poor use of the ball. Points win prizes, and we don't score enough of them.

Yeah, I agree we won't struggle too much to get ball. It's just that we'll give it straight back to Ireland when we do get it! THAT is the game plan

"The problem will be, as it has been for season upon season, how inefficient we are. We make poor use of the ball."
Agreed. Usually turgid, frustrating stuff to watch.

Winzer wrote:"The problem will be, as it has been for season upon season, how inefficient we are. We make poor use of the ball."  
Agreed.  Usually turgid, frustrating stuff to watch.

Or Webb going for another dart that rarely gets over the line.

overlordofthewest wrote:Looks like I'm having to stay in Dublin til Monday.....anyone recommend a good pub with good atmosphere for the game Friday?

www.fxbuckley.ie/the-bull-and-castle/ -  Big screens, good food and craft beers. They show all the games upstairs. Restaurant downstairs. Probably my favourite.
https://www.samsbar.ie/ -  Nice bar but probably a little more expensive. Managed by former Leinster centre Eoin O'Malley so tends to show rugby and host teams.

What part of Dublin will you be in?

Obviously a bit more central but I always like Porterhouse on Temple Bar, not that expensive for the area and a good atmosphere.

I am not sure how Bowe gets selected over Gilroy. Think Gilroy is a far more explosive impact player than Bowe is (well these days anyways as Bowe has lost a bit of pace).

Sin é wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

the-goon wrote:Our back 3 is truly the weakest part of our team. The sooner we start blooding Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH and Stockdale the better. Hopefully once the WR ranking points for the RWC seeding is sorted, we will see this happen.

It just doesn't give me the feeling of pace.  I like the heart of Earls, the fight in that guy is great and Zebo while infuriating at times has the natural talent to make something happen.  Kearney also has improved immeasurably in the past 6 months.  But in Stockdale, Byrne, Sweetnam, TOH, O'Loughlin there are youngsters of formidable size and great pace that are coming through.  In a years time they'll be scary, would love to see Ireland with real pace.  Not the pace that makes a break and goes for 10 yards down the field before cover catches, but pace that makes a break and takes it to the house.

That comment really amuses me. Zebo and Earls have bags of pace. I think Zebo maybe the fastest in the squad. They play the game that Schmidt wants them to play (safety first, never risk getting turned over by getting away from your support).

Keith Earls wrote:Earls’s speed has remained unaffected: “I’m still clocking good times. We have a ‘max velocity’.” Last week he clocked 9.5m per second, which is over 34kmh or 21mph. “I wouldn’t be as fast as Zeebs. He clocked a 10.2.”

He reckons that maybe over the first 10 metres he would be faster than Zebo, “but he’d have me on the longer distances. He has phenomenal speed, and some of the ways he gets the ball down is incredible. He’s unbelievably naturally talented. In fairness, he has set me up for a lot too.”

They are quick for Irish players, but not in the same league as Hogg, Watson, Daly, North etc.

And to be honest, you haven't really provided any proof, just an interview where a player praises his teammate. hardly surprising. What numbers does Hogg clock? How is this translated onto the pitch? when it matters.

He provides timings. Have you any for those listed?

I'm judging from what I see on the pitch. Zeebs and Earls are good internationals, but when it comes to electric pace and trickery they aren't in the same league as the Hoggs, Watsons, Dalys and Norths. They do have sthrenghs in other areas over these players, but not when it comes to beating players one on one (again, they aren't bad, just not as good).

Golden wrote:How has Bowe moved above Gilroy again? Did he have a great game for Ulster or something?

Nope. Just another typical Joe selection.

You must tick at least one of these boxes to be a Schidt player:

1) Join Leinster
2) Be friends with Joe
3) DO NOT SHOW FLAIR - stick to the game plan and give a solid performance

If you meet any of the above criteria, whether you become 10th choice at your province or reach the age of 40 you will not be dropped. Pace isn't necessary.

In reality, I don't think it matters who we have on the wings. Unless we play 2 Jonah Lomu style players, they don't get the time or space that is needed to do an awful lot. The attack is still centred around a couple of battering rams in the middle of the field. Maybe the Sexton loop from time to time.

overlordofthewest wrote:Looks like I'm having to stay in Dublin til Monday.....anyone recommend a good pub with good atmosphere for the game Friday?

Seconded. About 16 Welsh lads on a stag there this weekend. I can't wait to go.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:In reality, I don't think it matters who we have on the wings. Unless we play 2 Jonah Lomu style players, they don't get the time or space that is needed to do an awful lot. The attack is still centred around a couple of battering rams in the middle of the field. Maybe the Sexton loop from time to time.

Gatlandball Lite!

Pretty much. The thing is, Wales are pretty good at shutting down big ball carriers and have done so against us on numerous occasions. Which is why I believe Wales will win. We also defend too deep and too narrow, so you will make a lot of ground with your ball carriers.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Golden wrote:How has Bowe moved above Gilroy again? Did he have a great game for Ulster or something?

Nope. Just another typical Joe selection.

You must tick at least one of these boxes to be a Schidt player:

1) Join Leinster
2) Be friends with Joe
3) DO NOT SHOW FLAIR - stick to the game plan and give a solid performance

If you meet any of the above criteria, whether you become 10th choice at your province or reach the age of 40 you will not be dropped. Pace isn't necessary.

The oldest players in the squad are all from Ulster. Are you suggesting they should be dropped?

Rory Best (c) Hooker 15 August 1982 (age 34)
Donnacha Ryan Lock 11 December 1983 (age 33)
Jamie Heaslip Number 8 15 December 1983 (age 33)
Jonathan Sexton Fly-half 11 July 1985 (age 31)
Jared Payne Centre 13 October 1985 (age 31)
Tommy Bowe Wing 22 February 1984 (age 33)
Andrew Trimble Wing 20 October 1984 (age 32)

4 over 31 from Ulster, 2 from Leinster and 1 from Munster.

Rugbyjk wrote:That's my lions pack, but with itoje, kruis/ launchbury, and billy v at 4,5 & 8 respectively.

I think you're spectacularly missing the point.

eirebilly wrote:I am not sure how Bowe gets selected over Gilroy. Think Gilroy is a far more explosive impact player than Bowe is (well these days anyways as Bowe has lost a bit of pace).

Nor do I - 5th best winger at Ulster this year

Piatau is NIQ
Trimble is injured
Stockdale is inexperienced

but Gilroy is none of those.

Infact the truth is Lyttle has put in a quality of performance on the wing that Bowe hasn't matched, come to think of it so has Ludik

So why are Ireland selecting Ulster's 7th best winger this year

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Pretty much. The thing is, Wales are pretty good at shutting down big ball carriers and have done so against us on numerous occasions. Which is why I believe Wales will win. We also defend too deep and too narrow, so you will make a lot of ground with your ball carriers.

We used to be. But as observed by someone recently we don't seem to be as fit and machine like as in previous years. All talk of cryo chambers and the like have gone a bit quiet!

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-team-talking-points-wales-3276450-Mar2017/


Quote from Joe:

"That’s part of what you base your decision-making on: what have people done in the past? Can they replicate that in the future? If they’ve done it in the past, they’re more likely to replicate it.”

 

Might as well bring back ROG, BOD and POC then.

Griff wrote: All talk of cryo chambers and the like have gone a bit quiet!

You mean................................. we have a chance?

Death to the cryo chambers!!! We're back on level terms.

What's so funny G. Carlin?

Please allow us the benefit of your wisdom??

Christ, YOU're a moderator?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:http://www.the42.ie/ireland-team-talking-points-wales-3276450-Mar2017/


Quote from Joe:

"That’s part of what you base your decision-making on: what have people done in the past? Can they replicate that in the future? If they’ve done it in the past, they’re more likely to replicate it.”

 

Might as well bring back ROG, BOD and POC then.

Joe is coming down with Trumpitis. Make BOD great again.

Having said that........................................... hmmm, I wonder could he actually put on that 13 shirt again and help us out of a fix? Then again, that lad has his own bout of Trumpitis over on the English channels. He's unfit to play with the wummery garbage he spouts.

Sounds more like Bush with such a ridiculous banal statement.

Rugbyjk wrote:What's so funny G. Carlin?

Please allow us the benefit of your wisdom??

Christ, YOU're a moderator?

He's an equal opportunities mod, and one of the good ones.

Then what's so funny about

McGrath
Best
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
O'Brien
Vunipola

As a lion pack with mako, George and Cole / sinckler to come on as front row second half??

Don't know. But I'm sure but I'm sure that when George finds a moment he'll explain himself.

Having discovered and drank the elixir of youth Gareth Edwards,Barry John,JPR,Gerald,JJ and the Pontypool front row turn up at the Vale offering to play on Friday but Howley turns them down.He tells them his coaching is too complex for them;they aren't gym monkeys;they haven't gone well in training;and international standard passing,kicking,forward play and heads up rugby have no place in his unique brand of coaching developed over 9 long,long years alongside Gatta the Nut.

SecretFly wrote:I second Gun's motion.

PS Or maybe I'm technically wrong there.  I third it.

It's not a motion, or at least not in the sense you suggest.