6N 2017: Wales v Ireland, 10 March

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WALES v IRELAND
10 March 2017
KO: 20:05 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)]

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

124 Played 124
50 Won 67
7 Drawn 7
67 Lost 50
1,477 Points 1,381

B. Recent Form

7 February 2016
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
16 – 16 draw

29 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
10 – 16 to Wales

8 August 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
21 – 35 to Ireland

14 March 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 16 to Wales

8 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
26 – 3 to Ireland

2 February 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
22 – 30 to Ireland

5 February 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
21 – 23 to Wales

8 October 2011
Regional Stadium, Wellington, New Zealand
22 – 10 to Wales

C. Teams

WALES 


Halfpenny; North, J Davies, S Williams, L Williams, Biggar, Webb, Evans, Owens, Francis, Ball, A Jones, Warburton, Tipuric, Moriarty.

Replacements: Roberts for S Williams (67), S Davies for Biggar (80), G Davies for Webb (67), Smith for Evans (67), Baldwin for Owens (72), Lee for Francis (70), Charteris for Ball (63), Faletau for Moriarty (67).

IRELAND


Kearney; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Murray; McGrath, Best, Furlong, D Ryan, Toner, Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip.

Replacements: Bowe for Kearney (70), Jackson for Sexton (19), Marmion for Murray (46), C Healy for McGrath (59), Scannell for Best (80), J Ryan for Furlong (80), Henderson for Toner (63), O'Mahony for Stander (63).

So I was right the first time. Apologies...

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Golden wrote:How has Bowe moved above Gilroy again? Did he have a great game for Ulster or something?

Nope. Just another typical Joe selection.

You must tick at least one of these boxes to be a Schidt player:

1) Join Leinster
2) Be friends with Joe
3) DO NOT SHOW FLAIR - stick to the game plan and give a solid performance

If you meet any of the above criteria, whether you become 10th choice at your province or reach the age of 40 you will not be dropped. Pace isn't necessary.

He chooses an Ulster player over an Ulster player and the first box in the gripe list is Joe's a leinster fella.
He wouldn't be picking Bowe as the bench option as it covers 13 through 15 leaving Jackson to replace the 10 and Sexton can always move out a spot and cover inside centre. Gilroy is far more of a specialised wing option at Test level meaning its a starting spot or bust for the young lad. On form Adam Byrne is the most in form winger, I wouldn't have him anywhere near the setup until the summer at the earliest though, he needs to learn the game and make his mistakes at pro12 level first before stepping up. Sweetnam isn't/wasn't far behind him.

Mike Gibson, O'Driscoll, D'arcy, Horgan, Trimble, Bowe, Hickie, Zebo, Earls were all 22 or younger when their Senior International careers were started. Think D'arcy was 19. O'Driscoll played full International before playing for Leinster.

Byrne - 22
These players of genuine promise learn their rugby under high pressure in International. Byrne is ready to be part of the squad, if only to add extras to the training sessions and fight for a place accordingly. Won't happen in this season but should have happened.

When has Bowe ever played at 13 or 15 at test level? Gilroy has more experience at 15 in recent years. Henshaw and Earls can cover 13/15 as well. Zebo at 15. I really don't buy that one.

And as Fly says - you can keep the young players safe from test level and continue playing the old boys or you can have a fresh face or two who might actually inject some pace, creativity or excitement for a change. I wouldn't see any problem with having one of Gilroy, Sweetnam or Byrne on the bench. Or even TOH. Someone who might actually do something with the ball. Then again, they have to get the ball from the midfield first...

I do think Schmidt likes giving his old favourites another chance. That is why Jordi Murphy came back at 7 despite being 4th choice there for Leinster, Kearney back at 15, Bowe back because "if he could do it in the past he can do it again in the future". He's 33.

In my opinion I'd rather blood players in the 6 nations rather than the the summer and the autumn. The world cup is more important and I think and this is a guess, there is about 25 tests to the next tournament. I understand that ranking points are important this year but I wouldn't be one bit surprised if kearney, earls and zebo are starting next year in the 6 nations.

I wonder how Howley's saying 'they deserve a change to put it right' effects the players mind-set? If they have play brilliantly on Friday, everyone will praise Howely - but then clearly how Wales perform is largely down to player attitude. If they know they will always get a second chance, perhaps that attitude will continuously peak and drop, depending on previous results. Whereas if the culture was, have a bad game, you'll be dropped and have to win the jersey back off the man who takes your place, perhaps their approach to every game would be different. This is not so much a criticism towards players attitude, but the second-chance never get dropped culture that appears to be part of the current Welsh set up!

There was talk on scrum 5 after the England Wales game, by Phill Bennet and one of the other pundits saying the George North should be Dropped.


Then Shawn Edwards says the George as been given " A " Warning about his defence.

Most of the Wales squad have been together for a few years, surely they ( the Wales players ) have had plenty of ( second chances ) haven't they?

Isn't what Howley and Schmidt said essentially the same thing: so Schmidt says that going for the experienced guys who've done good stuff in the past is justification for picking them because there's a good chance they can do the good stuff again, compared to a rookie that hasn't done anything good at the level yet. Howley says similar, and displays similar by picking on past reputation and giving players a chance to redeem themselves and display the form that made them their name in the first place, and he's crucified. I'm not a Howley fan and don't agree with his selections, but just thought it was interesting that both national set ups seem to have a similar mindset but with a very different interpretation and acceptance by the fans. Interesting stuff.

Griff wrote:Isn't what Howley and Schmidt said essentially the same thing: so Schmidt says that going for the experienced guys who've done good stuff in the past is justification for picking them because there's a good chance they can do the good stuff again, compared to a rookie that hasn't done anything good at the level yet. Howley says similar, and displays similar by picking on past reputation and giving players a chance to redeem themselves and display the form that made them their name in the first place, and he's crucified. I'm not a Howley fan and don't agree with his selections, but just thought it was interesting that both national set ups seem to have a similar mindset but with a very different interpretation and acceptance by the fans. Interesting stuff.

There are a fair few Irish fans unhappy with Schmidt's selections (huge Leinster bias), the tactics they employ and the safety-first approach. I guess they've largely been getting results recently (the Scottish debacle aside) so it gets swept under the carpet a bit. Wales have had to put up with it a lot longer too whereas Schmidt still has some credit in the bank.

SecretFly wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:What's so funny G. Carlin?

Please allow us the benefit of your wisdom??

Christ, YOU're a moderator?

He's an equal opportunities mod, and one of the good ones.

Sorry Rugbyjk - that was rude - I didn't explain the comment.

I just liked the notion that your preferred pack was the one stated, except for the fact that you replaced half of them with some other guys. So, not really that pack then?

Just a turn on the language.

I liked it because that's the way my wife shops - 'apart from these 3 pairs of shoes, I really didn't buy anything'.

Cyril wrote:

Griff wrote:Isn't what Howley and Schmidt said essentially the same thing: so Schmidt says that going for the experienced guys who've done good stuff in the past is justification for picking them because there's a good chance they can do the good stuff again, compared to a rookie that hasn't done anything good at the level yet. Howley says similar, and displays similar by picking on past reputation and giving players a chance to redeem themselves and display the form that made them their name in the first place, and he's crucified. I'm not a Howley fan and don't agree with his selections, but just thought it was interesting that both national set ups seem to have a similar mindset but with a very different interpretation and acceptance by the fans. Interesting stuff.

There are a fair few Irish fans unhappy with Schmidt's selections (huge Leinster bias), the tactics they employ and the safety-first approach. I guess they've largely been getting results recently (the Scottish debacle aside) so it gets swept under the carpet a bit. Wales have had to put up with it a lot longer too whereas Schmidt still has some credit in the bank.

For once I have found a Cyril post that I entirely agree with.

In defence of Joe!!

Who are we going to get in world rugby that is better than Joe Schmidt?

He may be cautious, but he is a winner – and his coaching history bares that out.

He is seeing the guys first hand every day in training, he has extensive coaching experience and he knows the personalities of the players.
He has won 2 six nations titles and beaten NZ for the first time forever.

We have had some bad results mixed in there too, but are we punching below our weight? Definitely not. If anything I would say Joe has taken a group of players that are not the most talented we have ever had and elevated them to a consistently high level. That has raised our expectations. Unreasonably perhaps.

I can remember the second half of the 80’s and the 90’s very clearly – it was not pretty. Irish rugby has come on immeasurably in the professional era, Joe is currently playing his part in that.
I don’t think he has a golden generation of players to choose from either. Wales on Saturday man for man have a similar standard of players but I believe Ireland will win because Joe is a superior coach.

His rugby has been called boring and unadventurous, but yet his team hammered Italy in Rome scoring 9 tries. When was the last time we ever scored 9 tries against anyone? We have the best points difference currently in the 6 nations.

He is not beyond criticism but he is playing winning rugby.

My question is, ‘who is better?’

GC, correct it was.

Ok put it this way, I would start with Irish 1,2,3,6,7 with English 4,5 & 8. Not unheard of to mix a pack up for the lions?

Rugbyjk wrote:GC, correct it was.

Ok put it this way, I would start with Irish 1,2,3,6,7 with   English 4,5 & 8. Not unheard of to mix a pack up for the lions?

Is Best really the, erm, best hooker in the UK and Ireland ?

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:GC, correct it was.

Ok put it this way, I would start with Irish 1,2,3,6,7 with   English 4,5 & 8. Not unheard of to mix a pack up for the lions?

Is Best really the, erm, best hooker in the UK and Ireland ?

Arguments could be made that he isn't, but as a unit the Irish front row could claim to be the best in the NH

Cyril wrote:

Griff wrote:Isn't what Howley and Schmidt said essentially the same thing: so Schmidt says that going for the experienced guys who've done good stuff in the past is justification for picking them because there's a good chance they can do the good stuff again, compared to a rookie that hasn't done anything good at the level yet. Howley says similar, and displays similar by picking on past reputation and giving players a chance to redeem themselves and display the form that made them their name in the first place, and he's crucified. I'm not a Howley fan and don't agree with his selections, but just thought it was interesting that both national set ups seem to have a similar mindset but with a very different interpretation and acceptance by the fans. Interesting stuff.

There are a fair few Irish fans unhappy with Schmidt's selections (huge Leinster bias), the tactics they employ and the safety-first approach. I guess they've largely been getting results recently (the Scottish debacle aside) so it gets swept under the carpet a bit. Wales have had to put up with it a lot longer too whereas Schmidt still has some credit in the bank.

Is that....a....serious comment, Cyril?! I mean an actual serious comment??? Wow! Your first one ever I think! Have to say I agree.

carpet baboon wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:GC, correct it was.

Ok put it this way, I would start with Irish 1,2,3,6,7 with   English 4,5 & 8. Not unheard of to mix a pack up for the lions?

Is Best really the, erm, best hooker in the UK and Ireland ?

Arguments could be made that he isn't, but as a unit the Irish front row could claim to be the best in the NH

Well it is not a Scotsman or a Welshman and Hartley still isn't at his best so Rory may be the best by default.
I'd take Best, George and Fraser Brown but I suspect that makes me a small minority

Cyril wrote:

Griff wrote:Isn't what Howley and Schmidt said essentially the same thing: so Schmidt says that going for the experienced guys who've done good stuff in the past is justification for picking them because there's a good chance they can do the good stuff again, compared to a rookie that hasn't done anything good at the level yet. Howley says similar, and displays similar by picking on past reputation and giving players a chance to redeem themselves and display the form that made them their name in the first place, and he's crucified. I'm not a Howley fan and don't agree with his selections, but just thought it was interesting that both national set ups seem to have a similar mindset but with a very different interpretation and acceptance by the fans. Interesting stuff.

There are a fair few Irish fans unhappy with Schmidt's selections (huge Leinster bias), the tactics they employ and the safety-first approach. I guess they've largely been getting results recently (the Scottish debacle aside) so it gets swept under the carpet a bit. Wales have had to put up with it a lot longer too whereas Schmidt still has some credit in the bank.

Leinster are the top Irish team in the pro 12 and have the best academy its hardly surprising there is a bias to Leinster.

They have also scored a record number of tries in the league so not sure they employ a safety first approach. Similarly Ireland are the top try scorers in the 6 nations and we have scored almost exactly the same amount of tries as England since Jones took over despite having played one less game.

I wouldn't call the Scotland game a debacle at all. They are a good side. Ireland weren't all that bad either to say otherwise I think is doing Scotland a disservice.

Ireland because of its tribal nature will always have fans who will get upset if Jonny from the local parish isnt picked. At least with Schmidt he is picking players from the strongest province whereas our former coach showed a bias to players from a weaker side.

Don't worry guns when Scotland whup England Cyril will change his tune.

Very disappointing showing in this thread lads.

You're almost 10 pages behind the England(grand slam elect - We're better than the AB's) v Scotland(Dark Horses - not that dark these days).

You really need to up your game.

Lol, they all want Ireland to win this game to f up England next weekend.

rapidsnowman wrote:In defence of Joe!!...

My question is, ‘who is better?’

Nobody.... in my eyes.

But that's not the point. The point is we gotta right to moan!

On Howley not dropping players - I don't believe there is a problem with players not trying. If anything, they are sometimes trying too hard, leading to a lot of handling errors and penalties. What maybe tends to give that impression is the purposelessness of a lot of what they do with the ball and their seeming not really to know what to do with it, and the absence of cohesion.

The Irish Declaration of Independence;

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Misery.

Gatland gives Howley the gig every 4 years to make Gatland look better and and keep a regular pay-check coming in until the NZ job comes up.

Winzer wrote:On Howley not dropping players - I don't believe there is a problem with players not trying.  If anything, they are sometimes trying too hard, leading to a lot of handling errors and penalties. What maybe tends to give that impression is the purposelessness of a lot of what they do with the ball and their seeming not really to know what to do with it, and the absence of cohesion.

Which, when you consider how long these coaches have been in post, and how little the gameplan has changed in that time, is pretty disgraceful.

If the opposition and the viewing public know what Wales are going to do, there's no excuse for the players not to know.

geoff999rugby wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:GC, correct it was.

Ok put it this way, I would start with Irish 1,2,3,6,7 with   English 4,5 & 8. Not unheard of to mix a pack up for the lions?

Is Best really the, erm, best hooker in the UK and Ireland ?

Arguments could be made that he isn't, but as a unit the Irish front row could claim to be the best in the NH

Well it is not a Scotsman or a Welshman and Hartley still isn't at his best so Rory may be the best by default.
I'd take Best, George and Fraser Brown but I suspect that makes me a small minority

The England bench front 3 for Saturday would be the lions bench, although not 100% re sinckler yet, if not then Cole.

rapidsnowman wrote:Gatland gives Howley the gig every 4 years to make Gatland look better and and keep a regular pay-check coming in until the NZ job comes up.

I agree, Gatland is using Wales.

Don't understand why there is little talk about this mouthwatering game on Friday?

That's just the kind of year it is Tight. The Irish especially just seem to lack the 'online' interest this year. Maybe the CIA ordered them to keep their heads down and work not play with company computers....

TightHEAD wrote:Don't understand why there is little talk about this mouthwatering game on Friday?

Its a hard one to predict. Wales aren't playing the best at the moment but still have very good players and are at home. Ireland are playing fairly well and are still in the championship so should be very motivated. However, add Barnes into the mix and anything can happen.

Id say Ireland are capable of performances between 6 and 9 out of 10 at the moment whereas Wales probably have a range of 6-8. As such if Ireland play to their best they will probably win.

Other team ranges:

NZ - 8.5/9-10
Eng - 7-9
Aus - 7-8.5
Ire - 6-9
Sco - 6-8
Wal - 6-8
Fra - 5-8
SA - 5-8

Id put the low point for both England and Wales a notch lower

geoff999rugby wrote:Id put the low point for both England and Wales a notch lower

We definitely didn't see a 7 out of 10 performance from England against Italy, bonus point or not.

TightHEAD wrote:Don't understand why there is little talk about this mouthwatering game on Friday?

I think both the conservative selections and the blunt attack from both teams have given fans less to talk about.

Will the roof be closed?

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

Scared of a world class referee though.

Come on Wales.

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

There was plenty of atmos in the Welsh changing room after the Scotland game.

TightHEAD wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

There was plenty of atmos in the Welsh changing room after the Scotland game.

Why were you there ? Bit weird.

Scottrf wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

Scared of a world class referee though.

They aren't dat sorta player, sor.

Scottrf wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

Scared of a world class referee though.

Barnes is probably the worst ref in the history of the professional game. You are lucky as an English fan that you never have to sit through his bizarre refereeing.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

Scared of a world class referee though.

Barnes is probably the worst ref in the history of the professional game. You are lucky as an English fan that you never have to sit through his bizarre refereeing.

Other than when he sent off my club's captain in the premiership final, sin binning our player for being punched, doesn't give an obvious forward pass in our most important game this season? etc

munkian wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

There was plenty of atmos in the Welsh changing room after the Scotland game.

Why were you there ? Bit weird.

Well I was dropped as an infant!

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

munkian wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Will the roof be closed?

Yes, the Irish aren't scared of atmosphere at a rugby ground.

Scared of a world class referee though.

Barnes is probably the worst ref in the history of the professional game. You are lucky as an English fan that you never have to sit through his bizarre refereeing.

Other than when he sent off my club's captain in the premiership final, sin binning our player for being punched, doesn't give an obvious forward pass in our most important game this season? etc

and yet you call him world class? You seem to be contradicting yourself. He definitely isnt world class given he is subject to more controversy that any other ref apart from possibly Steve Walsh in the modern game. Cant wait till he retires.

He is a very good Ref 'on his day'.

What day was that lol.

Ireland have agreed to close the roof. Surprised, I would have thought it would be to our advantage to leave it open.

If he was Welsh everyone would agree he is the 2nd best Ref........in the world.