Jeff chat

As LT has retired his excellent pen I thought it would be useful to have a running thread to discuss the Jeff games/ rounds. Entirely self-serving of course given my undoubted preference of club over country

Glaws v Quins should be a goodecent game today. The weather should be conducive for running rugby. Glaws have a strong side out, which means we'll lose...

Glaws
15. Tom Marshall; 14. Charlie Sharples, 13. Matt Scott, 12. Billy Twelvetrees, 11. David Halaifonua; 10. Billy Burns, 9. Willi Heinz (capt); 1. Yann Thomas, 2. Richard Hibbard, 3. John Afoa; 4. Mariano Galarza, 5. Jeremy Thrush; 6. Lewis Ludlow, 7. Jacob Rowan, 8. Ben Morgan

Replacements:

16. Motu Matu'u, 17. Josh Hohneck, 18. Paul Doran-Jones, 19. Tom Savage, 20. Sione Kalamafoni, 21. Callum Braley, 22. James Hook, 23. Henry Trinder


Quins
15. Ross Chisholm
14. Marland Yarde
13. Joe Marchant
12. Matt Hopper
11. Tim Visser
10. Tim Swiel
9. Charlie Mulchrone

1. Mark Lambert
2. Joe Gray
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. George Merrick
5. Charlie Matthews
6. James Chisholm
7. Dave Ward (C)
8. Mat Luamanu

16. Rob Buchanan
17. Owen Evans
18. Matt Shields
19. Stan South
20. George Naoupu
21. Luc Jones
22. James Lang
23. Alofa Alofa

Bath: T Homer; Rokoduguni, Clark, Tapuai, Watson; Hastings, Cook; Catt, Batty, Lahiff, Charteris, Ewels (capt), Ellis, Denton, Faletau.

Replacements: Van Vuuren, Obano, Palma-Newport, Stooke, Mercer, W Homer, Jennings, Phillips.


Wasps: Beale; Wade, Leiua, Gopperth, Le Roux; Cipriani, Simpson; Mullan (capt), Taylor, Cooper-Woolley, Symons, Gaskell, Johnson, Young, Rieder.

Replacements: Festuccia, McIntyre, Moore, Rowlands, Willis, Robson, Armitage, Bassett.

Enjoying Bath vs Wasps.

Wasps might come to regret not making more of their first half possession.

Rugby Fan wrote:Enjoying Bath vs Wasps.

Wasps might come to regret not making more of their first half possession.

I saw the last 20 minutes of the 1st half and they butchered 2 try's.

Gaskell off injured and Goppeth is struggling - doubt he'll be out for the 2nd half.

I officially hate being a Glaws supporter! How can we keep throwing away leads?! The season is over for us, I now need to wish away the next 6 months before the misplaced hope comes back

Am I going over the top when I say that was a disgrace from Glos? 12 points up so decide to concede 15 with 10 mins to go, seen it all too often this season - complete lack of mental strength and game management. What needs to change?

Starting to lose patience and interest at a rate of knots.

It is hard wathcing isn't it ER? I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's probably a culmination of poor coaching, lack of fitness, lack of strength in depth and lack of quality in key decision making roles. The sooner Altrad comes in the better, there is a lot of dead wood that needs to go. Nevertheless I've renewed my season ticket, go figure!

HongKongCherry wrote:It is hard wathcing isn't it ER? I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's probably a culmination of poor coaching, lack of fitness, lack of strength in depth and lack of quality in key decision making roles. The sooner Altrad comes in the better, there is a lot of dead wood that needs to go. Nevertheless I've renewed my season ticket, go figure!

It's exactly all of those things and that's what makes it so hard to address, I suppose. I can accept that occasionally these things happen against the big teams but Quins are hardly firing on all cylinders this season and we just seem to do it all the time against everyone! Astounded we managed to hold on and beat Sarries.

What's the latest on Altrad? I've seen that it's on, it's off, it's back on. Stopped paying attention to that as well!

Fisher has resigned. I don't think he's to blame, but maybe this will galvanise the team.

No firm news on Altrad, but it's expected he'll purchase up to 50% in the near future.

kingelderfield wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Enjoying Bath vs Wasps.

Wasps might come to regret not making more of their first half possession.

I saw the last 20 minutes of the 1st half and they butchered 2 try's.

Gaskell off injured and Goppeth is struggling - doubt he'll be out for the 2nd half.

Comfortable win in the end - should really have secured the Bp but probably would have taken that before the game. Bath struggling with numerous injuries.
I thought our no 8 Alex Reider deserved mom personally.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Enjoying Bath vs Wasps.

Wasps might come to regret not making more of their first half possession.

I saw the last 20 minutes of the 1st half and they butchered 2 try's.

Gaskell off injured and Goppeth is struggling - doubt he'll be out for the 2nd half.

Comfortable win in the end - should really have secured the Bp but probably would have taken that before the game. Bath struggling with numerous injuries.
I thought our no 8 Alex Reider deserved mom personally.

I'm just about to promote Cipriani for the Lions, however my point here is that I think it's really difficult to gauge Wasps form at present. My finger in the air observation suggests they're quite a way off top form and are actually looking a bit knackered (so will appreciate the week off).

Also it's difficult to know how they compare given the oppositions' have been indifferent, but most of all it's their style of play, their ball in hand running is a joy to watch and so I'm not surprised their looking tired (and injuries are beginning to intrude, 2 more yesterday, though this could be just the normal wear and tear). There were times in the first half when the ball was in play for minutes at a time.  

My expectation is that if they all stay fit and the 3 forwards plus Daly return relatively fresh then the double is still the expectation, but its all about the reintegration and so the next performance against Worcester is crucial prior to Dublin where it will all be about the forwards as to who comes out on top.

As to Reider, I agree and would add that Dai et al have been brilliant in understanding the need for dynamic back row players - when you think that Smith Hughes and Haskell have been no where to be seen it makes you realise what has been achieved.

kingelderfield wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Enjoying Bath vs Wasps.

Wasps might come to regret not making more of their first half possession.

I saw the last 20 minutes of the 1st half and they butchered 2 try's.

Gaskell off injured and Goppeth is struggling - doubt he'll be out for the 2nd half.

Comfortable win in the end - should really have secured the Bp but probably would have taken that before the game. Bath struggling with numerous injuries.
I thought our no 8 Alex Reider deserved mom personally.

I'm just about to promote Cipriani for the Lions, however my point here is that I think it's really difficult to gauge Wasps form at present. My finger in the air observation suggests they're quite a way off top form and are actually looking a bit knackered (so will appreciate the week off).

Also it's difficult to know how they compare given the oppositions' have been indifferent, but most of all it's their style of play, their ball in hand running is a joy to watch and so I'm not surprised their looking tired (and injuries are beginning to intrude, 2 more yesterday, though this could be just the normal wear and tear). There were times in the first half when the ball was in play for minutes at a time.  

My expectation is that if they all stay fit and the 3 forwards plus Daly return relatively fresh then the double is still the expectation, but its all about the reintegration and so the next performance against Worcester is crucial prior to Dublin where it will all be about the forwards as to who comes out on top.

As to Reider, I agree and would add that Dai et al have been brilliant in understanding the need for dynamic back row players - when you think that Smith Hughes and Haskell have been no where to be seen it makes you realise what has been achieved.

Yep agree with all of that. Gaskell I think just suffered a knock to his calf and should be ok and Myall is back soon to.

18/6 to Saracens at the half.

Very physical contest with limited guile. Hamilton and Welch are looking to rip each others heads off given the chance and the niggle has definitely got to the Sarries line out as they've messed up the last 3.

Sarries overall have more nous and reflect the detailed coaching of McCall and others. Still the Falcons 9 managed to place the ball an inch short when he was well able to score and Tait fell on his backside when in another promising position.

The very good news is the both Vunipola boys are looking very good with no ill effects, though Mako has an excellent wheeze were he keeps replacing his contact lenses and everyone recovers their oxygen levels. SERIOUSLY the officials have to get wise to this. If a players genuinely requires a contact then they go to the side or there needs to be provision as per the blood replacement for another prop or whoever to temporarily substitute them. Canny old Sarries cheating I mean pushing the laws to the their limit. Very Venter or even Richards eske wouldn't you say?

The Sarries 10 as an ex Wasp is quite a talented, just a shame the backline only met 5 minutes before the kick off.

Sarries in control but Keys is having another awful game, why do we keep getting him?

Bristol are shooting themselves in the foot, making stupid errors and Worcester are lapping it up. This will be a bonus point win for Worcester if Bristol can't calm down

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Bristol are shooting themselves in the foot, making stupid errors and Worcester are lapping it up. This will be a bonus point win for Worcester if Bristol can't calm down

He says, just before Bristol get over for a try. Game on now

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Sarries in control but Keys is having another awful game, why do we keep getting him?

He is a very naive young man. To easily influenced and trusting of others.

There must be an argument to drop Barrett for Farrell after the internationals.

Well thats the bonus point for Worcester. Bristol are mince!

2 late tries for Falcons made 27/35 to Sorries, with a 4 minute passage of play to end the game with Goneva offloading in a last ditch tackle to Hartley's younger brother to kick out over the dead ball.

Shame Newcastle couldn't bring earlier. Their starting (Somoan?) 9 is a wonderful running back but unfortunately possess a woeful pass from the base.

Didn't really deserve that much really, it wasn't a great showing from us. Keys stopped us getting any momentum in the 1st half and Takulua really should have scored the try that would bring us close.

Sarries defence was great for most of the game but we certainly took them apart at times.

The one silver lining of this weekend is that Val Rapava-Ruskin is joining us next year! Bristol really were poor and evenot though they're likely to pick up a win against Glaws you can't see them staying up now.

HongKongCherry wrote:The one silver lining of this weekend is that Val Rapava-Ruskin is joining us next year! Bristol really were poor and evenot though they're likely to pick up a win against Glaws you can't see them staying up now.

That does seem to be the end for Bristol. I wonder if Will Hurrell fancies returning to Tigers rather than going back to the Championship next season. Surely Bristol will need to cut a few loose before they go down. Henson is a sick note he'd fit in well with the rest of our squad. 

I was surprised Bristol rolled over quite so readily today. They'll be a lot of work for the new coaching set up in the summer.

Like wise Sam I was surprised by their lack of physicality. On paper their pack looked strong, especially the back 5, but they ended up being powder puff. At least they won't have the playoffs to worry about!

HongKongCherry wrote:Like wise Sam I was surprised by their lack of physicality. On paper their pack looked strong, especially the back 5, but they ended up being powder puff. At least they won't have the playoffs to worry about!

They sure can buy their way to promotion again.

Just me who thought that Varndell was awful? Got bundled into touch 3-4 times. Looks to have lost of his pace.

Sure he scored an intercept but only just.

Did you see the Falcons game BS? Robinson had Itoje in his pocket (again) for the full 80mins

beshocked wrote:Just me who thought that Varndell was awful? Got bundled into touch 3-4 times. Looks to have lost of his pace.

Sure he scored an intercept but only just.

He was out gassed by Hougaard a few times as well

Yep Fluxy I noticed that too. Hougaard played really well though.

Sgt Pooly, funny... no I didn't. You have a funny definition of being in one's pocket, a game of rugby is 80 minutes +.

Not by the clock it isnt BS

Sgt Poorly it is if the ball stays in play and there is no knock on. I still remember the AP final where Leicester kept the ball for a stupid amount of time after 80 minutes. Must have been something like 87 minutes.

Hougaard seems to be the catalyst for Worcester. They are a completely different animal when he is on form (same last season).
Crane was the 'off form' player for me....dropped off a lot of tackles and seemed out of position a number of times. 2 things stick out - it was Crane who Hougaaard stepped for his try off the back of the lineout. And it was Crane who was physically dominated 5m out of from the line for another try.

He wasn't the only one at fault, but he stood out for me as below norm.

Agree Crane was poor, competing with Varndell for worst player on the pitch.

Tigers still on the look out for a good no 8. Think they must regret losing Waldrom who again was very busy.

Waldrom might not have been good enough for England but he's a very valuable no 8 at club level.

beshocked wrote:Agree Crane was poor, competing with Varndell for worst player on the pitch.

Tigers still on the look out for a good no 8. Think they must regret losing Waldrom who again was very busy.

Waldrom might not have been good enough for England but he's a very valuable no 8 at club level.

Waldrom didn't fit with how Leicester were playing. He wasn't first choice and he was on a substantial wage. Exeter play to his strengths and cover for his weaknesses which is why he is thriving down there. I don't regret letting him go but I do regret many other aspects surrounding our recruitment and succession planning.

How were Leicester playing? Unfortunately all I've seen from Leicester in the last 2-3 years is a gradual decline.

I've said it for some time, Leicester need to recruit a good no 8.

Wasn't first choice because you picked the wonderful Crane... a player I've not really rated for some time.

Another bizarre point about Leicester vs Exeter was leaving too many of your better players on the bench.

Burns at 9 with the game already lost was ridiculous.

Genge and Williams are too I was absolutely baffled that you didn't start.

beshocked wrote:How were Leicester playing? Unfortunately all I've seen from Leicester in the last 2-3 years is a gradual decline.

I've said it for some time, Leicester need to recruit a good no 8.

Wasn't first choice because you picked the wonderful Crane... a player I've not really rated for some time.

Another bizarre point about Leicester vs Exeter was leaving too many of your better players on the bench.

Burns at 9 with the game already lost was ridiculous.

Genge and Williams are too I was absolutely baffled that you didn't start.

Oh how I'd like to argue with you about our decline. Sadly it's all to evident. There's been some brief showings of promise but not enough.

I will defend the selection of some of the players vs Chiefs. Remember Genge and Williams had been away with England all week. Rizzo who started instead of Genge is an experienced international and scored the first try, Croft was easily one of our best players and would not have been replaced if I'd have been choosing (Fitzgerald the man who got schooled in the lineout by Parling would have gone). Chiefs tactically out thought us and although we had them early doors just dim thinking (kicking from behind a ruck = schoolboy) and a predictable direct attack made it easy for Chiefs.

Burns played 9 because we had no option. The appalling Kitto was replaced by Harrison who was injured at a ruck. Couldn't bring Kitto back on so someone had to play there and Burns was best equipped.

Fair points.

I realise why Burns was at 9, I just don't know why the woeful Williams wasn't taken off sooner. Would have started Burns.

Fair enough, I don't think Croft was that effective but you are entitled to your opinion.

beshocked wrote:Fair points.

I realise why Burns was at 9, I just don't know why the woeful Williams wasn't taken off sooner. Would have started Burns.

Fair enough, I don't think Croft was that effective but you are entitled to your opinion.

Probably a good thing he wasn't otherwise we'd have had to either put a worse option at 9 or Burns at 9 and have no flyhalf. In theory the idea of Williams massive boot kicking us into position on a cold and wet night was a good one. The issue was we disappeared shortly after the charge down (moronic piece of play all over, why the 9 didn't clear from the base and why Williams stood directly behind). By the second half where he remembered how to tackle the Chiefs had used those 20 mins, including the yellow card, to see us off. 

It just seemed from the stands that Croft was getting around and constantly making a nuisance of himself. Had we had a competent lineout leader then I'm sure Croft would have been even more effective as we'd have used him to attack the Chiefs lineout instead of letting them win every lineout and set up rolling mauls.

A return to proper rugby for one weekend only...

The games are
Bris v Glaws
Chiefs v Sale
Quins v Falcons
Saints v Tigers
Wasps v Wuss
Sarries v Bath

Home wins across the board

HongKongCherry wrote:A return to proper rugby for one weekend only...

The games are
Bris v Glaws
Chiefs v Sale
Quins v Falcons
Saints v Tigers
Wasps v Wuss
Sarries v Bath

Home wins across the board

Hope so

Glaws, Tigers and Falcons to upset the home wins prediction. 

Hopefully a Tigers team with momentum, empassioned by a Midlands derby and desperate to send off the popular Mauger on a high note will rout Saints.

Please for the love of god let Quins get a win.

Can't see it personally but we can hope

Ok I'm being a bit OTT, we should beat Falcons at home, and in an ideal world we should get a BP.

Anyone want to post the league rankings? Would be nice to know if 5 points matters that much now.

I'd expect Quins to get the win Yappy, especially at home. I think it'll be a higher scorer though, 30+ v 20+.

Would a win for tigers and loss for Bath put us into the top 4?

Bath are only a point ahead so yes. Tigers have a better "points for" record so would lokely go above with a bonus point if results are the same.


That said it's still very much a top 3 and then another 3 clubs trying to pretend they are in the same competition.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'd expect Quins to get the win Yappy, especially at home. I think it'll be a higher scorer though, 30+ v 20+.

That's kind of what I expect, I think it'll be a high scorer but the question is will we concede as many as we score. Falcons have shown this season that they can score try's now so our defense will need to improve.

Bris
15. Jason Woodward; 14. Jack Wallace, 13. Will Hurrell, 12. Tusi Pisi, 11. David Lemi; 10. Billy Searle, 9. Alby Mathewson; 1. Ryan Bevington, 2. Marc Jones (c), 3. Gaston Cortes, 4. James Phillips, 5. Mark Sorenson, 6. Sam Jeffries, 7. Jack Lam, 8. Mitch Eadie.

Replacements: 16. Max Crumpton, 17. Jack O’Connell, 18. Jamal Ford-Robinson, 19. Jordan Crane, 20. Nick Fenton-Wells, 21. Rhodri Williams, 22. Jack Tovey, 23. Luke Arscot

Glaws
15. Tom Marshall; 14. Jonny May, 13. Henry Trinder, 12. Andy Symons, 11. David Halaifonua; 10. Billy Burns, 9. Willi Heinz (capt); 1. Paddy McAllister, 2. Richard Hibbard, 3. Josh Hohneck; 4. Tom Savage, 5. Jeremy Thrush; 6. Sione Kalamafoni, 7. Jacob Rowan, 8. Ben Morgan

Replacements: 16. Motu Matu'u, 17. Yann Thomas, 18. Paul Doran-Jones, 19. Tom Denton, 20. Lewis Ludlow, 21. Callum Braley, 22. Billy Twelvetrees, 23. Charlie Sharples


If Bris are to stay up they must win this game. fortunately they're playing Glaws at a time when we're in utter turmoil! My heart says Glaws by 7, but my head says Bris by 3...